A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[Guest]

That's what I meant Ackter, damn my useless command of the English language.

[SeanNUFC]

I've installed Steam, in the past, for FM09... (as I keep saying, only game and all that...) and it is because I've used it in the past that I won't use it again!

Mind expanding on why rather than just moaning?

[Smurf]

I've installed Steam, in the past, for FM09... (as I keep saying, only game and all that...) and it is because I've used it in the past that I won't use it again!

If we could play FM12 without Steam I'd quite happily pay double what you monkeys that will buy it with Steam, it's not about piracy to me, it's about being forced to use something I don't like nor want to use despite me paying hard-earned cash for it! I should have the choice... the only choice I have is install steam and play the game or don't install steam and don't play the game... it will be the latter

You don't have to buy it with Steam! You just have to activate it with Steam. You can buy it in the shop. Once installed, turn Steam to offline mode. You won't get any further notices or updates. It will sit there quietly.

Start FM - quit out of Steam. Once FM is up and running no need to have Steam open or running.

You have not yet said why you won't install it? What bad experience did you have with FM09 and why won't you use it again???

Steam is FREE. It does nothing to your user experience. Except a 2 minute download. A 1 minute install. Bang you can play FM12.

Quit Steam once FM12 is running.

[telV7]

You use itunes at all? Or do you refuse to use that because you don't like onions?

Steam is great, if you have a PC good enough to run FM then the small usage of Steam wont affect it. It's never been intrusive for me, what is everyone's problem?

Would you use itunes to play just one song is more the point.

[Dune297]

Yes, but people new to Steam need to be aware of a) there is the potential of having accounts hacked and being unrecoverable (the same as any other online service) and b) that steam does not have a customer support system that would be deemed appropriate in most EU countries.

The only way your account can be hacked is out of your own stupidity. The only hacked accounts are ones of unintelligent people who can't look out for themselves. When somebody messages you

Free games! Just log into steamhacksite.com/dirt3 and they'll be on your account in a jiffy!

are you really going to fall for that? If you answered no to that question you won't be hacked. With the new Steam Guard feature, it's basically impossible.

[milnerpoint]

Yes, but people new to Steam need to be aware of a) there is the potential of having accounts hacked and being unrecoverable (the same as any other online service) and b) that steam does not have a customer support system that would be deemed appropriate in most EU countries.

If your not aware in today's age that anything you do online can be hacked then your living in another universe.

[stevie_G_32201]

I'll bookmark this thread & post the first FM12 torrent link when it becomes available, £5 says I find one before the game can be activated on Steam.

A whole fiver? now THATS confidence

[Bertie BG]

But is it also a step towards moving the game to a solely digital release in the future?

That's not the motivation behind this, whatever the conspiracy theorist in you might like you to think. The motivation is combating piracy, pure and simple and this is felt to be a step forward in that regard.

I'll bookmark this thread & post the first FM12 torrent link when it becomes available, £5 says I find one before the game can be activated on Steam.

As Ackter said, you'd be banned if you did. Do let us know of any possible illegal copies of the game at piracy (at) sigames.com though. Would be greatly appreciated.

[Neil Brock]

There is some real bizarre logic in this thread. Simply put we're running with Steam for this release. If you don't like it, we're sorry but it's not going to change for this release. If you don't want to buy the game simply because you don't want to have to use Steam then you won't buy the game. I don't know why some people are arguing over the fact they're not going to buy the game? Either you are or you aren't, there's not much we can do about that other than reassure you that we feel Steam is the best choice for Football Manager.

[Wakers]

If your not aware in today's age that anything you do online can be hacked then your living in another universe.

It doesn't occur to people though. And @Dune - if you think that's the only way Steam accounts get hacked then..I don't know where to start to be honest. Yes, it's usually the customers own fault, but the customer is not going to see it like that.

[tacticalmaster]

yes u will guaranteed,it will be just as easy as any other year to crack this game,pirates will never stop.deus x was oirated on bit torrent before it hit the shops.

[Cougar2010]

you cant use an Ipod unless you have the internet and use Itunes, i dont see anyone kicking up a huge fuss over that.

Those two products come hand in hand though and people who aren't happy don't have an Ipod.

The problem with FM/Steam is that Steam is not a SI product nor even a Sega product and forcing a third party piece of software onto a consumer will only have a negative effect.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that Steam will also force people to play with the latest patch with no option of rolling back to a previous version. Not that this would bother me but just looking at the forums I can also see this being another issue for many users.

[Guest]

A whole fiver? now THATS confidence

I've recently been made redundant so until I find a new job a fiver is about as good as it gets.

[David Kempshall]

you will never stop piracy,steam wont stop it,there will be a crack on the internet in the first week that the game is out.you wont need to activate it then.so why use steam its not going to stop the f k r s who do this.

However, if we find a solution that we think helps combat piracy, which is a huge issue for both SEGA & SI then we are obliged to use this. Honestly, other developers and publishers have been put out of business due to piracy and from a moral stance, and to ensure that future versions of FM happen, this was a decision that was made after a lot of consideration. Combatting piracy is the sole reason for activation being required on FM12, and whilst we know it's not 100% effective, it's the most suitable and best method available.

[Dune297]

It doesn't occur to people though. And @Dune - if you think that's the only way Steam accounts get hacked then..I don't know where to start to be honest. Yes, it's usually the customers own fault, but the customer is not going to see it like that.

Nowadays it actually is. If you read the steam forums at all you'll know that the only real scams are from messages like that. I haven't seen a Steam keylogger or fake email in ages.

[Wakers]

There is some real bizarre logic in this thread. Simply put we're running with Steam for this release. If you don't like it, we're sorry but it's not going to change for this release. If you don't want to buy the game simply because you don't want to have to use Steam then you won't buy the game. I don't know why some people are arguing over the fact they're not going to buy the game? Either you are or you aren't, there's not much we can do about that other than reassure you that we feel Steam is the best choice for Football Manager.

It is quite funny how things like Steam (and DRM in general) bring out some really extreme opinions

Fwiw, because I sense that some of the people here are about to virtually lynch me - I will be buying the game regardless of Steam. I'll just be very pissy when it won't let me play it for a day, or an hour or a few minutes - because even that is an inconvenience that I really shouldn't have to deal with, as pithy as that is over playing a game.

[Herter]

Yes, but people new to Steam need to be aware of a) there is the potential of having accounts hacked and being unrecoverable (the same as any other online service) and b) that steam does not have a customer support system that would be deemed appropriate in most EU countries.

I agree on the accounts hacked, but to be honest no one I know has had this happened.. and I know ALOT of people that use steam.. so I guess it is quite rare.

[Suzie MUFC]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is that Steam will also force people to play with the latest patch with no option of rolling back to a previous version. Not that this would bother me but just looking at the forums I can also see this being another issue for many users.

Never thought of that. There have been quite a few times with past versions where I've felt the need to roll back on the patches. Won't be an option with Steam. What if there's a bug in a patch which causes the game not to function properly on some people's machines? It'll be unplayable until/if it gets fixed.

[Wakers]

Nowadays it actually is. If you read the steam forums at all you'll know that the only real scams are from messages like that. I haven't seen a Steam keylogger or fake email in ages.

There is no specific "Steam keylogger". The majority of any online service hacks come from insecure email accounts. I don't get why you think they are the only scams because they are the only ones that people see on the forums? They are the least effective but easiest way of hacking, which is why there are so many.

[Guest]

As Ackter said, you'd be banned if you did. Do let us know of any possible illegal copies of the game at piracy (at) sigames.com though. Would be greatly appreciated.

I have never done so in the past as TBH I have had no cause to go anywhere near the sites that would have cracked copies but in the interest of trying to prove that Steam only activation does not reduce the hacker market I will be more than happy to email SI.

Hopefully a solution that will please all legitimate users of the game will be considered over the next 12 months, I'm sure there is an innovate option out there.

Anyway I really should be getting back to my FM11 save.

[7Bestie7]

How, exactly? Windows Defender is not only part of the OS itself, but it is optional. Steam is not part of the FM application and it is not optional. So really, it's nothing like buying a PC.

When the Defender was first introduced and people found that it was constantly asking permission before using programs, the amount of annoyance and uproar was easily the same/more as what is in this thread. Even by turning the Defender off it still was being turned back on by updates or "randomness" by the OS because it had been designed to BE USED WITH the Defender. The Defender is not a core aspect of Windows until it was introduced as an additional component. While Steam is not made by SI/SEGA, it is now an intrinsic part of FM 2012's usage so the parallels are easily seen. If SI/SEGA decide to continue with using Stream over the next few versions then any issues can/will be worked out between the two companies. You buy product A and you are required to have (a free) product B in order to use it. Microsoft has done it down the years just to push their products while this decision is an actual attempt to avoid piracy/illegal activities.

Oh, and just to remind people. If the piracy escalates beyond a certain point, it would become financially viable to not actually make any more FM games. Like I've said before, I might not be happy with this arrangement but if it keeps FM going then I'll suck it up and accept that I can't get what I want every time.

[Herter]

Ok, I'll install Steam the day they make it Open Source, deal?

Hmm.. sounds like a unfair deal to me as Steam will never become open source.. - how about you install it if they give you some special deal with FM2012 for £10? and I'll uninstall it if I dont win CL with a danish club before you install steam! Deal?

[SeanNUFC]

Whats all this about steam accounts being hacked? Never heard of any problems.

[Dune297]

There is no specific "Steam keylogger". The majority of any online service hacks come from insecure email accounts. I don't get why you think they are the only scams because they are the only ones that people see on the forums? They are the least effective but easiest way of hacking, which is why there are so many.

Hacking email accounts for the sole purpose of Steam isn't very common.

[milnerpoint]

It doesn't occur to people though. And @Dune - if you think that's the only way Steam accounts get hacked then..I don't know where to start to be honest. Yes, it's usually the customers own fault, but the customer is not going to see it like that.

anyone who doesnt know they can be hacked should not be on the net, they will be a danger to themselves and to their privacy.

[Katarian]

This is not anti piracy measures at all though. Steam games can be cracked very easily (for example.. CSS and newer games such as Red Orchestra) - same as any other game.

I myself personally, have around 30 games or so on Steam, including FM2011, and am fine with the move. But there are consequences for the average consumer when taking this decision.

Edit: I would personally make the game a GFWL game. Let people have Xbox Live achievements - just this will get people to buy it. It will also open the game up to different markets. Yes, GFWL games can be played even without a cd key - but this is same with any other game.

Games For Windows Live is absolutely horrible compared to Steam. I would prefer the game didn't use Steam (the only thing I like about Steam is the auto patching, and even that is a double edged sword at times), but GfWL is much much worse .

[Suzie MUFC]

Whats all this about steam accounts being hacked? Never heard of any problems.

I know of a couple of people it's happened to and they had to come to these forums for answers because Steam customer service weren't replying to emails.

[Guest]

<br>

As Ackter said, you'd be banned if you did. Do let us know of any possible illegal copies of the game at piracy (at) sigames.com though. Would be greatly appreciated.

I have never done so in the past as TBH I have had no cause to go anywhere near the sites that would have cracked copies but in the interest of trying to prove that Steam only activation does not reduce the hacker market I will be more than happy to email SI. Hopefully a solution that will please all legitimate users of the game will be considered over the next 12 months, I'm sure there is an innovate option out there.

[Smurf]

There is some real bizarre logic in this thread. Simply put we're running with Steam for this release. If you don't like it, we're sorry but it's not going to change for this release. If you don't want to buy the game simply because you don't want to have to use Steam then you won't buy the game. I don't know why some people are arguing over the fact they're not going to buy the game? Either you are or you aren't, there's not much we can do about that other than reassure you that we feel Steam is the best choice for Football Manager.

Because, Neil, some of these people are sitting with tinfoil hats on as they post here.

It might have been best to not say anything and have Steam install when you install the game, then run in the background. I don't think anyone who is afraid of Steam would have noticed.

[Wakers]

anyone who doesnt know they can be hacked should not be on the net, they will be a danger to themselves and to their privacy.

While somewhat valid, it's not realistic.

And @ Dune - No, of course it isn't. However, hacking of emails is very common. And when they look through an account and find emails from Steam, they will see if they can get into the Steam account.

[Dave80]

you will never stop piracy,steam wont stop it,there will be a crack on the internet in the first week that the game is out.you wont need to activate it then.so why use steam its not going to stop the f k r s who do this.

With that kind of attitude nothing would ever get done in the world. The fact is, the harder you make it for the pirates the more likely it is that they'll slip up and make a mistake - THEN they can catch them. Sitting around doing nothing and expecting to catch them would just be madness.

I've had Steam for almost 2 and a half years and I've never had an issue - infact the deals they have on games are actually really good, sometimes up to 75% off! Plus auto-updates and the ability to have your games anywhere any time. I don't know how many times I've lost the disks to games in the past - this eliminates the need for disks.

If you don't want to buy FM purely on the basis of the way it is activated then that's a real shame to be honest, you'll be missing out.

[Dune297]

While somewhat valid, it's not realistic.

And @ Dune - No, of course it isn't. However, hacking of emails is very common. And when they look through an account and find emails from Steam, they will see if they can get into the Steam account.

I doubt they'll be after your Steam account if they are hacking your email. It's probably the last thing on their mind. They won't make any money off of the account, it's simply a luxury item which will be locked as soon as Steam find out about the breach.

[0gris]

People will moan, regardless of what happens, it's human nature. Steam isn't that bad, honestly, you'll hate it due to the great wallet raping deals it does, and it will remind you of them(It's the only reason steam news pops up, new games and weekly/daily deals). Did i mention the great support and how kind valve is? They gave out FREE copies of left for dead when infinity ward ballsed up with a modern warfare 2 as an apology. They gave them out when they had nothing to do with the error WHATSOEVER.

Now honestly, some people might complain that steam is a resource hog, and that launching a program just to start a game is too much. They have a point, but everyone has 2 gigabytes of ram nowadays. And unlike every other DRM system, steam has things that encourage you to use it such as a friends list, a steam community system that is integrated with every game, steam cloud, store, great deals... Really, there is no reason to fear it or hate it.

Unless someone can actually give a valid reason as to why steam activation is a bad thing?

[Kriss]

As one of those who went puce and made all sorts of accusations about Steam before I ever used it I can only think of all these objections as the ramblings of computing dinosaurs tbh, and believe me I have more right to be dinosauristic than most (as Ackter will rush to assure you)

Fact is, Steam doesn't hurt you or your PC, it does give access to lots of goodies (take 'em or leave 'em)

One valid issue to some people would be not being able to roll back patch versions, other than that I'd say give FM12 with Steam a try, I really don't think you'll be dissappointed.

[Wakers]

I doubt they'll be after your Steam account if they are hacking your email. It's probably the last thing on their mind. They won't make any money off of the account, it's simply a luxury item which will be locked as soon as Steam find out about the breach.

No, they try and get into everything.

[milnerpoint]

While somewhat valid, it's not realistic.

And @ Dune - No, of course it isn't. However, hacking of emails is very common. And when they look through an account and find emails from Steam, they will see if they can get into the Steam account.

Again tho in todays world, anyone not aware that any online activity can be hacked is a danger to their own privacy, hacking of steam accounts is a very thin reasoning for not using steam, i've had it for years, so have my pals and never heard of a problem, not when compared to amount of people who's xbox live accounts were hacked for Halo Armour and what have you. The only way really to lose your steam account is through your own mistakes, the chances of it being hacked without you giving away details is so slim its hardly worth thinking about.

[Lazaru5]

However, if we find a solution that we think helps combat piracy, which is a huge issue for both SEGA & SI then we are obliged to use this. Honestly, other developers and publishers have been put out of business due to piracy and from a moral stance, and to ensure that future versions of FM happen, this was a decision that was made after a lot of consideration. Combatting piracy is the sole reason for activation being required on FM12, and whilst we know it's not 100% effective, it's the most suitable and best method available.

I don't have a problem with the activation being required, David, but I don't want to install a pos software like Steam to play the only game I play... I simply will no longer be playing any games (or at least any future ones, FM11 will remain) if that is the only way that I can... surely there must be a different solution available for people like me that are more concerned with privacy and security than they are about playing a game? If there isn't, you're missing out on a lot of potential customers...

[Smurf]

Your concerns for privacy are deluded, imo.

[Siven]

Can i make a suggestion.

I think Eugene posted thsi in the poll thread, but SI should make a blog detailed what Steam is, what it can do, what little resources it uses compared to other typical apps people use and things like that.

There seems to be lots of mis-information around and dare i say it but it seems to me that many of the complaints about steam come from the older generation (im 31 started out on an Atari, then PS1 and then onto PC).

[pigfacemonkeyman]

The research done by the guys at SEGA think it will have a positive impact and so it's happening. It really is a war against piracy (and piracy, whatever some people will have you think, really is risking destroying creative industries, not just gaming) and this is FM's next move in attempting to combat it.

And would these be the same guys that were in charge of security on the SEGA site?

[Wakers]

I think, for me, the basic issue is;

Steam does not deter pirates. If someone wants to pirate the game, they will. Steam will have no bearing on that.

Steam can (not will, not always, and not it definitely will because I know someone who's had a bad experience and therefore everyone has a bad experience!!!+1!) have a negative impact on the customer, in a number of potential ways.

I don't see how this is progress.

[Dave80]

I don't have a problem with the activation being required, David, but I don't want to install a pos software like Steam to play the only game I play... I simply will no longer be playing any games (or at least any future ones, FM11 will remain) if that is the only way that I can... surely there must be a different solution available for people like me that are more concerned with privacy and security than they are about playing a game? If there isn't, you're missing out on a lot of potential customers...

In terms of "Privacy and Security", what do you refer to?

[Wakers]

And would these be the same guys that were in charge of security on the SEGA site?

Low blow

[milnerpoint]

I don't have a problem with the activation being required, David, but I don't want to install a pos software like Steam to play the only game I play... I simply will no longer be playing any games (or at least any future ones, FM11 will remain) if that is the only way that I can... surely there must be a different solution available for people like me that are more concerned with privacy and security than they are about playing a game? If there isn't, you're missing out on a lot of potential customers...

there are no privacy or security issues with steam, no more so than any internet application, if you think otherwise your really kidding yourself on laz.

[Dave80]

I think, for me, the basic issue is;

Steam does not deter pirates. If someone wants to pirate the game, they will. Steam will have no bearing on that.

Steam can (not will, not always, and not it definitely will because I know someone who's had a bad experience and therefore everyone has a bad experience!!!+1!) have a negative impact on the customer, in a number of potential ways.

I don't see how this is progress.

In terms of "in a number of a potential ways" what do you refer to?

[DMaster2]

Steam, bleah.

Very bad move SI

[David Kempshall]

Can i make a suggestion.

I think Eugene posted thsi in the poll thread, but SI should make a blog detailed what Steam is, what it can do, what little resources it uses compared to other typical apps people use and things like that.

There seems to be lots of mis-information around and dare i say it but it seems to me that many of the complaints about steam come from the older generation (im 31 started out on an Atari, then PS1 and then onto PC).

Thanks for the suggestion Siven - we'll look into it.

[Keyzer Soze]

However, if we find a solution that we think helps combat piracy, which is a huge issue for both SEGA & SI then we are obliged to use this. Honestly, other developers and publishers have been put out of business due to piracy and from a moral stance, and to ensure that future versions of FM happen, this was a decision that was made after a lot of consideration. Combatting piracy is the sole reason for activation being required on FM12, and whilst we know it's not 100% effective, it's the most suitable and best method available.

Hi David,

Can you estimate the amount of illegal copys will be reduced? in a previous post you said that now it's about 25% of illegal copys... with this method... do you have an estimate?

[jpwild]

However, if we find a solution that we think helps combat piracy, which is a huge issue for both SEGA & SI then we are obliged to use this. Honestly, other developers and publishers have been put out of business due to piracy and from a moral stance, and to ensure that future versions of FM happen, this was a decision that was made after a lot of consideration. Combatting piracy is the sole reason for activation being required on FM12, and whilst we know it's not 100% effective, it's the most suitable and best method available.

Steam linked games have been hacked and leaked on to the 'net, so I suspect the same may happen with FM 2012.

However, is the real reason to go down this route is to stop the sale of second hand FM games and to stop the sale of Fm2012 before the official release. Okay, not so much top, but maybe to stop people playing the game before the official release date?

A lot of quality games are out over the next few months. Football Manager 2012 will not be one that I will purchase if it has this compulsory element to it.

[Bertie BG]

Steam linked games have been hacked and leaked on to the 'net, so I suspect the same may happen with FM 2012.

However, is the real reason to go down this route is to stop the sale of second hand FM games and to stop the sale of Fm2012 before the official release. Okay, not so much top, but maybe to stop people playing the game before the official release date?

A lot of quality games are out over the next few months. Football Manager 2012 will not be one that I will purchase if it has this compulsory element to it.

Most people who play the game before the official release date (I'm not including those few naughty retailers who send things out early!) will be playing pirated copies.

If this stopping people playing before the release date reduces piracy then yes that will be a reason why we're doing this.