A Message On Football Manager 2012 Activation

[SeanNUFC]

You can turn off auto-patching. I think you can re-install the game without patches if need be, but I'm not sure.

Yep, you can turn off auto patching.

[Ackter]

You can turn off auto-patching. I think you can re-install the game without patches if need be, but I'm not sure.

Except you won't get to choose which patch to use so you either play unpatched or with the latest one.

[SeanNUFC]

I think you can choose which patch. Not sure.

[CityAndColour]

I've only read the first couple of pages so it has likely been covered, but does using Steam still mean the user has no choice in which patch he/she uses, and can't revert back to a previous patch if desired?

EDIT - never mind, just read about five posts up.

[Romanista.]

You can choose to install from the CD when activating using Steam.

:confused: it didnt give me any option when i installed fm10.

[Chris Ritchie]

I think you can choose which patch. Not sure.

Any chance you could check it?

[gugga78]

A hackers always won in the past and this will be also in the future...

I haven't any problem with buying the original cd, but I haven't trust in the steam. I guess it will cause many problems...

The pirates did a good advertisments for SEGA on many forums and now will be only a few players with original cd = less informations on the web.

I am curious about the gains from the sale after this measures

[Flukey]

The only question I have is will Steam be able to cope with the demand in activation on release day? I remember before the sheer demand to activate took steam's servers down.

Personally I like this way of activation. You only need to use an internet connection once to activate, after that it will run as you expect without any issues.

[milnerpoint]

nah you cant, if you download the game now you can only play on the newest patch, you can only choose not to update the original game if you buy it when it comes out any downloads after the patches are released will have the newest patch on the game.

[Cougar2010]

I think you can choose which patch. Not sure.

You can't, if you download the game from Steam you get the latest version.

If you have the disk I presume you could install that version and turn off auto update but I'm not 100% about that.

[Ackter]

You can't, if you download the game from Steam you get the latest version.

If you have the disk I presume you could install that version and turn off auto update but I'm not 100% about that.

That may be possible, and I assume SI will be providing the patch files for download outside of Steam, but I've not tried it myself.

[jakobx]

Wakers - apologies if you struggle to believe this, but we can 100% say that it is te actual reason.

Perhaps you should fire those people who think its going to help against piracy. Its quite obvious they are incompetent.

[Siven]

I get the feeling Steam and apps like it are the future folks, so if i may be blunt, get used to it.

EA have Origins which imo will require their games to use in the future (I'm pretty sure BF3 will require it and i expect more of their future games to also). Some games require you to use Games for Windows Live, and if the Win8 talk is true it will be rebranded to Xbox Live (which is what it is anyway) and be packaged into Win8. And then Steam has won many fans and has very few drawbacks.

Maybe its just me, but i see a future of apps like these for PC gaming.

[Chris Ritchie]

That may be possible, and I assume SI will be providing the patch files for download outside of Steam, but I've not tried it myself.

iirc you can't patch a Steam version to 11.2 with a patch downloaded from the website. It's Steam's latest patch or no patch at all.

[Ackter]

iirc you can't patch a Steam version to 11.2 with a patch downloaded from the website. It's Steam's latest patch or no patch at all.

Hopefully SI will work something out for it.

[Cougar2010]

That may be possible, and I assume SI will be providing the patch files for download outside of Steam, but I've not tried it myself.

Why would they provide patch downloads outside Steam when its needed to play?

I would say all patching will be via Steam.

[SeanNUFC]

EDIT - never mind, just read about five posts up.

Always a smart thing to do.

[rooney8]

not happy about having to use steam to activate the game as I feel that it is an awful programme and had nothing but problems with it the last time in regards to updates and getting on the game.

[Herter]

You have clearly forgotten the 2008 release day debacle. Your line about not buying the game is pathetic by the way (only 1 step removed from "go play FIFA", "wens da demo owt" or "wot taktix werks") however I would like to say that I will buy the game on day one, I am looking forward to it that much however I am dreading the activation (due to the 2008 experience).

haha.. this made me laugh.. How was my line pathetic? You, and others, acting like spoilt little kids isnt pathetic? - And to be honest, your comparison of my "line" to those you suggest is just sad.. even for someone like you..

Maybe SI can assure us that the game will be labelled with a very large clear warning that internet access is required to play the game, rather than as a footnote in small print. Maybe SI can confirm 100% that the 2008 issues (we all know what caused them) cannot happen this year. Of course SI cannot do the latter because by involving activation like this they are leaving the back door unlocked to the kind of "Terrorists" that attacked the servers back then.

You cannot compare a situation 4 years ago to the FM12 situation.. 4 years is a lifetime in technology. And since Steam works flawlessly for most games I'd bet money on that the activation of FM will work flawlessly also.. - but yeah, ***** can happen unfortunately.

As for Steam, unless I completely Uninstall I get it popping up lots when I dont want it to (may be in part a Vista issue but Steam is the source of the problem, so here I am having to install 3rd party software I already cannot wait to completely remove again.

You can turn off all notification from Steam and also you can turn off all notifications from Vista (except if a restart is required..)

Yesterday I felt like an excited customer looking forward to 21/10/11, now I feel like a mug punter, to be honest.

Thats too bad..

..........

[max-riot]

over 6 pages and not bothered to read through them to see if this has been stated.

This link with steam has nothing to do with stopping piracy.... just a corporate link up to bring us advertising drivel while we play the game...

[roykela]

Was really looking forward to FM12, but now.....not so much.

Haven't decided yet, whether to get it or not, but leaning towards not getting it.

I just don't want my copy of FM to have anything to do with Steam.

One little (other) thing that made me a bit curious; 2 brothers sharing one copy. Installed on 2 different computers. Is technically (maybe even literally) not allowed.

But 2 people one computer, in a hotseat game, is ok.

How come one is a potentially lost sale (i guess that's why all those tiny little details are there for, to prevent lost sales), and the other not? I don't get the logic.

If the hotseat game is "not allowed" anymore, then it's changed at some point, and me not being aware of it

Finally...it feels like, to me, that continuing to fight piracy by limiting legal owners/gamers of the game, is just going to add fuel to the fire.

You're actually letting the pirates win. That's just what i feel about it, without putting too much thought into it.

[Lord Rowell]

OK, apologies if there is some repetition of earlier themes here but I want to ask 3 questions. Answerable by SI or anyone else who can provide clarification.

1. If I don't have an internet connection, how do you propose I play FM12?

2. If I buy FM12 as a Christmas stocking filler for my two or more children, nephews/nieces etc, can they play it within the same household on different computers i.e. their own laptops/PC's etc?

3. Can I give my copy of FM12 to someone else e.g. a friend, relative, charity shop and expect that they will be able to play it?

Thanks in advance.

[gmilitao]

We've also never said that we think a pirated game equals a lost sale. What we've said is IF 25% of those who pirated the game bought it, we believe our world wide sales figures would double. We're not saying that's going to happen (although it would be great if it did) all we're trying to do is highlight the problem that piracy brings to Football Manager and tell you the reasons why we're trying to battle it.

1 pirated game might not equal 1 lost sale, but surely you must accept that IF the game wasn't piratable (is that a word?) the game would sell more? Of course it would, that's just common sense.

More sales = more more money invested into SI as a studio which = a better game for the honest people who buy the game legally each year. That is our honest motivation behind all of this, if you can't believe or accept that then I'm sorry, there's not much more I can say.

Good point. If the money reverse in a better game for the fans, with all the features everone claims year after year and we don't saw in the previous versions of FM, it's a good decision. We want to have a complete game, with all the excelence FM Series have. But i'm affraid that SI and Sega fails in this "war against warez" like other companies fails year by year.

[SCIAG]

OK, apologies if there is some repetition of earlier themes here but I want to ask 3 questions. Answerable by SI or anyone else who can provide clarification.

1. If I don't have an internet connection, how do you propose I play FM12?

2. If I buy FM12 as a Christmas stocking filler for my two or more children, nephews/nieces etc, can they play it within the same household on different computers i.e. their own laptops/PC's etc?

3. Can I give my copy of FM12 to someone else e.g. a friend, relative, charity shop and expect that they will be able to play it?

Thanks in advance.

1. You can't.

2. No, not at the same time.

3. Yes, as long as you don't keep trying to play yourself.

[Ackter]

Was really looking forward to FM12, but now.....not so much.

Haven't decided yet, whether to get it or not, but leaning towards not getting it.

I just don't want my copy of FM to have anything to do with Steam.

One little (other) thing that made me a bit curious; 2 brothers sharing one copy. Installed on 2 different computers. Is technically (maybe even literally) not allowed.

But 2 people one computer, in a hotseat game, is ok.

How come one is a potentially lost sale (i guess that's why all those tiny little details are there for, to prevent lost sales), and the other not? I don't get the logic.

If the hotseat game is "not allowed" anymore, then it's changed at some point, and me not being aware of it

Finally...it feels like, to me, that continuing to fight piracy by limiting legal owners/gamers of the game, is just going to add fuel to the fire.

You're actually letting the pirates win. That's just what i feel about it, without putting too much thought into it.

A hot seat game is one copy of the game being used for one game - two people using the same disc to play separate games is one copy being used for two games. That's basically the distinction.

[Chris Ritchie]

Good point. If the money reverse in a better game for the fans, with all the features everone claims year after year and we don't saw in the previous versions of FM, it's a good decision. We want to have a complete game, with all the excelence FM Series have. But i'm affraid that SI and Sega fails in this "cruzade against warez" like other companies fails year by year.

I agree - more money definitely means a better product. I can't wait to watch Waterworld, then listen to Chinese Democracy. Total red herring.

[Cougar2010]

OK, apologies if there is some repetition of earlier themes here but I want to ask 3 questions. Answerable by SI or anyone else who can provide clarification.

1. If I don't have an internet connection, how do you propose I play FM12?

You can't/don't.

2. If I buy FM12 as a Christmas stocking filler for my two or more children, nephews/nieces etc, can they play it within the same household on different computers i.e. their own laptops/PC's etc?

One copy of the game can only be linked to one Steam account and played on one PC at any single time.

3. Can I give my copy of FM12 to someone else e.g. a friend, relative, charity shop and expect that they will be able to play it?

No.

[bcooper]

i play exclusively on a laptop. When you download steam and then activate your FM game, you can turn off the steam and play in offline mode and the game plays the same. I dont have to turn on Steam to play the game. It will automatically turn on when you start the game. The Steam application will recognize that it cant connect to the internet but cause you have played a game connected to the intenet and saved previously, you dont have to be connected to Steam to continue playing the game. I travel alot and sometimes dont have Internet access where i am and play just fine!!!!

Stop worrying about Steam all of you!!!!!

This is exactly my personal experience to be honest - I play via steam on my commute to work pretty much every day.

[tattoman65]

SI R.I.P this is the end

your going to lose far more sales this way ..

piracy you just dont understand it at all ....

If iv downloaded a pirate copy of a game and didnt like it ...i then would not buy the game ...

But on the other hand if i liked it , I WOULD THEN go out and buy it ...

the best way to beat piracy is a good game ...

it works just the same as downloading music or a moive .. if i liked it i would buy it

[wbabaggie]

SI R.I.P this is the end

your going to lose far more sales this way ..

piracy you just dont understand it at all ....

If iv downloaded a pirate copy of a game and didnt like it ...i then would not buy the game ...

But on the other hand if i liked it , I WOULD THEN go out and but it ...

the best way to beat piracy is a good game ...

it works just the same as downloading music or a moive .. if i liked it i would buy it

Isn't that what demos are for?

[Maple]

iirc you can't patch a Steam version to 11.2 with a patch downloaded from the website. It's Steam's latest patch or no patch at all.

If this is true, given the history of different flaws in different patches in the past, this is at least close to a show-stopper for me. I definitely don't want autoupdates I can't control but being able to update to any patch I want, rather than being forced onto the latest patch or no update at all.

For that matter, the Steam requirement makes me seriously reconsider my decision to buy the game.

In that case, I'm too conservative for my own good, I want a playable disc out of the box with no need to internet access or registration.

[roykela]

A hot seat game is one copy of the game being used for one game - two people using the same disc to play separate games is one copy being used for two games. That's basically the distinction.

Which basically isn't much of a difference then, if those two people are only playing against eachother, by connecting their computers together.

Simply because they don't want to see what the other one is doing. Stupid example, perhaps. But it's a reality for some.

But i'm pretty sure you know what i mean by it. Not trying to nitpick everything....but you know

The idea behind those regulations i get. But it's extremely flawed when it comes to the practical use of it.

Pretty much like the current "fight against piracy" thingy, going on. It's just adding fuel to the fire, for those without Steam.

[Viggo Vickers]

No problem for me, bought the last 2 FMs through Steam. I hope it pays off, as a bigger budget for FM from more sales would hopefully mean more features in future releases.

[Kriss]

A hackers always won in the past and this will be also in the future...

I haven't any problem with buying the original cd, but I haven't trust in the steam. I guess it will cause many problems...

The pirates did a good advertisments for SEGA on many forums and now will be only a few players with original cd = less informations on the web.

I am curious about the gains from the sale after this measures

Yup, making it as easy as possible for people to steal your product sure is a good marketing ploy:rolleyes:

[Ackter]

Which basically isn't much of a difference then, if those two people are only playing against eachother, by connecting their computers together.

Simply because they don't want to see what the other one is doing. Stupid example, perhaps. But it's a reality for some.

But i'm pretty sure you know what i mean by it. Not trying to nitpick everything....but you know

The idea behind those regulations i get. But it's extremely flawed when it comes to the practical use of it.

Pretty much like the current "fight against piracy" thingy, going on. It's just adding fuel to the fire, for those without Steam.

It's approximately £30 difference. It's the same with any other game. If you want to play local co-op, you need one copy. If you want to play any other form of co-op, you need multiple copies.

[roykela]

It's approximately £30 difference. It's the same with any other game. If you want to play local co-op, you need one copy. If you want to play any other form of co-op, you need multiple copies.

Yup. In other words. Trying to milk the most out of people by adding a lot of tiny details, that in reality, isn't really much of a difference.

[Ackter]

Yup. In other words. Trying to milk the most out of people by adding a lot of tiny details, that in reality, isn't really much of a difference.

How what I said translates into what you've said I have no idea.

[hehehemann]

I guess I shouldnt worry about not having the internet at home. I wont buy the game this year. First time since CM01/02 that I havent bought the game.

SI or SEGA - there are still many people who dont have the internet at home. Could you please offer us a way of playing the game if we purchase it.

[Chris Ritchie]

I really don't see "I should be able to give my mate my DVD so we can both play and he doesn't have to buy it" as a valid point tbh.

[Guest]

Just had a thought relating to an earlier reply.

Someone posted about being able to play the game in Germany as FM is blocked on steam when accessed from a German ISP so I was wondering if SI have considered a work around for any FM gamers who are based in Germany.

We (UK) still have a sizeable military presence, granted the numbers are nowhere near as large as when I lived out there but I'd still say there would be a reasonable number of potential customers who have just been wiped of the sales charts plus all the other residents in Germany who may have acquired the game though friends or relatives overseas will now be left with the choice of FIFAManager or a pirated copy of FM.

Does this decision impact on any other markerts that SI are excluded from due to licensing &/or other legal issues and I wonder if these markets already show a disproportionately high number of illegal copies in circulation

[x42bn6]

1 pirated game might not equal 1 lost sale, but surely you must accept that IF the game wasn't piratable (is that a word?) the game would sell more? Of course it would, that's just common sense.

No, it's not. It's game theory and much more complicated than that. You underestimate the power of word-of-mouth.

This series is heavily-pirated, partly because it is so awesome. However, pirates spread word-of-mouth too. In poorer nations, piracy will be close to 100% but then again, once that nation starts developing, or the game becomes really tempting, some of that percentage will turn into paying customers. You could not do that if piracy didn't exist.

If you like, you will get more direct benefits, but less indirect benefits.

Plus, there is the awkward area where pirates actually buy more. Stamp out piracy and you stamp out these customers.

There are some pirates whom you will never make money off - those aren't of your concern. Your concern is those who might buy but don't for whatever reasonable reason. Those people may pay you in the future. Not those who will never buy.

If your product sells 100 copies and is pirated 1000 times, there is no difference to your direct bottom line if your product sells 100 copies and is pirated 10000 times. The piracy rate is a bit of a misnomer. If your piracy rate is high, all it means is that you have more potential future customers to tap into - that's it.

Hi, as I've already said STEAM do not pay SEGA or SI for doing this, it's not done to push people to Steam, it's just that Steam provides the best anti piracy solution at the moment that is relatively unobtrusive to the consumer. The financial gain here, as we've been transparent about is that we think there not being pirated versions out there before the game is available to buy, and for the period we believe we can keep it protected after will increase sales.

Do you think this actually matters? Anyone who obtains your product before the actual release date is pirating, whether it's Steam-only or not. The product can be leaked whether it's Steam-only or not. Whether it's Steam-only or not does not matter.

We release the game on a disk to give consumers a choice of how to purchase it. You may not have a credit card for example. You may be not old enough to have a credit card, so you can go to the shop and pay in cash, rather than force you to buy online.

Strawman much? Nobody has said that you've reduced our choices in purchasing the software - you've reduced our choices in activating the software.

And it is a fact that more people play a pirated version of FM every year than buy it. I've seen the stats.

This is true for pretty much every single piece of software out there. Let's not pretend FM is special here.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

Look at that!

It's a far worse situation than many think. Please believe us when we say we've looked into whether we need to protect the game, what the benefits of each system are, how much they **** off the genuine buyer, and whether we should do this or not. It's been a process thats taken a few years, as I posted this time last year. We think we have a system now that will help protect the game and won't be unacceptable to the vast majority of our players. There are hoops to jump through, but we believe they are small and give some benefit as well. Some people will not want Steam, end of story. I respect that decision, and I'm sorry if you then don't get to play FM12. We think that most people, the vast majority, will find Steam no problem at all and will enjoy playing FM12 with it.

I think this poll is going in the right direction then.

Sure, most people might not mind... But it's the customers you've lost that surely matter.

Like I said, this will be a pyrrhic victory in your fight for piracy, and don't be surprised if your bottom line is impacted by it. Piracy rate is just one of those mildly interesting KPIs that organisations love to optimise, but the bottom line is what truly matters.

I am a developer, and I have developed software before. I've seen it pirated before. I've released digital work under copyright and seen it misused without my permission before. You feel indignation, anger and annoyance when you see this - how dare this person take my work and use them for free, perhaps to his or her own benefit! However, I took a step back and thought about it - they used my work because they thought it was fun, useful or exciting for them. It helped them in some way. Then I think that there could be loads more people out there who appreciate my work, and that is the market I need to aim for. People will always pirate my work - but it is those who appreciate it and reuse it with permission who really mean something to me. I treat these people as "trialists" who can be converted into customers. It's where you realise that you feel indignation, anger and annoyance due to a loss of control, not a financial loss. I put my heart and soul into that piece of work, and someone misuses it - that effort feels for nothing. Yet I know that that person is only helping me become more known indirectly - I may benefit from it further down the line.

What I really need to care about is keeping my existing customer-base, and growing it.

You cannot stop piracy by making piracy more tempting. Reducing choice does exactly that - it drives people to pirate, where they can get a piece of software with less of a burden.

Piracy needs to be treated more as an overhead and an opportunity rather than a slammed-shut door.

Photoshop is an example. I'd guess most copies of Photoshop are pirated nowadays, and have been for a while. However, the kid that gets his or her hands grubby with a pirated version of Photoshop and falls in love with it is likely to become a paying licensee when he or she graduates from University with an Art degree into the media industry. All this means is that Photoshop has found a potential market for budding art students, and that if it can make its software so awesome and value-for-money that young students start using it, the company benefits in the long run.

Look at this: http://piracy.ssrc.org/adobe-logic/

Bill Gates has spoke on getting China drunk on Microsoft software (pirated, of course), so that when China's economy grows, Microsoft essentially locks-in and silos the Chinese into Microsoft products, benefiting them in the long run. Windows and Office are pirated heavily, but the last thing Microsoft wants to do is come down hard on it right now.

Spread your seeds, and wait for them to blossom.

I must stress that I believe piracy is wrong, since it is against the law in many countries - but there are ways to tackle piracy that are perhaps not that logical at first. One example is legalising drugs - for some, there might be incredulous gasps, but if you think about it, it's not the most idiotic suggestion in the world (i.e. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/apr/07/drugs-policy-legalisation-report - although I know this is controversial in itself).

[roykela]

How what I said translates into what you've said I have no idea.

I'll let you think about that one for a little while then. It's quite obvious when you get around to it.

If you don't, then it's easy not getting it

[roykela]

I really don't see "I should be able to give my mate my DVD so we can both play and he doesn't have to buy it" as a valid point tbh.

Was more thinking in line with, "my mate want to pay it, but won't buy it anyways so he might come here to play with me."

Practically it might not work at all. Not enough room around the computer, don't want to see what the other one is doing......those sort of things.

But it wasn't a worry, or a real point at all. Was just a little thought.

[Lord Rowell]

OK, apologies if there is some repetition of earlier themes here but I want to ask 3 questions. Answerable by SI or anyone else who can provide clarification.

1. If I don't have an internet connection, how do you propose I play FM12?

2. If I buy FM12 as a Christmas stocking filler for my two or more children, nephews/nieces etc, can they play it within the same household on different computers i.e. their own laptops/PC's etc?

3. Can I give my copy of FM12 to someone else e.g. a friend, relative, charity shop and expect that they will be able to play it?

Thanks in advance.

1. You can't.

2. No, not at the same time.

3. Yes, as long as you don't keep trying to play yourself.

Thanks for the swift reply SCIAG. Now, my responses to the answers.

1. Very disappointed with SI and SEGA with this because it forces people to have an internet connection. I know most people have one, but not everyone can afford to maintain one or has access to internet if they're in a rural area. This prevents them from playing the game even when they've purchased it, or have received it as a gift. This is economic discrimination.

2. This is absurd. Yes, I saw Neil Brock's earlier post that this is the legal position. The legal position is absurd and it is unethical and shameful that SI and SEGA are exploiting this to the maximum. Are we seriously saying that Mum and Dad have to buy two or more copies for their kids? Have the folk at SI and SEGA not twigged that this disproportionately affects those on lower incomes, especially in these times of rising unemployment, real wage deflation and austerity measures?

As with all things, there is a balance between a firm protecting its property rights, and acting in a socially responsible manner. This crosses an ethical line IMO in pursuit of profit. I'm disgusted at this.

3. I'm pleased to hear that is the case as purchasing a game should mean that, as with anything else, you own it. This is called property rights. Though I fear that the next step will be that we can't decide to sell or give away our own property and will become licensers rather than owners. More power to the big firms, less power to the little folk.

I posted on the poll thread that I'd give serious consideration as to whether I'd buy FM12 or not. I've now reached a conclusion, unless SI and SEGA reverse this policy, I won't be buying any more games from them, because this is a matter of principle.

To the people who don't understand the fuss. I understand you like Steam. I did, when I had a choice as to whether to use it or not. But this is the issue, its a choice. Now, SI have taken that choice away from us.

[bcooper]

It would appear so.

Do you play on a laptop? If you do you could activate the game by taking your laptop to somewhere with Wifi as it only needs doing once.

If you cannot get an internet connection to your FM computer at any time then I'm afraid you won't be able to activate FM12

[Ackter]

2. This is absurd. Yes, I saw Neil Brock's earlier post that this is the legal position. The legal position is absurd and it is unethical and shameful that SI and SEGA are exploiting this to the maximum. Are we seriously saying that Mum and Dad have to buy two or more copies for their kids? Have the folk at SI and SEGA not twigged that this disproportionately affects those on lower incomes, especially in these times of rising unemployment, real wage deflation and austerity measures?

As with all things, there is a balance between a firm protecting its property rights, and acting in a socially responsible manner. This crosses an ethical line IMO in pursuit of profit. I'm disgusted at this.

They can all play one copy at the same time in a hotseat game.

If you wanted to buy them Gears of War (randomly picked game) it would be exactly the same.

[Ackter]

3. I'm pleased to hear that is the case as purchasing a game should mean that, as with anything else, you own it. This is called property rights. Though I fear that the next step will be that we can't decide to sell or give away our own property and will become licensers rather than owners. More power to the big firms, less power to the little folk.

I posted on the poll thread that I'd give serious consideration as to whether I'd buy FM12 or not. I've now reached a conclusion, unless SI and SEGA reverse this policy, I won't be buying any more games from them, because this is a matter of principle.

To the people who don't understand the fuss. I understand you like Steam. I did, when I had a choice as to whether to use it or not. But this is the issue, its a choice. Now, SI have taken that choice away from us.

You do not own any software that you buy - you only own the license to use it.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Hi, as I've already said STEAM do not pay SEGA or SI for doing this, it's not done to push people to Steam, it's just that Steam provides the best anti piracy solution at the moment that is relatively unobtrusive to the consumer. The financial gain here, as we've been transparent about is that we think there not being pirated versions out there before the game is available to buy, and for the period we believe we can keep it protected after will increase sales.

And when this period is over will this policy continue?

We think we have a system now that will help protect the game and won't be unacceptable to the vast majority of our players. There are hoops to jump through, but we believe they are small and give some benefit as well. Some people will not want Steam, end of story. I respect that decision, and I'm sorry if you then don't get to play FM12. We think that most people, the vast majority, will find Steam no problem at all and will enjoy playing FM12 with it.

The 'hoops' are one size, and you either jump through or you don't. And the 'benefits' argument, what is that, guilt?

Have SI considered the possible loss of data feedback due to the amount of customers electing to play in offline mode?

How much consideration was given to the timing of the release of this decision? And to whom do I address this copy of the Alastair Campbell award?

[Bohsjohn]

can i install steam in a internet cafe and transfer it to my laptop via a usb stick.i don't have internet on my laptop.

[RorysRocketThrow]

No, it's not. It's game theory and much more complicated than that. You are underestimated the power of word-of-mouth.

This series is heavily-pirated, partly because it is so awesome. However, pirates spread word-of-mouth too. In poorer nations, piracy will be close to 100% but then again, once that nation starts developing, or the game becomes really tempting, some of that percentage will turn into paying customers. You could not do that if piracy didn't exist.

If you like, you will get more direct benefits, but less indirect benefits.

Plus, there is the awkward area where pirates actually buy more. Stamp out piracy and you stamp out these customers.

There are some pirates whom you will never make money off - those aren't of your concern. Your concern is those who might buy but don't for whatever reasonable reason. Those people may pay you in the future. Not those who will never buy.

If your product sells 100 copies and is pirated 1000 times, there is no difference to your direct bottom line if your product sells 100 copies and is pirated 10000 times. The piracy rate is a bit of a misnomer. If your piracy rate is high, all it means is that you have more potential future customers to tap into - that's it.

Do you think this actually matters? Anyone who obtains your product before the actual release date is pirating, whether it's Steam-only or not. The product can be leaked whether it's Steam-only or not. Whether it's Steam-only or not does not matter.

Strawman much? Nobody has said that you've reduced our choices in purchasing the software - you've reduced our choices in activating the software.

This is true for pretty much every single piece of software out there. Let's not pretend FM is special here.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

Look at that!

I think this poll is going in the right direction then.

Sure, most people might not mind... But it's the customers you've lost that surely matter.

Like I said, this will be a pyrrhic victory in your fight for piracy, and don't be surprised if your bottom line is impacted by it. Piracy rate is just one of those mildly interesting KPIs that organisations love to optimise, but the bottom line is what truly matters.

I am a developer, and I have developed software before. I've seen it pirated before. I've released digital work under copyright and seen it misused without my permission before. You feel indignation, anger and annoyance when you see this - how dare this person take my work and use them for free, perhaps to his or her own benefit! However, I took a step back and thought about it - they used my work because they thought it was fun, useful or exciting for them. It helped them in some way. Then I think that there could be loads more people out there who appreciate my work, and that is the market I need to aim for. People will always pirate my work - but it is those who appreciate it and reuse it with permission who really mean something to me. I treat these people as "trialists" who can be converted into customers. It's where you realise that you feel indignation, anger and annoyance due to a loss of control, not a financial loss. I put my heart and soul into that piece of work, and someone misuses it - that effort feels for nothing. Yet I know that that person is only helping me become more known indirectly - I may benefit from it further down the line.

What I really need to care about is keeping my existing customer-base, and growing it.

You cannot stop piracy by making piracy more tempting. Reducing choice does exactly that - it drives people to pirate, where they can get a piece of software with less of a burden.

Piracy needs to be treated more as an overhead and an opportunity rather than a slammed-shut door.

Photoshop is an example. I'd guess most copies of Photoshop are pirated nowadays, and have been for a while. However, the kid that gets his or her hands grubby with a pirated version of Photoshop and falls in love with it is likely to become a paying licensee when he or she graduates from University with an Art degree into the media industry. All this means is that Photoshop has found a potential market for budding art students, and that if it can make its software so awesome and value-for-money that young students start using it, the company benefits in the long run.

Look at this: http://piracy.ssrc.org/adobe-logic/

Bill Gates has spoke on getting China drunk on Microsoft software (pirated, of course), so that when China's economy grows, Microsoft essentially locks-in and silos the Chinese into Microsoft products, benefiting them in the long run. Windows and Office are pirated heavily, but the last thing Microsoft wants to do is come down hard on it right now.

Spread your seeds, and wait for them to blossom.

I must stress that I believe piracy is wrong, since it is against the law in many countries - but there are ways to tackle piracy that are perhaps not that logical at first. One example is legalising drugs - for some, there might be incredulous gasps, but if you think about it, it's not the most idiotic suggestion in the world (i.e. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/apr/07/drugs-policy-legalisation-report - although I know this is controversial in itself).

Absolutely top drawer post there fella. Really, REALLY good. Well thought out, constructive and a hell of a lot of effort gone into that.