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Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

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Henry_14

Henry_14

Posted
Posted
Please stop with the pleading poverty sh*t!

Our club generates bigger match day revenues than any other club on the planet and 5th highest overall revenue.

That might be the case but what we generate in revenue doesnt scratch the surface of what Chelsea and City have laying in the bank accounts of their oil tycoon investors

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ajw10

ajw10

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I'm fed up of the oil tycoon excuses now, Chelsea have had Roman since 2004. Isn't it about time we dealt with it.

Look, it's not always about who spend the most money, it's about who spends wisely. If we had more Artetas and Cazorlas in our squad and less Gervinhos and Andre Santos'then we would actually challenge and maybe win major honours.

If we would have bought in Cazorla and maybe someone like M'Vila then we could have even persuaded RvP to stay. Neither M'Vila or Cazorla breaks the bank and we keep our best player at the club.

Also, how many extra points do you reckon we would have had with Lloris in our starting line up?

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SJ234

SJ234

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Please stop with the pleading poverty sh*t!

Our club generates bigger match day revenues than any other club on the planet and 5th highest overall revenue.

We have are the 4th most valuable club in the world with an absolute abundance of resources but do not make best use of them.

We are in this position again because of Wenger’s incompetence, plain and simple.

To rely on one decent but inexperienced goalkeeper was a massive gamble that has backfired. Manonne exceeded expectations for a few games but a Championship quality goalkeeper was always going to be found out.

He relied on Abu Diaby as Alex Song’s replacement who had about as much chance staying fit as I do winning a forum member of the month contest in the full knowledge that Rosicky, Wilshere and Frimpong were out and the unfortunate Ramsey is not and probably never will be the same player.

After selling our only good striker to a rival club [who has scored six goals] he relies on a replacement from Ligue 1 who has had one good season and expects him to adapt immediately.

The reason we are so short in these positions and have been unable to strengthen is because Wenger is wasting our money on the wages of unreliable underperformers such as Sebastien Squillaci, Andrey Arshavin, Marouane Chamakh, Lukasz Fabianski & Johan Djourou.

Even Tomas Rosicky and Abou Diaby who can be great players on their day are fragile and cannot be relied upon, they offer poor value for money.

He also failed to recoup the transfer fees for the second year running for unwanted flops Nicklas Bendtner & Denilson and failed to offload his poor signings Ju-Young Park and Joel Campbell and I would also question whether Andre Santos & Gervinho offer value for money?

All in all we have a good first eleven but the squad make-up is an unbalanced shambles full of overpaid underperforming flops.

As well as the mismanagement of our finances all of Wenger’s deficiencies in influencing the action on the pitch are again on display for all to see.

He can’t motivate his players for smaller opposition and fails time and again to adapt when things are not going our way.

I’m sick and tired of seeing him employ the same old the same old failing system regardless of circumstances.

Why overload the midfield a goal down against Norwich when we already have 70% possession and no attacking threat?

He too stubborn, too scared or too stupid to change things when they are not working, probably a combination of all three.

Issues with this post are as follows 1) Wenger isn't directly at fault for the inability to find a buyer for those players though he certainly is indirectly through his failed egalitarian wage structure. 2) Diaby isn't Song's replacement but I agree in principal 3) How is Joel Campbell a poor signing? he cost nothing and was young with potential 4) Using the same system works for plenty of managers, people have styles of management with none being particularly better than another 5) we are seriously disadvantaged in terms of sponsorship etc which means forgetting player and property sales we only just break even 6) Wenger is many things but stupid isn't one of them

I'm fed up of the oil tycoon excuses now, Chelsea have had Roman since 2004. Isn't it about time we dealt with it.

Look, it's not always about who spend the most money, it's about who spends wisely. If we had more Artetas and Cazorlas in our squad and less Gervinhos and Andre Santos'then we would actually challenge and maybe win major honours.

If we would have bought in Cazorla and maybe someone like M'Vila then we could have even persuaded RvP to stay. Neither M'Vila or Cazorla breaks the bank and we keep our best player at the club.

Also, how many extra points do you reckon we would have had with Lloris in our starting line up?

1) There are two ways of dealing with it either invite Usmanov in to fund the club or improve the commercial deals which can't happen till 2014 in the main.

2) I agree we need a higher standard of player and about spending wisely; god knows what has happened to Gervinho since Lille

3) M'Vila has attitude problems but I do feel that if we are having to play Ramsey deep which I personally don't feel he is suited to then we are lacking in depth.

4) Lloris is a great keeper but how does that deal with Woj who would and rightly so want out. I am all in favour of bringing in a good keeper but not sure Lloris is what we should be after; this isn't me suggesting we shouldn't sign great players but in this scenario the message it would send to Woj isn't what is needed.

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ajw10

ajw10

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Who cares about Woj? Really. If he's as good as he thinks he is then Lloris being at the club shouldn't be a problem. And if Lloris turns out to be better than Woj (which I'm sure he would have been) then Arsenal get a better, more reliable keeper. If Woj doesn't want to stay then that's fine. Would show that he doesn't have the character to challenge for his spot. It's win/win for Arsenal. Much better than our current situation.

And with 1, what I'm saying is that we don't NEED more money, we just need to spend our money more wisely. Of course having more money would help, but there's no point using it as an excuse imo.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Who cares about Woj? Really. If he's as good as he thinks he is then Lloris being at the club shouldn't be a problem. And if Lloris turns out to be better than Woj (which I'm sure he would have been) then Arsenal get a better, more reliable keeper. If Woj doesn't want to stay then that's fine. Would show that he doesn't have the character to challenge for his spot. It's win/win for Arsenal. Much better than our current situation.

And with 1, what I'm saying is that we don't NEED more money, we just need to spend our money more wisely. Of course having more money would help, but there's no point using it as an excuse imo.

We need a reliable second choice with the ability to challenge Woj not a keeper who firstly some believe isn't suited to the English game and secondly would say Woj you're not good enough which signing Lloris would.

I agree with the idea but tbh we are pretty wise now as football clubs go and we aren't getting far. Though I agree there is always room for improvement

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ajw10

ajw10

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Sooo....we should avoid signing quality players in case it hurts our existing players feelings? Who's to say that us signing Lloris would have actually given Woj a massive kick up the backside? Almunia himself said that Woj has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. We cannot afford to have a keeper like that starting for us.

This is exactly why we are in the state we are in. We cannot sign a Cesc replacement because it will 'kill' Ramsey, or signing a Song replacement which will 'kill' Diaby, or a Gilberto/Flamini/Diarra replacement which will 'kill' Denilson. Signing Lloris will 'kill' Woj, Llorente will 'kill' Giroud.etc etc etc. I am sick of it.

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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I'm fed up of the oil tycoon excuses now, Chelsea have had Roman since 2004. Isn't it about time we dealt with it.

We have to be realistic and realise that we can't spend Chelsea money, OK I accept that. What I don't understand is why we can't be in for the 20-25 million pound player, the 150k a week player?

I thought that was the point of the new stadium, to take us to that level? Not 50 million and 250k but the sort of level Man Utd were operating on, they've moved on a bit now but you know what I mean? I would love to see a journalist ask Wenger this, when it comes to questions of financially competing with the rich clubs.

As for the squad we have, I do think they are good enough for the top 4, just, if Giroud starts scoring. As for financial fair play? Is that even relevant? Is it ever even gonna happen?

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SJ234

SJ234

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Sooo....we should avoid signing quality players in case it hurts our existing players feelings? Who's to say that us signing Lloris would have actually given Woj a massive kick up the backside? Almunia himself said that Woj has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. We cannot afford to have a keeper like that starting for us.

yes let's forget that I clearly stated that isn't what I meant. However I'll go over it again in this scenario I wouldn't take that course of action. I agree Woj needs competition and have said so many times. I agree he needs to mature but signing Lloris in my view isn't the right way to go about it.

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ajw10

ajw10

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So we need to sign a really good keeper who is prepared to sit on the bench and let Woj play, but play well if/when Woj loses form/gets injured?

This isn't FM y'know, keepers like that dont exist at all. All I know is that for the price he went for we should have definitely been in for him. But we didn't because it might kill Vito and Woj.

I reckon that if Wenger was in Fergie's shoes he wouldn't have signed RvP because it would have 'killed' Danny Welbeck and Javier Hernandez.

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SJ234

SJ234

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So we need to sign a really good keeper who is prepared to sit on the bench and let Woj play, but play well if/when Woj loses form/gets injured?

This isn't FM y'know, keepers like that dont exist at all. All I know is that for the price he went for we should have definitely been in for him. But we didn't because it might kill Vito and Woj.

I reckon that if Wenger was in Fergie's shoes he wouldn't have signed RvP because it would have 'killed' Danny Welbeck and Javier Hernandez.

Once again not what I said. If you wan't to have an argument with someone it's probably best to actually respond to what they said rather than what you hope they said

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Falahk

Falahk

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We have to be realistic and realise that we can't spend Chelsea money, OK I accept that. What I don't understand is why we can't be in for the 20-25 million pound player, the 150k a week player?

I thought that was the point of the new stadium, to take us to that level? Not 50 million and 250k but the sort of level Man Utd were operating on, they've moved on a bit now but you know what I mean? I would love to see a journalist ask Wenger this, when it comes to questions of financially competing with the rich clubs.

we are worse of economicaly and we can still pay Totti and De Rossi that kind of money, so it would not suprise me if Arsenal could get 3 players on 150k-ish if they streamlined that wage structure and figured out that the transfer tactics currently in use are not working effectivly enough
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Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted

Nothing will change as long as Wenger is at the helm. The whole club is stale and rotting from the inside.

Even a defensive expert in S.Bould can't polish a turd.

The whole argument that we can't compete with City and Chelsea financially really angers me. No one ever suggested we could but Wenger hides behind that statement every time he gets questioned. We can easily afford players in the £15-25m bracket on £80k-£120k week, probably more. But AW won't do it because "there isn't any value in the market"!!!! Well Lloris, Mata, Hazard, Dembele, Ba, Fellaini, Vertonghen, Huntelaar, Cahill etc etc all say hello.

Cue the usual suspects dissecting each player I've named and banging on about why we couldn't have them instead of actually addressing the overall point.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again whilst expecting a different result. Sums up AW and Gazidis.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Well.. its clearly what you have said but whatever. Only other thing I can think of is that you just really don't want Lloris.

No it isn't.

we are worse of economicaly and we can still pay Totti and De Rossi that kind of money, so it would not suprise me if Arsenal could get 3 players on 150k-ish if they streamlined that wage structure and figured out that the transfer tactics currently in use are not working effectivly enough

This is it exactly. We could if we didn't have such a flat wage structure which was an illogical idea from Wenger

This thread is an absolute car crash

this

I am bored of this rubbish. There are those who believe in Wenger and those who don't. There are plenty of issues with our club like most others but we shouldn't get this upset after this defeat if it becomes a regular experience this season then yeah fine. Let's just hope it was an off day, it happens even to good teams.

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Suggy33

Suggy33

Posted
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It does annoy me that whenever we lose (granted it was a very poor loss, I've admitted my disappointment) everyone just goes into meltdown and it turns into "WENGER OUT" for a week until we play next.

Can we not just get over it, look at the positives (Gnabry and Jack) and move on?

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EdL

EdL

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Wenger said we had a bid accepted, same as Utd, Chelsea and City (min fee release) and that Hazard chose who paid the most effectively. We never really had a chance against those teams.

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PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

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Hazard did exist before this season you know, when he was a teenager it was reported that arsenal were his dream club but im not gonna find the story, everyone has google!

Pretty sure that was just lazy journalism linking a young player in Ligue 1/promising young talent with Arsenal.

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Sy13

Sy13

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Pretty sure that was just lazy journalism linking a young player in Ligue 1/promising young talent with Arsenal.

Yeah, it can't possibly be true seeing as it doesn't suit your opinion!

Look, Arsenal have no ambition to better themselves, simples. Wenger doesn't need to match City and Chavski in the transfer market, he just needs to stop matching Everton! Even Spurs have more drive to improve.

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Henry_14

Henry_14

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Hazard did exist before this season you know, when he was a teenager it was reported that arsenal were his dream club but im not gonna find the story, everyone has google!

I think Hazard came out and said just about every club in Europe was his dream club, he's had more dreams than Robbie Keane

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ajw10

ajw10

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It does annoy me that whenever we lose (granted it was a very poor loss, I've admitted my disappointment) everyone just goes into meltdown and it turns into "WENGER OUT" for a week until we play next.

Can we not just get over it, look at the positives (Gnabry and Jack) and move on?

How was Jack a positive from the weekend?

And the reason people are criticising the manager is because for the last 4/5 years we never seem to be up for these games. Personnel has changed a lot in that time, the only constant is the manager. You can believe in and criticise someone at the same time you know.

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chris79

chris79

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So we lost a game against a relegation candidate and again there's talk about how we cannot compete with MC/MU/CFC because of money. I know most of this discussion has been 'general' and about title challenges etc but again it started after a bad performance in one game. I don't think our wage budget or transfer policy have anything to do with it. The players we fielded should have performed so that we created chances, and the reason they didn't is not they are overpaid or the squad lacks class or depth. They were just not good enough on the day.

As everyone I was angry after watching the game. I think Wenger made some mistakes in team selection and tactics, he waited with subs way too long. Playing 3 'small' ball passers in midfield was not working and Ramsey should have been taken off at HT. I was hoping it'd be Giroud coming off as well to let Gervinho, our only real threat on the day, play as a striker. With the limited space available, I think it was worth gambling on letting Arshavin play, he used to work magic in such situations before. Nothing like that happened and I am sure Arsene will learn from it. Or he juts knows the players and their current form better than we do.

But that is just one game, one poor performance. I think this is the low point of our season, possibly the lowest one. There is enough class in this team to get the results soon. It was just one game and even though the performances recently have not been great I think some small changes can make the team go back to winning ways. It is clear we missed what was so effective in the first games of the season and working so well: attacking fullbacks and an energetic central midfielder. Sagna's back to relief Jenkinson for a while at least, Jack should be there as well and maybe Diaby and Rosicky will be available so that we are not forced to play Ramsey there. Theo was also out which took another normally available option away from the manager. It'll be much better.

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pouncer

pouncer

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Sooo....we should avoid signing quality players in case it hurts our existing players feelings? Who's to say that us signing Lloris would have actually given Woj a massive kick up the backside? Almunia himself said that Woj has a lot of maturing and growing up to do. We cannot afford to have a keeper like that starting for us.

This is exactly why we are in the state we are in. We cannot sign a Cesc replacement because it will 'kill' Ramsey, or signing a Song replacement which will 'kill' Diaby, or a Gilberto/Flamini/Diarra replacement which will 'kill' Denilson. Signing Lloris will 'kill' Woj, Llorente will 'kill' Giroud.etc etc etc. I am sick of it.

This became completely null and void as soon as Manuel Almunia was quoted as a shining beacon of wisdom. Exactly the kind of player who's presence you're complaining about.

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ajw10

ajw10

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This became completely null and void as soon as Manuel Almunia was quoted as a shining beacon of wisdom. Exactly the kind of player who's presence you're complaining about.

Well... how exactly? Just because he wasn't a great goalkeeper doesn't mean his opinion is any less valued. Almunia has always been known as a top pro and a great guy, for these two reasons I trust his opinion.

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Dale Gribble

Dale Gribble

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Perhaps in past seasons I'd grant you that Hazard might have, although you'd be going back 3+ years to when he said Arsenal/Barca were the only clubs he'd join. Since he blew up and became a star he's flirted with every major club in Europe. I mean this summer he pretty much said to every club that it would be amazing to play for them, before eventually announcing he was joining 'the champions of Europe' before even agreeing any terms. He could pretty much pick and choose who he went to go for, he wasn't going to the team that would pay him half of everyone else, had no trophy prospects and according to Sy etc, a manager who's literally worse than Hitler.

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PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

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Hazard had no chance of joining Arsenal, you are deluded if you think he would have.

Whilst there was more chance of Hazard joining us than Australia hosting a World Cup, based on this summer I agree. However I'm pretty sure they're talking about Hazard signing for us 2 or 3 years ago when he was less "in demand".

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Kawee

Kawee

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Lille was only willing to sell him this summer though.

If Lille sold sooner, would they have won the championship? If Lille sold sooner, would they have bagged 30m+ for him? It's not like Wenger could just pinch him for 10m 2-3 years ago.

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SteveUK

SteveUK

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@Bergkamp financial fair play will happen but that is not the point. Will it even be vaguely effective? is the real question

Correct me if i'm wrong please but some of my understanding for a few of the fair play rules i've heard about is that a club is meant to live only by its income from selling players, ticket sales, souveneir/club shop sales and sponsorships right? so could say man city's owner just start up a new company and pay man city X number of millions to have the companies name on the kit/advertisement board, thus rendering the whole fair play completely exploitable?

also why did we fly to norwich? :eek:

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SJ234

SJ234

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Correct me if i'm wrong please but some of my understanding for a few of the fair play rules i've heard about is that a club is meant to live only by its income from selling players, ticket sales, souveneir/club shop sales and sponsorships right? so could say man city's owner just start up a new company and pay man city X number of millions to have the companies name on the kit/advertisement board, thus rendering the whole fair play completely exploitable?

also why did we fly to norwich? :eek:

Yes it is live within its own means such as that and some other areas. That is way too simple but the Etihad deal stinks a bit. They couldn't get around it that simply but more complicated systems to achieve the same effect could in theory. There is a panel of people who decide whether the deals are legitimate or not

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Llew_Arshavin23

Llew_Arshavin23

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Kristoffer Olsson and Jernade Meade both called up to our first-team squad for the Schalke match tomorrow night. Unlikely to earn a place on the substitute bench, but both have impressed me for the U-21's this season and last. For those wondering, Olsson's a creative attacking mdifielder, while Jernade Meade's a powerful left-back.

More worryingly, it seems as if Reice Charles-Cook will have to be on the bench tomorrow night. James Shea's out injured. Damián Martínez ineligible as he can't be registered - I believe he's been left out due to the strict home-grown rules that UEFA have enforced. Of course, there's the option of having 7 outfield players on the bench, but I doubt Arsène would be that bold!

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