To cheat or not to cheat? That is the question.

[triggerluke]

Hey guys,

Just a quick poll to see how many players cheat by using programs like FMRTE, Genie Scout etc.

Feel free to add comments or your views.

[Cougar2010]

Never, tried it once several versions ago and it ruined the save for me.

However I do know that some people use FMRTE to do things that I wouldn't consider to be cheating. eg altering a leagues reputation if the teams are doing well in continental competitions.

[Tomer]

No. I tried one once on FM09 and I never played that save again because it ruined it for me

[Hershie]

I have used Genie and FMRTE for scouting in the past, as well as for adding rivals and legends/icons occasionally.

[edgar555]

Never have. Never will.

[baker.simon]

Using these editors isn't cheating BTW.

I have never and never will use them. The only justification i could use it for is for what Hershie said about adding rivalries over time.

[HotshotUK]

TO Cheat? Nahhh it take the enjoyment out of the game as I did rather finished the game without the Cheat to prove that I can do it!

[CooCooKaJoo]

only things ive done on fmrte is give my hometown club worthing in ismithian premier a sugar daddy, and use it to see who has good PAs

i dont call that cheating tbh.

[stevio11]

Editors are cheating as they show you the CA an PA of players rather than you making your own mind up off the scouts report and training them properly.

[townley12inch]

i cheated before and it ruined the game for me stopped playin for a while and i came back and didnt use any editors and got my lvoe for the game back

checking PA's is one of the worst ways to cheat it really ruins the game in my opinion last year i became obsessed with it and it really takes away from the game. what real football manager has access to a players exact potential in number form?

[RBF652]

Never have. Never will.

I agree with the above

[triggerluke]

I have used Genie and FMRTE for scouting in the past, as well as for adding rivals and legends/icons occasionally.

I initially only wanted to use Genie for finding the best newgens, but this evolved into using it for almost every purchase because I would know what fee I'd have to offer a club for a player.

No. I tried one once on FM09 and I never played that save again because it ruined it for me

I know exactly what you mean Tomer. Unfortunately I have used it a few times on FM10 and it has completely taken the fun out of the game for me because I rarely play FM10 now. I've been playing FM since it was CM on the Commodore Amiga and I would have many fights with the missus about how many hours I wasted on say FM08. Now I only play FM10 against mates (I don't cheat in these games) because playing a 20 season game by myself is just not fun when I can manipulate the game so I have the best players.

Using these editors isn't cheating BTW.

I have never and never will use them. The only justification i could use it for is for what Hershie said about adding rivalries over time.

I disagree Simon. I have used Genie Scout and FMRTE to scout for newgens and also purchase original players, but for me using these programs is just the same as saving before a big game and then quitting FM, loading that saved game and playing it again until you win. Whichever way you cut it, you're doing something to the game which was not built into the original game by SI.

At the end of the day though, it is just a game and people should play it however they want to. As long as it brings you pleasure then that is all that matters.

[baker.simon]

Editors are cheating as they show you the CA an PA of players rather than you making your own mind up off the scouts report and training them properly.

People who use editors, who exactly are they cheating?

Dont get me wrong, i've never used them. But is it really cheating if they are only altering their own game? I mean, it would be different if they used the editor whilst plaing against someone else but as they aren't then it can hardly be called cheating.

[Dicko99]

Using these editors isn't cheating BTW.

meh.... what is it then?

[baker.simon]

I disagree Simon. I have used Genie Scout and FMRTE to scout for newgens and also purchase original players, but for me using these programs is just the same as saving before a big game and then quitting FM, loading that saved game and playing it again until you win. Whichever way you cut it, you're doing something to the game which was not built into the original game by SI.

Thats fair enough and i understand. One question though: I managed Gateshead up the leagues in 09. They start off with local and divisional rivals Blyth Spartans as the only team in their rivals list. Having got them to the premier league, geographically and divisionally new rival would form between Gateshead, Newcastle, Sunderland, maybe even Middlesborough. Thats what i meant about adding the rivalries. As i say, its something ive never done but that the only justification i could use it for.

[baker.simon]

meh.... what is it then?

Read post #13.

[stevvy]

Never used them, part of the challenge is not knowing what'll happen, how players will develop, finding young gems and training them up etc.

[robbert_o154]

People who use editors, who exactly are they cheating?

Dont get me wrong, i've never used them. But is it really cheating if they are only altering their own game? I mean, it would be different if they used the editor whilst plaing against someone else but as they aren't then it can hardly be called cheating.

I think you raise an interesting point here. Frankly, even if these people are only cheating themselves, it's still cheating as far as I'm concerned, but I can see what you mean.

[triggerluke]

Thats fair enough and i understand. One question though: I managed Gateshead up the leagues in 09. They start off with local and divisional rivals Blyth Spartans as the only team in their rivals list. Having got them to the premier league, geographically and divisionally new rival would form between Gateshead, Newcastle, Sunderland, maybe even Middlesborough. Thats what i meant about adding the rivalries. As i say, its something ive never done but that the only justification i could use it for.

I think using FMRTE to add a bit of realism to the game would not be considered cheating but using it to add transfers funds, make unhappy players happy again, remove injuries, increase team reputation etc etc can only be classed as cheating in my opinion. I guess that's what it all comes down to really, it's a matter of opinion and for me I have only cheated myself because I no longer get any fun from the game.

You can compare it real life football in a way. If you played in a match, gave everything you had and played within the rules then I'm sure you'd feel very happy. Consider playing that match again but this time you dived in the box, won a penalty and subsequently won the the match. Would you feel the same satisfaction knowing that you won because you were the best or won because you cheated?

[baker.simon]

I think using FMRTE to add a bit of realism to the game would not be considered cheating but using it to add transfers funds, make unhappy players happy again, remove injuries, increase team reputation etc etc can only be classed as cheating in my opinion. I guess that's what it all comes down to really, it's a matter of opinion and for me I have only cheated myself because I no longer get any fun from the game.

You can compare it real life football in a way. If you played in a match, gave everything you had and played within the rules then I'm sure you'd feel very happy. Consider playing that match again but this time you dived in the box, won a penalty and subsequently won the the match. Would you feel the same satisfaction knowing that you won because you were the best or won because you cheated?

Ask Robbie Keane or Thierry Henry, or the French population who are so unhappy with Henry's cheating yet don't clamour for anything to get done about it. Or Robbie Keane, who with his team put in maximum effort for now very little reward.

[Riffraff]

I use FMRTE quite often, to see asking prices - don't like to spend weeks on pointless negotiations.

[ArsenalFan7]

I use it on some saves but I don't use it on most of my saves.. Much funner when I play without them.. Plus anyway Genie Scout doesn't work on 10.2

[Ccllnply2]

I use Genie Scout. The only time I don't use it is if I'm starting a new game and planning to play it for a while. Some times, I will start a game with Genie Scout and I will end up playing it for ages, then I usually just use Genie Scout to find staff,

I do know what people mean about it ruining the game though, sometimes you get so caught up in PA's and CA's that you don't realise certain players might be better for your team because they are good in some attributes

[tak]

I always use FMRTE to add realism. For example I asked if I think player A (19 years old) is playing to his full potential. I say, no he has a lot to give. He gets upset. Now, in real life you could talk to him and say, I really think you will become a star, you have fantastic potential, don't get upset, and give him a hug. Since I can't do that in FM I use FMRTE, his morale goes 20 and we are all happy.

[Neji]

Used to when I was younger but it really does sap the enjoyment out of a game. I still sometimes have games where I use editors to mess around with stuff - although that hasn't happened much with FM09 and FM10. In my proper games though, I keep away from the editors.

[triggerluke]

Ask Robbie Keane or Thierry Henry, or the French population who are so unhappy with Henry's cheating yet don't clamour for anything to get done about it. Or Robbie Keane, who with his team put in maximum effort for now very little reward.

My point exactly. Not to divert from the original topic but professional football has very much become a win at all costs game now and I'm sure a lot of players would be happy to win by cheating if they knew they would get away with it.

Maybe that's the thing because someone playing FM can get away with it.

How would feel if you played an FM game with a mate and after a few seasons in the game you caught him using Genie Scout to find the best newgens?

[ldktalin]

I've used FMRTE to change kit design between seasons, change the names of the players I didn't like, add people/clubs likes/dislikes, morale tweaks. Occasionally I re-distribute attribute points to better suit a player's position.

[gunner86]

Why bother buying the game if you're not going to play it for yourself?

[Chelsea football club]

never have and do not think I will ever try it.

[Ccllnply2]

Why bother buying the game if you're not going to play it for yourself?

Thats a stupid question don't you think? Surely if you buy the game, you can play it however you want

[CaptainPlanet]

Does putting myself on the favoured personnel list after 20 years of winning trophies, because the game is too useless to recognise my achievements, count as cheating?

[jackripper]

^^^ WHS and to add my son in to follow his career without ever signing him regardless how good he comes

[7zige]

I use it until 10.3 comes out and I'll probably start a new save without using it

[kilik]

I used genie scout on fm 09 and it ruined the game for me tbh. I couldnt stop using it and it just made FM too easy and boring. I dont use any chaet programs anymore

[JoeLatics]

Not on FM10.

[muncherdave]

Used to use FMM with FM08 and backwards, but to me it leads to such a short lifespan for your game, got bored far too quickly and takes a lot of the fun out. The detail of the new scouting that came about helped me see the light too, as well as the fact they stopped making FMM anyway.

[Oypus]

Cheating is a strong word. I think cheating would be heavily editing players stats, not just looking at CA/PA or using Genie scout to find players.

[muncherdave]

Using tools that aren't even in the game for you to use is definitely cheating in my book. End of the day though cheating is subjective so it's a bit pointless arguing what is and isn't, that's just my opinion. Just treat the question posed as: 'do you use third party tools or abuse the data editor to benefit you in the game?'

[Robin_ellis_19]

it spoils the game.

[Smikis]

i use for scouting.. its not cheating when you employ 20 scouts and they cant find anything.. not to mention terrible rating system in fm10 ,

its bit of cheating when ur not employing those scouts ( well after few saves with 20 scouts finding nothing you just start skipping it )

there is nothing more ******** than promising regen is rated as 2.5 potential.. while playing as one of strongest clubs.. in world , werent it for genie scout i wouldnt ever signed him..

it doest matter than he will reach at least 180 ca.. and thatsabout same as de rossi who is ranked 4.5-5 stars.. sure.. 2.5 potential.. i could go on and on how rating system is bad..

( and i know stars drops as club gets better.. but it never scales apart that.. when 150 ca regen was 5 star for championship team im fine..

when 199 pa regen with good hiden stats is rated 3.5... ( i wouldnt put 3.5 playing in my starting team ) its nothing but ********

[Misodoctakleidist]

What's the point of playing FM if you're just going to cheat? It's like filling in a crossword puzzle whilst reading the answers sheet.

Besides, I don't see the point of looking up a player's PA when your scouts can pretty much do this already.

[muncherdave]

i use for scouting.. its not cheating when you employ 20 scouts and they cant find anything.. not to mention terrible rating system in fm10 ,

its bit of cheating when ur not employing those scouts ( well after few saves with 20 scouts finding nothing you just start skipping it )

there is nothing more ******** than promising regen is rated as 2.5 potential.. while playing as one of strongest clubs.. in world , werent it for genie scout i wouldnt ever signed him..

it doest matter than he will reach at least 180 ca.. and thatsabout same as de rossi who is ranked 4.5-5 stars.. sure.. 2.5 potential.. i could go on and on how rating system is bad..

( and i know stars drops as club gets better.. but it never scales apart that.. when 150 ca regen was 5 star for championship team im fine..

when 199 pa regen with good hiden stats is rated 3.5... ( i wouldnt put 3.5 playing in my starting team ) its nothing but ********

It's a good point, because even though it's now been seperated a bit further with half stars out of 5 instead of full stars out of 7 it still doesn't feel like enough when you are at a big club and your scouts barely find a player they'd call good anymore.

[Misodoctakleidist]

@muncherdave

Why not just judge players the way real managers do? Alex Ferguson doesn't get to have access to some hidden potential attribute if he asks Mike Phelan to compile a report on a player.

[muncherdave]

@muncherdave

Why not just judge players the way real managers do? Alex Ferguson doesn't get to have access to some hidden potential attribute if he asks Mike Phelan to compile a report on a player.

What do you mean, judge them how then? I don't have access to a hidden potential attribute either, I just go by what the scout says. My point is though, it's not really realistic that they rarely get excited by anyone at a big club and you end up having to decide between 10 potentially 'fairly good' players

[Misodoctakleidist]

It's not realistic that scouts have access to PA full stop.

[muncherdave]

Of course not, but how else can they form an 'opinion' on the players they are told to scout?

[Misodoctakleidist]

They could look at the player's ability and his age and then extrapolate. Which is what they should do in my opinion.

[Blacksquare]

The question actually is. Does it matter? People get so enraged over this issue. As long as you don't use it online or as long as everyone uses it online. W/e rules you set.

But the scouting system for this game really is messed up. Some of the top players in the world have 2 or 2.5 stars. I'm like wth. The scouting system and scouting rating system in this game is way off. How is a world player of the year only rated as a 2 or 2.5 stars? This game is funky. It forces me to tend to having to wait or gamble to see if they really are a mere 2.5 or actually better.

[muncherdave]

It has been suggested before. Regardless, I am talking about tweaking the scouts expectations a tad for top clubs or perhaps creating a few more notches to differentiate between players, while you are talking about changing the entire CA-PA system as we know it!

[Blacksquare]

For those that don't use scouting what so ever. Then shouldn't you also mask player attributes? Now i wonder how many of you do that.