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Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

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Sy13

Sy13

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Im rapidly losing faith in Giroud. And Wenger, 10 points off of the top out of 8 games is pathetic. Literally already out of the title race.

Are you serious? We were never in the title race after we sold our best player to United!

So, in 2 games against Norwich (yes, NORWICH) we've shipped 3 at home and then failed to score in the return fixture. Or 1 point from 6.

Actually hope this carries on now so Wenger has nowhere left to hide. What will he blame today - rain in Poland perhaps? The fact we had internationals away mid week compared to Norwich? Perhaps the grass was cut at the wrong angle or is it that we've had to play 2 games away in a row??

Season over. This lot CANNOT win a trophy, not in a million years.

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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I've tried to be optimistic about the squad, and I don't want to overact, but we are 9th. 8 games gone and we're already 10 points behind. I don't know what to say, Yes Wilshere, Rosicky, Sagna are all coming back but will it change?? Our midfield play today was worthless, nothing happening at all.

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PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

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:lol: :lol:

The Arsenal fans I know are mainly optimistic, somewhat positive or hopeful. Fair enough if the Scousers are movin away from it. And they all know that tradition where you boys supporting a team that plays in the CL is all a show now. You know you don't have a chance in the long run and it's inevitable that you'll be relegated one day.

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The Arsenal fans I know are mainly optimistic, somewhat positive or hopeful. Fair enough if the Scousers are movin away from it. And they all know that tradition where you boys supporting a team that plays in the CL is all a show now. You know you don't have a chance in the long run and it's inevitable that you'll be relegated one day.
You're not even close to being good enough. Move on.
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Retro

Retro

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Anyway, that was a tragic performance. What irritates the most is that we fell behind early enough for the goal to represent a wake-up call, but there was no real response from the players. Disappointing.

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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Why should you?

We should be challenging for the league because we are a big club with big resources, (obviously not Chelsea and City style but in the higher bracket). A club of such stature that the expectations has to be to try and win the major trophies.

I also think that Wenger has these expectations as well, and I think he's still capable. There is of course evidence that this is looking less and less likely but......

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Said this in August about Man United and you all went spacko suggesting you were. Once again you're not.

Good game that, we're not very good - title challengers beat us at Carrow Road, without fail.

You got responses from about 4 or 5 people at most... and for the most part they were arguing about what constituted a 'competitor' not maintaining that we were as good as Man Utd nor competing for the title with them.

For example I wrote: "The original comment was about selling our best player to one of our competitors. It doesn't actually have to mean a team we're competing with now, it could mean a team at a level we're hoping to achieve... Man Utd are competitors because they are an obstacle to our ultimate aim [title challengers]".

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Retro

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We should be challenging for the league because we are a big club with big resources, (obviously not Chelsea and City style but in the higher bracket). A club of such stature that the expectations has to be to try and win the major trophies.

I also think that Wenger has these expectations as well, and I think he's still capable. There is of course evidence that this is looking less and less likely but......

So if we have at least two clubs with significantly bigger resources than us - how can we expect to compete? We can hope to compete, but we can't expect it imo.

Arsenal are now in a similar spot to where we've been for the last 50 years or so. We're a big club but we're not as financially well off as some of our competitors (there's that word again). We do have a better chance of getting in the mix than most other clubs and we should always be aiming to get there, but I just don't think we can expect it and chuck the toys out of the pram when we don't win things.

Oh and we had a crap result today. It's not the end of the world. I didn't expect us to compete for the league this season - but I do think we can get in the CL positions again.

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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So if we have at least two clubs with significantly bigger resources than us - how can we expect to compete? We can hope to compete, but we can't expect it imo.

Arsenal are now in a similar spot to where we've been for the last 50 years or so. We're a big club but we're not as financially well off as some of our competitors (there's that word again). We do have a better chance of getting in the mix than most other clubs and we should always be aiming to get there, but I just don't think we can expect it and chuck the toys out of the pram when we don't win things.

Oh and we had a crap result today. It's not the end of the world. I didn't expect us to compete for the league this season - but I do think we can get in the CL positions again.

When I say challenge for the league I mean stay within distance of the top 3 until say March-April, Although that sounds slightly ridiculous because losing it then is still losing it, however you look at it. But my point is at least that would show a team pushing the top 3 teams and only being overshadowed by the 3 who have much bigger resources than us. At the moment its looking like we won't be competing with the top 5-6 regardless of how strong the top 3 our, and that is not acceptable.

Of course it is early days yet and whos to say we won't make the top 3 again, but I just got the feeling today that this is the sort result we might start seeing every 3 weeks. One of those performances when all those little doubts reared thier ugly head again. We need a good solid run over the next 10 games. Then we'll see.

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Retro

Retro

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I genuinely do think we will be competing for the CL spots. I could be wrong of course. We don't look great at the moment and we're obviously not in the same bracket at the top 3 but I do think we've got a better squad than the rest.

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Razzler

Razzler

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As poor as you started last season you ended up 3rd so you figure you'll be in the running for top 4 although Chelsea are much stronger. Spurs will be interesting though.

It's games like this Norwich game that show why you're not really close to that title though, there's no explanation for how ineffetive Arsenal were all over the pitch :/

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Sy13

Sy13

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So if we have at least two clubs with significantly bigger resources than us - how can we expect to compete? We can hope to compete, but we can't expect it imo.

Arsenal are now in a similar spot to where we've been for the last 50 years or so. We're a big club but we're not as financially well off as some of our competitors (there's that word again). We do have a better chance of getting in the mix than most other clubs and we should always be aiming to get there, but I just don't think we can expect it and chuck the toys out of the pram when we don't win things.

Oh and we had a crap result today. It's not the end of the world. I didn't expect us to compete for the league this season - but I do think we can get in the CL positions again.

Montpelier did it.

The end.

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Retro

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I honestly don't think that Arsenal have the squad to compete with the top 3. Your squad is certainly well behind Chelsea's and City's and are also behind United's.
you clearly misread what I wrote if that's responding to my post directly above.
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Retro

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Montpelier did it.

The end.

and where did I say we couldn't do it? You understand the difference between expectation and achievement right? In fact I implied that we are capable of doing it.

We didn't expect to win the title in 1998 but we did it.

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Dale Gribble

Dale Gribble

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Yeah, awful example really, you can't really compare the two.

To be honest I kinda feel that everyone's being unrealistic saying we should challenge for the title, the only reason why we should be is based on history as in the past 20 years we've always generally been up there. However as it's been said, we can't compete with the resources of Utd, City and Chelsea, the first because they've had an incredible foundation to build on and the latter two because of billionaires. It's not something that Arsenal have done wrong, it's because of the circumstances changing around us. So in that case we should be challenging for 4th and maybe 3rd each season, which we do anyway so I don't really see the problem.

You can't really complain at the strength of the squad that Wenger has put together given the money he's spent. I'd easily put Cazorla as one of the best midfielders in the league and we paid £15m, sure Hazard etc would be better but not worth twice the money. We signed an established German international striker for £12m and I'd definitely take three of him over one Andy Carroll. Not to mention the youth products we have coming through like Wilshere, Szczesny and Gibbs. Oxlade-Chamberlain looks like he'll turn into an incredible player for £12m too.

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SJ234

SJ234

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We were terrible yesterday it was lethargic etc. No need to panic tbh as though we are only slightly better off than last season the performances are generally much less worrying. We will be fine and could still challenge though this sense of entitlement regarding challenging is pathetic.

We need a backup keeper and a another forward. I don't want to see that front 3 together again it just doesn't perform that well. It is too direct and forward thinking. Need more of a midfielder type like Ramsey or Chamberlain to balance it out.

Also Gnabry deserves to remain involved after yesterday.

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Suggy33

Suggy33

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Montpellier is an awful example in such a dynamic league where there's been 5 different winners of that league in the last 5 years (Bordeaux, Marseille, Montpellier, Lyon and Lille) with PSG almost certainly going to be a 6th in 6 years.

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BJG123

BJG123

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You got responses from about 4 or 5 people at most... and for the most part they were arguing about what constituted a 'competitor' not maintaining that we were as good as Man Utd nor competing for the title with them.

For example I wrote: "The original comment was about selling our best player to one of our competitors. It doesn't actually have to mean a team we're competing with now, it could mean a team at a level we're hoping to achieve... Man Utd are competitors because they are an obstacle to our ultimate aim [title challengers]".

The last part of that is incorrect though. Your ultimate aim is not to win the league. It might be in the fans' eyes but not the boards, which is to maximise profits. That's what's wrong with Arsenal really. It makes sense to run the club in a sustainable way but Arsenal go beyond that and put extra profit ahead of footballing pursuits.

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SJ234

SJ234

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The last part of that is incorrect though. Your ultimate aim is not to win the league. It might be in the fans' eyes but not the boards, which is to maximise profits. That's what's wrong with Arsenal really. It makes sense to run the club in a sustainable way but Arsenal go beyond that and put extra profit ahead of footballing pursuits.

I am sorry but how do you feel informed enough to tell us this. We are all aware of the financial position of Arsenal probably more so than you. The issue is far from as simple as the bottom line profits we make.

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Chr1s Lawson

Chr1s Lawson

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I know we'll pull something out of the bag this season (by that I mean top 4) like always, but I honestly believe there are 4 teams better than us this year. We have 2 stand out (currently not injured) players Cazorla & Arteta, who are among the best in the league and many prospects, but most of the others imho are pretty average. You only have to look at the front lines of our 'rivals' to see that we are an extremely long way behind. When I look at our squad only Cazorla & maybe the Ox who is still a prospect and nowhere near the finished article, excite me as players. A far reach from years gone by ie. 1998-2006.

Tbh the reason I believe we are in this position though is because of Abramovic & Chelsea. We made the decision to move to the Emireates when we were at the top of English football and had to make sacrifices. Chelsea came along at the worst possible time while we were in transition and changed the financial aspect of the game entirely. We, already commited to the new stadium had no chance to compete and still have no chance. Utd as the biggest club in the world and no financial commitments like ours were able to rise to the challenge and compete. Then City came along, changed the rules again and only Utd & Chelsea have been able to compete with them. While those 3 have evolved with the times, we are still stuck in 2004 allowing teams like Tottenham to catch up.

Until our financial restrictions are relaxed and FFP come into place we have no hope of competing for a title, we can't rely on young players and bargains anymore (although they are getting us by to our current level) the EPL has evolved too far for that now!

Arsenal are currently run in an unambitious and low risk manner. Spending high amounts can bring rich rewards on the pitch meaning we'll cover the cost of expensive aquisitions, but the risk is falling flat on our face like Liverpool. Being low risk as we are by relying on youth and bargains means we are able to fail without a massive financial burden, so far we've just managed to scrape top 4 every year, eventually we'll fail!

How would everyone prefer we were run?

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Sy13

Sy13

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I know we'll pull something out of the bag this season (by that I mean top 4) like always, but I honestly believe there are 4 teams better than us this year. We have 2 stand out (currently not injured) players Cazorla & Arteta, who are among the best in the league and many prospects, but most of the others imho are pretty average. You only have to look at the front lines of our 'rivals' to see that we are an extremely long way behind. When I look at our squad only Cazorla & maybe the Ox who is still a prospect and nowhere near the finished article, excite me as players. A far reach from years gone by ie. 1998-2006.

Tbh the reason I believe we are in this position though is because of Abramovic & Chelsea. We made the decision to move to the Emireates when we were at the top of English football and had to make sacrifices. Chelsea came along at the worst possible time while we were in transition and changed the financial aspect of the game entirely. We, already commited to the new stadium had no chance to compete and still have no chance. Utd as the biggest club in the world and no financial commitments like ours were able to rise to the challenge and compete. Then City came along, changed the rules again and only Utd & Chelsea have been able to compete with them. While those 3 have evolved with the times, we are still stuck in 2004 allowing teams like Tottenham to catch up.

Until our financial restrictions are relaxed and FFP come into place we have no hope of competing for a title, we can't rely on young players and bargains anymore (although they are getting us by to our current level) the EPL has evolved too far for that now!

Arsenal are currently run in an unambitious and low risk manner. Spending high amounts can bring rich rewards on the pitch meaning we'll cover the cost of expensive aquisitions, but the risk is falling flat on our face like Liverpool. Being low risk as we are by relying on youth and bargains means we are able to fail without a massive financial burden, so far we've just managed to scrape top 4 every year, eventually we'll fail!

How would everyone prefer we were run?

By not lying to the fans every year and actually going out and spending the money we clearly have on quality players like Mata, Hazard, Goetze, MVila etc.

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djvandyke

djvandyke

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Please stop with the pleading poverty sh*t!

Our club generates bigger match day revenues than any other club on the planet and 5th highest overall revenue.

We have are the 4th most valuable club in the world with an absolute abundance of resources but do not make best use of them.

We are in this position again because of Wenger’s incompetence, plain and simple.

To rely on one decent but inexperienced goalkeeper was a massive gamble that has backfired. Manonne exceeded expectations for a few games but a Championship quality goalkeeper was always going to be found out.

He relied on Abu Diaby as Alex Song’s replacement who had about as much chance staying fit as I do winning a forum member of the month contest in the full knowledge that Rosicky, Wilshere and Frimpong were out and the unfortunate Ramsey is not and probably never will be the same player.

After selling our only good striker to a rival club [who has scored six goals] he relies on a replacement from Ligue 1 who has had one good season and expects him to adapt immediately.

The reason we are so short in these positions and have been unable to strengthen is because Wenger is wasting our money on the wages of unreliable underperformers such as Sebastien Squillaci, Andrey Arshavin, Marouane Chamakh, Lukasz Fabianski & Johan Djourou.

Even Tomas Rosicky and Abou Diaby who can be great players on their day are fragile and cannot be relied upon, they offer poor value for money.

He also failed to recoup the transfer fees for the second year running for unwanted flops Nicklas Bendtner & Denilson and failed to offload his poor signings Ju-Young Park and Joel Campbell and I would also question whether Andre Santos & Gervinho offer value for money?

All in all we have a good first eleven but the squad make-up is an unbalanced shambles full of overpaid underperforming flops.

As well as the mismanagement of our finances all of Wenger’s deficiencies in influencing the action on the pitch are again on display for all to see.

He can’t motivate his players for smaller opposition and fails time and again to adapt when things are not going our way.

I’m sick and tired of seeing him employ the same old the same old failing system regardless of circumstances.

Why overload the midfield a goal down against Norwich when we already have 70% possession and no attacking threat?

He too stubborn, too scared or too stupid to change things when they are not working, probably a combination of all three.

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