David Kempshall

A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

4,165 posts in this topic

I always figured this was the end-game.

I've been using Steam pretty much since it's launch, and I've only bought a handful of non-steam games.

I've got no problem with Steam at all.

Steam has an offline mode as well, so it's no big deal.

You can install from the disc anyway.

I wonder if it's going to end up on the 'new download content' side of things.

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I think this is a really poor decision. Many people such as myself dislike Steam because having to have it's stupid client open drains system resources, which is particularly annoying on the lower end computers. I note that the below average PC's of FM users have long been a reason for poor high-res support and lack of 64-bit amongst other things, but I see this has now been discarded. It also means that I have to connect to the internet to start the game, and given my net is intermittent at best this will be very aggravating. I am by no means against having Steam as an option, as I can see its benefits and why some people prefer it, but forcing software on us is not cool. And no, it won't stop piracy - that has never ever been done by anyone, and Steam has continually failed. The best solution is to convince people not to pirate it by making it as easy to install and unintrusive as possible and accept that some people will anyway. This just hurts honest consumers and increases piracy as people want to do things like play it on multiple computers or without Steam. I know it would be foolish of me to state that I will pirate the game here, but I can honestly see many people doing so just to avoid the hassle and convince SI not to make this kind of move in the future.

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I'm not against the this move as I stopped using disks for anything ages ago.

But the reasoning you will combat piracy is absolutely ridiculous. Every single "steam protected" game has been cracked.

Whoever used pirated games before will go to the same place to get their new copy and wouldn't care less if you changed the protection. So effectively I don't see how somebody who pirated the games before won't do it now. To really change this you have two options:

1. Use a copy protection which hasn't been cracked. I know one and it would probably cause even bigger outrage.

2. Ask why people are pirating - they are either too lazy to get to the store (digital distribution) or can't afford the game (lower price).

Publishers really had a chance to kill two birds with one stone using digital distribution, but they opted for keeping there even higher prices than the brick and mortar stores, which is financially illogical.

You can reason that Steam is cool and bringing a lot of convenience, but combating piracy? Don't insult our intelligence.

The only thing you are achieving is annoying people who hate change and ultimately they may opt for the pirated version, which won't require any pesky activation. I'm saying you could have marketed this decision better.

nail on head.

there's really no point in arguing this at all. you can see how much SI/SEGA care about their core fanbase simply buy the replies of 'don't buy it then' (pretty much) by the staff on here. (i thought they were trying to stop a decrease in sales. obviously dont care too much by these replies!)

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You don't have to connect to internet to start the game. Just to activate it. Put Steam into offline mode once activated and you can play without even being connected to the internet.

You must have a very poor quality computer for Steam to have any affect that is noticeable on your system resources.

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This is an awful move, FM is the one game you can play which doesn't need your entire focus, so i always have the game going in the background while i play other games (mostly via steam) - however now i won't be able to because steam will only let you open one game at once. I don't have a problem with steam itself, i play a lot of CS and other online games (for which steam is good, because people can't play on verified servers without having a legitimate account, and steam even simplifies the difficulties once had with various online games in actually getting online, configuring and playing against other people), but it seems stupid for the ONE single player game i actually play, to restrict me to solely playing that, unless i buy a second PC and play it on a different steam account?

Even so, for the reasons given, it's a bit of an ignorant decision anyway - the main reason steam games are "more difficult" to crack and copy than other methods is because of the fact that when you connect to a server, they're connected to a master server and if you're not on a legitimate account then you're unable to play online. For single player games however, the steam launcher and GCF file system was cracked years ago, and you can simply download a different client and play without having to connect to anything - it's just a launcher for the way steam store their games.

For FM, a game predominantly played single player, with very little online need, it's just going to simplify copying it. The cracked steam clients even DOWNLOAD the game for you from the official steam servers, no need to search certain websites, crack the game or whatever anymore, and hope it works for each patch; just boot up the launcher, download the game and play.

Of course, it won't impact the sales - the majority of people who buy the game won't browse these forums, and won't be aware of the fact steam is necessary now. But i'd just hope people realise how much easier playing an offline game is on steam than a standard one. You don't have to crack the actual game, but the steam platform (which is already done).

Still gonna buy it to support the game, but i'm more than likely gonna have to play a "different" way so i can still play other games on steam simultaneously.

moon_goat well said

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I think this is absolutely appalling.

I have a steam account and it was once hacked/stolen. In the time taken (2 weeks) to recover my account i was not able to play any games associated with that ID.

I have bought every edition of CM/FM from the very first but I will not buy this one. If it was up to me I may very well activated it on steam, but to not give me the choice is a step too far.

If you have bought a disc that should be verification enough.

BIG OWN GOAL.

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I REALLY hate Steam... But I already have it on my PC to play 'The Last Remnant'. I'd rather avoid having another game on it because I did run into some issues with it (Steam not updating, for example).

But whatever, you gotta do what you gotta do. I love FM too much to pass up on it.

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I'm sorry to break this to you but if you insist on a physical copy of software you will be very disappointed in the next few years. CDs and DVDs and even Blu-Ray are almost obsolete due to online distribution. Game stores will go the way of record shops and Blockbusters in the not too distant future.

No, I am sorry to break it to you, sir...

Digital distribution is increasing, but not to the point as to where the physical copy will be eliminated.

If caps on broadband in this and other countries publishers wont get rid of the physical copy just yet.

Even the next gaming consoles will be, in my opinion, physical media based.

My broadband is capped at 30GB a month for around £19.90 monthly fee. What if I wanted to download legally the Star Wars blu ray that's just been released? How big would that be? Plus not everyone has mega download speeds. I don't. I don't live in an area with a massive LLU presence and my download speeds are around 260 kb/s or kbs. I don't see massive change in the near future on that front. I don't see bandwidth caps being abolished for the average broadband consumer.

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Oh come on guys, this is silly now :D

Look, if someone gets your account and password, they can get into your account. Regardless of whether or not you set the application to offline on your computer. Your games are saved on Steam servers. It is an internet based application.

Look at it this way - if you don't have the internet at all, then you can't use Steam. That is not a local application, that is an internet basned application. Steam requires the internet at one stage, or another, in order for it to what it is designed to do. I can't possible make it more clear. It is an internet based application.

As has been said earlier - stop spreading mis-information. Your games are saved onto YOUR COMPUTER, otherwise why would you have to download the game if you purchase it via steam? Same with updates - why would you have to download updates if the game was on a steam server.

The list of games you have purchased is stored on Steam servers, that's it.

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FFS SI do you not listen to those of us that do actually buy the game. Shame on whoever made that decision, I'll wager a Sega directive rather than an SI one - if I am wrong then you, SI, have really lost touch with your people!

For the prpose of this email this tone is very very restrained from what I actually think.

Dont you think SI and Sega have done lots of calculations before making this decision? - Many FM'ers already use Steam and perhaps many pirates will actually buy the game now and then the loss of those who do not wish to use steam may be ignored..

IMO this is a smart decision of SI to at least try it out to see if it helps. They have to do something and IMO Steam is a good option to choose. If you disapprove, then dont buy FM2012.. :)

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nail on head.

there's really no point in arguing this at all. you can see how much SI/SEGA care about their core fanbase simply buy the replies of 'don't buy it then' (pretty much) by the staff on here. (i thought they were trying to stop a decrease in sales. obviously dont care too much by these replies!)

Now that's totally unfair. The decision has been made for this year (already stated in this thread) which means no amount of b*chin, moaning or complaining from anyone, no matter how loudly, is going to change the fact that this year's game requires Steam. And since this is a fact which cannot be changed, then what else are they going to say/react like? Seriously.

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Ignoring that point the fact still remains. FM's fan base has been one of the most loyal for a long while and over the past few years they have felt increasingly aggrieved by SI and it's policies towards them and the community. Fact is the whole SI community and Affiliate scheme is the biggest joke ever, ideas like this are the biggest joke ever and yet you still wonder whilst people still feel aggrieved and unfairly treated by SI.

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Point. Missed. Completely. It was a single point on the list of things that people need be aware of. Not a list of things that people need to run away screaming in terror and fright from. I find it hilarious that you started a massive argument over what an initially minor point and then took it to such ridiculous examples.

etc.

Look you're basically saying it's not secure you said in the snipped post above that "It needs to be secured properly"

This gives other people the impression it's not secured properly.

Which is incorrect.

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You don't have to connect to internet to start the game. Just to activate it. Put Steam into offline mode once activated and you can play without even being connected to the internet.

You must have a very poor quality computer for Steam to have any affect that is noticeable on your system resources.

Who was that replying to?

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Will I still be able to install the game from the disk? In previous years when I've bought the disk and installed through this apparently apocalypse creating bit of software otherwise known as steam, it downloaded the game instead of installing from disk (unless I did something wrong in my haste to play) when the game was sat in my disk drive!! In the end I gave up and installed without steam due to my impatience not paranoia.

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Look you're basically saying it's not secure you said in the snipped post above that "It needs to be secured properly"

This gives other people the impression it's not secured properly.

Which is incorrect.

What the hell? :D Can someone else please tell me that I'm not going nuts here?

Saying it needs to be secured properly means that you need to give it a decent password that is not the same as your email password. That is securing it properly, that applies to every web service you sign up to. This is my point. Not that Steam itself is a security risk, that has never been my point.

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Not really, I've bought two copies most years, even bought more copies for various reasons and I've also spent a lot of money on community sites and supported sites and players before, all I'm doing is installing the games on two of my computers (ones a home and one's a personal) which I can use both, if I didn't my brother would just play it on my laptop anyway?

Still a breach of the EULA you agreed to when installing the game, multiple installs with the intention of allowing another person to play the game at the same time os the primary user is illegal.

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Still a breach of the EULA you agreed to when installing the game, multiple installs with the intention of allowing another person to play the game at the same time os the primary user is illegal.

Come on, lol

I'm sure you don't lead a whiter than white lifestyle unless you're planning on becoming a choirboy.

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What you've been doing for a number of years is essentially illegal and in breach of the terms when sold the game I'm afraid.

And you terms are really stupid. It's like saying that they cant share a car and have to buy 2 cars, or cant listen to a music record because they havent bought two. I understand that piracy is hurting your company financially but the fact is that YOU CANT STOP PIRACY!!! What you can do and did is **** off a lot of people ( like me ) who hate steam. Also fun fact: Piracy isnt only a bad thing, without it Football Manager wouldn't be as big ( in terms of reputation and community ) as it is today, just like in the music or movie industry, without piracy i really doubt that Metallica would be as big as they are, or Coldplay or any other band.

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Folks

I am not sure what the fuss is about with steam.. I have used it for a while and think its great. access to game without having the disk all the time, can play on other computers as well

Brilliant !!

That should upset a few people but hey ho :-)

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If it will really help to piracy to decrease, then I appreciate but I do not think it will help, especially in Turkey. Instead of giving such amounts to play (it is really really expensive in Turkey), people can just give up playing Football Manager. At least FM2012.

I use Steam for 2 years, so I have no problem with the decision but just want to know, do you really think that it will decrease the piracy? If you think so, I will be just wishing that you're right.

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And you terms are really stupid. It's like saying that they cant share a car and have to buy 2 cars, or cant listen to a music record because they havent bought two. I understand that piracy is hurting your company financially but the fact is that YOU CANT STOP PIRACY!!! What you can do and did is **** off a lot of people ( like me ) who hate steam. Also fun fact: Piracy isnt only a bad thing, without it Football Manager wouldn't be as big ( in terms of reputation ) as it is today, just like in the music or movie industry, without piracy i really doubt that Metallica would be as big as they are, or Coldplay or any other band.

You are joking, right?

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This is an awful move, FM is the one game you can play which doesn't need your entire focus, so i always have the game going in the background while i play other games (mostly via steam) - however now i won't be able to because steam will only let you open one game at once. I don't have a problem with steam itself, i play a lot of CS and other online games (for which steam is good, because people can't play on verified servers without having a legitimate account, and steam even simplifies the difficulties once had with various online games in actually getting online, configuring and playing against other people), but it seems stupid for the ONE single player game i actually play, to restrict me to solely playing that, unless i buy a second PC and play it on a different steam account?

That is not the case, I just tested with FM and TF2 simultaneously.

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So basically your forcing people to get Steam to activate, and also your alienating people that dont have an internet connection. Just like FM09 when I didnt have one and was forced to phone a premium rate number to activate my game. Absolute farce.

I wont be purchasing this years game now. I was contemplating it anyway as its just crap feature after crap feature, and bug after bug because of said poorly tested features each year, but this has just tipped it over the edge.

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i dont like the fact that to play my favourite game of the year every year i have to install a third party software which in my previous experience has used a lot of resources (all be it on laptops with 1-2 gb of ram) an i feel that a lot of people playing the game will have a lot of crashes due to having to use this.

also one other point if there is only one way to activate the game is through steam then there is going to be chaos with loads of people trying to activate the game at once which will surely lead to more people being annoyed because it was bad enough a couple years back when we had two options to activate the game and it took me best part of a whole day to activate so surely with only 1 option to activate it will take twice as log to be able to activate.

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Still a breach of the EULA you agreed to when installing the game, multiple installs with the intention of allowing another person to play the game at the same time os the primary user is illegal.

EULA's have the legal powers of something scribbled on a snotty napkin.

The law usually says if you buy something you own the title and can do what you like, and putting it on two computers isn't against the law no matter what the "EULA" says. Especially if he doesn't circumvent any copy protection to do so.

Don't quote me on that, but I'm just saying that the reality isn't going to be black and white.

Anyway, I already pre-ordered on steam.

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But djvandyke, you use Xbox Live right? Well damn Microsoft! They forced you to sign up to a service to use their online products. Surely they should burn in the fiery hells of Satan like Steam should right?

Thats hardly the same thing. People log in to and pay for Xbox live in order to use the online sevices it provides. Not in order to play an offline game that has been paid for!

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however now i won't be able to because steam will only let you open one game at once..

Nah, I have FM running atm on steam and fired up two other games via Steam to check, all three are running simultaneously.

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I really don't understand what's all that fuss is all about.

When I discovered, that I could register my FM10 with Steam I was delighted. Especially, since I play FM both on Mac and PC and before Steam I had to keep DVD in my Mac's drive.

I think only three kinds of people will have any problems with this -

- Those, who buy one copy and use it on couple (or even more) computers, sharing the game with friends etc. In other words, pirates.

- People paranoid about privacy etc. And I really mean PARANOID, not 'aware' or anything like this. That kind of people who don't use gmail, because 'google reads their email, so the ads are relevant to the mail's content'.

- Those who just don't understand what steam is and are scared of new things.

For any other, normal, user this move makes total sense. Steam came out like 5, 6 years ago? Maybe even earlier, I don't remember, but it's a really good program. Millions of people use it every day and have no problems with it.

-And yes, you can't resale game. That's true. But what's the resale value of FM11 now? 5$? Cmon.

-If anything happen with your account you can easily get it back with help from their help support, the only thing you'll need is the cd-key of the first game you registered there.

-It requires internet connection only once, to install and activate game. Then, you can turn on offline mode and stay in it for months (at least, never tried that for longer then 2). And if you're going to say 'I will not remain logged in on my personal computer because it's not safe' - you're paranoid. That's it.

-Steam has the ability to store savegames, but I don't think FM will use it - their saves are too big.

-You can use any datapacks, facepacks, kitpacks etc when using FM on steam, it'll be just in different folder.

-This program uses hardly no resources at all, so don't be afraid, that your computer will run slower.

-Game autoupdates when online, which is really convenient.

-There is no reason why there should be any problem with activating FM on the first day - first of all, it's not the most popular game on the earth and secondly - Steam really has experience with this.

And the person who asked wheter you can buy FM on Steam - yes, with CC, paypal or in some other way.

So there's that. Good move. Thumbs up SI.

And anyone, who is unsure because some people say it's the end of the world - don't worry, Steam works great and you all will be fine.

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And you terms are really stupid. It's like saying that they cant share a car and have to buy 2 cars, or cant listen to a music record because they havent bought two. I understand that piracy is hurting your company financially but the fact is that YOU CANT STOP PIRACY!!! What you can do and did is **** off a lot of people ( like me ) who hate steam. Also fun fact: Piracy isnt only a bad thing, without it Football Manager wouldn't be as big ( in terms of reputation and community ) as it is today, just like in the music or movie industry, without piracy i really doubt that Metallica would be as big as they are, or Coldplay or any other band.

Although I agree with your reasoning, in terms of brothers having to buy 2 copies of the game who live in the same house. The fact that you are effectively justifying piracy, which not only costs SI and other game makers but also the consumer (YOU!) is just baffling. If piracy didn't exist SI wouldn't have to spend time, money and resources having to combat it and that cost is reflected in the game price. Simple. It's also the reason why everyone has to use Steam.

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I live in Rural Shropshire and do not have access to the internet! Does this mean that because of this I cannot play football manager???

Also are you selling the game in shops with the Disk? If so what is the point if we have to use steam anyway? Really not happy with this news and may be the first time in 12 years that I do not purchase the game!

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And you terms are really stupid. It's like saying that they cant share a car and have to buy 2 cars, or cant listen to a music record because they havent bought two. I understand that piracy is hurting your company financially but the fact is that YOU CANT STOP PIRACY!!! What you can do and did is **** off a lot of people ( like me ) who hate steam. Also fun fact: Piracy isnt only a bad thing, without it Football Manager wouldn't be as big ( in terms of reputation and community ) as it is today, just like in the music or movie industry, without piracy i really doubt that Metallica would be as big as they are, or Coldplay or any other band.

I've never read any solid evidence to suggest that piracy actually increase sales of anything. At best any evidence behind it that I've seen has always been circumstantial. It's certainly not the case with Football Manager though.

More people play the game pirated each year than do legally. To say that piracy helps sales when that's the case is just rubbish. Piracy is illegal and it threatens the continuation of any creative product including FM.

FM selling more games is to the benefit of those who buy the game legally as well. The more we sell, the more is invested into the studio and the more progress we can make with each iteration.

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EULA's have the legal powers of something scribbled on a snotty napkin.

The law usually says if you buy something you own the title and can do what you like, and putting it on two computers isn't against the law no matter what the "EULA" says. Especially if he doesn't circumvent any copy protection to do so.

Don't quote me on that, but I'm just saying that the reality isn't going to be black and white.

Anyway, I already pre-ordered on steam.

You're paying for the license to use the game, not the game itself.

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I live in Rural Shropshire and do not have access to the internet! Does this mean that because of this I cannot play football manager???

Also are you selling the game in shops with the Disk? If so what is the point if we have to use steam anyway? Really not happy with this news and may be the first time in 12 years that I do not purchase the game!

Yes we're still selling the game in shops with the disc but you have to activate it once online to be able to use it.

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Just because you, or even many people think its a great service doesnt mean we want it, or should have to have it. I heard the blonde at the local brothel provides a great service, i dont want that though, and certainly wouldnt want it forced on me!

If you don't want it don't get the game. I'm sure the 19,853 current FM11 players on Steam will be fine with picking up FM12 on Steam.

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It seems like the only way to play this game without steam is by waiting for the pirated version..

I really hope that the one time steam activation will combat piracy, but do you have any figures that prove that steam activated games are less pirated? To me the decision seems to be more based on nudging us towards the use of steam. I would not at all be surprised if Steam pays you guys for the extra signed up members, because everyone who downloads steam will see the ads. This makes the decision perfectly logical, but hardly made out of security reasons.

These are just my 2 cents and I may be completely wrong, but a quick search shows that all the popular Steam titles are available on the common torrent websites and makes me doubt that the nuisance for paying customers is worth it.

  • On a completely different note: When (And I say when because I will buy it) I activate my CD through steam, does that mean that I no longer have to play with the CD?

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Come on, lol

I'm sure you don't lead a whiter than white lifestyle unless you're planning on becoming a choirboy.

That's not the issue. we've seen a few people already posting that they openly ignore the agreemnet they signed & such statements will just serve to cement SI/SEGA in having steam only activation.

If people were only willing to pay what is required in full & not exploit loopholes to get a free lunch then we would be in a much better place but I'm afraid such a place is just a pipe dream.

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I live in Rural Shropshire and do not have access to the internet! Does this mean that because of this I cannot play football manager???

Also are you selling the game in shops with the Disk? If so what is the point if we have to use steam anyway? Really not happy with this news and may be the first time in 12 years that I do not purchase the game!

Without stating the obvious, you just posted on an online forum..

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Yes we're still selling the game in shops with the disc but you have to activate it once online to be able to use it.

So what about people that dont have the internet :applause:

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I've never read any solid evidence to suggest that piracy actually increase sales of anything. At best any evidence behind it that I've seen has always been circumstantial. It's certainly not the case with Football Manager though.

More people play the game pirated each year than do legally. To say that piracy helps sales when that's the case is just rubbish. Piracy is illegal and it threatens the continuation of any creative product including FM.

FM selling more games is to the benefit of those who buy the game legally as well. The more we sell, the more is invested into the studio and the more progress we can make with each iteration.

Of course, it's terrible that so many people pirate a title. It doesn't give the people who work on it the credit they deserve.

Piracy is a big problem but the games industry (and other industries) need to think of better ways to overcome it, or earn money. In game advertisements would be one way (as even pirates are exposed to them, if they can't be turned off.) - although some people will see that as an even worse move than using Steam :D

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Yes we're still selling the game in shops with the disc but you have to activate it once online to be able to use it.

but will FM12 run once activated if I have no internet access?

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Bertie BG - "More people play the game pirated each year than do legally." - Complete crap, now SI are even resorting to bull to try to wriggle out of this one.

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Without stating the obvious, you just posted on an online forum..

Without stating the flipping obvious mate, most of us have mobile phones!

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It seems like the only way to play this game without steam is by waiting for the pirated version..

I really hope that the one time steam activation will combat piracy, but do you have any figures that prove that steam activated games are less pirated? To me the decision seems to be more based on nudging us towards the use of steam. I would not at all be surprised if Steam pays you guys for the extra signed up members, because everyone who downloads steam will see the ads. This makes the decision perfectly logical, but hardly made out of security reasons.

These are just my 2 cents and I may be completely wrong, but a quick search shows that all the popular Steam titles are available on the common torrent websites and makes me doubt that the nuisance for paying customers is worth it.

  • On a completely different note: When (And I say when because I will buy it) I activate my CD through steam, does that mean that I no longer have to play with the CD?

Firstly, as has already been stated no money changed hands with Steam. We're using them because we feel they offer the best system for combating piracy that is currently available.

To answer your question. Once activated through Steam you won't need the CD any more.

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No overreaction here and no hysterics. I just don't want Steam on my computer. I've installed it before, didn't like it and have never installed it since. In this day and age, it is nice to have a choice to be honest. I don't like having to pay my hard earned money for a game then be told I have to install a piece of Software I don't want, to be able to play it.

I've bought every single game this company has produced and even bought extra copies when i've been stupid enough to lose a copy. Piracy?

You've just lost a customer.

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Firstly, as has already been stated no money changed hands with Steam. We're using them because we feel they offer the best system for combating piracy that is currently available.

To answer your question. Once activated through Steam you won't need the CD any more.

So why spend X amount of £'s making CD/DVD's of the game when after the inital activation they are basically useless? Did a 4 year old think this system through?

And if everybody needs internet access and Steam to activate anyway, people may aswell just buy it through steam. Are you sure you havent taken any money off Steam?

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The box will clearly state you need the internet and steam to play, so really it would be the fault of the person buying the game if that happened.

Will this not cause a lot of casual gamers to not bother with the game at all? Pick up the box and read " must have internet and steam to play this game", thinks to himself, "i dont have internet at uni/on the train/ or wherever, and what the heck is steam!"

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