Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[jujigatame]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

Thanks for the update, and I generally agree about the 2 issues you addressed. My only real complaint about ball physics (which I think are generally solid) is that a curved ball continues to curve in the same arc once it hits the ground. Shouldn't it straighten once it lands? Maybe I'm wrong on this one but it does look a little strange.

[edgar555]

Glad to see PaulC update us again. I'm sure his candid post won't appease some but you gotta give him credit as there's no obligation for him to tell us what we already knew; ie 'we're working on an update'

[milnerpoint]

Cue the vitirol.

[rooneyviet]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

thanks for your status update. still waiting. hope it will fix all the problems

[Kriss]

As my favourite albums were all made in the 60's I take issue with his analogy

[llama3]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

the update is nice for everyone to see - nice touch

[LaytonBhoy]

PaulC:

An answer that will not satisfy everyone, but in terms of what you've said about the 2012 ME, which I am playing on just now as I await this patch, you are correct; the new one is vastly superior, and any step to revert to 2012 would be a step backwards so enormous I am delighted you're not even seriously considering it.

Get this one right and it will be the basis for career games we'll look back on with great and fond memories in years to come. The ball physics and other aspects are a quantum leap from 2012.

[jasse]

cheers for the update Paul have been missing that so it is good to hear from you again.

[BiggusD]

Handbags ladies, we're straying off topic here.

There's no value in dissecting what you did or didn't mean! You wrote it, some pounced on it, you retracted it, there's no need for subsequent mud-slinging.

The pertinent point was the discussion about whether roles and duties appear to be merging, and what possible elements relating to the ME may or may not contribute to that apparent merging!

I don't really care about such things as "roles and duties". If I was asked "where do you, BiggusD, want your winger to move off the ball?" I would answer "where there is space, obviously". "And where do you want him to pass or cross?" "wherever another player has found or created space, obviously". "How tight do you want your players to mark the opponents, BiggusD?" "As tight as is necessary to prevent them from turning around and advance, obviously". "When/where do you want your players to start closing down an opponent advancing with the ball?" "Right in front of the first line of defense as soon as we have lost possession, obviously".

But I'm not allowed to build a tactic in this manner because the consensus is that a good manager in real life needs to tell his players all of the above from the sideline every match, because the players don't know how to play football and all tactics are specialized tools.

[Kuldaniss]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

Thank you very, very much. This is what I`m always looking for, hearing things from you guys so we know the progress. This way I`m pretty sure everybody just calms a little bit more, and also kinda makes me feel closer to SI. Really hope you find that balance soon, if you don't, don`t release anything until everything is ready. Just like a bunch of people said, this ME may be "broken" right now, but with a little touches here and there it can become close to perfect. That's the difference between this ME and the FM2012 ME.

[joshua-soul]

Thanks for an update on the progress with the game Paul.

There is always a lot of criticism from gamers as each patch is released. I know they all mean well and their input is valued and will undoubtedly help in the progression of the match engine. However I wanted to post something positive and let you know that I am extremely happy with the current match engine and although I really liked FM 2012 I have to say that I am really happy with 2013 and understand the direction the game is taking for the better. Balls hitting the woodwork are my main gripe just now. Seems to be quite a lot of them, but for now other than that i am extremely happy with FM 2013. As a full package it is a fantastic game.

I am sure that there a many more who think in the same vein. Generally speaking they will not comment if they are happy as they just get on with enjoying the game.

[Bobble2002]

I decided to have another go at Fm 13.

After 16 games i am done with it until something is done about the ridiculous scoring system

Played 16 and conceded 19 goals which is fair enough its just the manner of the way they were conceded

8 scored from my defence refusing to defend balls to the far post where they drop over the defender for the attacker to volley home from a really tight angle

6 from free kicks from a wide position where my defence and goalie stand and admire the opposition running in to have a free header

1 where their defender kicked a ball along the floor from his own half which rolled past the goalie and went in without him trying to save it until after it had passed him

2 penalties ( fair enough)

2 scored from their players on chances you would expect to see goals scored .

I have also had my team score 2 ludicrous goals from my own half

one the defender kicked the ball forward which then rolled three quarters of the pitch before their goalie alledgedly kicked it into his own net (own goal )

The other my goalie took a free kick from the edge of his box which again travelled the length of the pitch and went in

Whilst i would expect goals to be scored from free kicks and far post balls the percentage is way too high

[DAVE82]

Much appreciated update Paul.

[Sussex Hammer]

I don't really care about such things as "roles and duties". If I was asked "where do you, BiggusD, want your winger to move off the ball?" I would answer "where there is space, obviously". "And where do you want him to pass or cross?" "wherever another player has found or created space, obviously". "How tight do you want your players to mark the opponents, BiggusD?" "As tight as is necessary to prevent them from turning around and advance, obviously". "When/where do you want your players to start closing down an opponent advancing with the ball?" "Right in front of the first line of defense as soon as we have lost possession, obviously".

But I'm not allowed to build a tactic in this manner because the consensus is that a good manager in real life needs to tell his players all of the above from the sideline every match, because the players don't know how to play football and all tactics are specialized tools.

I agree with a lot of this TBH. I know FM is "Football Manager" but I still think it's gone a little far to being purely "Football Manager" and players seem to be a robotic entity now seemingly controlled by every mortal thing we do without being able to think for themselves. Even silly things I have in the game like two of my players finding it difficult to motivate themselves to play for my Captain Kevin Nolan seems to make life difficult especially considering how difficult it is anyway to get a captain with an influence stat of 18 and the fact that there is no option for me to tell them to grow up!!

Take Man United. Now if you play as Man United 9 times out of 10 against lesser opposition you should be able to win playing 4-4-2 because you have the players. Not every time as real life shows but you should have a good chance because your players are better and make decisions themselves. Do we really think Fergie told Giggs to launch that long ball forward to Van Persie on Sunday? Do we really think that Fergie told Van Persie how to control it and how to shoot? In the same game do we really think Big Sam told Joe Cole to "cut inside" and "cross from deep" to James Collins for both goals? No..... They are off the cuff decisions made by in those cases by good players as depending on the in game situation at the time. Granted most players wouldn't have been able to play that pass or control and finish, or even make that decision, but good or bad all players make decisions for the entire 90 minutes.

I know wwfan probably disagrees with me but after playing and managing in football for years I am a great believer that "all" players should try everything and probably have to try everything in a game because situations in a game call for that. Therefore in FM for years I am a great believer in having most settings on "mixed". I played as a striker but I am no more than 5 foot 5 but that didn't mean I didn't hold the ball up once in a while or attempt to win a header, Andy Carroll I wasn't but at the same time I didn't look to chase through balls off the shoulder of the defender "all the time" either, I just adjusted my decisions and way of playing depending on how our attack was going. And when I was out wide it was to find space and not a pre conceived idea taught by my manager and if I did cross the ball it was when I got a chance, I certainly didn't delay because I had been instructed to only cross from the byline!! Not every player can do everything and very few can do everything well but if you limit a player to only "pass short" or "hug the touchline" you are going to have problems when something occurs in opposition "to his instructions".

Players do have brains (footballing brains at least) and I just think with all these settings and roles now in the game we are literally making it a game of "Battle of the Managers" rather than managing a football team and as most managers will freely admit "not being able to influence the result too much once your players cross that white line".

[Svenc]

I think there is a point in there: FM is catering to a more hands-on managerial approach -- but likewise, if all the tactical decisions to make in the game were on the same general level BiggusD is suggesting, FIFA Manager players would laugh their butts off (even though but the most shallow of their increasingly detailed team and player instructions aren't lost in translation on their way to the horrible pitch engine). Also, if players were actually this robotic and relied so much on your instructions as is suggested, which then they would follow to a T, I think tons more people would deeply struggle with the game. You are able to do well with fairly basic setups, as long as they are sound, and have always been able to do so. That is because there is you, and then are your player's decisions.

All I did on during my first FM seasons was tweaking the global mentality, passing and tempo settings a little, all long since extinct, and as long as I had a decent squad available and didn't give them instructions that would make them all sit back to invite pressure, spray them out all over the pitch so that they couldn't communicate or just bomb the opponent's box with six players and not a tiny bit of space in sight, they performed to expectations or thereabouts. It is both a bit ironic and inevitable at the same time that the TC later introduced into the game to make more in-depth tactical decisions more accessible and less abstract and decidedly less trial and error is now perceived as a massive shift in development. To a point it caused a shift, as the AI certainly has a far wider scope and nuanced options it utlizes during a match. Who doesn't remember the stallwart 4-2-4 formations it applied by default in desperate attempts to overrun the player and snatch a late equalizer? The time-wasting and endless passing around the back it often would apply 30 minutes into a game to see it out?

However, I don't think that shift is overall the case. FM's match sim is still no less or more about players as it has ever has been - that the movement has always been into the manager's hands to a large degree (PPMs influencing aside), has always been the case. With the arrows of old, arguably much more so, in much less realistic ways. However, as before, each of them players benefits from someone who fields them with a halfway sound logics attached. :-)

PS: If somebody can tell a big difference between teams aggressively closing down and those meant to back off, please feel free to tell me what telltale signs they are actually looking for. I am desperate. :-)

[jasse]

This is where we are at:

Thanks all,

Paul

Kriss, see what I mean? this wasnt so hard... and we are all cozy here now

[stevereay]

This is where we are at:I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.Sorry I cant be more specific!Thanks all,Paul

Exactly what I was looking for while waiting on the patch. Some issues are fixed but have created some knock on effects which need sorting. Now we know why the patch is taking a while and how Paul and his team are looking to perfect it.Hopefully we get a few more of these updates while waiting. Much appreciated

[RTHerringbone]

However, I don't think that shift is overall the case. FM's match sim is still no less or more about players as it has ever has been - that the movement has always been into the manager's hands to a large degree (PPMs influencing aside), has always been the case. With the arrows of old, arguably much more so, in much less realistic ways. However, as before, each of them players benefits from someone who fields them with a halfway sound logics attached. :-)

Agree with this, but also absolutely understand the positioning of BiggusD and Sussex Hammer.

My take is that there has to be a level of tactical instruction, and I also feel that the move to Tactics Creator and Shouts from Classic Tactics is more intuitive, less ambiguous, and feels more human.

Sussex Hammer shares my broader hypothesis that (paraphrasing) "big teams should beat small teams more often than not". This is true in real life, and in FM.

The examples of Joe Cole vs. Man U are 100% valid and are replicated in FM with PPMs and player intelligence (Joe Cole maybe not a good example!) via attributes.

Is player intelligence and player individuality sufficiently simulated in FM? I don't know, but the risk is that if the framework reverses from tactical framework first, player intelligence / PPMs second, then that for me loses the essence of CM / FM.

BiggusD and Sussex Hammer aren't saying they just want to choose a formation and players and let nature takes it's course. I share the sentiment but can't put into words what it is they are after. Is it fun?

There is a real balancing act between micro-management and less involved management, and I think FM manages to tread that line well.

[lunarsea]

This is where we are at:

Paul

Hi Paul,

Thank you for updating us on the status of the patch.

You mentioned a couple of the issues you were dealing with but I was wondering if you have decided to deal with any of the following as well (or in fact, whether SI see any of the following as issues at all):

- Poor pass choice. This manifests most clearly in attack in the LACK of through balls but also in very odd choices that the AI will make (i.e. the high level of back-passes when there are much better passing options available, even passing into the back of another player often when there is a better choice)

- the lack of dribbling and attacking play from the centre of the pitch compared to the wings. Comparative to the wingers, central midfielders and strikers seem to hardly make as many runs with the ball or attacking play.

- the various problems with fullbacks - i.e. almost never blocking or cutting out crosses (does this come under improving defending against wingers?), and their lack of spacial awareness (in defence, being unable to stay in their proper zonal area when they venture half-way across or up the pitch and in attack where they dribble half-way across the pitch with the ball)

And most importantly I suppose, the lack of ability of one's tactics to impact player decisions effectively. No matter what tactics, player roles & slider selections we painstakingly make, players invariably seem to make their own decision in FM13, rather than what they have been instructed to do. And with the ME in its current form, these decisions are more often than not poor ones.

Anyway, looking forward to the update when it arrives. I hope that some or all of the above issues are also being looked at as well, as they seem to have been raised quite a lot in this thread.

[dazbowski]

Cue the vitirol.

And you saying that really helps doesn't it? You don't see it but you're just as bad if not worse.

[andoR]

It's the same thing every year. Everyone thinks there are too many goals in matches (which I don't get, because in my matches it's pretty realistic), and then they update it in the total opposite direction.

Now my team has 20 - 30 chances a game and I'm proud if they make 2 goals... The AI has 6 chances and makes 2 goals that are more often than not pretty strange.

I hope the new ME update comes fast and reverses this a little, because it's pretty frustrating if you can't do anything about it... Especially when you win 2-1 with France vs. American Samoa and the chances were 41-2

[Kriss]

Kriss, see what I mean? this wasnt so hard... and we are all cozy here now

In spite of him adding absolutely nothing to what I've told you

[jasse]

so true but just acknowledging... is all that I ment. funny how we had a "good" conversation around this and next thing you know Paul shows up nevertheless I really appreciate it, I really do. cheers mate

[Kriss]

so true but just acknowledging... is all that I ment. funny how we had a "good" conversation around this and next thing you know Paul shows up nevertheless I really appreciate it, I really do. cheers mate

I do point him to posts he might find of value, so it's not always coincidence that he shows up, but tbf to him he's often reading this thread soon after 0700 and late into the night.

[Herbert Fandel]

tbf to him he's often reading this thread soon after 0700 and late into the night.

Poor guy

[stevereay]

In spite of him adding absolutely nothing to what I've told you

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Hmm "it will will be out when its out and there can be no updates as it is either in progress or released" I believe was your comment Kriss. Paul has definitely add more than that

[Kriss]

Hmm "it will will be out when its out and there can be no updates as it is either in progress or released" I believe was your comment Kriss. Paul has definitely add more than that

More words to say exactly the same thing

[Kriss]

Poor guy

Nah, insomniac

[bailarinasesino]

reverting to FM 12 and set it to the final ME would be no good

but reverting to it WHILE the 13 ME becomes playable would be good, at least the game would be playable in the meantime you finish that work

there is no point on keeping a match engine with lots of better animation, ball physics and etcetera if players just keep trying to score from the moon

[Sussex Hammer]

Agree with this, but also absolutely understand the positioning of BiggusD and Sussex Hammer.

My take is that there has to be a level of tactical instruction, and I also feel that the move to Tactics Creator and Shouts from Classic Tactics is more intuitive, less ambiguous, and feels more human.

Sussex Hammer shares my broader hypothesis that (paraphrasing) "big teams should beat small teams more often than not". This is true in real life, and in FM.

The examples of Joe Cole vs. Man U are 100% valid and are replicated in FM with PPMs and player intelligence (Joe Cole maybe not a good example!) via attributes.

Is player intelligence and player individuality sufficiently simulated in FM? I don't know, but the risk is that if the framework reverses from tactical framework first, player intelligence / PPMs second, then that for me loses the essence of CM / FM.

BiggusD and Sussex Hammer aren't saying they just want to choose a formation and players and let nature takes it's course. I share the sentiment but can't put into words what it is they are after. Is it fun?

There is a real balancing act between micro-management and less involved management, and I think FM manages to tread that line well.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Certainly I am not and never have been interested in picking one formation and winning every game. Even though I still use Classic Tactics I at least have two and will sometimes tinker during the game. If I get beat I get beat but at times what bugs me is the inconsistency in the game and the lack of in game feedback which is of any real use. Perfect example in the game I am playing is that with my Away Tactic I beat Arsenal 4-1 at home and played some lovely stuff. The next week I played Man City at Home and whilst only got beat 3-0 in the stats side of things I got absolutely battered. Whereas I had good possession the week before against a good Arsenal team a week later it all fell apart and I am scratching my head because they played the same formations and I think Arsenal and Man City are similar in the game and the two teams I struggle against. The following week I beat Liverpool and then came unstuck against a Villa side who hadn't won in six weeks!!! Don't get me wrong I am not expecting to win all those games and yes it does happen IRL but it's a game and not real life so if some variables in the game just gang up against you one week which makes it impossible to win a game no matter what you do it does become a lottery.

Maybe half the problem is I am not an in depth player, ie I watch only extended highlights and not full match as I don't have the time. So maybe the one big thing that could improve is Assistant Manager feedback because it is pretty useless at the moment. In game he tells me that I would be better off with a shorter passing so I do, then two minutes later he suggests more direct passing!!! He then says that we are only threatening with long shots from too far out, despite the fact that all my players are on rare long shots! Then training - Every week he has it on Attacking Set Pieces so I take over and put it on Tactics then get a ticking off that it should be on a higher setting. In FM12 once in a while you had some feedback that was helpful from your Assistant like Man City do this or that so it was advised we concentrated on this or that in training,. It was a rarity to see though but it would be a good permanent addition. So for all sorts of gamer a better in match and build up Assistant Feed Back would probably be the best addition SI could make.

There has to be a balance in the level of tactical instruction though. As a real life manager myself I may ask a player to come back for a corner or free kick or mark an opposition player more tightly but I cannot say I have ever shouted to play wider or higher during a game. If you go one down the team starts to play more attacking to get the goal back anyway automatically and that is player decision and intelligence and also which is most overlooked in FM is the on field influence of the Captain. He IRL probably makes more on field decisions as the managers. You look at Managers in the live games, most of the stuff they are shouting is a quick point here and there to a player who is probably not looking anyway. So just a better balance between "management" and "player intelligence and decision" is all that's needed.

[Jibby123]

Fair points Sussex Hammer. Nothing more annoying than a goal down with 5 minutes to go seeing your team just play the ball across the back 4 indefinitely, strolling around. And we're talking top players in-game here, but even sunday pub leagues or school boy game players will know better when to chase a game irl.

At times I really shouldn't need to tell them, but maybe that's taking AI beyond what's there atm.

[Kriss]

Would the ability to use shouts for individual players help atall? obviously appropriate ones.

[Federico]

reverting to FM 12 and set it to the final ME would be no good

but reverting to it WHILE the 13 ME becomes playable would be good, at least the game would be playable in the meantime you finish that work

there is no point on keeping a match engine with lots of better animation, ball physics and etcetera if players just keep trying to score from the moon

This is... pointless. And impossible to apply moreover.

Did you purchase FM13... to play FM12? I'm missing something here.

[Jibby123]

Would the ability to use shouts for individual players help atall? obviously appropriate ones.

I'd love to see that, pre-programme shouts for individuals as well that change with substitutions etc; i.e. shouts/instructions to individuals rather than a postition or role.

[Kriss]

I'd love to see that, pre-programme shouts for individuals as well that change with substitutions etc; i.e. shouts/instructions to individuals rather than a postition or role.

Yeh, it is after all what real managers do a lot which is missing from the game.

[RTHerringbone]

Would the ability to use shouts for individual players help atall? obviously appropriate ones.

It would, but even as I type, it sounds weird as it's almost the sort of micro-management I think we're trying to avoid!

Rather than creating a framework in which we apply generic shouts to the team, we're now increasing options eleven-fold so we can apply them to individuals instead.

Just bandying ideas about hurts my head.

[dave7867]

Silly i know but im going to ask anyway ,How big is the ME in a file format?

If its not that big would it possible to have a choice of which you would like to use in Fm13.

I know Paul C has stated if your not happy with Fm13 right now go to play Fm12.

I know the is obviously answer is a definite no,Just putting the suggestion out there.

[Kriss]

It would, but even as I type, it sounds weird as it's almost the sort of micro-management I think we're trying to avoid!

Rather than creating a framework in which we apply generic shouts to the team, we're now increasing options eleven-fold so we can apply them to individuals instead.

Just bandying ideas about hurts my head.

Yeh but you wouldn't shout at all of them all of the time you'd do what rl managers do, shout at your winger to stay further forward etc.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

As my favourite albums were all made in the 60's I take issue with his analogy

There is always one "Contractual" Album with all the ideas considered as "failed" previously shoehorned in for the sake of it. Less sittar more Rickenbacker on the next album please.

[Kriss]

Silly i know but im going to ask anyway ,How big is the ME in a file format?

If its not that big would it possible to have a choice of which you would like to use in Fm13.

I know Paul C has stated if your not happy with Fm13 right now go to play Fm12.

I know the is obviously answer is a definite no,Just putting the suggestion out there.

It isn't a matter of size, even the ME has to be integrated with other component parts so you'd effectivelyhave to have two separate games (which is what you have now)

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

This is where we are at:

I am working daily on the 13 ME to provide an update for you hopefully well before the February data update but no date has been set as it isnt ready yet. So far despite having reduced long shots and improved defending vs dribbling etc the knock-ons have left things unbalanced. For example there are not enough goals at lower levels but plenty at higher ones. So until I can sort that out, hopefully without new knock-ons I cant schedule an update. If we can rebalance quickly then we will release one ASAP and then decide thereafter if more improvements are needed before or on the data update.

Sorry I cant be more specific!

On a couple of other issues that have been raised I also want to have my say:

- Ball physics. We are far happier with the ball physics in 13 than with what we had in 12, which had a less realistic model. That doesnt mean all is perfect as shown by the odd curve bug but those are rare enough that we concentrate elsewhere for the remainder of the 13 process.

- Reverting to the 12 ME. We consider the 12 ME as "stable" as it was, to be far inferior to the 13 ME. There is roughly a -100000% chance that we will ever revert. We respect the opinions of those who disagree but the only advice I can give them unfortunately is to play 12 instead. Look on it as buying the latest album by a band you like. You get it but it turns out you prefer the album before so you listen to that instead. It happens and we know we can't please everybody.

Thanks all,

Paul

Happy with the ball physics.....I am stunned you say this.

[Kriss]

Happy with the ball physics.....I am stunned you say this.

Happier is what he said, and he also admits it's not perfect, you're usually so accurate too

[Herbert Fandel]

Happy with the ball physics.....I am stunned you say this.

but he doesn't say that, he says happier than FM12, and then goes on to say there are bugs.

How can you be stunned? he didnt say it. jeez

I am happier drinking urine than eating feces

edit- thankfully the mods told me not to report any more people, or else I would have to report myself...

[Kriss]

Let's all jump on Tiger

[dave7867]

No problem just had to ask.

[Kriss]

No problem just had to ask.

Be interesting if you could just choose an ME, FM13 with the FM05 ME would be a cracker

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

but he doesn't say that, he says happier than FM12, and then goes on to say there are bugs.

How can you be stunned? he didnt say it. jeez

I am happier drinking urine than eating feces

edit- thankfully the mods told me not to report any more people, or else I would have to report myself...

OK, "Happier".....Im stunned!.

Im stunned because the FM12 ball physics are much much better than.....this!. I know the ME needs to move on, I appreciate that the knock-ons described would be inecusable if unleashed on the game and I know Paul C is trying to make FM13 the best FM ever but to use the ball phsyics as a positive is like Lou Reed using "Metal Machine Music" as an example of why experimentation is good (that one was for Kriss by the way).

[Herbert Fandel]

OK, "Happier".....Im stunned!.

Im stunned because the FM12 ball physics are much much better than.....this!. I know the ME needs to move on, I appreciate that the knock-ons described would be inecusable if unleashed on the game and I know Paul C is trying to make FM13 the best FM ever but to use the ball phsyics as a positive is like Lou Reed using "Metal Machine Music" as an example of why experimentation is good (that one was for Kriss by the way)

Now that the debate has returned to the realms of facts and opinion, unlike your average GD opinions and lies presented as facts, and all is well in the world, I am happy to let you have your opinion.

[dave7867]

Be interesting if you could just choose an ME, FM13 with the FM05 ME would be a cracker

Could you ask Paul please?:p and no im not serious

[Federico]

OK, "Happier".....Im stunned!.

Im stunned because the FM12 ball physics are much much better than.....this!

Not really, in my opinion. In FM12 the ball seems to move into a huge syroup bathtub. Or well let's say... a muddy scottish pitch after 1 week of heavy downpour.