Match Engine Update 13.2.1 - ME 1325 Constructive feedback here please

[Kriss]

Genuine question. I'm not a particularly savvy computer guy so what cause the me to be so different to so many. I have been playing a save since release from l1 to the prem in England with a basic 442, BMW and Ap in midfield, Dlf and Af up top and have not seen anything particularly out of the ordinary, no huge score lines, no massive mazy dribbles etc. in another thread, I mentionsed people trying to beat the me and not the opposition. Could that be causing issues?

I think the truth is that the less you do with tactics the less you'll see some of the issues, as I certainly stay very basic and only adjust roles and am similar to you.

It's definite that problems like the dribbling one are most prevalent with the very high end dribblers so once again you may not see it much.

But the issues do exist under some circumstances for sure.

[fmFutbolManager]

Before I upload a PKM to the bugs forum, did SI tweak heading decisions, where an unmarked defender under no challenge with no one around him would head a through ball out for a corner (despite being closer to the touch line)? Can't remember if they were meant to be fixed with 13.2.1 or is a fix forthcoming in the next update?

[BiggusD]

I'm a longtime FM player who rarely posts here (I haven't logged into my account in ages). I do play FM quite a lot, however, and have owned every version since FM 2008. Since then I've logged thousands of hours playing FM, and I always watch my entire matches. I prefer 2D to 3D as well, though I've found that 2D Classic is extremely laggy and jumpy in the current patch (which is odd, because I have a powerful CPU and the 3D engine runs without a hitch even at the highest graphics settings). In 2D I may miss some of the finer details of how players interact with each other around the ball, but that's always been an abstraction in FM anyway. The higher level tactical movement of both teams around the pitch is more interesting to me, and easier to see in 2D.

Which brings me to the reason I'm posting... I don't have the litany of problems other people have with the current ME. It looks more like real football than any previous ME, in my opinion. I actually find myself watching in 3D because those on-the-ball interactions are feeling much less abstracted than they used to. FM is getting to the point where it's not just simulating the outcomes of football, it's simulating the actual process and appearance of football. Which is wonderful.

The ME, however, does suffer from one glaring flaw: friction. This is especially apparent when watching in 2D. The ball simply does not stop once it has been kicked. During a recent match I was coaching I posed myself a question: "Which of these passes would, if left alone, stay in-bounds." The answer is, very very few. Unless a pass is directly to its intended target (or an opponent), the ball almost inevitably will run out of play. I've been keeping tabs on this thread, and I think many of the problems people are having with the ME stem from this issue. Too many wingers dribbling past defenders? Easy to do when they need only boot the ball down the wing and outrun the full back because the ball just keeps going. Too few through balls? It's tough to make a pass that even the fastest striker can run onto when the ball just keeps going and going. Too many own goals? At least in my case all of the own goals I see are due to the ball moving too quickly (and not slowing down) for a defender or keeper on a back pass.

Overall, my impression of the ME has been that it gets the details right and the bigger picture wrong. The version of FM I've spent the most time with is 2010 (because I have a very long-running save game that I don't want to give up). The ME in 2010 was flawed and buggy in many ways, but it gets the big picture right despite getting so many of the details wrong. I understand that 2013 is essentially a full re-write of the ME, and that it's a work in progress, and I applaud SI for trying to model football from the ground up instead of from the results down (my interpretation of the difference between the 2010-2012 ME vs the 2013 ME). In the end this should produce a much more realistic and attractive experience.

With that in mind, my opinion is that the most useful thing to tweak and play with right now is the ball physics. Let it slow down more when it's sliding along the pitch. That alone, I believe, would be a huge step in the right direction.

The problems with the physics engine amounts to more than just friction. I have noticed what you say here as well, but in my opinion, the speed of the ball on short passes is even more serious. Even at two clicks higher speed, the ball is still moving awfully slowly and weakly from player to player. So slow, in fact, that on many occasions it would be more efficient for the player with the ball to run with it the same distance. This is how interceptions happen, and there are lots of them every match - the players are moving faster than the ball when they move around the pitch. There are hard passes as well, of course, and on many occasions those passes are harder than the shots fired off from 18-25 meters en masse. However, the recipient of the ball can trap those passes easily irrespective of the distance it has travelled and his First Touch and Technique attributes. It is peculiar to watch your player fire off a rifling shot in one instance and in the next, half a meter in front of him, the opponent defender would "plays the ball forward" to the feet of his teammate 50 meters away.

It is also peculiar to notice that in FM, short passing is "safe mode" and direct passing is "risk mode", while in real life the exact opposite is the obvious truth. If you are closed down by several players and pass the ball five meters away to your teammate, you will have postponed losing possession with half a second at best and put your teammate in trouble. In addition, it requires good technique, overview, composure and vision to receive a pass, control it and pass it on in such a short amount of time. In modern football it isn't going to be good enough to concentrate on controlling the ball and then find a teammate to pass to - you will need to know where the ball is going next and position your body accordingly before you even receive the ball, and this requires immense skill if it is going to be fast enough. Players that don't have this skill therefore opt to pass the ball longer and to more open players (or into space) instead, since it is less risky and gives the teammate more time to control the ball.

As it is now, the FM13 ME's physics does not support either style of football. To do so it needs to account for velocity and air resistance as well as friction, since this would make a well-weigthed pass to a teammate 10 meters away almost impossible to intercept the first 5 meters both due to reaction time and the fact that the ball would go twice as fast then (or something like that, ask a mathematician) as at the moment it reaches its target. This would of course fix the cross issue as well, since the unrealistic hard crosses to the far post would in fact move much slower towards the end if they were to be precise and this would allow the full backs time to at least challenge for the ball. It would also allow for more realistic through-balls since the 10+ meter straight forward passes to a striker moving forward would either be so hard that it would have to be millimeter precise (thus limited both in number and in who could do them) and extremely well weighted so as to not go all the way to the keeper; or so weak that the defenders would have a real chance of interception. These through-balls are really rare in real life precisely for this reason. Most through-balls I have seen are either short passes from a certain angle into space created because of lateral movement of the ball in front of the goal, or long passes above or between a pushed-up or out-of-balance defence that are curled so that they don't go straight at goal.

The way I see it, 13.1.3 was fine except for some bugs and unbalanced through-balls from out wide. Apparently, SI tweaked defensive positioning and reaction-times so that they could effectively deal with that threat and toned down willingness to do those passes as well. However, I think you've got a point that the problem might have been ball physics in the first place, not slow defender reactions. The passes were way too hard and precise and the forwards were way too good at controlling them given that extreme velocity. Now the same thing is happening with crosses.

[Kriss]

Before I upload a PKM to the bugs forum, did SI tweak heading decisions, where an unmarked defender under no challenge with no one around him would head a through ball out for a corner (despite being closer to the touch line)? Can't remember if they were meant to be fixed with 13.2.1 or is a fix forthcoming in the next update?

No not in any fix list so please go ahead.

[jason bhoys]

Just bought the game today and its still in the wrapper, don't know whether to open it or not after reading everything on this thread. What should i do? play just now or wait until patch comes out?

[TSH]

I've seen the same number every year just about different things.

I'll explain one more time Tom.

Over two years ago it became apparent that the FM11 ME had reach the limits of adjustability. i.e. it simply could not be improved further and things like the corner bug couldn't be eradicated without a major rewrite of whole sections of code.

In addition if it was going to be taken to further heights new sections such as collision avoidance had to be introduced.

It was decided that the FM11 ME would remain virtually unchanged into FM12 so that two years could be devoted to the major overhaul.

This year it was decided that the new ME should be introduced, controversial maybe but the reasoning is sound, the only true test for it is to expose it to the hundreds of thousands who buy the game and who will detect every tiny flaw in no time atall.

Keeping it in house for a further year might have resulted in a 10% improvement, releasing it now means improvements will be quicker and far more rigorously tested.

The downside is that it hasn't gone as well as most of us hoped so far and of course updates necessarily take far longer than any of us would rather wish.

My conclusion is that it was totally right to do it this way and while people have every right to feel disappointed at this stage they do need to see the bigger picture too.

We can also have confidence in SI to do everything they can to make rapid steps forward in resolving the current issues.

The downside is that all the above were not mentioned in the blogs of Miles, were they?

Don't try to justify another beta version that people paid for with completely void arguments about the need for testing. No one asked us if we wanted to pay for a beta test.

And the problem is not that we did, for one more year, it's the fact that you as moderators keep trying to argue about it, while SI doesn't take any official stance. It's only logical to hear so many complaints when people have been treated like this, no?

[Kriss]

It's only logical to hear so many complaints when people have been treated like this, no?

No it's not logical atall imo, but i'm not even going down that road yet again.

You're determined to be offended and I doubt any explanation however valid is going to change that.

[Kriss]

Just bought the game today and its still in the wrapper, don't know whether to open it or not after reading everything on this thread. What should i do? play just now or wait until patch comes out?

There's plenty to enjoy and get used to without being overly affected by any current issues, FMC is certainly worth exploring.

[Keyzer Soze]

This year it was decided that the new ME should be introduced, controversial maybe but the reasoning is sound, the only true test for it is to expose it to the hundreds of thousands who buy the game and who will detect every tiny flaw in no time atall.

Keeping it in house for a further year might have resulted in a 10% improvement, releasing it now means improvements will be quicker and far more rigorously tested.

I think you are already regreted of this words, because they are so easy put out of context.

In any case, i'm not surprise, because in truth, this is the way the game industry works... or in fact any other industry.

You sell a product, and that product is always a work in progress... you receive the feedback from the users of that product, and you try to improve the original product.

This type of relation happen in every product in the world that is made and put to sell.

[Kriss]

I think you are already regreted of this words, because they are so easy put out of context.

In any case, i'm not surprise, because in truth, this is the way the game industry works... or in fact any other industry.

You sell a product, and that product is always a work in progress... you receive the feedback from the users of that product, and you try to improve the original product.

This type of relation happen in every product in the world that is made and put to sell.

No I don't because they are the simple truth and will only be taken out of context by people who are actually looking to do so.

The rest of your post is 100% correct and is unlikely ever to change much in relation to complex software.

[Keyzer Soze]

The rest of your post is 100% correct and is unlikely ever to change much in relation to complex software.

I hope it will never change!

The day companys stop listen to the users, will be a huge stepback in improving games.

[Kriss]

I hope it will never change!

The day companys stop listen to the users, will be a huge stepback in improving games.

We should remember too that there are other very important factors affecting the production cycle/testing/release schedule etc, not least security of the product.

[Ackter]

although i agree with matsonn mann that on previous games through balls to the striker(poacher) was way too effective, there was nothing wrong with through balls to wingers, inside forwards, or attacking midfielders, which are all non-existent in this ME. how many times do you see a long ball played in to space for your wingers/inside forwards? 0 how many times do you see an inside forward cut inside and send a through ball to the other attacking midfielders? 0

just look at this picture, ridiculous, he is even a left footer which means he is in perfect position to send a ball to the striker that has beaten his marker. but what does he do instead? wait 2 seconds and shoot hopelessly straight at the GK.

other things ive noticed that i havent seen mentioned much:

* hitting the bar from hopeless headers, far away crosses.

*fullbacks being too adventurous(not the excessive running with ball issue). i was playing on counter and my RB decided to leave his man and position to go into an attacking midfield position.

*extremely poor movement from inside forwards on the wings. in all the patches. cutting inside is highly ineffective.

If he waits 2 seconds, can you post a picture of the exact time he shoots? The above picture isn't much use as Rafinha is facing exactly away from where you want him to be passing to at the moment of your screenshot.

[ianscousemac]

Just bought the game today and its still in the wrapper, don't know whether to open it or not after reading everything on this thread. What should i do? play just now or wait until patch comes out?

I would go for it and play FMC. I read these pages and to be honest I dont really see many of the problems that get reported. I love FMC its so fast and to be honest the ME will probably be top notch by the time the last patch come out, SI do work hard for us and rightly so.

[nenshoua]

Snapshot of first EPL end of the season..and i've been seeing a good amount of ppl getting similar results :

http://postimage.org/image/bbmigr5ct/full/

Feels like defensive/lower profile teams are doing too well, tbh..

[Ackter]

Just bought the game today and its still in the wrapper, don't know whether to open it or not after reading everything on this thread. What should i do? play just now or wait until patch comes out?

You've already bought the game, so you may as well try it for yourself and make your own mind up?

[Ackter]

Snapshot of first EPL end of the season..and i've been seeing a good amount of ppl getting similar results :

http://postimage.org/image/bbmigr5ct/full/

Feels like defensive/lower profile teams are doing too well, tbh..

Which teams in particular do you disagree with being where they are?

[Kriss]

Snapshot of first EPL end of the season..and i've been seeing a good amount of ppl getting similar results :

http://postimage.org/image/bbmigr5ct/full/

Feels like defensive/lower profile teams are doing too well, tbh..

I really can't see much wrong with that even compared with rl, except Everton's position.

[billyboyeden]

I think the truth is that the less you do with tactics the less you'll see some of the issues, as I certainly stay very basic and only adjust roles and am similar to you.

It's definite that problems like the dribbling one are most prevalent with the very high end dribblers so once again you may not see it much.

But the issues do exist under some circumstances for sure.

Thanks for that kriss. I can understand there are a few issues, I just find the 2 ends of the argument so amazingly wide apart that you'd think people were playing 2 different games. I gues it falls to individuals tolerance and expectations. Just to pop a bit of good feedback in tho, I am enjoying the variety of goals, I had a 40 yard free kick sail in as the oppositions keeper seemed to have been spotted off his line :-). Having never really seen many free kicks scored in all my time, I lept off the chair and frightened the hell out of my wife lol

Thanks again for the reply

[MacZidane]

Just bought the game today and its still in the wrapper, don't know whether to open it or not after reading everything on this thread. What should i do? play just now or wait until patch comes out?

Mate, even with the few flaws it has, it's still by far the best one of the series for many years, so fill your boots. My advice to you is to play it and enjoy it, and don't sit there looking for issues, flaws, and errors. That's where so many others are having trouble with it. A lot of people are simply sitting watching the ME waiting for a bug to happen so they can run on here and cry about it being broken. The developers know what needs fixed. It's a delicate area, as there could be other knock on issues at the back of it, so I'd rather they took their time and got it right. It's not as if it isn't playable. Like I said, even with the current issues, it's still a helluva game.

[xambo]

Would there be the same bugs in the 3D view as in the 2D view ?

I know logically its one match engine and should be the same, but is it a little different ?

[MacZidane]

Would there be the same bugs in the 3D view as in the 2D view ?

I know logically its one match engine and should be the same, but is it a little different ?

You don't see the same level of animation, so any graphical bugs won't be as noticable. There's not all that many now anyway. What you could do is if you notice a bug during the match you're watching in 3D, replay the incident in 2D, and see what it looks like.

[Loversleaper]

I just went through the bugs forums and didn't see any mention of a problem I have been encountering (so I am not sure if it is only occuring in my games). I wanted to know if others experience that when you make a substitution and make tactical changes at the same time, do you find that substitutions do not go through? And another thing, is that afterwards you cannot make any changes to your players' individual instructions...?

Here's a screenshot: http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882970307810851956/2BAA68A1815EA9F285C788B7B7DDE21C6F7DF458/

[hammer88]

You don't need "new" feedback in each post, if anything, the sheer volume of this thread demonstrates a high frequency of the same outstanding issues, negating the possibility that they were anomalies or explained by other variables.

[Kriss]

You don't need "new" feedback in each post, if anything, the sheer volume of this thread demonstrates a high frequency of the same outstanding issues, negating the possibility that they were anomalies or explained by other variables.

In some cases that's absolutely true, but there are also issues with people voicing directly opposing opinions, so it isn't all a case of it must be wrong because more than one person says it is.

[sacripante]

Uhm... if many (most? all?) players (including me) are happy of 13.1.3 version and now all are asking for an hotfix, SI could roll back to 13.1.3 and make steam update to a new (that actually will be old) version; this way, people can play happily and SI employeers can take theri time, testing and refining next version of ME without the risk to release it too quickly and realeasing instead it with the late february usual update.

[shelton]

Uhm... if many (most? all?) players (including me) are happy of 13.1.3 version and now all are asking for an hotfix, SI could roll back to 13.1.3 and make steam update to a new (that actually will be old) version; this way, people can play happily and SI employeers can take theri time, testing and refining next version of ME without the risk to release it too quickly and realeasing instead it with the late february usual update.

I am not happy with 13.2 but is really a step forward compared to 13.1.3.

[scott MUFC]

a guy with TWELVE dribbling has just dribbled past 4 players and scored from the edge of the area....

i thought this was fixed

[Ackter]

a guy with TWELVE dribbling has just dribbled past 4 players and scored from the edge of the area....

i thought this was fixed

So? I've seen Titus Bramble dribble past 3 Chelsea players in real life ffs.

[Ackter]

Uhm... if many (most? all?) players (including me) are happy of 13.1.3 version and now all are asking for an hotfix, SI could roll back to 13.1.3 and make steam update to a new (that actually will be old) version; this way, people can play happily and SI employeers can take theri time, testing and refining next version of ME without the risk to release it too quickly and realeasing instead it with the late february usual update.

Nothing will be gained by moving backwards. It would also make any bug reports from then onwards completely useless as they wouldn't likely apply to the engine version SI were working on. It's in everyone's best interests to use the most recent patch as it will help get us to a much better experience.

[scott MUFC]

chelsea isn't an international match and past players with 17 tackling...

it was made up for by the fact I scored from a sloppy passback for my 2nd and one of those crosses that goes in though.. so still plenty of stuff to iron out

[Ackter]

Well no, Chelsea are usually a higher standard than most international teams.

[scott MUFC]

I am England... Shawcross and Jones in CD.... both 17 tackling.

it happens plenty of times a game multiple times, on both sides, mostly miss the target, and always from thier own half.

[Romanista.]

If he waits 2 seconds, can you post a picture of the exact time he shoots? The above picture isn't much use as Rafinha is facing exactly away from where you want him to be passing to at the moment of your screenshot.

happy?

And regarding corners, whats the point of re-writing the ME if you are going to re-write the same things? every goal from a corner comes either from a near post or far post header. why cant we see any goals from the middle? or goals after a player has made a run? or playing the corners short? everyone seems to just freeze at corners, while IRL attackers move around to beat their marker to a header. it has been like this since i remember, corner goals dont just come from 2 exact points every time SI!

[El_MUERkO]

New to the forum, happily played FM12 all year and got FM13, I expected positive changes but now my players are idiots, they cant tackle or really defend at all, loads of shots from long range into row Z. Hope it's going to be fixed soon as there is no point in playing it right now when no one on my team does as asked.

[Arisilan]

I really enjoy this ME. Another ball coming through

[video=youtube;JccLzofGcFU]

[jujigatame]

I am not happy with 13.2 but is really a step forward compared to 13.1.3.

Really? I never got crazy 8-9 goal results in 13.1.3. Now I get them several times per season.

[Korleone]

Nothing will be gained by moving backwards. It would also make any bug reports from then onwards completely useless as they wouldn't likely apply to the engine version SI were working on. It's in everyone's best interests to use the most recent patch as it will help get us to a much better experience.

.. are you gain experience on our money??

Constructive ideea: Start FM 2014 development to gain another some money (at least from me) next year:thup:.

[fmFutbolManager]

If he waits 2 seconds, can you post a picture of the exact time he shoots? The above picture isn't much use as Rafinha is facing exactly away from where you want him to be passing to at the moment of your screenshot.

Are Si still interested in instances of this? My last game I played within a few minutes my players were ignoring all through balls when they seemed obvious to me. That doesn't meant to say they are, but I'm not debugging, I'm just showing what looks to be a bug.

These are just a couple from the first 15 minutes, I could dig out hundreds, if required? This game there were plenty of times the through balls were just not played. Again, this could be my bad interpretation of when a through ball should be played.

Camara just needs to feed the ball forward, seems quite easy but he shoots for the corner flag.

Bernard just needs to feed the ball through the gap, rather he shoots through the gap and wildly misses.

[themadsheep2001]

I dont think they have to be attempted through balls, but they both should be passes for me, even if they are passes into feet. In both cases, even a selfish dribble (if he is that kind of player) is a better option. Basically a long shot should be the last option imo.

Interested to see the attributes of both the passers though, but looking at Bernards position, i can almost understand a selfish longshot, interested to see if his attributes/PPM back that up. Camara however hasnt got the angle for me to be shooting.

[fmFutbolManager]

I dont think they have to be attempted through balls, but they both should be passes for me, even if they are passes into feet. In both cases, even a selfish dribble (if he is that kind of player) is a better option. Basically a long shot should be the last option imo.

Interested to see the attributes of both the passers though, but looking at Bernards position, i can almost understand a selfish longshot, interested to see if his attributes/PPM back that up. Camara however hasnt got the angle for me to be shooting.

Yeah, sorry I'm getting carried away. It should be pass, dribble or through ball before shooting from there. Especially with the better option ahead of him. Not shooting.

What stats in particular would you like to see?

[MacZidane]

every goal from a corner comes either from a near post or far post header

A game I played last night, both myself and the opposition scored from a corner, and both headers were pretty central. I'll post the video when I get home tonight.

[themadsheep2001]

Yeah, sorry I'm getting carried away. It should be pass, dribble or through ball before shooting from there. Especially with the better option ahead of him. Not shooting.

What stats in particular would you like to see?

Decisions creativity flair teamwork, also their PPMs.

Thanks.

[fmFutbolManager]

Decisions creativity flair teamwork, also their PPMs.

Thanks.

Camara

Decisions: 8 (oh, how do you train this?)

Creativity: 15

Flair: 15

Teamwork: 15

PPMs: Likes to beat the offside trap, knocks ball past opponent

Bernard

Decisions: 15

Creativity: 17

Flair: 17

Teamwork: 17

PPMs: none.

I also play this player in AMC, too. He is also always shooting and not playing passes.

Rafinha (very similar to Bernard)

Decisions: 15

Creativity: 17

Flair: 17

Teamwork: 17

PPMs: Tried killer balls often, places shots, Comes deep to get the ball, plays one-twos, tried first time shots

[wwfan]

Are Si still interested in instances of this? My last game I played within a few minutes my players were ignoring all through balls when they seemed obvious to me. That doesn't meant to say they are, but I'm not debugging, I'm just showing what looks to be a bug.

These are just a couple from the first 15 minutes, I could dig out hundreds, if required? This game there were plenty of times the through balls were just not played. Again, this could be my bad interpretation of when a through ball should be played.

Camara just needs to feed the ball forward, seems quite easy but he shoots for the corner flag.

Bernard just needs to feed the ball through the gap, rather he shoots through the gap and wildly misses.

In this example, the TB is 100% not on as the possible receiver is facing the wrong direction. Ball to feet for the one-two back into space would be great though. If I were reporting this, I'd focus on three bugs:

1: The lack of the pass

2: The DL not having squeezed the gap and being outside his winger

3: The wingers not trying to find central space in the final third

[wwfan]

TSH & MacZidane, would you please give it a rest.

[Tubbs]

I like many others on here have posted about the long shots and through ball issues. and other people about overpowered wingbacks etc. It goes without saying that these are spoiling the fun of many who play the game. But I have little doubt that (eventually) SI will sort them out and produce a more enjoyable ME.

But the above is missing the point slightly, as the real and most fundamental issue that has come out of 13.2.1 is the fact that no matter what you try to do tactically to prevent your players from taking long shots. Or encourage them to play through balls, or stop cutting inside simply DOES NOT work. The fact that as a manager chunks of tactical instructions have been made obsolete by this latest patch is worrying in the extreme. To the point where I wonder if there are other shouts/instructions that are already rendered worthless by the power of the ME.

[fmFutbolManager]

In this example, the TB is 100% not on as the possible receiver is facing the wrong direction. Ball to feet for the one-two back into space would be great though. If I were reporting this, I'd focus on three bugs:

1: The lack of the pass

2: The DL not having squeezed the gap and being outside his winger

3: The wingers not trying to find central space in the final third

I admitted above that I was overzealous with the TB theory; rather then the options should be pass, TB, dribble before shoot. In these scenarios they shot. Although in this particular example, I'm pretty sure (could check tonight) the striker turned around pretty quick and was left running into nowhere.

[BiggusD]

In this example, the TB is 100% not on as the possible receiver is facing the wrong direction. Ball to feet for the one-two back into space would be great though. If I were reporting this, I'd focus on three bugs:

1: The lack of the pass

2: The DL not having squeezed the gap and being outside his winger

3: The wingers not trying to find central space in the final third

It is a problem too, then, that the striker is facing in the wrong direction when the obvious choice is to anticipate a through-ball from Camara even before the latter got the ball. The second-best option is as you say to anticipate a one-two since Camara has that as a PPM. The third-best option (for the striker) is to open up space for Camara to run into, which seems to be what he is doing, but Camara does not use that space and that is also something that should be looked at.

[Sussex Hammer]

Too many instances of this from goalkeepers. Gawd only knows how many points these sort of decisions have cost me, this one two points in a 1-1 draw v West Brom. Ironically they hardly had a shot on target and didn't even look like scoring until this happened, and it's "not tactical" this is clearly basic stupidity in the ME especially as it happens too often. Once or twice a season a balls up like this may happen but this is a regular issue. I'd rather he punts it down the middle like in the previous patch!!!

Keeper strength is consistency, Kicking 15, Decisions 14.

And what is this bizarre ritual that is creeping into the ME? I see players almost running on the spot with the ball at their feet surrounded by opposition players and no one does anything for about 15 seconds. Most bizarre.

Previous patch headers were working perfectly with a fair few efforts on goal, some scored, some beautifully saved but a good balance. Now players 99% of the time head over the bar again.

I must say I'd take the dribbling in the previous patch over the lack of through balls in this by a mile. I've resorted to playing direct with a TM in this patch as it at least gets the ball forward quicker. Definitely IMO the worst ME of any so far in 2013 I'm sorry to say.