FM 14: Sliders gone, thoughts?

[Winto]

Sliders may not represent the reality of football tactics, but in reality managers get days of preparation with the team to explain in detail just how wide or high up the pitch the team need to be.

While shouting from the touchline "play wider" might suffice, I think there needs to be a very specific way to set these kinds of levels pre-match.

I haven't played the beta yet, so don't know how it works. Sliders may not be ideal, but they were one way to replicate the days of preparation (or months if you count pre-season) real life managers get with their team.

Think of the hours spent on the training ground. That needs to be represented some how.

[jack23]

I don't get what you mean. People who like the change (I, for example) say it because it's their own independent opinion, not because they are in any manner influenced by anybody. Also I don't really believe there has been a "twist" process in which people are originally against it and now for it. If the general people were so suggestible then it would be terrible.

I think he means that often the most vocal response to changes in these games is the minority that hate the changes, which warps perceptions of how people are actually reacting to the change. The silent majority that are in favour tend to be just that - silent

[jack23]

Sliders may not represent the reality of football tactics, but in reality managers get days of preparation with the team to explain in detail just how wide or high up the pitch the team need to be.

While shouting from the touchline "play wider" might suffice, I think there needs to be a very specific way to set these kinds of levels pre-match.

I haven't played the beta yet, so don't know how it works. Sliders may not be ideal, but they were one way to replicate the days of preparation (or months if you count pre-season) real life managers get with their team.

Think of the hours spent on the training ground. That needs to be represented some how.

You can preset those instructions in your tactics window outside of matches - so setting 'play wider' when you're creating your tactic is equivalent to the old way of a few clicks on the width slider. And I'm assuming changing instructions will affect the tactic familiarity in the same way as altering the sliders used to.

[miguelalves]

Not sure if this way is better than sliders. Several people were able to understand the sliders and how managing it would affect the team performance. Moreover, with this system it is harder to understand what are the default instructions of a player or, for example, and maybe this is a stupid question.... how do I remove crossing from a player ??? There are several options for crossing but what if I do not want an inside forward to cross ???

[markyosullivan]

There's no option on the poll which truly explains how I feel. Yes on one hand, less sliders might be good for those who don't like to fine tweak their tactics but on the other hand there may be some tactical experts who play FM and want to tweak the tactics so that their team plays exactly the way he/she wants.

[YKW]

Sliders may not represent the reality of football tactics, but in reality managers get days of preparation with the team to explain in detail just how wide or high up the pitch the team need to be.

While shouting from the touchline "play wider" might suffice, I think there needs to be a very specific way to set these kinds of levels pre-match.

I haven't played the beta yet, so don't know how it works. Sliders may not be ideal, but they were one way to replicate the days of preparation (or months if you count pre-season) real life managers get with their team.

Think of the hours spent on the training ground. That needs to be represented some how.

This x1000. Perfectly sums up my feelings. I wrote a huge thread on training, and how it is ridiculously understated in the game compared to RL. Not to say my idea was good, but the problem is very much there.

[miguelalves]

As I wrote at the tactic section: I am aware that player roles must have logic and coherence and I believe SI thought to achieve this without the sliders, but it seems wrong that I as manager not being able to customize the instructions as I think they would be better for my players.

[HUNT3R]

As I wrote at the tactic section: I am aware that player roles must have logic and coherence and I believe SI thought to achieve this without the sliders, but it seems wrong that I as manager not being able to customize the instructions as I think they would be better for my players.

But you can customize the instructions? What instructions do you want to change that you feel you can't?

[Sussex Hammer]

Haven't looked at the Beta so no idea how the new tactics system works but without the sliders how exactly is this system coded? By that I mean even the TC was based on sliders in FM13 so I am intrigued to see how the design allows players to do things the way the sliders allowed. I know that there are now "roles" but how are those roles programmed, are the sliders still there in the background and used by the designer but not accessible to us?

I was also thinking about tactical systems and wondered for future possibilities if you could programme a way of playing midweek in training. Eg picking a formation and the players you intend to play and issuing instructions via a sort of training team talk. For instance asking an Andreos Townsend to run at players when he gets the chance or asking an Andy Carroll to hold the ball up and lay off easy passes or saying to Michael Carrick to just sit in front of the centre backs and shield the defence or allowing Wayne Rooney to just do his own thing - that sort of thing. In a nutshell being able to issue PPM's in a team talk top some extent. Then on a match day you could fine tune that tactic you have saved for that particular match by the option of in depth team talks where you issue a set of instructions to a particular player such as the options above as there obviously will be times when you cannot pick the same 11 as you would have hoped to on a Wednesday! Basically setting your instructions verbally rather than use of sliders.

This I believe would help greatly because in previous incarnations the maximum of 3 tactics to gel over time is not always enough. A training option to work on a tactic and set up during the week would help.

[miguelalves]

But you can customize the instructions? What instructions do you want to change that you feel you can't?

As I said and this is just an example: I cannot remove crossing from Inside Forwards, I can only choose between some types of crossing.

[evandro]

It's nonsense to compare reality and the game!!! The Sliders were great for this game. I think the new system is good for people who don't understand FM and football. Hardcore players like sliders!

[shaunwwfc]

ME cheaters like sliders.

Expect all the previous "gods" (who I wont mention) to suddenly vanish.

The real experts on here have been wwfan, Cleon, tomtuck etc. This will be evident over the next 12 months and people will appreciate there work/help even more now.

[themadsheep2001]

It's nonsense to compare reality and the game!!! The Sliders were great for this game. I think the new system is good for people who don't understand FM and football. Hardcore players like sliders!

Well, no, thats a patently false statement tbh.

[HUNT3R]

As I said and this is just an example: I cannot remove crossing from Inside Forwards, I can only choose between some types of crossing.

Have you brought the issue up in the official thread? To me, you should be able to tell a player not to cross the ball.

[miguelalves]

Have you brought the issue up in the official thread? To me, you should be able to tell a player not to cross the ball.

Well, in this new system you are not able to tell players not to cross.

[HUNT3R]

Well, in this new system you are not able to tell players not to cross.

That's my point. I agree, you SHOULD be able to. If the issue is raised and others/SI agree, they could add that instruction in the future.

[miguelalves]

That's my point. I agree, you SHOULD be able to. If the issue is raised and others/SI agree, they could add that instruction in the future.

Well, as far as the debate is going at the tactical section... they won't. And they are telling us stop moaning, deal with it!!! And as for the instructions, it is about time to have shouts that would affect moral and composure.

[YKW]

I was also thinking about tactical systems and wondered for future possibilities if you could programme a way of playing midweek in training. Eg picking a formation and the players you intend to play and issuing instructions via a sort of training team talk. For instance asking an Andreos Townsend to run at players when he gets the chance or asking an Andy Carroll to hold the ball up and lay off easy passes or saying to Michael Carrick to just sit in front of the centre backs and shield the defence or allowing Wayne Rooney to just do his own thing - that sort of thing. In a nutshell being able to issue PPM's in a team talk top some extent. Then on a match day you could fine tune that tactic you have saved for that particular match by the option of in depth team talks where you issue a set of instructions to a particular player such as the options above as there obviously will be times when you cannot pick the same 11 as you would have hoped to on a Wednesday! Basically setting your instructions verbally rather than use of sliders.

I like this idea.

[El_Capone]

In the FM 2013 i put low mentality and pu no run to underline and the strikers come back to help defense, will stayed back of line of the ball, so in the FM 2014 how i put the strikers going to help to defense?

[Da_Funk]

ME cheaters like sliders.

Expect all the previous "gods" (who I wont mention) to suddenly vanish.

The real experts on here have been wwfan, Cleon, tomtuck etc. This will be evident over the next 12 months and people will appreciate there work/help even more now.

This looks like:

- if you like sliders you're a ME cheater

- if you don't, you're a real expert

It isn't.

[Kriss]

Yes, feelings running a little strong on both sides it seems, bit pointless really because they are gone and that's it.

[Shakes]

I think the removal of sliders is a step in the right direction even if there are some quirks with it and some strange decisions (like removing the targetman/playmaker options), but the new roles need better documentation. Then again so did the old sliders and TC interfaces. I know SI has at times tried to sell being vague as a feature ("look, we're so good to you letting you work it out for yourself and not spoiling the mystery!"), but to me that's ******* on me and telling me it's raining.

[mojojojo101]

I'm kind of annoyed that it looks like I won't be able to re-create my ludicrously good tactic from FM13 (as it had a defender with RFD/RWB set to sometimes over rarely) but in all honesty I haven't had a proper play with the new system yet so I can't say that's not definitely true.

At the moment I'm a bit lost with the shouts, struggling a bit to apply them to different situations and which do what exactly but that's something I'll pick up relatively quickly after I get a good save going I reckon. All in all I'm pretty positive about the new system as a whole.

[SmurfDude]

It's nonsense to compare reality and the game!!! The Sliders were great for this game. I think the new system is good for people who don't understand FM and football. Hardcore players like sliders!

Statements like this really irritate me. I understand football just fine, however I don't have any intention of reading a 50 page tactical theories framework (or whatever it was called) to understand how I should be settings a dozen sliders to work in perfect harmony. That isn't fun, it isn't hardcore, its just tedious and unnecessary nonsense that only serves to frustrate and over complicate the process of setting up how I was my team to play. The new system is clear instructions spoken in plain English that anyone can understand, which is exactly how tactics should be implemented. It doesn't suddenly mean I'm going to become a tactical expert, but at least now I can come up with an idea and using simple instructions I can intuitively implement it without messing about increasing silly sliders by a notch or two.

[wwfan]

Reading one. Try bloody writing one!!!

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Statements like this really irritate me. I understand football just fine, however I don't have any intention of reading a 50 page tactical theories framework (or whatever it was called) to understand how I should be settings a dozen sliders to work in perfect harmony. That isn't fun, it isn't hardcore, its just tedious and unnecessary nonsense that only serves to frustrate and over complicate the process of setting up how I was my team to play. The new system is clear instructions spoken in plain English that anyone can understand, which is exactly how tactics should be implemented. It doesn't suddenly mean I'm going to become a tactical expert, but at least now I can come up with an idea and using simple instructions I can intuitively implement it without messing about increasing silly sliders by a notch or two.

Brilliant post, could not agree more.

Perhaps now wwfan can enjoy playing the game for the fist time in 7 years, instead of writing theories about it!

The quote below that I made, as far as I can tell reading between the lines of Officially stated information, covers why sliders are no more. Can someone in the know clarify if I am correct please?

"The point is I suspect that SI can make much better ME's much quicker and much easier if they are working with the manageable though still vastly numerous shout / instruction combinations. To work with sliders would be to make the game less stable / readily accessible to everyone. "

[wwfan]

To answer your question, it is better to work with concepts than tools.

[ShirazS]

Statements like this really irritate me. I understand football just fine, however I don't have any intention of reading a 50 page tactical theories framework (or whatever it was called) to understand how I should be settings a dozen sliders to work in perfect harmony. That isn't fun, it isn't hardcore, its just tedious and unnecessary nonsense that only serves to frustrate and over complicate the process of setting up how I was my team to play. The new system is clear instructions spoken in plain English that anyone can understand, which is exactly how tactics should be implemented. It doesn't suddenly mean I'm going to become a tactical expert, but at least now I can come up with an idea and using simple instructions I can intuitively implement it without messing about increasing silly sliders by a notch or two.

Agree 100% as well. Sliders provided too much confusion to the casual gamer and created too much of a divide between real-life football concepts and FM. I prefer the new system so much more.

[doucong]

This post some how because wether numerical expressing is realistic in real life.

No manager decides whether to buy a player based on 1-20 attributes either though.

Well, many scout agents do use very similar method to express/report players ability. The image attched is a blank player report in real life of a Portugal agent. You can see they basicaly use 1-10 rating.

Some people are argue no manager will use 14 out of 20 width in real life tactic. But as far as I know, some manager do use similar logic as well. e.g. the grass mowed in boxes and manager use them as reference.

I agree with some people in above said, the game is not mean to be a hardcore simulator, it is a game, and it should be easy to play with. I agree to remove the silders.

What I dislike for numerical players attribute is, it is always so accurate. I am thinking how about the scout reports rating be ±5,±8,±10 of the accurate rating in database, and the higher reputation of the scout, the more accurate he reports. e.g. if a player I am very interested of have finish 15, and I send three scouts for him, they might report 11/15/16, then it will be reasonable for me to think his finish is about 14~16. Of course, physical raing should be easier to report accurately, then technical, then mental, and the longer you sent the scout(watch for more mathces), the more accurate the report is.

For the PA part, the scout should behave more elastic. E.g. for a player of age 16 with CA 50 and PA 180, scout reports should be in range of 1 star (turn out to be CA 70 in future) to 5 star (turn out to be 170+ super star) base on their experiences/reputations/work with young/luck...Also I feel the ramdom generate player should more often come with PPMs to express their personality, and let the manager have better control for kids to make them into the player we want.

[RTHerringbone]

That isn't an actual professional scout report though, I can't even tell what this organisation does:

http://www.en.proeleven.pt/proeleven/aboutus/

It's nonsense to compare reality and the game!!! The Sliders were great for this game. I think the new system is good for people who don't understand FM and football. Hardcore players like sliders!

This is misplaced, unsubstantiated elitism.

[doucong]

That isn't an actual professional scout report though, I can't even tell what this organisation does:

http://www.en.proeleven.pt/proeleven/aboutus/

This is misplaced, unsubstantiated elitism.

Upload with the wrong picture, here it is.

[RTHerringbone]

If the FM Scout reports can evolve their descriptions to that sort of level (and I can only imagine it would be extremely hard to do so), then we could do away with attributes in my opinion.

[HUNT3R]

If the FM Scout reports can evolve their descriptions to that sort of level (and I can only imagine it would be extremely hard to do so), then we could do away with attributes in my opinion.

I think it should be quite possible in the same way the TC interprets the sliders, to have a system "on top" of the 1-20 attributes we see now. Would be easy to divide the right attributes into the suitable category and produce a number from 1-5.

Even the wording is possible, but will take a little bit of doing to get right. It would work similar to the Biography page. Pre-written sentences that will get automatically selected depending on a player's attributes.

[RTHerringbone]

I think it should be quite possible in the same way the TC interprets the sliders, to have a system "on top" of the 1-20 attributes we see now. Would be easy to divide the right attributes into the suitable category and produce a number from 1-5.

Even the wording is possible, but will take a little bit of doing to get right. It would work similar to the Biography page. Pre-written sentences that will get automatically selected depending on a player's attributes.

Yeah, this would be great.

The game is heading in a more conceptual direction, and it just "feels" right to have a scout report which features no (or heavily aggregated) numeric attributes, and places a dependency on textual descriptions to understand how a player may fit a certain Role.

[OlivierL]

This post some how because wether numerical expressing is realistic in real life.

Well, many scout agents do use very similar method to express/report players ability. The image attched is a blank player report in real life of a Portugal agent. You can see they basicaly use 1-10 rating.

Some people are argue no manager will use 14 out of 20 width in real life tactic. But as far as I know, some manager do use similar logic as well. e.g. the grass mowed in boxes and manager use them as reference.

I agree with some people in above said, the game is not mean to be a hardcore simulator, it is a game, and it should be easy to play with. I agree to remove the silders.

What I dislike for numerical players attribute is, it is always so accurate. I am thinking how about the scout reports rating be ±5,±8,±10 of the accurate rating in database, and the higher reputation of the scout, the more accurate he reports. e.g. if a player I am very interested of have finish 15, and I send three scouts for him, they might report 11/15/16, then it will be reasonable for me to think his finish is about 14~16. Of course, physical raing should be easier to report accurately, then technical, then mental, and the longer you sent the scout(watch for more mathces), the more accurate the report is.

For the PA part, the scout should behave more elastic. E.g. for a player of age 16 with CA 50 and PA 180, scout reports should be in range of 1 star (turn out to be CA 70 in future) to 5 star (turn out to be 170+ super star) base on their experiences/reputations/work with young/luck...Also I feel the ramdom generate player should more often come with PPMs to express their personality, and let the manager have better control for kids to make them into the player we want.

In Belgium i/we use a simaler document but we prefer to give remarks/comments for each attribute (youth scouting) and don't care to much about the 1-10 points.

[RTHerringbone]

In Belgium i/we use a simaler document but we prefer to give remarks/comments for each attribute (youth scouting) and don't care to much about the 1-10 points.

Are you a scout?

If so, what direction would you like to see FM scout reports head in?

[HaydarAli]

Hi, first of all sorry for my English, I'll try my best ;-).

I'm little bit worried that we will be limited with the removal of the sliders.

Let me explain with an example: Long Distance Shoots.

In the older versions of FM when we click on "Shoot less often" every player has his slider on "rarely" for a long distance shoot. But if you wanted that one player has this instruction on "normal" and an other one on "often" you could do it in the individual instructions with the sliders for the 2 players.

Now, how do we translate this in FM14?

I think that we must first of all chose in the team instructions "Shoots less often" and than we go to the 2 players instruction to ask them to shoot more often on goal.

But the only options we have for them is "shoot more often" without the frequencies of shots... How can we adjust the frequencies of the shoots on normal for one player and often for the other player?

I think that the sliders gaves us a better vision of how the players behave on the pitch. Now, we have only the definition of each role that gives us an idea on his role on the pitch. With the sliders we could see the frequencies of the instructions.

The new tactic system is maybe more realistic and user friendly but I think that it has its limits.

I'm a little afraid that year after year, FM is getting more and more a Casual Game targeted at a mass audience of gamers (For example, the introduction of FM Classic the year before.)

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

Ali

[wwfan]

Work Ball into Box reduces long shots across the team.

[HaydarAli]

First of all, I would like to precise that I'm not for the return of sliders in the FM series. But...

The idea of the tactic system based on the roles in FM14 is very good in my opinion but it does not gives us a detailled overview of the behavior of each player on the pitch for a particular role/tactic/mentality/fluidity.

The only thing we know are the little definitions of thoses roles/tactics/mentalities/fluidities and the Shouts.

Where is the detailled overview of the default instructions for each role in FM14?

The sliders, instead, shows us a more detailled overview of the default instructions for each role/tactic/mentality/fluidity.

If you changed, for example, team instructions this was automatically reflected on the roles, or in other words, on the individual instructions.

Therefore we just needed to check the sliders for each player to have this detailled overview of their way to play on the pitch.

This lack of not detailled overview gives a sense of insecurity.

In Real Life, even if the managers don't use sliders, they know exactly what they told to each player about what to do or not to do on the pitch, and this for ALL THE ASPECTS of the game (mentality, creativity, pass, cross, roam from position, etc.)

Then, if the players applies or not the instructions that is an other debate :-).

FM14 is more User Friendly, what I appreciate much, but if FM should become a Casual Game to be more User Friendly, I'm not buying it.

That gaves us an impression that tactic creation IRL is simple:

"Hi guys, today we will use a 4-4-2 tactic with an offensif mentality and fluidity on rigid.

You there you'll be a false 9, you an advanced striker, you will be the keeper, logic you wear gloves... etc."

In case you have forgotten the definitions of the roles, here you can find a one-page book, learn it by heart it is only 5 sentences for each role...Nothing fancy though ;-). There aren't enough details about the roles, but you can check on your personal profil wich characteristic is important for each role ... :-p

By the way, before I forget, you there the offensif midfielder, i will give you an exception: shoot less often because, huh!? Don't do it, ok!?"

It seems to be to simplistic even if the idea of the new tactic system is good.

Ali

[Viggo Vickers]

Personally I am a little disappointed with the change, though I can understand what they are attempting to do, yet I disagree with it.

With the sliders gone, as a user, I feel like I have lost some degree of control over the team. The slider's had their faults, but tweaking the settings to perfection helped set me apart from various other users, at times come up with unexpected results, and an interesting aspect to experiment with. The new direction with the evolved 'shouts' is a step back in depth, dumbed down if you will. To me, it's the difference of a Harry Redknapp telling his players a few basic concepts he wants the team to play and leaving them to it, compared to a Andre Villas-Boas giving his players a 4 page laminated document on what he wants the team to do. I want to be AVB.

Don't get me wrong. The shouts were initially a good addition, making mid-match changes smoothly and fluid, on the fly. Preferably I would have left the shouts as they were instead of pushing them to take over from the sliders. Though now I feel the tactics are something out of FMC, which is a portion of the game I don't play, which has now resulted in my tactics to be common and no longer unique.

Fundamentally, I've lost some control.

[Fredric Drum]

Not sure if this way is better than sliders. Several people were able to understand the sliders and how managing it would affect the team performance. Moreover, with this system it is harder to understand what are the default instructions of a player or, for example, and maybe this is a stupid question.... how do I remove crossing from a player ??? There are several options for crossing but what if I do not want an inside forward to cross ???

I guess that says it all ... many thousands of people play the game, and "several" people understand the sliders.

Even though at first I thought I'd lose detail in my instructions ... after thinking about it -- did I really understand what I was doing with my details in earlier versions? Or just clicking a bit here and there thinking "it will be good ... like so".

[QWERTYOP]

I would like to think the next step in the evolution in the new method will be an increased number of "shouts" or whatever it is they're called now.

I do feel the only downside to the new method is, as stated above, less control over your players.

[Sussex Hammer]

I would like to think the next step in the evolution in the new method will be an increased number of "shouts" or whatever it is they're called now.

I do feel the only downside to the new method is, as stated above, less control over your players.

I really do wonder if we are going too far down the micro management route and taking responsibility away from the players far too much. Does a manager instruct their players to do every mortal thing? Even Sam Allardyce make a bit of a joke yesterday about a player NOT playing as false number 9!! Do Managers really go through their line up by saying you are a libero, you are a regista, you are a false 9, you are a false 10 and so forth? Do players abilities and decisions matter anymore? I really think we are going far to far down the road of the Manager has to get every mortal thing right to win a game of football and surely that isn't the case IRL.

[Kriss]

I really do wonder if we are going too far down the micro management route and taking responsibility away from the players far too much. Does a manager instruct their players to do every mortal thing? Even Sam Allardyce make a bit of a joke yesterday about a player NOT playing as false number 9!! Do Managers really go through their line up by saying you are a libero, you are a regista, you are a false 9, you are a false 10 and so forth? Do players abilities and decisions matter anymore? I really think we are going far to far down the road of the Manager has to get every mortal thing right to win a game of football and surely that isn't the case IRL.

:confused: That's how it was with sliders, we're now moving away from that, you don't have to tell them every last detail, if you say nothing they'll do what comes naturally given their attributes, which is all it needs most of the time.

[Govnar1]

...What I dislike for numerical players attribute is, it is always so accurate.

unfortunately this forum is littered with people that believe real life scouts/coaches/manages have such knowledge of players.

I am thinking how about the scout reports rating be ±5,±8,±10 of the accurate rating in database, and the higher reputation of the scout, the more accurate he reports. e.g. if a player I am very interested of have finish 15, and I send three scouts for him, they might report 11/15/16, then it will be reasonable for me to think his finish is about 14~16. Of course, physical raing should be easier to report accurately, then technical, then mental, and the longer you sent the scout(watch for more mathces), the more accurate the report is.

This would be a giant step forward in my opinion, it could be a selectable option like current attribute masking. However chances of such system being introduced in the game are slim to zero unless resident guru like wwfan declares it necessary addition or Jonathan Wilson writes book on it. Sliders were optional and weren't totally unrealistic, scouting module with perfect insight in players abilities (within few days of sending scout regardless of his ability or obscures of target) on the other hand was always utterly unrealistic.

I would also like to see more detailed player stats (like stats on whoscored?) in the game and ability to search for players based on this as very detailed stats are readily available for top levels of football in real life.

For the PA part, the scout should behave more elastic. E.g. for a player of age 16 with CA 50 and PA 180, scout reports should be in range of 1 star (turn out to be CA 70 in future) to 5 star (turn out to be 170+ super star) base on their experiences/reputations/work with young/luck...

I agree, reported potential ability should be much less precise than it is currently. Even in sports like basketball which is analyzed if far greater detail than football (check 2013 NBA Draft Extravaganza, Sports Reference, Basketball Reference, The Nba Geek, SynergySports) it's very hard to determine potential (just as a fun illustration When Number One Picks Collide!).

[themadsheep2001]

I really do wonder if we are going too far down the micro management route and taking responsibility away from the players far too much. Does a manager instruct their players to do every mortal thing? Even Sam Allardyce make a bit of a joke yesterday about a player NOT playing as false number 9!! Do Managers really go through their line up by saying you are a libero, you are a regista, you are a false 9, you are a false 10 and so forth? Do players abilities and decisions matter anymore? I really think we are going far to far down the road of the Manager has to get every mortal thing right to win a game of football and surely that isn't the case IRL.

you've actually got it the other way round, as Kriss points out.

More to the point, two players might be playing False 9, for example, but they will play it quite differently based on their attributes. That's before you modify any instructions. Going by my experiences with withFM14, they certainly do matter.

[QWERTYOP]

I really do wonder if we are going too far down the micro management route and taking responsibility away from the players far too much. Does a manager instruct their players to do every mortal thing? Even Sam Allardyce make a bit of a joke yesterday about a player NOT playing as false number 9!! Do Managers really go through their line up by saying you are a libero, you are a regista, you are a false 9, you are a false 10 and so forth? Do players abilities and decisions matter anymore? I really think we are going far to far down the road of the Manager has to get every mortal thing right to win a game of football and surely that isn't the case IRL.

Yes, I think most managers do. Sometimes you want a player to perform a different role to what they normally do. Playing Lampard & Gerrard in the same England team for example. You'd give them different instructions then than if you played one of them next to an out and out stopper. So yes, players are told how to play.

I should clarify, I LOVE the new system. I think it's a massive leap forward. I'd just like to see it increased in years to come to include a few more options. Essentially, the fiddly sliders have been replaced by a method which more closely mirrors verbal communication, and so real life. And that's FANTASTIC! But by the same token, a manager can use verbal communication to give very specific instructions to players or his team if he so chooses. That's all.

LOVE the new system. The biggest leap since 3D matches IMO. I just think it can be taken a little further (not loads which would undo the point and simplicity of them). Just a few more.

[Wlv]

I never really used the sliders, nor understood them..have used the tactics creator ever since it's carnation, so I'm not too fussed that they're gone

[Da_Funk]

Statements like this really irritate me. I understand football just fine, however I don't have any intention of reading a 50 page tactical theories framework (or whatever it was called) to understand how I should be settings a dozen sliders to work in perfect harmony.

Why do you say this? Why did you need to read 50 pages? That's not true.

This post some how because wether numerical expressing is realistic in real life.

Numbers are fundamental in every sport.

You can't see it from the outside, it's not that a player looks or doesn't look fast, teams make test to see how fast a player is, they know that a player runs 60 meters in x.y seconds, that's what Acceleration 12 Speed 14 means. I'm NOT defending the fact that every attribute needs to be represented in a numerical way.

And if you look in fm they give you the possibility to see that a player "has succeed 14 heading out of 39 attempts". Don't tell me this is stupid or not realistic, or I have to say that truly someone doesn't know what football is.

Does SI have to delete these feature then "because numbers" "because no manager in real life choose according of that"?

I think it should be quite possible in the same way the TC interprets the sliders, to have a system "on top" of the 1-20 attributes we see now. Would be easy to divide the right attributes into the suitable category and produce a number from 1-5.

Even the wording is possible, but will take a little bit of doing to get right. It would work similar to the Biography page. Pre-written sentences that will get automatically selected depending on a player's attributes.

Fun fact: if you make a macro category like 1-5 they'll say that numerical is not realistic, if you substitute 1-5 with poor/average/good/verygood/excellent they'll say that's "new and realistic and football terms".

Anyhow you'll need to redefine the scouting completely. You'll need to have only accurate scouting if the player plays in matches, scouts need a lot more time to give complete scouting. You'll need to revamp scouting from the very beginning. If the player doesn't make a single cross you should know nothing about crossing for example.

What I dislike for numerical players attribute is, it is always so accurate. I am thinking how about the scout reports rating be ±5,±8,±10 of the accurate rating in database, and the higher reputation of the scout, the more accurate he reports. e.g. if a player I am very interested of have finish 15, and I send three scouts for him, they might report 11/15/16, then it will be reasonable for me to think his finish is about 14~16.

I remember I suggested something like this many times, and this is very important. Can't remember what the feedback to this suggestion was. The point is to have a layer that is an approximation of the effective attribute.

[MasterOfSuspense]

I would actually like to see less attributes visible - something like a general fitness, mental and technical rating is more realistic IMO - that way you base your team selection based on performances rather than a certain attribute

Sometimes a player with a 1 in creativity will create more and make more assists than a player with 20 - yet most people will pick the under performing 20 creativity player every time

I'd also like to see experience play a bigger part in performances - like throwing on a 36 year old midfielder to run the game down and protect a lead when a 16 year old (who was technically a better player) would be a liability in that situation because of his inexperience