Arsenal is way too powerful

[CaptainPlanet]

I dont tihnk its consistency though, Its a whole club thing, not having a plan b so when they come up against certain styles they struggle, if they played west ham every week they would win every week, if they played stoke, bolton, hull, fulham every week they would struggle

If it was that simple, then it's clearly a match engine problem, certain tactics should nulify the way they play.

[Thrower]

4 English people?

Who? I can only think of Beckham and Owen

In fact in the last 5 years I can only think of Beckham Hargreaves Owen as Englishman playing abroad for a decent team, Before that there was Mcmanaman, but he was hardly good. In all fairness to Beckham, he's the only Englishman I can think of who has played for the best team in England the best team in Spain and about to play for the best Team in Italy, a few of the current Englishman would do well to follow his lead, Im not sure theres many good enough with the bottle to do it

hmn in that game it was beckham owen and woodgate no 4th englishman i was wrong there but still my point is valid i feel and i am sure many agree that it was not good for a english team to not have 1 english player in the team playing against a foreign team with 3 englishmen

But again if i can't win the league this season then its looking likely arsenal will be winning it for the 3rd time in a row

i looked at the finances and they are ranked the 3rd richest club in the world.

i am thinking maybe the only way to stop them is to buy some of there key players but with a £60m bid for walcott, fabregas and vala being rejected i am thinking its not that simple >.< lol

[phnompenhandy]

Here's a new piece of evidence:

I've created a superteam in the editor to replace West Ham. Into it I put the best players currently playing in the Premiership (according to me!). Naturally the vast majority are from the 'Big 4' and a whopping 13 are from Arsenal.

Specifically, from Arsenal I nicked the following: Clichy, Traore, Sagna, Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor, Walcott, Vela and some younger kids.

Crucially, I ticked the 'no transfers in first window' box, meaning that the clubs couldn't strengthen their squads until 2009 (well, apart from freebies released by 'West Ham' - no contradiction there). Yet, with a desperately depleted squad, Arsenal are still running me a close second ten games into the season.

By the way, Man U and Chelsea are close behind - I took a lot of their firstt eam regulars too; I took only 4 from Liverpool but they are still far back. This suggests that the players the AI manages have far less effect on the outcomes than ought to be the case.

[ubos]

Okay, let me explain it again. Ronaldo can use either foot which eats up a ton of CA which means that his attributes seem lower. Walcott can only use one foot which allows more CA for his other attributes. In the match engine, Walcott will only benefit from his stats if he moves the ball to his stronger foot while Ronaldo can use either one effectively. So I have no clue as to why you'd call Ronaldo mediocre.

My argument is based on the database. Arsenal's stats/CA are the lowest out of the big 4. You're just whinging and offering no analysis as to why Arsenal is so successful.

Not trying to doubt you but proof please? I haven't heard of this before that having the ability to place on either foot would "use up" some CA, leaving less CA to be distributed to the other attributes. That's news to me. Any proof? Cause I don't visit General Discussion often.

[ubos]

Here's a new piece of evidence:

I've created a superteam in the editor to replace West Ham. Into it I put the best players currently playing in the Premiership (according to me!). Naturally the vast majority are from the 'Big 4' and a whopping 13 are from Arsenal.

Specifically, from Arsenal I nicked the following: Clichy, Traore, Sagna, Fabregas, Nasri, Van Persie, Adebayor, Walcott, Vela and some younger kids.

Crucially, I ticked the 'no transfers in first window' box, meaning that the clubs couldn't strengthen their squads until 2009 (well, apart from freebies released by 'West Ham' - no contradiction there). Yet, with a desperately depleted squad, Arsenal are still running me a close second ten games into the season.

By the way, Man U and Chelsea are close behind - I took a lot of their firstt eam regulars too; I took only 4 from Liverpool but they are still far back. This suggests that the players the AI manages have far less effect on the outcomes than ought to be the case.

So Arsenal is still running a close second even though they are using the poorest players out of the big 4 and more of their reserve and youth team? Wow

In topic, haven't really noticed Arsenal's dominance cause I manage in the EPL and always win the titles and stuff, but I will notice next time I manage outside of England.

[Nomis07]

Not trying to doubt you but proof please? I haven't heard of this before that having the ability to place on either foot would "use up" some CA, leaving less CA to be distributed to the other attributes. That's news to me. Any proof? Cause I don't visit General Discussion often.

It's not true in that sense, but a player with two footedness will have lower attributes than a player with single footedness, it doesn't affect CA in any way. Overall it evens itself because emphasis is placed on two footedness, and so a player with lower attributes and two footedness will be as good or better than a player with better attributes, who can only use one foot.

It has absolutely nothing to do with CA.

[Majkee]

It is quite funny that 6 or more Arsenal players have 6 star CA rating compared to Aston Villa players, who I am managing - only Ashley Young and Gareth Barry have 5 stars in CA (Gabby and Nathan has 5 star PA). All others have 4 or less stars. Sidwell has only 3

That proves Arsenal are overrated, there is not so huge difference between those players in Arsenal and Villa.

[Butters76]

It's not Arsenal, it's good AI managers with decent teams, if they get on a roll they never loose. I went over 25 matches unbeaten had something like 22-5-1, you would think I was leading the league. Nope Man Utd did coz they only won.

[Butters76]

Majkee: The Arsenal players have a "much" higher toplevel IRL than the Villa players. However they can easily loose their head in physically though matches. The game does not seem to reflec inconsistency for a young team. Arsenal are often like 2 completely different team from one Weekend to the next. One weekend they can play fantastic football like no other team. Next weekend they can look like amateurs.

[Majkee]

Majkee: The Arsenal players have a "much" higher toplevel IRL than the Villa players. However they can easily loose their head in physically though matches. The game does not seem to reflec inconsistency for a young team. Arsenal are often like 2 completely different team from one Weekend to the next. One weekend they can play fantastic football like no other team. Next weekend they can look like amateurs.

I can agree with you but not completely. Is Gallas 6 or 7 stars player (compared to level on which Villa in FM is)? I do not think so. Is he better than Laursen? May be he is, but only for 1 star, not more. Is Sagna, Toure etc. so much better? I do not think so. Adebayor may be, van Persie may be, Fabregas may be, but not so much players with two or three star difference. It is too high. They are weak defensively weaker for sure than Villa imho.

[Butters76]

Those stars doesn't make sense, I tell you. They seem related to the best player in the team. You can have a team full of 5 stars in league 1, then you buy a new player that has a CA way over the rest of the team. Now the new player will have 5 or 6 stars while all the players that were 5 stars are now 4 stars or some of them even just 3 stars if the new player was alot better than the old ones.

Look at the stars on my Millwall team, sounds as high as your Villa team, although your 3 star players in Villa is alot better than my 6 star players because my best pleyer has say 140 CA, while your best player has 190 CA.

If I now was to cheat with a savegame editor and give one of my players CA 200, you will see the rest of the players in my MIllwall team will have 1 and 2 stars, while the edited player will have 7

[Majkee]

Those stars doesn't make sense, I tell you. They seem related to the best player in the team. You can have a team full of 5 stars in league 1, then you buy a new player that has a CA way over the rest of the team. Now the new player will have 5 or 6 stars while all the players that were 5 stars are now 4 stars or some of them even just 3 stars if the new player was alot better than the old ones.

Look at the stars on my Millwall team, sounds as high as your Villa team, although your 3 star players in Villa is alot better than my 6 star players because my best pleyer has say 140 CA, while your best player has 190 CA.

If I now was to cheat with a savegame editor and give one of my players CA 200, you will see the rest of the players in my MIllwall team will have 1 and 2 stars, while the edited player will have 7

Please stop, I am not a novice. These stars are not related to the best player of team imho, stars are related to some average number of CA of senior team players or something like that (may be + club reputation, ambition, level of league etc.). I do not know, how exactly is that average for star rating counted, but to be fair, comparing Millwall star ratings to Villa one is irrelevant with the team ambition, players quality etc.

If you are scouting some players, they are always COMPARED to your players star rating, so the difference is here and is quite HUGE between Villa and Arsenal. I can not agree with you in this point because I have been talking about difference compared Arsenal to Villa.

[SiN8]

Please stop, I am not a novice. These stars are not related to the best player of team imho, stars are related to some average number of CA of senior team players or something like that (may be + club reputation, ambition, level of league etc.). I do not know, how exactly is that average for star rating counted, but to be fair, comparing Millwall star ratings to Villa one is irrelevant with the team ambition, players quality etc.

If you are scouting some players, they are always COMPARED to your players star rating, so the difference is here and is quite HUGE between Villa and Arsenal. I can not agree with you in this point because I have been talking about difference compared Arsenal to Villa.

Why not just use CA instead of the star ratings? Open up the database and you'll see that Arsenal has lowest CA of the big 4. They are indeed better than Villa, but not by as much as you think. The real travesty here is that Tottenham has higher average CA than Villa. Quite undeserved considering they finished bottom half last year and currently in 16th place.

[Butters76]

Please stop, I am not a novice. These stars are not related to the best player of team imho, stars are related to some average number of CA of senior team players or something like that (may be + club reputation, ambition, level of league etc.). I do not know, how exactly is that average for star rating counted, but to be fair, comparing Millwall star ratings to Villa one is irrelevant with the team ambition, players quality etc.

If you are scouting some players, they are always COMPARED to your players star rating, so the difference is here and is quite HUGE between Villa and Arsenal. I can not agree with you in this point because I have been talking about difference compared Arsenal to Villa.

Then download a savegame editor change one player to CA 200 and see what happens to the stars of the other players! Works best on a lower league teams since the rest of the team has lower CA

[SiN8]

It's not true in that sense, but a player with two footedness will have lower attributes than a player with single footedness, it doesn't affect CA in any way. Overall it evens itself because emphasis is placed on two footedness, and so a player with lower attributes and two footedness will be as good or better than a player with better attributes, who can only use one foot.

It has absolutely nothing to do with CA.

Unless you have additional data, I think two footedness does take up CA. If you use an editor to change a two-footed players to only use one foot, his attributes will increase by a good amount.

Check out this thread -

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=56764

[Majkee]

Then download a savegame editor change one player to CA 200 and see what happens to the stars of the other players! Works best on a lower league teams since the rest of the team has lower CA

The result will be not so obvious with Villa. Average CA for Millwall is less lower as for Villa for sure. If you raise someone up to 200 it will have very different impact as if you do it with Villa. But I was not talking about that. In my OP I was talking about too much players who are better than Villa players and also the difference is much higher as it is irl based on star rating.

[Nomis07]

Unless you have additional data, I think two footedness does take up CA. If you use an editor to change a two-footed players to only use one foot, his attributes will increase by a good amount.

Attributes changing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with CA though, it's possible for a player with a lower CA to have better attributes than a player with higher CA (two footed or not).

It's possible for players attributes to change and their CA remain the same.

[Butters76]

The result will be not so obvious with Villa. Average CA for Millwall is less lower as for Villa for sure. If you raise someone up to 200 it will have very different impact as if you do it with Villa. But I was not talking about that. In my OP I was talking about too much players who are better than Villa players and also the difference is much higher as it is irl based on star rating.

Yes, but my point is the Arsenal players are very close to each other in CA (check the editor) they are from 160-175CA at start. So they have 6 or 7 stars. If I were to buy a CA200 player to Arsenal the 6 star players would fall to 5 stars and look worse even though they are just as good as they were beofre the new signing.

Say in your Villa Team you can have lots of players 155-170 but they get a lower star or 2 than the Arsenal team if you have a CA 185+ in your team. The average would barely move bringing in one new player when you already have a squad of 20+ players, but the stars see a drop all over the team.

[harrylee]

hmmm some tactic i tried out against arse..pretty convincing results.. 1 draw and 1 lose..but i amd pretty satisfied due to the fact that i lose to lucky goals and i bombarded them like no tml

just play narrow n shiort passing, marked fabregas tightly and showed on his right foot..no way arse gonna get their passing around the pitch with that little space and their fabulous fab tied..

[Butters76]

Speaking of Fabregas. How the hell do the AI managers get him to play so good, all versions. I have never ever had Fabregas play any good (not in 07,not in 08 and not in 09),. I just can't get him to perform no matter what I try.

When I play other teams the AI managers have him play great.

[moj]

Not trying to doubt you but proof please? I haven't heard of this before that having the ability to place on either foot would "use up" some CA, leaving less CA to be distributed to the other attributes. That's news to me. Any proof? Cause I don't visit General Discussion often.

He's correct, if you haven't heard then you've been living underneath a rock for the last couple of years.

[SiN8]

Attributes changing doesn't necessarily have anything to do with CA though, it's possible for a player with a lower CA to have better attributes than a player with higher CA (two footed or not).

It's possible for players attributes to change and their CA remain the same.

It's give and take. If you increase a relevant attribute, some CA will be used. For CA to remain the same, then some other relevant attribute will have to decrease. It's all about how CA is allocated into the various attributes and weaker foot values.

[Richie Brill]

Arsenal very rarely win anything on my game, if anything Man Utd are far to powerful on FM for me as they won the Quad 2 seasons in a row, the chances of this irl must be something along the lines of 2b/1

The most I have ever seen Arsenal win is a League Cup beating Tottenham in the final iirc

[moj]

i'm playing as arsenal, seeing as i've supported them for 30 years it seemed like the obvious choice. up until the end of season 4 i would agree that they are too powerful. i'd won the league 3 seasons in a row, finished 2nd in my 4th season, won the champions league once and been runner up once. because of their financial superiority had managed to buy casillas, diarra, ramos, messi and ibrahimovic. now in my 5th season i'm close to the sack. without doing anything differently i've only managed to win 1 in 7 league games. not sure how this has happened.

so arsenal have bought casillas, diarra, ramos, messi and ibrahimovic in your save? hmmmm... this is unknown of, mind providing a screenshot or a game save?

[T4RG4]

Arsenal in my current game lead the pack by 10 points, have yet to lose a game (only drawn twice), have a massive goal difference, far more goals for and fewest against. How I will challenge them I dont know - it will be done though

Looking at some of their players... they are rated far too highly IMO. Sure, they have some brilliantly technical players (Fab) but others arent quite so hot yet I've have them in my team like a shot.

[Smellfire]

In game message just came up and arsenal are now on a 60 odd unbeaten record in the premiership.

Second Season in and only time they lost was 4th game last season against Newcastle at home.

I drew home and away last season as Tottenham and lost 1-0 this season in premiership.

Don't think they would be able to equal their record of unbeaten they did a few seasons ago in real life with the current team.

They won Champions League and League Cup v Liverpool. Lost in Final in FA Cup v Liverpool.

Do you reckon the new changes are actually going to work?

[Josh_lee]

in my save game, arsenal totally unbeatable........

and they have already won 3 season in a row,and 2 seasons with 100 pts +

what a joke it is

[Nick A]

1. Those key areas are weighted to use up more CA. Could you give an example of a Arsenal player with low CA, but un-proportionately good attributes?

2. Of course more players = more injuries. What are you trying to say here? Arsenal has a thin squad. Everyone knows that.

Everyone needs to stop saying Arsenal is over-rated. Check out the database. If anything, Arsenal is under-rated. There's only 3 players above 170 CA compared to 9 at Chelsea and ManU.

Just joined this thread so sorry if someone has said this.

In one breath people are saying young squad and the ME not taking that into account; if anything the consistency rating is too high for the majority of the players as they are young and performances will be up and down.

Then in the next breath, people say not enough players with a high enough CA. Well if the players are all young with the squad not likely to be ready for 2 or 3 years, why would you have more than a few with CA over 170? Surely they are too young yet to have a CA of 170.

Most of the arguments raised - especially SIN8 - seem to forget their age. Yes they are talented youngsters, but they are just that; youngsters. The other squads have older players and hence their CA's are bound to be higher; they will not have anywhere near as much improvement.

[Nick A]

Petr cech is in the top most consistent GK performers in the league, with Given and Friedel in real life.

My premiership results with me not playing any of these teams are :

2008 Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man U

2009 Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man U

2010 Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Tottenham, Liverpool

2011 Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham, Liverpool

2012 Arsenal, Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool

Now Arsenal have a good team, but not that good to win 4 outa 5 league titles. In game they have bought in 8 players TOTAL in 5 seasons. 4 on frees, and spent total of £50m on other 4, last one was £20m for my left back. Not very realistic tbh.

Actually did you know Almunia has the same CA as Friedel? Now that is totally unrealistic.

[Nick A]

Why don't we all just stop whinging, and become better!

Let's thrash them ourselves and put them back in their place. Give a bit more of a challenge to the game!

In 2009/10 I did thrash them 3 times (league cup as well) and they were the onlygames they lost all season............

[Smellfire]

Actually did you know Almunia has the same CA as Friedel? Now that is totally unrealistic.

Don't look at CAs besides what scouts and Ass man tells me but does surprise me.

[Andrej 505]

in 2008/2009 season in my game arsenal have won league, fa cup, champions league and carling cup and continue to win everything in 2009/2010 season, unbeatable

[Smellfire]

I just beat Arsenal in league 3 games ago, now I've drawn them in league cup next week

Hope I can do it again, its my main target for this season, to get some silverware in.

[zak bentley]

In my first season with Man City, Arsenal finished 22 points ahead of 2nd with

w d l pts

32 5 1 101!!!!!!!!!

Ridiculous.

[hilton210916]

I always wondered what the fuss was about, with people moaning saying how Arsenal were to good. So i thought I'd see for myself and their BLOODY! right 27 games gone they are 14 points in front of me and 12 in front of Chelsea and remain undefeated . What's more I have them in the League Cup final and I have already lost to them twice this season. And with their self proclaimed wonder-kids they can only get better.

[taz0711]

is there a tactic to stop them!!!

lost in champions league final, league cup final + fa cup final

never want to face them again

[tecni]

in 2008/2009 season in my game arsenal have won league, fa cup, champions league and carling cup and continue to win everything in 2009/2010 season, unbeatable

how many times did you reload?

you sound so bitter regarding anything about the gunners. poor boy, hope you didnt lost any sleep over it.

[alanricouk]

Van Persie, Adebayor have PA's of 185:D Walcott 182, and Clichy 180 They are better, or as good as Sneijder, Xavi, Iniesta, Scholes and Ferdinand.

Some how I dont think so.

[hilton210916]

League cup quarter final - Arsenal = I lost

Champions league last 8 - Arsenal = I lost

Premier league - Currently 2nd - Arsenal top unbeaten = I lost

FA Cup - Final - Got Arsenal = I think I'm going to lose again

I would go as far to say this is a bug in the game SI you have give Arsenal steroids and I hope it's clearly sorted out before the next patch.

[SCIAG]

Clichy can be that good, A71 already said he might drop Walcott's PA. Adebayor and RVP won't reach that in game anyway as they're too old.

[Pauljs]

It must just be different saves, because Arsenal are not too powerful on my game, they are 4th or 5th

[AcidBurn]

Eboue seems to score against me quite alot its a bit strange. On a whole they are probably the best team in the EPL on the game, Adebayor scores a hell of alot of goals. I just managed to win the league cup quarter finals against them 8-4 on agg, revenge for last year as they knocked me out at the same stage.

I think what makes them seem so good is that the other members of the big 4 tend to fall away as the game goes on but Arsenal stay there.

[ubos]

He's correct, if you haven't heard then you've been living underneath a rock for the last couple of years.

Sorry I have a life that revolves outside this forum, therefore not coming to this forum and thus not knowing about this doesn't mean I have been living under a rock.

Playing in the Spanish league now, and Arsenal is top of the EPL after 22 games, with Man Utd and Chelsea 4 points behind.

[Campyyyyyyyy]

Arsenal are way too good imo, i always meet them in finals, whether it be FA cup, league cup, community shield, or ECC. I have trouble beating them too, adebayor is just too crazy, easily the best striker in the world.

[santy001]

I started out in the premiership, but as Stoke and every time I do get close to challenging them in some way, they take my best player and send me back to square one. It also means because I didn't go overly zealous at the league spending huge amounts hoping it didn't backfire so its taken me a good 4/5 seasons before I've entered the foray as a top 4 side, and probably another year or two before I become title contenders (courtesy of 4 seasons in a row arsenal taking my best player then dropping him to the reserves a season later) and arsenal are at the point of utter domination. CL each year since after the first season, premiership title the same, FA cup every year since the beginning of teh game, and 3 league cups. It'll be difficult to break the stronghold.

[Barkermush]

End of my 3rd season just checked, Arsenal have won the last 3 Prem Titles, Won the last 3 Champions League Finals, Won the last 3 League cup finals. They had won the previous 2 Fa Cups but this season they were knocked out in the 6th round 3-0 away at Man City.

I want to borrow Wenger's tactic on the game.

[santy001]

As I've said in other threads, Arsenal's players lack determination, work rate and team work - the tippy tappy stuff isn't good team work, its ball retention, line up any 4 kids and tell them to pass along a line and they can, or alternatively, get west brom - when they go behind they often lose the impetus to push on, especially against weaker opposition, you never see the players chasing lost causes or anything like that in premiership games which indicates a high work rate.

Adebayor: 14 bravery, 16 determination, 14 team work, 16 work rate. I'm sorry but anyone who has seen him play knows as soon as a defender goes in a bit what he perceives harsh on him he becomes completely anonymous. Even preferring to go off in some games because he hasn't got the bottle for it (Stoke City this season if I recall but most of which was evident last season).

Toure: Good a few seasons ago granted, but now seems quite lethargic on a football pitch whenever I've seen arsenal. Again doesn't deserve his work rate stat. Positioning has, as evident last season as well this season been woeful at times.

You can go through the whole team and find players who are over-rated, I've seen Walcott with strength on par with the likes of some 6'4 defenders who would knock him all over the place on the pitch.

[AcidBurn]

They have never won the champions league in the first 6 seasons on my game but have won 5 prem titles and various othe rdomestic cups.

[Barkermush]

[oTRUTHo]

what about man-u? & newcastle?

in my game its 2013 & man-u have just been doced 9point for going into administration & newcastle have been relegated...