Our beloved FM's got some real competition now?

check out the match engine?

http://gamereactor.co.uk/grtv/?id=4210

It still remains to be seen as to whether CM can actually catch up with FM but this looks very impressive indeed. It'll be interesting to see how the whole game plays...but yes, from that it looks like it has made giant leaps.

the match engine looks real smooth. cant wait to watch my game after fm's disaster. lol 27seasons of disaster haha.

Liking the setpiece creator...are you watching, SI?

now thats entertaining training.

yyyyep, that set-piece editor looks the biz.

Match engine is looking good, though looked a bit treacle-like, but nice to look at. Certainly looks like they have much more in the way of animations than in the current FM match-engine.

Quite liked the drills as well... what with that and the set-piece editor, you can see how you can have a greater influence on how your team play, though sounded a bit complex with the effect on player attributes.

I just hope SI have some innovations in mind for FM10, and are still listening when it comes to feedback on the match engine.

After watching that trailer, the similar features on the current FM certainly look and feel very archaic.

Did anyone watch the first part of that presentation where they talk about how they improved the relay of news and other info to the manager? Some great ideas there too and something that FM could certainly improve upon as well.

It looks very impressive and it's a good achievement for CM, but FM is still better atm but the CM match egine is great in my opinion.

After watching that trailer, the similar features on the current FM certainly look and feel very archaic.

Did anyone watch the first part of that presentation where they talk about how they improved the relay of news and other info to the manager? Some great ideas there too and something that FM could certainly improve upon as well.

I watched the other part of the presentation and was also impressed with news relay and other manager info especially the implementation of choosing what to have in your news feed like job vacanies etc. Too many times on FM job vacancies have arisen without me knowing and before i know it they are gone again. Only if i check myself do i know about vacancies. A great feature even if, in my opinion, it did look a bit gimmicky on certain screens. The thing i like on FM is the cleanliness of the interface and on some screens on CM as shown in that presentation, it did look at bit too much like fifa manager. My own personal preference though.

looks much better than fm and i wonder if theyl have as many bugs

Probably will but still very impressive.

Might actually be worth a look...

Im not sure if the user interface is too cluttered, it still looks very impressive though.

Wow, it really looks impressive, I think it'll be worth the look.

It'll be interesting to see the demo.

Some interesting features there but I would imagine that the grind involved to perfectly prepare for the next match would be immense, and then if the Match Engine is inferior it would all be for nothing.

Plus I thought all those training routines was the reason Managers hired Coaches.

It looks slick, detailed and well presented but very gimmicky and I would imagine that those features would be fun for the first few days and then ignored by the majority of players for the majority of their playing time.

Some interesting features there but I would imagine that the grind involved to perfectly prepare for the next match would be immense, and then if the Match Engine is inferior it would all be for nothing.

Plus I thought all those training routines was the reason Managers hired Coaches.

It looks slick, detailed and well presented but very gimmicky and I would imagine that those features would be fun for the first few days and then ignored by the majority of players for the majority of their playing time.

This is what worries me most about the game. I mean, it would appear that, to get the most out of your players, you'd have to go through those drills and practices at least once in between each match, if not every day. That would be a little too much realism...

And if the ME mechanics (not the 3D bit, but the underlying "guts") don't have what it takes, it'll all be a waste, anyway...

Drills will get very boring very quickly. They also sound like an exploit that will get attributes up too quickly. Just get your strikers to do 5 different shooting drills 20 times. Is that realistic?

Set pieces, again, there will be exploits.

He admits that the ME is half finished. It may be animated, but what's important is what's behind that.

Miles is a better public speaker than Roy though.

On the set pieces maker his players were all running off the pitch. So many places to have stupid little bugs it would seem.

some nice features but looks like it would take about 6 months to do a season

Drills will get very boring very quickly. They also sound like an exploit that will get attributes up too quickly. Just get your strikers to do 5 different shooting drills 20 times. Is that realistic?

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He also says that if you stop training them, they'll drop back down...seems more like picking up a power-boost in a side-scrolling Nintendo game, except it's always there to be picked up. And who wouldn't, to get their players playing the best they can possibly play? And therein lies the rub, and the boredom.

also after afew weeks of the games release we will be able to download a set piece that ends up with one playing scoring 50 goals a season

also after afew weeks of the games release we will be able to download a set piece that ends up with one playing scoring 50 goals a season

Someone like a centre back perhaps?

The features look great. This is what I want from FM now: a set piece editor and more in-depth training. Along with less vague tactics ofcourse...

He also says that if you stop training them, they'll drop back down...seems more like picking up a power-boost in a side-scrolling Nintendo game, except it's always there to be picked up. And who wouldn't, to get their players playing the best they can possibly play? And therein lies the rub, and the boredom.

Exactly. As Amaroq says, there always needs to be a plus and a minus.

Might be FM2009 beater, but let's see what FM2010's like first, as that's what will be sold against it for the most part of the year...

For the first time ever, I'm tempted to check CM out.

I really don't like the whole "35% to get a +2 to finishing" stuff, it feels very RPG-like and nothing to do with football. I'm not sure I like the drills either. It's a nice idea, but it will get very boring very quickly watching robinho take 20 shots at goal, whether these can be automated and done in the background (e.g. set robinho to do 20 shots a week, which you don't have to watch), I don't know.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for people to find set piece routines that guarantee goals everytime, especially given how it easy it has been to find them with FMs very limited set of options (corner cheat etc).

We didn't see that much of the match engine, but it just felt a bit wrong to me. I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but the players never seemed quite in control of the ball and they seemed to move quite strangely.

Firstly, I'm impressed with what I'm seeing.

Secondly, this is fantastic news for us. Everyone works best when they are being pushed, and tends to lose some of that edge when they are too far ahead. Just as in FM, once 5-0 up your strikers stop pushing for that 6th, SI got too far ahead of the crowd. Their best years were back when USM was pushing FM hard, and I loved having both games to sate my appetite for football management. So yeah, hopefully this will provide a genuine alternative to Football Manager, and result in a better FM10/11/12 than we could have otherwise expected.

Thirdly:

He also says that if you stop training them, they'll drop back down...seems more like picking up a power-boost in a side-scrolling Nintendo game, except it's always there to be picked up. And who wouldn't, to get their players playing the best they can possibly play? And therein lies the rub, and the boredom.

Training in Football Manager works like this too. If you stop training, of course your players stats drop. However, in FM their "real score" would be what their attributes are with medium training on everything, with a -2 for being on no training and a +2 for being on heavy training, to give a rough example. In CM, it will be 0 for no training, 2 for medium, 4 for heavy, etc. The "minus" in putting your strikers on all out attacking training is that their defensive scores miss out on the plusses that they could otherwise have had. Opportunity cost. And as to why would the slowly increase / sharply drop come into effect? Simple. Before a heavy knockout cup schedule I would train penalties quite heavily. In September, I wouldn't.

Keep in mind it's an "Alpha Build" we saw. This game has a lot of refinement left, and won't be released anytime soon...

We didn't see that much of the match engine, but it just felt a bit wrong to me. I can't quite put my finger on what it was, but the players never seemed quite in control of the ball and they seemed to move quite strangely.

Which is why we can't really judge it until the demo.

Look how much our ME has improved since the early views, beta, first pathces until now. Theirs can improve just as much.

this was published in march....so the demo/game might be out quite soon..

that looks pretty special

Keep in mind it's an "Alpha Build" we saw. This game has a lot of refinement left, and won't be released anytime soon...

The video's from March, and according to Amazon, it's being released on July 3rd.

But this isn't management game. Its a training game.

Should be called Championship Coaching 2009

Actually the match engine is pretty ****. 7:18 you will see two players running off the pitch because there were told to drag the defenders wide and away from goal. That is pretty poor programming.

I like the idea of seeing how much your training effects which stats. Really like it. Definitely will check out the demo. But I'm not sure on buying it.

But this isn't management game. Its a training game.

Should be called Championship Coaching 2009

Managers often only spend 90 minutes on the sidelines a week. Most of the time they'll be at the training grounds.

Putting my CB forward on free kicks sounds like a reasonable decision, but I get really frustrated when my FK taker taps it to my CB who then proceeds to take a long shot (despite set on rarely). So I would like at least a few more options when setting up my freekicks in FM. However, the large flexibility of CM's freekick setup might mean it can be abused with the AI unable to adapt.

Of course too much realism is never good, next we might find ourselves dealing with the intricacies of paperwork. However, training ground is one thing that I feel should be included.

agree . the demo will be worth a pop. but im sure fm will improve aswell

Managers often only spend 90 minutes on the sidelines a week. Most of the time they'll be at the training grounds.

Putting my CB forward on free kicks sounds like a reasonable decision, but I get really frustrated when my FK taker taps it to my CB who then proceeds to take a long shot (despite set on rarely). So I would like at least a few more options when setting up my freekicks in FM. However, the large flexibility of CM's freekick setup might mean it can be abused with the AI unable to adapt.

Of course too much realism is never good, next we might find ourselves dealing with the intricacies of paperwork. However, training ground is one thing that I feel should be included.

I disagree. Managers don't spend all their time coaching at all. Thats the coaches job, the tacticians job. Mangers these days if anything, watch videos of the teams, plan routines, tactics to deal with the opposition. Not spend hours creating creative set plays.

During a standard freekick.

Defending team - Wall (As sorted by keeper), a few players dotted about, making other players.

Attacking team, dotting players about, maybe 1 going wide eitherside incase the ball goes wide. Freekicker - shoots ball at goal or if there is something on, cross the ball into area.

Freekicks isn't scored by creative setplays. Its to do with how good a player can strike a ball that beats the wall and keeper. So managers would ask coaches to develop how a player strikes a ball.

FM has ways of getting a boost to your players every week before a match

it's called press conferences, and we know how long the excitement for that lasted.

Though the graphics seems to be quite good, i still feel it's a case of Fifa man for GFX, CM for backstage work, and FM for gameplay. And it doesn't seem like changing soon

it would be nice to see what one of the mods think of this and a statement from our boys

Looks really good, and set-piece creator! \o/

that looks really, really good enough to persuade me to buy the game! i just hope SI are having a good hard look at the competition this year and pull their finger out. im sure they will and really hope so! i also agree with the fact that SI need to bring in features from FIFA manager and CM to drastically improve the game and keep it as the leader in the market. but like what Nadessico said, it probably wont happen for quite a while

Competition make progress.

It has been too long waiting to happen.

This looks really good, I will be checking the demo out for sure.

hmm looks very good. also looks like a full-time job though... id hate to think i could be tempted away from FM

I remember when I first joined the community back in January there was a big bruhaha about the same video.

Well for a game that has its release date been repeatedly been put back by months, was originally new year, then April now July, I wouldnt be surprised if Eidos kick it back again. Also this repeated delaying of the release suggests to me some serious problems with the game that Eidos don't want to tell anyone about.

I disagree. Managers don't spend all their time coaching at all. Thats the coaches job, the tacticians job. Mangers these days if anything, watch videos of the teams, plan routines, tactics to deal with the opposition. Not spend hours creating creative set plays.

During a standard freekick.

Defending team - Wall (As sorted by keeper), a few players dotted about, making other players.

Attacking team, dotting players about, maybe 1 going wide eitherside incase the ball goes wide. Freekicker - shoots ball at goal or if there is something on, cross the ball into area.

Freekicks isn't scored by creative setplays. Its to do with how good a player can strike a ball that beats the wall and keeper. So managers would ask coaches to develop how a player strikes a ball.

Ferguson had Queiroz and a huge team of coaches and scouts. Queiroz had a huge role in Man Utd's successful tactics.

Mourinho had Steve Clarke and a huge team of coaches and scouts. Those scouts do a mighty lot of video watching and the coaches do a mighty lot of physical and technique training. However, tactical plays are usually by the manager.

But what about the poor bloke down in Conference South? Is it his job to analyze opponents only? I can assure you he plays a huge part for keeping the players in top physical condition as well as setting up training drills. Only at the top level do you have coaches who takes care of set piece training rather than managers themselves. Quite simply, managers play the DUAL ROLE AS COACHES. Often top level managers bring a team a coaches along with him to a new team, but how often do you hear about a coach who is a "set-play specialist".

A coach like Arsene Wenger puts a lot of focus on drills and possession play down at his training ground at Hertfordshire. I think CM has tried to represent this with the example in the video of Robinho collecting the ball and shooting.

As the video said, a huge percent of goals are scored from set pieces either directly (in which a set piece creator would have little impact) or as an indirect consequence. Look how many set pieces Chelsea conceded when Scolari was in charge. It was such a big problem that the media queried him on it. What about Guus Hiddink?

The general positive reception of FM players to these features shows that they will like something like this to be implemented in the future. However, FM also shouldn't add it in until they have got the feature nailed down. Yet you are arguing against the concept of managers influencing set plays which no one else in the thread is doing.

Had another look through the video and the first half is just a rip-off of FM09 with added grind, while the second half is a gorgeous looking and completely broken match engine.

It looks like their entire business plan is to spend development resources on presentation and "gameplay" features that are vocally asked for amongst fans of both titles, but have not been given any consideration as to regular gameplay value. I sincerely doubt that those that prefer CM over FM are going to sit down and develop set peices and training drills for every single opponent. Those that do, and kudos to them, will invariably find that gameplay balance and AI coding was funded from the same finite budget that funded 450 player animations, complex training scenarios, an ultra sleek User Interface, and an entire ingame video editing studio.

Liking the setpiece creator...are you watching, SI?

Can't agree more, it looks great.

Some very nice features there.