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Arsenal is way too powerful

Shadowleech

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Campyyyyyyyy

Campyyyyyyyy

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like i said, Adebayor is easily the best/most well rounden striker in the world, and it's evident every time i play them. Adebayor is really good on the head, being 190cm tall and having 17 in jumping, 19 heading, and strong like a bull. He also has really good technique/dribbling/ball control and to top it all off he's as fast as Torres.

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phnompenhandy

phnompenhandy

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I just want to add some grist to the mill: one argument put forward is that the Arsenal squad's CAs are not abnormally high, so their unfeasible success must be down to the team's tactics somehow abnormally optimising the AI ME. And yet, I used to editor to put Adebayor in my team. I've just completed the first season; whilst his average rating wasn't even in the Premier League's top 30, he was the leagues top scorer (21), and 2nd highest on assists (11), getting the Player of the Year award. So, even separated from his Arsenal squad, he still tops the bill.

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charlo116

charlo116

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It's ridiculous! How does a striker that fails to score often from right in front IRL earn ratings of 16 for finishing and composure?

And what about Bendtner? From what i've seen of him he doesn't look like he'll ever have the ability to match up to Walcott or Vela, yet he's a wonderkid on fm 09. Aguero is a wonderkid! How can Bendtner be classed even near him!

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lukekarts

lukekarts

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I totally agree with this thread, if I'm not managing in England they win everything every year.

Bendtner being a wonderkid is a joke, Adebayor and Van Persie's PA's are way too high, their back 4 are the best tackling back 4 in the game (just look at their stats).

Clichy is technically better than Ashley Cole and Evra (really?) and Toure / Gallas heading stats are around 17 (again, really???!).

Oh and Wenger buys a defensive midfielder every game - and usually Toulalan.

The game is broken, SI.

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MartinFM

MartinFM

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hm, I play as Arsenal, but im surprised about comments that Liverpool are underrated in the game.

In my game Liverpool usually win the Premiership(way overrated). Its usually either me with my Arsenal team or Liverpool. Also Everton i think is way overrated. They usually come 3rd.

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MartinFM

MartinFM

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I totally agree with this thread, if I'm not managing in England they win everything every year.

Bendtner being a wonderkid is a joke, Adebayor and Van Persie's PA's are way too high, their back 4 are the best tackling back 4 in the game (just look at their stats).

Clichy is technically better than Ashley Cole and Evra (really?) and Toure / Gallas heading stats are around 17 (again, really???!).

Oh and Wenger buys a defensive midfielder every game - and usually Toulalan.

The game is broken, SI.

I definitely agree with you on the Gallas and Toure part, but questioning Clichy's technical abilities(especially in comparison to A Cole)? no way.

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santy001

santy001

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There is little anyone can do to touch Arsenal in the long term unless you are in the premiership yourself. They generate approximately 60-70m a season in season ticket sales alone. The closest anyone comes to that is usually Man Utd on about 30 - 40m with a higher wage bill, and large debts to service. This year on my game Arsenal made 72m from 44,000 season ticket sales, Man Utd's 57,000 season ticket sales earned them 46m. Arsenal will still sell out consistently meaning they will have enormous amounts of cash before any prize money comes into consideration.

Its through this the AI buys other teams targets and their best players and just outright dominates.

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charlo116

charlo116

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hm, I play as Arsenal, but im surprised about comments that Liverpool are underrated in the game.

In my game Liverpool usually win the Premiership(way overrated). Its usually either me with my Arsenal team or Liverpool.

Ummm are you kidding? Have you looked at who is winning the premiership IRL? On fm 09 Skrtel isn't good enough to make Liverpools first team so he is underated and with Keane's level of ability he is not worth using.

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VexingVixen

VexingVixen

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Adebayor and Van Persie got something like 55 goals between them in my most recent game and finished 10 points ahead of Manchester United in second. It's really unrealistic, they lost 1 game in the entire EPL season and had a ridiculous goal difference. Think I may have to take some action and nerf some of their players. :/

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x42bn6

x42bn6

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Arsenal too powerful? They've done bugger all in my game.

Quick, someone create a thread moaning that Real Madrid have too strong a team, or Lyon dominate in France.

Weirdos (to be read in a Life of Brian stylee).

The difference is, of course, that Arsenal haven't had a recent domination streak unlike Lyon and Real Madrid.

Looking at this thread, it seems you're "lucky" as it seems to be a bit of a norm nowadays.

And regarding Adebayor, he really is that physically powerful, and unfortunately the game struggles with strong, fast strikers (Benzema, for example, is an absolute deity).

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Avelives

Avelives

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Also the issue seems to be that IF they get their noses out in front early on in your game theres very little stopping them, sometimes for whatever reason that doesnt happen, but when it does they dominate so heavily its almost impossible to catch them.

In my current save im 3rd chelsea 2nd Man U and Liver 4th and 5th we are all on around the same points (5 to 6 point difference) around the same goals for and against (give or take 5 goals)

Arsenal have 13 more points than Chelsea (in second) 25 More goals (1/3rd more than anyone else) and 5 less goals against (1/4 less scored against)

Some of their results are freakish and totally unrealistic, 6-0 against Chelsea springs to mind.

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phnompenhandy

phnompenhandy

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And regarding Adebayor, he really is that physically powerful, and unfortunately the game struggles with strong, fast strikers (Benzema, for example, is an absolute deity).

This is very true. Nearly always, forwards come in one or two types - nippy bu99ers or strong tall guys. A striker who is a combination of both is like the 2-footed player - abnormally good in FM. Another example is Ibrahimovic. The difference is, IMHO, IRL Ibrahimovic really is exceptionally good, whereas Adebayor isn't.

The broader point however, is that all Arsenal's strikers over-perform, the stand-out one being Bendtner, who is vastly superior in the game to RL.

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Shadowleech

Shadowleech

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Ok I really don't know about are SI FM developers Arsenal fans or not, even if you are that's fine, everyone have their right to choose their favorite team. But you are making a game for so many players, most of us are soccer fans and I'm sure a large percent of us support different teams. If you guys just make the game by your own favor, create serious unreality. That's not respectful to other team's fans who love your game. In so many people's game Arsenal won EPL so many times in a rolL and had very big lead, winning ECC so many times. They never did so in real life, not even close. No team ever did that or is possible to do that.

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Avelives

Avelives

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This is very true. Nearly always, forwards come in one or two types - nippy bu99ers or strong tall guys. A striker who is a combination of both is like the 2-footed player - abnormally good in FM. Another example is Ibrahimovic. The difference is, IMHO, IRL Ibrahimovic really is exceptionally good, whereas Adebayor isn't.

The broader point however, is that all Arsenal's strikers over-perform, the stand-out one being Bendtner, who is vastly superior in the game to RL.

Couldnt agree more about Bendtner. He is demonically good in FM but probably their most average young player in real life, also Walcott and Song are WAY to good in FM (performance level wise) as is Gallas to a lesser degree.

I think part of the problem though is their unshakable mentality in the game, which i think is why if they get a good run of form they become unstoppable, which is odd cause it couldnt be more different in real life, where their mentality is what always lets them down.

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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Ahem, maybe I can direct your attentions to a new thread wherein it is noted that SI are about to release a special Arsenal edition of FM09. Not that there's any relation to this issue of course, but you may like to take alook and reach your own conclusions.

The suggestion that Arsenal have been upgraded for the game because of this deal is total nonsense.

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TUF

TUF

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I have completed five seasons so far in the League 2 and below. Arsenal are also amazing in my save - admittedly I have low detail for premiership & european games, would this drastically affect the outcome?

1st season

Arsenal - 1st - 92pts

Chelsea - 2nd - 77pts

Champs League Final - Arsenal beat Sporting

2nd season

Arsenal - 1st - 90pts

Man United - 2nd - 83pts

Champs League Final - Real Madrid beat Arsenal

3rd season

Arsenal - 1st - 89pts

Chelsea - 2nd - 87pts

Champs League Final - Arsenal beat Milan

4th season

Arsenal - 1st - 82pts

Man United - 2nd - 75pts

Champs League Final - Arsenal beat Milan

5th season

Arsenal - 1st - 82pts

Chelsea - 2nd - 77pts

Champs League Final - Milan beat Arsenal

Edit: Just seen above post, I do not believe this has been done on purpose, I just think Arsenal may have been (slightly) overestimated. ;)

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Serdar

Serdar

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IRL I think no one could predict them to be this bad at the beginning of season so I can not blame SI scouts. There may be some attribute drop for some Arsenal players in the next patch to reflect their their current form. On the other hand I will not be suprised if they improve their game significantly after christmas break because they absolutely have potential to do that, just missing the confidence and couple new faces in the roster.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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IRL I think no one could predict them to be this bad at the beginning of season

I could and did.

2 seasons ago a VERY average Spurs side almost, (and should have), finished 4th in the league ahead of Arsenal.

I can't remember the last time that they were serious contenders for thge league, (although that may be my anti-Arsenal tendancies surfacing). Certainly they have rocked Europe on occasion, but when it comes to the nitty gritty of the league they haven't been at the races fo years.

It was always going to be a 3 horse race this season and my the only read question was whether anyone else would be good enough to finish in 4th above them.

Spurs weren't good enough a couple of years ago.

Everton weren't good enough last season.

Will Villa be good enough this year? Yes. I think so.

As for their kids being the future and gonna win everything in the next few years.... haven't they been saying that for a few years now?

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santy001

santy001

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This is ultimately the result of SI's researching methods, they allow fans of clubs to do it, and its quite clear that the Arsenal fan responsible for it all is clearly on some sort of drugs or blind, or just merely spent too much time listening to Wengers "we're the best team in the world but all the other teams dare turn up and actually play" post match interviews.

Arsenal have slipped into the lull liverpool had found them in during recent years, part of the big 4 but not genuine title contenders, I'd say that since the last time they won the title when they lost Viera etc a lot of people realised it then. However, Fabregas then became twice the player Viera was according to FM, he not only had all the power and defensive nature of the considerably larger Viera (seriously even now I think Viera would flatten Fabregas) and then you look at Theo Walcott, on my game a season or so in he has the same strength as Abdoulaye Faye - the same guy who when I watched Stoke-Arsenal was easily able to outmuscle anyone in that Arsenal team.

It's obvious there is complaints about Arsenal from everyone bar Arsenal fans, it would be a nice bit of customer service for SI to take note and perhaps get in a different researcher for Arsenal for next season or even January's transfer window and see if its a bit more objective.

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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This is ultimately the result of SI's researching methods, they allow fans of clubs to do it, and its quite clear that the Arsenal fan responsible for it all is clearly on some sort of drugs or blind, or just merely spent too much time listening to Wengers "we're the best team in the world but all the other teams dare turn up and actually play" post match interviews.

Arsenal have slipped into the lull liverpool had found them in during recent years, part of the big 4 but not genuine title contenders, I'd say that since the last time they won the title when they lost Viera etc a lot of people realised it then. However, Fabregas then became twice the player Viera was according to FM, he not only had all the power and defensive nature of the considerably larger Viera (seriously even now I think Viera would flatten Fabregas) and then you look at Theo Walcott, on my game a season or so in he has the same strength as Abdoulaye Faye - the same guy who when I watched Stoke-Arsenal was easily able to outmuscle anyone in that Arsenal team.

It's obvious there is complaints about Arsenal from everyone bar Arsenal fans, it would be a nice bit of customer service for SI to take note and perhaps get in a different researcher for Arsenal for next season or even January's transfer window and see if its a bit more objective.

As has been said in this thread before, of the top 4, Arsenal have the lowest average CA, so the thread has been in debate on whether or not the problem is occurring due to the research or other areas.

All research is conducted by an club researcher, and that information is then passed on to the head researcher, who does the balancing. It is the head researchers role to ensure the data is sensible and in line with reality, and in the case of Arsenal the research has seemed pretty accurate, as mentioned previously in the thread. Obviously there is a subjectivity when it comes to how you feel Arsenal's players are rated, and if you think they are too high/low/incorrect then you should raise it in the Arsenal data thread in the data forums.

This issue is more complex than some people's claims that Arsenal's research is rated too highly.

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Äktsjon Männ

Äktsjon Männ

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This is ultimately the result of SI's researching methods, they allow fans of clubs to do it

...

How else do you reckon it should be done then? Where would they get neutral people watching every senior, reserve and youth team game to conduct a fair research on the insane amount of players in the FM database? Should they hire like 128892 professional scouts to do it?

All other clubs in the premier League seem fairly rated anyway, looking at their performance. Arsenal are too strong for whatever reason but this does not automatically mean the overall research is poorly done.

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santy001

santy001

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The fact they have the lowest CA is often reflected by them not winning the title in the first season (much like last year) but then from the second season onwards they become unrealistically good. With full training facilities, the AI staff and all the other factors that affect player development, I expect by the end of the first season Arsenal's players CA's are not the lowest of the big 4 anymore.

And I really don't see how the research is in line with reality, unless of course, one persons view is far greater than the masses of others who have commented on it.

Here is a simple example at the start of the game Fabregas has 13 strength, he is 5'9" and 11 stone in weight, Abdoulaye Faye is 6'2" and 13 stone 9 with 15 strength. I'm a couple months into the start of my second season, Fabregas is on 15 strength now, so despite being a skinny little bloke of no real stature, he's on par with a large defender, and Ryan shawcross, 6'4" and 13 st 12 is also on 15 so now, a player who is quite clearly not up to matching the likes of these physically is able to.

Since height and weight are mainly cosmetic and it comes down to attributes, I can't help but feel this is a hugely unlikely reflection of Fabregas in 12 months time. I don't see him being able to compete with more muscled players like this.

Quite frankly, I think all the proof is right there that the research is rated too highly, now I use Stoke City players because quite frankly, compare to what you know best right? There's no point me comparing the Arsenal players I see every week on football first, match of the day, on sky etc to players that I also tend to see every week being the Stoke players as opposed to say Burnley players.

Here's another example though, Theo Walcott 11 strength - Seyi Olofinjana for your benefit incase you don't know who he is, he is a nigerian midfielder, 6'2 and 13 st 5 with 12 strength. Within 12 months Walcott will be stronger than him.

Yet another (for clear evidence of this, watch the Stoke City v Arsenal match from not too long ago) Adebayor 16 determination, 18 strength, 15 work rate, 14 bravery. Ryan Shawcross had this guy in his pocket all match until he got subbed off because he wasn't bothering, he had no desire to go for any 50-50's and Shawcross outmuscled him all game-long. So much so that Wenger had a right old good cry to the media afterwards. Shawcross only has 15 strength. How the hell was he able to outmuslce a guy who is according to the game/researcher, somewhat considerably stronger?

Now, one of the most "physical" teams in the premiership being Stoke City is already struggling to keep up with the physical nature of the arguably least physical team in the premiership. All of these comparisons have been evident for the last 18 months, for anyone who has been watching Arsenal regularly against their team and other teams. Arsenal have never been able to compete with the likes of Bolton either, yet the Arsenal side is already, with their "lowest" average CA's able to compete with them. So when they all improve over the next 2 or 3 years they end up unbeatable.

Aktsjon:

It's a good, cheap cost effective method, but there's always going to be some flaws, and its at times like these I believe when there is this many complaints they should be looking to change researcher. I know its unviable to do it other ways as cost effectively as this, but you have to admit, there is always the chance of bias slipping through with every team and it seems to be slipping through with Arsenal.

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SiN8

SiN8

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I can't remember the last time that they were serious contenders for thge league, (although that may be my anti-Arsenal tendancies surfacing). Certainly they have rocked Europe on occasion, but when it comes to the nitty gritty of the league they haven't been at the races fo years.

Arsenal led the EPL for most of last season. If the "nitty gritty" play didn't snap Eduardo's leg in two, they probably would have won the league. But to say they weren't a title contender is just untrue.

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SmurfDude

SmurfDude

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Arsenal led the EPL for most of last season. If the "nitty gritty" play didn't snap Eduardo's leg in two, they probably would have won the league. But to say they weren't a title contender is just untrue.

Nonsense. You are basing Arsenals lack of trophies on one injury? We can all say 'what if', but what does it prove? Nothing. Man united have had plenty of injuries over the years, at one point they had most of their defenders out, they still win plenty of silverware. It's also clear to see that Chelsea are much stronger than Arsenal. Even Liverpool seem just as strong this season. But according to FM09, Arsenal's team of kids are head and shoulders above everyone

Anyway this discussion has dragged on enough now, it's pretty obvious they need toning down a bit

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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As has been said in this thread before, of the top 4, Arsenal have the lowest average CA, so the thread has been in debate on whether or not the problem is occurring due to the research or other areas.

All research is conducted by an club researcher, and that information is then passed on to the head researcher, who does the balancing. It is the head researchers role to ensure the data is sensible and in line with reality, and in the case of Arsenal the research has seemed pretty accurate, as mentioned previously in the thread. Obviously there is a subjectivity when it comes to how you feel Arsenal's players are rated, and if you think they are too high/low/incorrect then you should raise it in the Arsenal data thread in the data forums.

This issue is more complex than some people's claims that Arsenal's research is rated too highly.

Skorp. Would you mind enlightening us then and suggesting reasons why so many people are seeing Arsenal dominate the EPL and Champions League in so many different saves?

While I fully appreciate there is a decent(ish) chance of Arsenal becoming the dominant force in England, I would suggest that it is less likely than any of the other top 4 dominating, so we are looking at a max of 25% probability assuming that nobody outside the top 4 will dominate.

Is that what you are saying the testing team found in their games? Because it;s not what we are seeing.

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SiN8

SiN8

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Nonsense. You are basing Arsenals lack of trophies on one injury? We can all say 'what if', but what does it prove? Nothing. Man united have had plenty of injuries over the years, at one point they had most of their defenders out, they still win plenty of silverware. It's also clear to see that Chelsea are much stronger than Arsenal. Even Liverpool seem just as strong this season. But according to FM09, Arsenal's team of kids are head and shoulders above everyone

Anyway this discussion has dragged on enough now, it's pretty obvious they need toning down a bit

I was responding to the assertions that Arsenal has not been a genuine title contender recently. My point still stands. And FM09 has Arsenal's kids rated appropriately with low CA.

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Jimbokav1971

Jimbokav1971

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The fact they have the lowest CA is often reflected by them not winning the title in the first season (much like last year) but then from the second season onwards they become unrealistically good. With full training facilities, the AI staff and all the other factors that affect player development, I expect by the end of the first season Arsenal's players CA's are not the lowest of the big 4 anymore.

And I really don't see how the research is in line with reality, unless of course, one persons view is far greater than the masses of others who have commented on it.

Here is a simple example at the start of the game Fabregas has 13 strength, he is 5'9" and 11 stone in weight, Abdoulaye Faye is 6'2" and 13 stone 9 with 15 strength. I'm a couple months into the start of my second season, Fabregas is on 15 strength now, so despite being a skinny little bloke of no real stature, he's on par with a large defender, and Ryan shawcross, 6'4" and 13 st 12 is also on 15 so now, a player who is quite clearly not up to matching the likes of these physically is able to.

Since height and weight are mainly cosmetic and it comes down to attributes, I can't help but feel this is a hugely unlikely reflection of Fabregas in 12 months time. I don't see him being able to compete with more muscled players like this.

Quite frankly, I think all the proof is right there that the research is rated too highly, now I use Stoke City players because quite frankly, compare to what you know best right? There's no point me comparing the Arsenal players I see every week on football first, match of the day, on sky etc to players that I also tend to see every week being the Stoke players as opposed to say Burnley players.

Here's another example though, Theo Walcott 11 strength - Seyi Olofinjana for your benefit incase you don't know who he is, he is a nigerian midfielder, 6'2 and 13 st 5 with 12 strength. Within 12 months Walcott will be stronger than him.

Yet another (for clear evidence of this, watch the Stoke City v Arsenal match from not too long ago) Adebayor 16 determination, 18 strength, 15 work rate, 14 bravery. Ryan Shawcross had this guy in his pocket all match until he got subbed off because he wasn't bothering, he had no desire to go for any 50-50's and Shawcross outmuscled him all game-long. So much so that Wenger had a right old good cry to the media afterwards. Shawcross only has 15 strength. How the hell was he able to outmuslce a guy who is according to the game/researcher, somewhat considerably stronger?

Now, one of the most "physical" teams in the premiership being Stoke City is already struggling to keep up with the physical nature of the arguably least physical team in the premiership. All of these comparisons have been evident for the last 18 months, for anyone who has been watching Arsenal regularly against their team and other teams. Arsenal have never been able to compete with the likes of Bolton either, yet the Arsenal side is already, with their "lowest" average CA's able to compete with them. So when they all improve over the next 2 or 3 years they end up unbeatable.

Aktsjon:

It's a good, cheap cost effective method, but there's always going to be some flaws, and its at times like these I believe when there is this many complaints they should be looking to change researcher. I know its unviable to do it other ways as cost effectively as this, but you have to admit, there is always the chance of bias slipping through with every team and it seems to be slipping through with Arsenal.

That's a really intelligent and well thought out post:thup:.

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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Skorp. Would you mind enlightening us then and suggesting reasons why so many people are seeing Arsenal dominate the EPL and Champions League in so many different saves?

If I knew exacty why then;

1. I wouldn't be in test, I would be in development ;)

2. It wouldn't be my place to state why/what is causing the problem anyway.

Is that what you are saying the testing team found in their games? Because it;s not what we are seeing.

As I said earlier in the thread, it is a known issue and is under review. There has never been any claim that this was not found or experienced by the test team.

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Glenn Wakeford

Glenn Wakeford

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Its not a glitch or an error; the release of the Arsenal Edition of FM should give you the answers as to why Arsenal are near invincible in this game.

How many times do I need to state that there is no deal of the sort to make Arsenal better in FM than they should be? It's a ludicrous, presumptuous and just plain wrong statement to make.

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