Falling out of love with the game

[flogside]

Sad thing is mate i think i agree with you! Im the same! Unless some decent new features come out, and i dont mean 3D as i personally have no interest in FM being made more into Fifa! I also have a family now, work commitments and cannot spend the time on it i used too! Lets hope for improved features on FM12 like scouting, academies and improved transfer market and player interaction etc

[flogside]

Oh and SFraser, i completely agree with your post (#50) spot on mate, until SI get back on track and remember this isnt Fifa then i do not see the game improving much! That isnt what die hard fans who have been playing this game for year want!

[PLeaseDontSackME]

I am also going through a phase of not being able to apply myself to a new save so to speak.

im just not feeling the bug at the moment. its really annoying as i cant stop thinking about the game yet i cant bring myself to play it!

by the way i play black ops every night and havent lost the enthusiasm to play that game. i agree about what has been said about the gimmicky features and mini games.

i want to manage a football team, group of players and thats it. all this extra tripe is just meaningless and boring.

back in the day your imagination was what made the game so addictive. its seems with every version they are pinch by pinch taking away this aspect of the game.

Less glitter, more gold please SI!

[Fabio MVP]

Bit harsh beating 4 on the trot including Villa in the league Cup, to have the same side with good fitness and morale, good team talk, to lose home to Palace?

Anyway,FM12 has to be good for the following reason, even years:

FM08 - Legendary

FM09 - Crap

FM10 - Quality

FM11 - Fail

So FM12's gunna be beastly, and FM13 I wont bother buying.

One of the stupider statements on these boards.

[shirajzl]

One of the stupider statements on these boards.

People definitely tend to overreact, but it's also very annoying when some (and I don't mean you) refuse to acknowledge the game has some very serious issues that need to be dealt with.

[Fabio MVP]

People definitely tend to overreact, but it's also very annoying when some (and I don't mean you) refuse to acknowledge the game has some very serious issues that need to be dealt with.

Of course.

My posts wasn't the most constructive, but coming in here and saying that FM 11 is fail is utter nonsense. Just because bluebirds4life is not good at FM 11 (which is pretty much proven given the thread he created couple of months ago here in GD) doesn't necessarily have to mean that FM 11 is fail.

I would also slate any fanboy coming in here and defending the game when there are some obvious problems.

IMO FM 11.3 is by far the best football management simulation ever and my first one was CM03/04 and I played every other version after that.

Anyway FM 11.3 has some problems, but not some very serious ones as you said.

Sorry for going off topic, but I felt the need to say this.

[R0ca]

To throw in my 2 cent's crouchy. It sounds to me like your sufferring from burnout mate. I Think the suggestion of taking a break could be spot on you've lost your inspiratation to play, you need to rediscover the spark which made you love the game in the first place. It can't be forced it'll just happen when the time is right.

There's a lot of things wrong with FM for sure, but i also believe it's by far the closest adaptation of football on any format. But there are in-perfections there are bugs here and there when they come along you've just got to roll with the punches and take it with a pinch of salt.

Your a fantastic poster crouchy i hope you rediscover your love as these forum's will be a sadder place without you.

[kstoyle]

Maybe it is not the game, maybe it is you!

I am a bit older than you (33) but as I have got older FM has taken more and more of a back seat in my life. I love CM/FM. Always have alwalys will, but it is a different kind of love. More a mutual respect of a long-term parter than the lust it was when I was 18.

I accept the flaws for what they are, and realise it is just a game that should not be taken too seriously.

That probably does not make any sense, but there it is.

[shirajzl]

Maybe it is not the game, maybe it is you!

I am a bit older than you (33) but as I have got older FM has taken more and more of a back seat in my life. I love CM/FM. Always have alwalys will, but it is a different kind of love. More a mutual respect of a long-term parter than the lust it was when I was 18.

I accept the flaws for what they are, and realise it is just a game that should not be taken too seriously.

That probably does not make any sense, but there it is.

Funnily enough, I'd think that when you grow older, you'd appreciate more the basics of the game, more relaxed approach to it. Not just a pile of new features added up every year with questionable fun value.

[Da Beezer]

I'm getting fed up with the franchise as well, sadly.

It's too much of a simulation. The realism has killed it, as it feels more like work than something fun that you look forward to play.

It's just too bloated with meningless functions and clicking now.

[Richey]

I took a break when my son was born in 2009... i was probably suffering from a bit of burnout then. I came back to FM08 about 4 months after he was born and loved it. I moved to Australia and didn't have a computer for a while and that was another break. I have to confess I haven't really played FM11 - i liked 10 too much but having just found out my wife is pregnant with our second, I know that another break is on the cards. Each time I enjoy that time away, and come back with a little bit of energy. Having played this thing for 15 years I gradually realised how important it was to take a break, sometimes by circumstance, and other times simply because too much of anything can be bad. With a game... familiarity can breed a wee bit of contempt at times.

[Sussex Hammer]

Must confess I am thinking similar these days but I am getting older thus maybe losing my appetite for it. I've spent since buying it trying to design a decent tactic and am constantly tinkering. I am a classic tactics manager as I just cannot get on with the TC for various reasons and at one point I thought I had a great tactic designed winning 6-0 away at Sunderland and going on a great run but then it hit the buffers and I have absolutey no idea why. I think there are too many factors that decide results rather than just players and tactics and it just has annoyed me that I seem to be spending all game time trying to tinker with something constantly because it just seems to stop working!!

I have just stopped a game as West Ham after 3 seasons because I ended up buying the likes of Gotze, Jadson, Babacar and Kaka and it just ddn't seem right. West Ham would never buy those players so it just felt bizarrely wrong.

I think maybe a big reason is IRL we have been relegated so starting a new game again just doesn't feel right. I may just use FMRTE to have a bit of fun now until 2012 comes out but it does seem that FM11 has been a bit of a waste of time because it's just not a plug and play game anymore. Too many features that irritate like the mundane, pointless press conferances or the difficulty in selling players or the opposition players taking 5 minutes to take a throw in or goal kick when I am 1-0 down.

The game has become irritating rather than enjoyable IMO.

[Braundjoh]

I still think this is a great game personally, started my fourth new game on this computer earlier in the week, and have already got quite into it. I've done two 10+ season games, as well as a 5 season game. For me, this is the best FM so far, and I haven't been affected by some of the things people are being affected by.

I do agree that the media side of the game needs work, and I am not in a minority when I say I leave most of it to my assistant. I can't be bothered with the hassle of answering repetitive questions, and it was a good decision by SI to have a "Leave to assistant" button. It will no doubt see another slight improvement this year, but it is debatable as to how far they can take that feature.

I like the backroom advice stuff, and while I don't often listen to what they say, I still think it could be a good feature with some improvements.

A lot of people, however, simply don't like the game because they lose. Bluebirds4life, as FabioMVP has already said, is a good example. Even in this thread he has stated that on FM11 he gets frustrated and quits after a loss. That is more of a user problem than a problem with the game, as losses happen and you have to get to the bottom of why you lost, not just be frustrated. Sorry to use you as an example, but it was easier to make the point when provided with the words already. I myself get frustrated at losing whatever I play, but that just makes me get better at it.

As long as FM12 continues to make improvements (which I believe 11 has), then I at least won't feel inclined to buy the next overpriced piece of tosh from Activision and Infinity Ward.

[FrogSpawnChickenFace]

TL;DR : I'm also feeling disillusioned with this once great franchise.

<wall of text>

I've graduated from playing the original Football Manager on the Spectrum (Keith Toms version I think), then through Kick Off/Kick Off 2 (Amiga), Player Manager (Amiga), Sensible Soccer, and Sensible World of Soccer (Amiga), a few random single release management games, then the championship manager series started. I have not played any other series since, except I stupidly bought 'the other sides' iPhone game - which was terrible.

For me, the series peaked with CM3. It was the last of the versions where I could play through a season in a couple of evenings. Since then, every successive version has gradually added more features at the expense of playability, and in many cases what is meant to add to the immersive/fantasy quality of the series actually ruins it through clunky design. I actually liked the text-only commentary engine, as it had alot of tension. It reminded me of listening to Liverpool away games in Europe in the 1970s/early 80s on the radio. The 2D blob display was okay, and gave me a bit of insight into how the game used your tactics and so on. The 3D engine doesn't add much except gloss, but also adds a whole host of silly non-features, like players standing still, or keepers running away from the goal as the opposition kick a long ball into the box, players that never handball etc. (see below for a couple of vids)

The last few versions of FM have all been very disappointing, partly because of the bugs at release, but also, like I said, the addition of more and more poorly implemented features. 2011 is a perfect example.

What's really killed it for me this time is the bugs still there even after the 'final' patch, and the features like the player conversations, press conferences and so on that add nothing to the game but a chore to click through.

I started a new game last week, playing my local team RC Strasbourg. After a few months (game time) I had them top of the French National, and beaten only in the cup. Then I had an offer to take over Swansea, who were bottom of the Championship, with 6 points from 13 games, I took the job as it felt like a challenge. It's at this point lots of the irritations started to kick in. My results since I took over would make me a managerial genius, however, I didn't change anything, except doing all the confidence boosting answers in the press conferences and team talks, I kept the formation and similar players to what they had been fielding before and I signed two defenders on frees as backup. The games so far go like this (I am just about to enter the January window) :- 1-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-1, 1-0, 3-2, 2-0, 1-0, 1-0, 2-1, 3-1, 1-0. I'm now 6th, with 12 straight wins, that's ridiculous, it includes away wins at 3 of the top 5 clubs. My point, really, is that the off-the-field factors that I can fudge are making far too much of a difference to the on-the-field performances, I'm just awaiting all my players to fail a drugs test or something and find out 'We woz robbed Brian'...

I still keep getting messages about my old players from Strasbourg, despite having unsubscribed from everything. The number of stupid player conversations is arm chewingly bad, "I want to leave!", "No you can't", "Oh, that's okay then, see you later." or the oratorial classic, "I think you'd be the perfect mentor for Fred Spanky.", "Ok boss.", "Let me just invite Spanky into the room." *door creaking* "Hi Spanky, I'd like you to learn from Widow Twanky here.", "No I don't wanna.", "Oh go on, you know you want to", "I stand by what I said, here, have my toys, this pram is too small." and so on... How the developers think this stuff bears any semblance to the 'more realistic than a realistic bunch of pixels' tag is beyond me.

Here's a couple of the more comical match-engine bugs -

The development cycle only makes sense from a marketing/financial point of view. A release every year is nonsense, at least for the game engine. What we have is a Winter release, then patches until the start of spring, usually 3 distinct versions. The final patch being the last patch regardless of whether there are still horrendous bugs in the game. Then nothing until Winter, and again another release with a few more of the features added last time polished a little and a few more features added. And then it repeats. I'd much rather they continued patching the main game and the winter release was a data expansion for the new season complete with a patch and maybe a new theme or other goody costing 50% of the release price. Then the following year they could release a new game engine at the full price, and actually properly maintain it with patches all through the cycle. So we get a new game engine every two years, with a comprehensive update in between, and patches that actually fix 99% of the bugs.

Anyway, am waffling a bit here...

</wall of text>

[shirajzl]

My results since I took over would make me a managerial genius, however, I didn't change anything, except doing all the confidence boosting answers in the press conferences and team talks, I kept the formation and similar players to what they had been fielding before and I signed two defenders on frees as backup. The games so far go like this (I am just about to enter the January window) :- 1-0, 2-0, 2-0, 2-1, 1-0, 3-2, 2-0, 1-0, 1-0, 2-1, 3-1, 1-0. I'm now 6th, with 12 straight wins, that's ridiculous, it includes away wins at 3 of the top 5 clubs. My point, really, is that the off-the-field factors that I can fudge are making far too much of a difference to the on-the-field performances, I'm just awaiting all my players to fail a drugs test or something and find out 'We woz robbed Brian'...

Exactly, it's ridiculous. What's more annoying; when the morale is high, players play well and score almost every chance they create. However, when the morale is low, they play equally well, but keep missing those chances.

[moon_goat]

I can't sit through as many seasons any more, it's just unbelievably tedious to have to sit through press conferences EVERY game for fear of your assistant going out and sabotaging your match. If i could just disable those, the game would be ten times more enjoyable.

Also i wish the tactics engine gave you more positional variety, it feels so restricted.

[Suzie MUFC]

I can't sit through as many seasons any more, it's just unbelievably tedious to have to sit through press conferences EVERY game for fear of your assistant going out and sabotaging your match. If i could just disable those, the game would be ten times more enjoyable.

Also i wish the tactics engine gave you more positional variety, it feels so restricted.

+1 to both of these points.

[CaptainPlanet]

I think it's time for the game to be more customisable to appeal to a wider audience of player. Tickboxes for inclusion/removal of features when starting a game, which isn't at all uncommon in a lot of other games, would be the biggest step in the right direction.

Where is the benefit of railroading the customer?

[crouchaldinho]

I can't sit through as many seasons any more, it's just unbelievably tedious to have to sit through press conferences EVERY game for fear of your assistant going out and sabotaging your match. If i could just disable those, the game would be ten times more enjoyable.

Also i wish the tactics engine gave you more positional variety, it feels so restricted.

Amen, especially to the second point.

[Le Tissier's Nose]

im just not feeling the bug at the moment. its really annoying as i cant stop thinking about the game yet i cant bring myself to play it!

This this this this this! (and what Crouchy said.)

I still write my best 11 down whilst I'm supposed to be working. I still ignore my boss when he's talking because I'm reading an interesting thread on here. I still spend a very long time thinking about the tactics for my next game, which I shall play as soon as I get in tonight. Then I get home, load it up - and decide to do something else instead. I cannot pin-point why. The bug just isn't there anymore.

Team-talks and press conferences are more like exams. They have right and wrong answers and you know what will happen depending on what you say. I never call a press conference to introduce new signings anymore, because 100% of the time that player finds something to be unhappy about, whatever I say. You can't tell me I'm saying the wrong things - it's whatever I say. And 100% of the time.

Also, I don't know if it's just me, my save, my imagination or - god forbid - my tactics, but I've noticed more and more with FM11 that I am seeing through the game and into the programming. For example, if I play a left back who's preferred foot is Left, at right back - I know I won't keep a clean sheet. I also know that watching the game in 3D will show this left-back making a mistake leading to the goal. I understand this is to be expected, but what I mean is... I know it's going to happen. It's programmed in to the game, and it's not highly likely anymore... it's definite.

In what's coming up the final nail in the FM coffin - I've started rushing games. I'm usually a very methodical manager - taking my time, pausing the game to make tactical changes, pausing every time I want to read my Assistants Feedback. Now I don't bother - I rush it. Whatever save game, whether I'm winning or losing, I am rushing through games and even saying out loud to my girlfriend, I'm not feeling this anymore. (much to her delight)

And all of that says to me that my interest is waning, and that like Crouchy, I'm falling out of love with the game. (or maybe just more IN love with the missus)

[moneyhero]

i feel what your saying, i loved loved loved the old cm especially 00/01 and 01/02, high addictive i felt it somewhat fell away and became slow and sloggish, untill the breakaway and fm 2005 for me was the best of the lot

i loved it and was addicted completed around 30 seasons of saves wich considering i avg bout 8 per game due to lack of time, is quite something.

i really dident play fm 10 much as i just dident seem to have the time nor the want, however i had a serious operation in august and when 2011 was released i played the arse of it, (for me anyway) ive done around 14 seasons with various clubs on different saves and i thought my love for the game was back however since recovering and going back to work 7 weeks ago ive loaded it up once and quit as soon as i did, just doesent warrent the time for me anymore, to fiddly too indepth, you need to really take your time looking over all of the many many details from tactics to conversations etc to ensure u do well.

the tactic creator helps, however i seem to make worse tactics with this despite them seeming good in theory, and revert back to the old arrows etc

i will off course be buying fm12 and playing it probably book the following monday off work too for a long weekend of play time.

however unles sthis captures my imagination i too liek you will probably just casually play a fm 2005 save should i feel the need to play

[milnerpoint]

I find myself going through spells, sometimes i think im getting bored and i give it a break but i usually pick it up quite easily again. I find it boring trying the same teams and leagues all the time so i have finally started expanding a bit, playing random leagues then going back to my dons game for a few weeks.

I still dont understand when people say the game takes too long, it can take very little time if you want, myself and a friend went through 2 and a half seasons last week in our two player German game, neither of us did any press conferences, minimal private chats, minimal tactical adjustments, infact both of us have everything on either standard or balanced, have set up a few scouts and coaches but thats it really, we have been flying through the game, with good success. Warranted i know very little about the other teams and whats going on in the FM world, but its still been a lot of fun. Blasting through this game is still possible, you dont have to do all the chats and stuff.

[x42bn6]

I still dont understand when people say the game takes too long, it can take very little time if you want, myself and a friend went through 2 and a half seasons last week in our two player German game, neither of us did any press conferences, minimal private chats, minimal tactical adjustments, infact both of us have everything on either standard or balanced, have set up a few scouts and coaches but thats it really, we have been flying through the game, with good success. Warranted i know very little about the other teams and whats going on in the FM world, but its still been a lot of fun. Blasting through this game is still possible, you dont have to do all the chats and stuff.

My laptop could do a whole season in one day for FM07, and my laptop is rubbish. That's speed - not FM11 with all its agents-talk, player-interaction nonsense and longer loading times. And CM01-02 was even quicker - miles quicker.

[shirajzl]

My laptop could do a whole season in one day for FM07, and my laptop is rubbish. That's speed - not FM11 with all its agents-talk, player-interaction nonsense and longer loading times. And CM01-02 was even quicker - miles quicker.

You can't really compare the speed of CM01/02 with FM 11. I still play that CM from time to time and those two games are completely different level of...well, everything. As much as I dislike some aspects of FM, it's unfair to compare its speed to a 10 year old game.

While we're at it, CM 01/02 had the perfect ratio of fun and realism. It was focused on tactics and transfers, and not getting the right answers in the press conference or choosing the right option in team talks.

[Skooma]

I don't really have time to sit down and crank out matches anymore. Even when I did though I got bored with it.

Tactics are tricky to get right. You can't really tell what is working and what isn't, you just know if you are winning or not. There's no clear cause and effect to figure anything out.

[shirajzl]

I don't really have time to sit down and crank out matches anymore. Even when I did though I got bored with it.

Tactics are tricky to get right. You can't really tell what is working and what isn't, you just know if you are winning or not. There's no clear cause and effect to figure anything out.

Worse still, a world class striker turns into an amateur because you said the wrong thing to him before the match. That makes your tactics decisions irrelevant.

[taylorsmen]

I'm not falling out of love with the game, but i am finding it hard to play any save other then my network game, i've tried countless saves outside the onliner, only to get fed up after a season or two down the line. I'll always love this game, i just think we all get moments when we lose interest, maybe it's just that we all play the game far too much, who knows.

[Guest]

TL;DR : I'm also feeling disillusioned with this once great franchise.

<wall of text>

Anyway, am waffling a bit here...

</wall of text>

I read that wall of text, and its exactly the same for me. I could have wrote that word for word. Sums it up totally for me.

[Le Tissier's Nose]

I read that wall of text, and its exactly the same for me. I could have wrote that word for word. Sums it up totally for me.

older-and-wider likes this

[grade]

I find myself going through spells, sometimes i think im getting bored and i give it a break but i usually pick it up quite easily again. I find it boring trying the same teams and leagues all the time so i have finally started expanding a bit, playing random leagues then going back to my dons game for a few weeks.

I still dont understand when people say the game takes too long, it can take very little time if you want, myself and a friend went through 2 and a half seasons last week in our two player German game, neither of us did any press conferences, minimal private chats, minimal tactical adjustments, infact both of us have everything on either standard or balanced, have set up a few scouts and coaches but thats it really, we have been flying through the game, with good success. Warranted i know very little about the other teams and whats going on in the FM world, but its still been a lot of fun. Blasting through this game is still possible, you dont have to do all the chats and stuff.

I'm sorry the game take longer then any FM, because there is lot of to do in the game, that personally feel that is uninteresting to do, but important if you want to have some success in the game. Leaving stuff to the AI and your coaches makes it time consuming, because you are force to find and hire some high stats coaches and Ass. Manager (which is now much harder to find), if you want players motivated. I try in this save to go with the staff I had and after the first six matches i found it is impossible, since my team struggled to win matches when I won them.

The issue I'm having is that with some features some of them like Press Conferences and Team Talks there is only a right and wrong way to work them. There is another features were simply adds another level of difficulty, but since users are think human beings can use the workaround like new contract system, where you can very easily hire the player you want, just offer more money to the agent, but I bet was intended to add another layer of difficult for the users.

These features for me personally adds nothing to the fun of the game, specially with this right and wrong way approach, because there is no right and wrong approach in football.

[crouchaldinho]

Well, I had a couple of months break from the game. Played a lot of Minecraft instead.

Then, the other day, I fired up FM10 and played out season 21 & 22 on my favourite St. Albans City save. At first, I thoroughly enjoyed getting back to some FM but, after a while, the game started annoying me again. There are some really annoying issues that I am experiencing on FM10. The worst one I kept coming across was this bug where a player 'wants a new challenge' over and over, without any potential for me to resolve the situation. What happens is this:

'I want a new challenge,' says the player.

'No you don't,' says Crouchaldinho.

'Yes, I do!'

'Well, have a new lucrative contract instead! How about that?' pleads Crouchaldinho.

'Okay, I am now happy. That's just great!' replies the player.

Two FM days pass.

'I'm unhappy again! I need a new challenge!'

And on and on it goes. Grrrrr! Really frustrating.

That's what's going on with half of my squad for the majority of the season. It's like a constant battle, to be honest, and so very frustrating. Can anyone tell me if this was sorted for FM11?

What makes it worse is that I don't even have the opportunity to give the player a talking to and let him know that I have plenty of new challenges in mind for him!

On top of this kind of annoyance, there are things like press conferences that just really annoy me. Plus how reliant we seem to be on bloody team talks half of the time. And how slow the game seems to process. Then I find that I'm playing not because I'm enjoying myself but just to get to the end of the season! I just keep going but I'm not having fun any more. Grrrr!

I've kind of reached the conclusion that I should revert to an old version for a while and play one of the games that processes a bit quicker on my computer. One that doesn't have press conferences and one where team talks don't seem quite so massively significant. One where players aren't complaining every five minutes and one where I feel that I am having fun. One with the old 2D match engine and tactical arrows maybe!

Thing is, I'm dying to play some football management games but just feeling a bit fed up with the direction of the FM series right now.

I might end up giving either FM07 or FM08 a shot for a while. Just for a bit of nostalgic fun.

Rant over..... for now.....

[AcidBurn]

Why not just sell the idiot instead? If a player wants to leave then I get rid of them the ungrateful so and so's.

I don't think it is as bad on FM11, if the players wants to move to a bigger club it is incredibly easy to get them to stay. The new challenge thing is pretty rare and in my Crewe save in 2022 I have only had it happen 4 or 5 times twice I persuaded them to stay and the other two I sold as they were idiots.

[crouchaldinho]

Well, it's happening with quite a few of my players AB, unfortunately, and some of them are favourites that I really want to convince to stay.

It just feels like if I sold every player who said it, I'd lose most of my squad and I'd be constantly rebuilding! In addition, another practical reason is that I have a tight chairman at the moment, so I'm really hesitant about letting people go, in case I can't actually replace them with similar quality players.

The 'new challenge' issue isn't so much a problem with it happening. I can definitely accept that some players might want to move on for a new challenge, although it's something I would like to be quite rare. The problem with what's happening in my current FM10 save is the frequency with which it tends to happen. I have a whole bunch of players complaining on an almost constant basis.

If you get them to accept a new contract and they say that they are happy, that should be it, surely, at least for some considerable time! But I end up with them complaining five minutes later once again! You've just signed a new contract, for goodness sake, what's your problem!

I get even more annoyed when someone says that they want to move to a bigger club and it turns out to be a club who haven't won anything for a decade and are used to mid-table mediocrity. We're the most successful English club right now! There is nobody bigger!

Maybe this is specifically a problem with small club to big club games though. I don't know.

Sounds as if maybe it has been improved on FM11 though, from what you say AB.

[AcidBurn]

I didn't really play any long term games on FM10 where I stayed at one club for long so the new challenge problem didn't happen much only with Ramsey and Wilshere in my Sunderland side. I would say that the bigger club thing is fixed every time I talk to the player I can convince them to stay on. I had trouble with Ramsey again on FM11 wanting to leave to I sold him and a couple of others for big money without trying to convince them to stay.

[grade]

Well, I had a couple of months break from the game. Played a lot of Minecraft instead.

Then, the other day, I fired up FM10 and played out season 21 & 22 on my favourite St. Albans City save. At first, I thoroughly enjoyed getting back to some FM but, after a while, the game started annoying me again. There are some really annoying issues that I am experiencing on FM10. The worst one I kept coming across was this bug where a player 'wants a new challenge' over and over, without any potential for me to resolve the situation. What happens is this:

'I want a new challenge,' says the player.

'No you don't,' says Crouchaldinho.

'Yes, I do!'

'Well, have a new lucrative contract instead! How about that?' pleads Crouchaldinho.

'Okay, I am now happy. That's just great!' replies the player.

Two FM days pass.

'I'm unhappy again! I need a new challenge!'

And on and on it goes. Grrrrr! Really frustrating.

That's what's going on with half of my squad for the majority of the season. It's like a constant battle, to be honest, and so very frustrating. Can anyone tell me if this was sorted for FM11?

What makes it worse is that I don't even have the opportunity to give the player a talking to and let him know that I have plenty of new challenges in mind for him!

On top of this kind of annoyance, there are things like press conferences that just really annoy me. Plus how reliant we seem to be on bloody team talks half of the time. And how slow the game seems to process. Then I find that I'm playing not because I'm enjoying myself but just to get to the end of the season! I just keep going but I'm not having fun any more. Grrrr!

I've kind of reached the conclusion that I should revert to an old version for a while and play one of the games that processes a bit quicker on my computer. One that doesn't have press conferences and one where team talks don't seem quite so massively significant. One where players aren't complaining every five minutes and one where I feel that I am having fun. One with the old 2D match engine and tactical arrows maybe!

Thing is, I'm dying to play some football management games but just feeling a bit fed up with the direction of the FM series right now.

I might end up giving either FM07 or FM08 a shot for a while. Just for a bit of nostalgic fun.

Rant over..... for now.....

My suggestion would be FM07, but since I know you liked FM08, then go for it.

For me these games are old, old fashioned and with old code , but I still I much more fun with them, then newer versions, with new code and new features that give a more "realistic" air to game. I play a game for fun, if that means playing an old and bit of fantasy in the game.

Let's be honest folks every FM and old CMs have a fantasy component in the game, because if this was basically 100% sim of reality, then things like St. Albany (one example of many) winning Premiership or Champions League or hiring for St. Albany Messi or C. Ronaldo would be impossible, so it needs to have the component of fantasy, so these kind of things can be possible. However personally I think that if SI use their limited time to really improve the management AI it can provide challenge to all of us.

[Marc Vaughan]

I think one of the things with peoples love/hate for the game is down to their own personal 'life' situation at any point in time - FM PC/Mac is rather a 'time hog' and if you are limited on time and try to rush playing it then (personally speaking) its harder to do well ... and thus less enjoyable.

Its partially for this reason that we've been developing the Football Manager Handheld series of games, the complexity of these is lighter than FM PC and they're aimed at recreating the speed and style of gameplay found in our earlier titles and thus are arguably more suited for people who don't have time to immerse themselves in the depth of the PC game ..... if you haven't tried them then consider giving them a whirl?

Disclaimer - FMH is very much 'my baby' so I tend to pimp it out at the slightest opportunity

[grade]

I have tried and since I only have an Ipod Touch, which I find the screen too small to play a game like FM, so for me doesn't work. And since the Ipad is no longer an option (it never was option to begin with) when I got for my birthday a Kindle, so FMH isn't for me.

Marc, the thing is, is not doing well the problem, it is lack of addictness and the fun of playing the game is the issue. I have in the past 4 years explaining my issues with the game and like Crouchaldinho so well puts on his first post, it has been well debated, talked and said. Now the ball is in your court, what you do with it, is up to you. We have done our jobs to try express our feelings, likes, dislikes and concerns about the latest games on your official forums.

[x42bn6]

Its partially for this reason that we've been developing the Football Manager Handheld series of games, the complexity of these is lighter than FM PC and they're aimed at recreating the speed and style of gameplay found in our earlier titles and thus are arguably more suited for people who don't have time to immerse themselves in the depth of the PC game ..... if you haven't tried them then consider giving them a whirl?

Disclaimer - FMH is very much 'my baby' so I tend to pimp it out at the slightest opportunity

I don't think it's right that you should go to ask people to "buy our different game and give us $$$$$$$$", even with that disclaimer.

Why aren't you recreating the speed and style of gameplay of earlier titles for your PC audience?

[Suzie MUFC]

I think one of the things with peoples love/hate for the game is down to their own personal 'life' situation at any point in time - FM PC/Mac is rather a 'time hog' and if you are limited on time and try to rush playing it then (personally speaking) its harder to do well ... and thus less enjoyable.

Its partially for this reason that we've been developing the Football Manager Handheld series of games, the complexity of these is lighter than FM PC and they're aimed at recreating the speed and style of gameplay found in our earlier titles and thus are arguably more suited for people who don't have time to immerse themselves in the depth of the PC game ..... if you haven't tried them then consider giving them a whirl?

Disclaimer - FMH is very much 'my baby' so I tend to pimp it out at the slightest opportunity

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of spare time. It's simply because since FM09, half-baked "features" have been thrown in, causing micromanagement and a slow-down in general gameplay. It isn't that we haven't got the time, it's just that we're forced to do these things out of fear of the consequences to the morale/results of the team (i.e. press conferences, agents, contracts, player interaction), when all we want to do is get to the next match. And it gets repetitive, boring, frustrating, and we end up switching off. There is nothing addictive about long, drawn out contract negotiations (which incidentally since 11.3.0 aren't nearly as negotiable as they should be, it's either accept their demands or walk away and make them angry), or being asked the same questions in a press conference every 3 days. I just end up thinking "I can't be bothered anymore". I shouldn't be feeling that way about a game.

Basically the game has been made so much into simulating a job, it feels like a job, and sometimes without reward.

[Kenco]

Crouchy - I think player interactions are even worse in FM11. Example:

Player: I feel I have achieved all I can at the club and want a new challenge

Me: I think the club can continue to grow and want you to be a part of that

Player: You are being unreasonable, and shouldn't keep a player who doesn't want to play for the club

Me: Okay, I've had time to think about it, and will let you leave if you want

Player: That's great, thanks. I'm really pleased with the way this chat has gone

Conversation ends.

I check his personal screen, he no longer wants to leave and is happy at the club, after I told him he can go. This makes no sense!

This has happened with more than one player.

[FMtillidie]

Challenges are always the best

[AcidBurn]

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of spare time. It's simply because since FM09, half-baked "features" have been thrown in, causing micromanagement and a slow-down in general gameplay. It isn't that we haven't got the time, it's just that we're forced to do these things out of fear of the consequences to the morale/results of the team (i.e. press conferences, agents, contracts, player interaction), when all we want to do is get to the next match. And it gets repetitive, boring, frustrating, and we end up switching off. There is nothing addictive about long, drawn out contract negotiations (which incidentally since 11.3.0 aren't nearly as negotiable as they should be, it's either accept their demands or walk away and make them angry), or being asked the same questions in a press conference every 3 days. I just end up thinking "I can't be bothered anymore". I shouldn't be feeling that way about a game.

Basically the game has been made so much into simulating a job, it feels like a job, and sometimes without reward.

Do you do the press conferences, I have never done one in my most successful career.

[ewok01]

Wow, a fine post, like you I have been around for ages and bought and played all (or most over the years) had a name change due to it being not so smart (okay I will say it "numpty01" and have had the odd disagreement etc etc. My reason for replying mate is we have all fallen in and ot of love with the forums, the games etc, however that is what makes it all so special. I think (and it is only my view) as the game split firstly from the CM01/02 series (which most will agree was the best game of that year) to the one we know now. Include the fact we are alot older, that nostalgic feeling is fading. Don't get me wrong I think FM2011 is brilliant in regards to it's depth, but as you correctly put it, there's way to much to do in this game and it all gets too much. For me it is probably a combination of turning 47 this year, poor eye sight (bifocals these days) insominia and life in general I find it hard to enjoy this game to it's full potential. For example I have tried playing this game as it was probably meant to be played, as in really taking my time to know my players/staff/fans media etc, the hardest thing for me was realising FM2011 really is a "simulation" not a game (for example like CM series of 99/00, 00/01, 01/02). In playing a match and implementing "all aspects" of this game, such as managers advice, opposition instructions, pausing to make these instructions become reality on the pitch and then seeing how the game played as to only say choosing a tactic and players and playing said match. Cannot compare as most times you would lose trying to play this simulation as a game.

In ranting and supporting your post, I can understand how you feel at this time, been there a few times myself, topics that would get my blood boiling is replies like "it's your tactics" "won everything and bought all the best players in 1st season and didn't cheat" etc etc (you know what I mean). However all that aside, would change a thing and every year I go out and buy the next game, kept them all never play them. As a person that has been around since 2001 and seen it all with regards topics, games etc, don't turn your back from this game or the forum community, you love it more than you probably realise. If you are finding FM2011 a litte daunting these days (as I do) may I sugest re-installing and playing one of the old classic games and just give FM2011 a rest for while, that's what i do.

Guess what I am saying as you said to share your thoughts, 'don't stop playing' and don't leave the forum as even though you feel like your over it all, FM2012 will come out and with the release of the newer FM game people seem to lift and get back into it (at least that is what I have noticed over the years) hope my reply was not to long winded.

Cheers

[Suzie MUFC]

Do you do the press conferences, I have never done one in my most successful career.

Yeah, because the one time I didn't do them, the players became upset and we went on a losing streak. And that was at Manchester United with Phelan as assistant manager (someone who IRL has to do the post-match stuff with the BBC). So I feel like I just have to.

[themadsheep2001]

I don't think it's right that you should go to ask people to "buy our different game and give us $$$$$$$$", even with that disclaimer.

Why aren't you recreating the speed and style of gameplay of earlier titles for your PC audience?

He's offering a different option which is fair enough.

Agree with Suzie on this, while i love micromanagment, in FM11 its become a chore, rather than immersive a la FM10. I want t be able to have all the optins available to me at any time when i talkabout an opposition manager, not just the ones the game feels are appropriate. I dont need want be able to put goals up on youtube, I'd rather have a more flexible TC. I want the AI to be much more robust tactically and in terms of squad management. I want an assistant manager who isnt a complete idiot. Player interaction is a minefield, but without enough information as to why.

make the game more obvious to its users. OP hit the nail on the head

[ewok01]

Then you will be happy to know Marc, I bought it just the other day for my ipod touch and it is fun guys, 10 out of 10. I thought you might like some postitive feedback. Only set back is the ipod tuch when playing games the battery zaps way to quick (like right in the middle of doing something LOL) all kidding aside best $15.00 I ever spent at the Apple itunes store.

I think one of the things with peoples love/hate for the game is down to their own personal 'life' situation at any point in time - FM PC/Mac is rather a 'time hog' and if you are limited on time and try to rush playing it then (personally speaking) its harder to do well ... and thus less enjoyable.

Its partially for this reason that we've been developing the Football Manager Handheld series of games, the complexity of these is lighter than FM PC and they're aimed at recreating the speed and style of gameplay found in our earlier titles and thus are arguably more suited for people who don't have time to immerse themselves in the depth of the PC game ..... if you haven't tried them then consider giving them a whirl?

Disclaimer - FMH is very much 'my baby' so I tend to pimp it out at the slightest opportunity

[themadsheep2001]

Crouchy - I think player interactions are even worse in FM11. Example:

Player: I feel I have achieved all I can at the club and want a new challenge

Me: I think the club can continue to grow and want you to be a part of that

Player: You are being unreasonable, and shouldn't keep a player who doesn't want to play for the club

Me: Okay, I've had time to think about it, and will let you leave if you want

Player: That's great, thanks. I'm really pleased with the way this chat has gone

Conversation ends.

I check his personal screen, he no longer wants to leave and is happy at the club, after I told him he can go. This makes no sense!

This has happened with more than one player.

Its just too wacky, player interaction was a huge part of my approach in FM10, and a big reason i found it so immersive, taken a huge step back this time round

[AcidBurn]

Yeah, because the one time I didn't do them, the players became upset and we went on a losing streak. And that was at Manchester United with Phelan as assistant manager (someone who IRL has to do the post-match stuff with the BBC). So I feel like I just have to.

I trust my assman although he does say some stupid things at times he has never upset too many players. Not saying that press conferences are good because I hate them that's why I leave well alone, the repetitiveness of them is appalling.

[themadsheep2001]

I trust my assman although he does say some stupid things at times he has never upset too many players. Not saying that press conferences are good because I hate them that's why I leave well alone, the repetitiveness of them is appalling.

I do them because i get positives results each time, but its just a chore. In fairness though RL press conferences are very dull, unless the manager decides to have a real rant!

[Suzie MUFC]

How many team's performances have been affected by their manager's words in a press conference the night before? Do the players even watch them or care? Because I'm pretty sure they would know it's just cover to give to the press, and it's all ultimately meaningless.

Same for team-talks. In all but the most extreme cases, I reckon most players pretty much forget what their manager has said 10 minutes down the line. And yet in FM, for me anyway, teamtalks seem to have more effect than tactics.