FM2012 difficulty.

[Keyzer Soze]

The AI cant look at players like you do and tailor it's instructions to them. It sees players as an Age a position a reputation and a CA.If you imagine in their prime Beckham and Giggs having the same CA and being RM LM respectively the AI would assign them both the same instruction while you could examine their attributes and set different instructions to get the best from both of them.

Lots of problems with AI squad building can in my opinion only be addressed by rewriting the AI to look at players in a much more detailed and human manor.

I dont think that the AI its so limited, but i agree that we have tools to take the best from the players.

I dont think that the AI would give Giggs and Beckham the same instruction, but i'm sure that it will give them standard instructions from the TC (winger with attack duty to giggs, and perhaps wide midfielder with support duty to Beckham).

We, human managers, work from those standard instruction but tweak them according the player attributes.

This could be the main reason why players play better for human teams. Despite, i still believe that we must not generalize because like i said in my post about Nicolas Gaitan, there could be logical reasons why the player plays worst in the AI team.

Perhaps this could be the next step for the AI: starting from the standard TC instructions, have the ability to tweak them to take the best from the players. (this is valid for the team and player instructions)

[el_magico89]

does anyone else experience a problem like your own players dont wanna play for your, because they think, "the lack of experiences could damage the team"??? Ive started a save with everton, my managerial reputation is very low, from the first day on, almost the whole team was struggling to motivate themselves to play for me. now 10 games played, 26 out of 30 points, leading the table, qtr finals in carling cup and still there are several players with the same problem. its really annoying, as I cant get the best out of my team, when some players are not motivated. in fm 11, this problem was very quickly solved, mostly after the first 4-5 friendlies, very you really convinced everyone or at least after the first couple of games. but in fm 12, in another save, even reaching the 3rd place with everton and winning the carling cup, in the next season, there were still players, who had motivation problems, because of my low reputation. what do you guys normally do? do you set your reputation to high when you manage a pl team?

nobody experiencing this kind of a problem?

[hursty2]

The AI cant look at players like you do and tailor it's instructions to them. It sees players as an Age a position a reputation and a CA.If you imagine in their prime Beckham and Giggs having the same CA and being RM LM respectively the AI would assign them both the same instruction while you could examine their attributes and set different instructions to get the best from both of them.

Lots of problems with AI squad building can in my opinion only be addressed by rewriting the AI to look at players in a much more detailed and human manor.

Where is this from? I take it is an assumption of your own, the AI is far more complex than this.

[axehan1]

nobody experiencing this kind of a problem?

it took me as man utd manager until the first weekof feb for this to dissapear from their reports.so keep going mate it wont last for much longer.

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

Spurs

Can you just confirm tactic used, teamtalks and goals from corners.

PS

Anty transfers?

tactics: depends on home and away

home games : Balanced/Standard, more direct, more aggressive, ( all others Default )

away games : Counter, default or short ( depends on the size of opponent pitch as i'm using scouting reports ) more aggressive ( sometimes i'm using deep defensive line if the strikers are pacy )

team-talks, the pre-season i was very careful with the players who i trust considering i'm playing touch games and lose heavily should be expected ( the others which i listed them asked to prove their worth ), the squad wasn't ready at the start of the season, the morale very down to earth, losing 1-4 away from home in the opening day, then first win and little by little ( with more additions ) and morale and results improved.

never using set-pieces and corner things.

signings : click here

full squad : click here

the most important notice about this thread - which i failed to explain in last posts do to my average English - : i used to play in this level before in other versions with teams like Droylsden ( 3th place predicated ) , Farsley ( poor team ) , Stafford ( Mid-table team ), and yes i got promoted promoted with them, Droylsden in first year by playoff, Stafford can't remember, but Farlsey needed three years and first year i think mid-table .. I've relgeted with Bognor Regis i think in FM2010 ?

i used to take so many ours to improve my teams in the past, but in this version, i used to play so less than before due to personal life changed, yet i find it's easier. Really hope i'm mistaken about this version.

[deathspawn666]

only need 2 things to win most games: corner exploit (yeah use it because AI will use it too), fast strikers (will own a lot since defenders are morons and won't tackle)

[bendhondt]

Too easy for me.

I started in the french league with Lille. I won the Ligue 1 (not really amazing as Lille won in real life the previous season). But my main problem is I won the Champions League !!! And the final was Lille - Marseille ! It will NEVER happen in real life.

Last 16 I have eliminated Real Madrid (2-1 away & 3-2 home)

Quarter : Arsenal (1-0 home & 3-4 away)

Semi : Manchester U (1-0 home & 1-1 away with last minute goal).

Final : Marseille (3-2 with last minute own goal).

It can be a "perfect season", something who will never happen again. But everytime I play a "big" team, I am not really worry. My guys are really good ! And marseille did it too !

FM is too easy in my opinion. I'd like to see it more realistic. The AI of the other clubs is just rubbish. They can't keep yound players, they sell them too easly and when they have the money, they do not invest it nicely.

Often french clubs buy +32y players with high wage with 3y contract to put them in the reserve as soon they are 34y (even if they are good.)

I think it will be good for SI to work on this side of the game : the AI.

Also, something I really hate : when you refuse an offer and you select "refuse all offers" and the same club come back to you with a.. lower offer 1 week or 1 month later. Another problem with the AI. It's more A than I ;-)

[hagakure]

I want to play FM 2012, but I dont think we wil get any new patch soon so I decided to make a few home rules to make the game more challenging.

- dont use the search possibilities for players, use only your own scouts

- dont use the corner exploit

- start to play in low division, take a weak team

- reset moral for the players after each 6-7 games through FMRTE

- make your own tactics and training

anything else?

[Kaiser_Tottenham]

I want to play FM 2012, but I dont think we wil get any new patch soon so I decided to make a few home rules to make the game more challenging.

- dont use the search possibilities for players, use only your own scouts

- dont use the corner exploit

- start to play in low division, take a weak team

- reset moral for the players after each 6-7 games through FMRTE

- make your own tactics and training

anything else?

I'm always playing that LLM way

really makes the game more fun.

[vlacke]

I am new to this forum, but a veteran in the game itself, have been playing since 01/02.

I voted that it is easier than it should be.

I am of the opinion as some people have stated already in this thread, that AI needs improvements definitely especially in the tactical department and even more so in the transfer market.

There are situations when a big team (Chelsea etc. for example) is doing badly in the league, like mid table, and have over 150 million euros for transfer budget but they just aren't buying anything good, less alone quality.

[The Threadstarter]

Being (over) confident in press conferences can do wonders, at least I think.

edit:replying to hagakure

[wwfan]

only need 2 things to win most games: corner exploit (yeah use it because AI will use it too), fast strikers (will own a lot since defenders are morons and won't tackle)

I think the testing going on around this thread has pretty much conclusively proved that the AI does not use a corner exploit.

[Siorac86]

I can't believe people actually suggest the game should be easier.

It is incredibly hard and frustrating. I got promoted after a very difficult season and in the top flight it seems that we are simply not allowed to win. In 9 games so far we hit the woodwork 10 times; in our last three games we created a total of 11 clear cut chances and got ONE point. I'm sick of totally outplaying the opposition and losing, especially as it never happens the other way around.

My tactics are best suited for my players but it feels like FM wants to force something else on me, possibly 4-4-2 as every team seems to use that. I'm sick of seeing my strikers constantly hitting the post or simply missing the target from 2 yards (we are still winless because in our last away game one of them did just that at 2-2 in the 90th minute; we conceded from the attack after the goalkick.) Morale is good (seriously, it is actually good because we are playing well) and there's just no way of knowing what's wrong, apart from the fact that my striker with 14 finishing, 13 composure, 15 acc and 15 pace - which is comfortably good enough in the Hungarian Division I - is yet to score despite being one on one with the keeper two or three times in every game.

FM 2012 is definitely the most difficult FM yet. Even without corners being totally lethal, you just can't defend against them.

[ShirazS]

I think that the FM12 difficulty level is close to being just right aside from the Corner exploit and the AI squad management. When SI sort those two out, I think it will be perfect

[William.Hua]

It's a little bit easier than I expected, acceptable anyway.

[Neo14]

I just finished my second season with Marseille in France and the game is too easy.

I won the championship two times, 2 cups of France and 2 champions league.

Do you find this realistic??

[Jimmy_Jambo]

I just finished my second season with Marseille in France and the game is too easy.

I won the championship two times, 2 cups of France and 2 champions league.

Do you find this realistic??

About as realistic as an unknown person like yourself managing such a top side in France.

[PaulC]

I just finished my second season with Marseille in France and the game is too easy.

I won the championship two times, 2 cups of France and 2 champions league.

Do you find this realistic??

Can I ask what starting reputation you selected please?

[electric_boogaloo]

my first impression is too easy.

i've only been playing a few days and haven't completed a season yet but i'm forest and six points clear in the championship with a very small squad and no money.

we'll see in the premier league i suppose but there's no good reason why my team should be playing as well as they are.

[PaulC]

Could I do a quick straw poll please?

1) Do you find it too easy, hard or ok?

2) What was your starting reputation and which club are you managing?

Cheers,

Paul

[milnerpoint]

Finding it ok, managing Aberdeen, starting rep was auto i think.

[andu1]

Finding it very easy, managing Steaua Bucharest, reputation is automatic. Won last 3 titles in a row.

I am noticing a large amount of goals scored, too many games end with scores like 5-1, 5-0, 3-3 etc.

[BiggusD]

I am on both sides of the fence.

I started with Bradford and won L2 easily, now I am in the lead in L1 too and I feel comfortable I will be able to go straight up to PL.

Then I started a two-player game with a friend, he Napoli me Roma. He won Serie A comfortably while I ended 5th. Same tactic as with Bradford, tried and tested from FM11. I just couldn't get the forwards scoring consistently, which is a little disappointing. Roma's reputation is high but team quality is quite poor, especially up front.

In both games I started with automatic reputation, which ended up as Regional.

[shirajzl]

1) I'm finding it ok. The league is a bit easier (as in real life), but on European stage I'm far from being competitive (again, as in real life).

2) International player, Hajduk (Croatia)

[alexyfoot]

1) Too easy

2) Starting rep - Semi-Pro - Teams Napoli, Darmstadt, Hoffenheim (all started from season 1, not a continuos career).

[Matej]

1st save: Everton, easy diff, auto rep. won champ league and 3 times premiership in i think 5 seasons.

2nd save : Metz , ok diff, sunday rep. I started unemployed, got job in Metz in november i think. they where 19th at that time and i managed to be 10th till the end of season. Problem there was that i couldnt sell players( i put around 20 players on transfer list, whole B squad plus some from A squad) and they had 0 money to spend. So i had to use their players and change my fav tactic 4-1-2-1-2 to 442.

[omar bassiony]

:confused:its hard and need one like the mo to win in it!!!!

[lee_uk]

1. seems ok up to now

2. sunday league rep,managing munster liga 3

[Erimus1876]

Bishops Stortford (Demo).

Prediction 20th.

Reputation Semi-Pro.

Quit after 14 games, W11 D1 L2... Too Easy.

Hartlepool United.

Prediction 13th.

Reputation Automatic.

Quit in February 2012, 8 points clear at the top of L1.... Far Too Easy.

Barnet.

Prediction 24th.

Reputation Automatic.

Quit after 18 games, top 6, best defence, 24 points clear of my predicted 24th spot... Too Easy

Barnet #2.

Prediction 24th.

Reputation Automatic.

Quit after 15 games, top 8, 17 points ahead of 24th... Too Easy.

South Bank AFC (custom league structure with Northen League Div.1).

Prediction 22nd.

Reputation Sunday League.

Finished 2nd in the league... Too Easy

Napoli.

Prediction 8th.

Reputation Automatic.

Quit after 16 games, was 6th in Serie A... Doing as expected.

Despite 5 attempts with teams predicted to struggle, I've not had a relegation battle yet.

[Neo14]

Can I ask what starting reputation you selected please?

I don't change the starting réputation (automatic)

I have all CM and FM and seriously the game is very easy.

My first season with Marseille without transfer because no money:

47 wins 59 games -----

Unbeaten in L1

Champion in L1

Winner of the CDF

Champions League winner against Barca

My second seson with Marseille:

Champion in L1

Winner of the CDF

Winner in champions league against Real Madrid

Overall:

128 games for 100 wins and 20 draws and 8 loses.

In real life, never Marseille or french club will be able to win the champions league in near futur.

I put my save in your FTP if you want to see.

FM 2012 is not too easy for beginners and it's normal, but for older players is very very easy.

It would be interesting if we could choose the level of difficulty at the beginning of the game (hard to older, natural or easy for beginners), like all video games.

At least everyone would be happy.

[hursty2]

Could I do a quick straw poll please?

1) Do you find it too easy, hard or ok?

Ok, 3rd season and I'm sat 10th with Stoke. 12th in the first season then 7th in the second.

2) What was your starting reputation and which club are you managing?

I started with a professional footballer rep.

Cheers,

Paul

Here we go.

[ShirazS]

Could I do a quick straw poll please?

1) Do you find it too easy, hard or ok?

I think it is ok, not too easy and not too hard. Goals from corners definitely need looking at though, they are too frequent.

2) What was your starting reputation and which club are you managing?

Automatic Reputation, managing Dortmund

Cheers,

Paul

Answers above

[Luke1988]

Could I do a quick straw poll please?

1) Do you find it too easy, hard or ok?

2) What was your starting reputation and which club are you managing?

Cheers,

Paul

1) Far too easy - to the point where I can’t get into this years version for the first time ever. Which is a massive shame as this year’s version does have the potential to be the best ever!

2) First game - Sunday League Rep - I was flying high with Bury in league one without any significant changes. The target was to avoid relegation and there I was comfortable brushing aside the top teams with players twice as good as Bury's.

Second game - Professional Footballer Rep - Started unemployed. Took over sheff united in league one in October who were in the relegation zone after sacking their manager. First ten game were won 9 drew 1 and in most games I was having 20+ shots. Total turnaround without changing a thing! The final straw was the eleventh game (and the last game I will play on this years version unless a fix is sorted) where I was 1-0 up in a league match at 5th placed Yeovil. I then had a man sent off at the beginning of the second half but still went on to score three more goals and win the game 4-0 - ridiculous.

I understand that some people might enjoy it being easier however the one thing that FM has over all of its rivals and makes the game so addictive is the realism of it, unfortunately, this years doesn’t have that atall due to it being far too easy.

I've given up on this game until something is sorted. Really disappointed.

[tut]

OK, the long discussion /14 Pages/ made it clear that the game is too easy for 30% of playing people and should be fixed anyway. Dear SI Team, can you advise me is something already done in this course, and when can we expect some results ? This issue becomes frustrating for me, because it's one month already gone, and I can't still playing the game, I have bought. Actually playing the game is not the most important thing in my life, but I got used to have my moments of entertainment after work and I want them back...So, please, tell me is the work on a patch in progress..and when approx. can we see the good job done?

[Mike7077]

Could I do a quick straw poll please?

1) Do you find it too easy, hard or ok?

2) What was your starting reputation and which club are you managing?

Cheers,

Paul

1) I find FM12 as hard as FM has ever been. I would say the difficulty is about right, though.

2) I'm managing Panathinaikos and starting reputation was "Professional Footballer". Didn't win the title in the first season. Just about managed to come second and then win the European places play-off. Second season I'm top but hardly pulling away. European competition is impossible.

Frankly, I'm amazed that 30% of people think the game is too easy. I must be really bad at this.

[PaulC]

Yes, we are working hard behind the scenes to find a balance that will keep everyone happy. Bear in mind more people in this poll said the level was ok than too easy. We get it wrong and suddenly its 30% or more saying the game is now too hard!

[lee_uk]

rather too hard than too easy

[PaulC]

rather too hard than too easy

Personally I agree, but there are plenty of people who have paid money for the game who might not agree.

As I said, we need to find a balance. Especially when updating a product people already paid for based on a demo in many cases.

[alexyfoot]

Personally I agree, but there are plenty of people who have paid money for the game who might not agree.

As I said, we need to find a balance. Especially when updating a product people already paid for based on a demo in many cases.

That is why some people advocate for introducing difficulty levels, I can't see anyone disagreeing with SI on the fact that they want new customers for the game rather than focusing solely on us, experienced guys. From the fact that there is no sound coming from you guys on theme, I presume it is not entirely possible. Maybe if you could increase the effect of manager starting rep even more, that would help balance the game for all. I am not sure how much you can tweak in it but should be a good starting point.

On a side note - can I change my ability in FMRTE so that I am "less capable" of managing my team as I am already in year 3 and I realize I should have started with a sunday-league footballer rather than semi-pro to make it tougher. Would changing my CA have any effect?

[hagakure]

OK, the long discussion /14 Pages/ made it clear that the game is too easy for 30% of playing people and should be fixed anyway. Dear SI Team, can you advise me is something already done in this course, and when can we expect some results ? This issue becomes frustrating for me, because it's one month already gone, and I can't still playing the game, I have bought. Actually playing the game is not the most important thing in my life, but I got used to have my moments of entertainment after work and I want them back...So, please, tell me is the work on a patch in progress..and when approx. can we see the good job done?

I guess that there wil be a patch around mid desember/before Christmas and than a a new patch at the end of february with database update.

[schiv85]

Im finding it ok.

Started off with Professional Footballer rep with Newcastle.

1st Season 10th and FA Cup win.

2nd Season finished 2nd and no trophy

3rd Season 7th and FA Cup and League Cup double.

I find the domestic cup games easy, essentially because teams field weakened sides and ive been very lucky with the teams ive been drawn against.

My 3rd season FA Cup win was against a Championship level Sheff Utd for instance.

Just started 4th season and im yet to win in my first 4 competitive games, despite morale being sky high after the previous season.

Thoroughly enjoying FM12, more so than any of the games since CM01/02, and thats saying something!!

[hatmab123]

Personally I agree, but there are plenty of people who have paid money for the game who might not agree.

As I said, we need to find a balance. Especially when updating a product people already paid for based on a demo in many cases.

Don't forget those loyal customers who paid for the game based upon years of enjoying the previous versions who are finding it far too easy - like me!

[Mike7077]

The scary thing is that if people manage to convince SI it's definitely too easy, I may as well give up entirely. I won't stand a chance if the game gets any harder.

[PaulC]

Well we learnt a long time ago that we cant please everyone all of the time......

[Exius]

I think it's very difficult to find a balance between too easy and too hard. I suggested once in whishlist thread an idea about coaching attributes for human manager. It could help in this situation. For example, Motivating attribute defines how good squad reacts to your team talks, Level of discipline - how strict they follow your tactical instructions and so on... The higher reputation you choose starting a game, the higher CA and attributes you'll have, so the game will be easier to you. And so everybody could choose the difficulty level that suits them.

[Mike7077]

Well we learnt a long time ago that we cant please everyone all of the time......

Of course you can't. I would never suggest that you could. What I'm struggling to follow with FM12 is that there seems to be a fairly strong body of opinion that the game is too easy this time round. But I can detect no difference. It's not harder than past versions, but I'm doing no better than I've done in the past. So I'm finding it hard to understand what people have found that makes the game so easy to them because it's just not happening for me.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Yes, we are working hard behind the scenes to find a balance that will keep everyone happy. Bear in mind more people in this poll said the level was ok than too easy. We get it wrong and suddenly its 30% or more saying the game is now too hard!

Yes but how many of those have found previous versions difficult but now find FM12 more 'user friendly'?

[milnerpoint]

Of course you can't. I would never suggest that you could. What I'm struggling to follow with FM12 is that there seems to be a fairly strong body of opinion that the game is too easy this time round. But I can detect no difference. It's not harder than past versions, but I'm doing no better than I've done in the past. So I'm finding it hard to understand what people have found that makes the game so easy to them because it's just not happening for me.

your in the same boat as me mike, i havent found this version any easier, infact the opposite at times.

[Neo14]

Yes, we are working hard behind the scenes to find a balance that will keep everyone happy. Bear in mind more people in this poll said the level was ok than too easy. We get it wrong and suddenly its 30% or more saying the game is now too hard!

That's why, if we can choose a level difficulty, everyone will be happy.

[dreghorn2]

The problem i have is what exactly will be changed to make it more difficult, or less for that matter?

It should be difficult because you are taking a small team in a big league and your players are not as good, or your budget too small, etc..

The game is supposed to be tactic and resource driven. We are supposed to excel, or fail, because of our tactical acumen or excellent transfer dealings, or in either case, lack thereof.

So what exactly is to be tweaked to make the game 'correct?'

In my humble opinion the game took a dangerous turn with the addition of morale, things simply have not been the same since. Even with previous additions you could easily overchieve, use players out of position, use crazy formations etc.. if you had your team talks correct and figured out your teams individual personalities it made them too overpowered.

If SI is looking to make an adjustment here it seems they are looking at adjusting morale specifically to try and stop long win streaks etc.. this simply shows just how overpowered morale actually is. In addition unfortunately until the AI gets a serious revamp long term games with top clubs are simply a waste of time.

Its' too bad i've really enjoyed this game for the last decade or so, but it does need a serious overhaul. Tactics have to matter again!