Any options in FM21 to make game harder challenge?

[Matej]

Any new options at start of the game, like attribute masking for example, to make game bit harder? Tnx. 

[Neil Brock]

Not 'new' options, but ones which are in game are that you can always make your manager experience much lower which means you'll have to work harder to earn your players respect, win over the board and have a lower visibility of transfer targets. Plus you won't be much use in training!

Everyone plays it differently - sometimes I challenge myself by making my own tactic from scratch. Or force myself not to sign anyone until the second transfer window (so sticking with the real life squad for at least half a season). Hope some of them are of use. 

[Matej]

Tnx for quick response!

 In future please make some new options, like OPTION for even more time needed to see players real atributes. For example, that even after full scouting,  you still have like 15-18 ratings. I think that for at least for some ratings, player needs to join your team to see his full potential. If you understand what Im sayin. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

1 hour ago, Neil Brock said:

Plus you won't be much use in training!

I forget, but can you go from all 1's to all 20's in attributes this way?

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

5 hours ago, Matej said:

Any new options at start of the game, like attribute masking for example, to make game bit harder? Tnx. 

One of the biggest criticisms people have is the massive advantage the human player has in regards to squad building and buying/selling players over the AI. If you want to put yourself on an even keel with the AI in that regard, delegate all transfer activity to your DOF or whoever, then just work with whoever they bring in. Thinking of doing something similar in my main save this year, but not sure I'll have the discipline for it! 

[Impacto]

9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

One of the biggest criticisms people have is the massive advantage the human player has in regards to squad building and buying/selling players over the AI. If you want to put yourself on an even keel with the AI in that regard, delegate all transfer activity to your DOF or whoever, then just work with whoever they bring in. Thinking of doing something similar in my main save this year, but not sure I'll have the discipline for it! 

Yeah but one of the most fun things we can do in FM is sign players. Taking away one of the best aspects of the game to make it a challenge is not a good idea, imo. 

Starting with a club in a top division with your manager having no reputation and no transfers in the first windown is actually a challenge. But it's not that fun, because it's all about morale and waiting it out until you win the players over. Players don't like you at the start and no matter the tactic(unless it's ME exploiting) you will struggle. If you get lucky in a few games(most times you won't) and get throught the Janurary transfer window you can get rid of all the poor personality players and bring your own. Then the dressing room athmosphere will improve and the new players won't insantly be against you, which can give you the chance to get a few wins and survive the first season. From there on out it's the same old FM. 

So not that much of a challenge really, just a waiting game and a bit of luck(notice how many times your team hits the bar/post in games - happens every time).

But let me give you some ideas, in case you're looking for something relatively challenging to do:

1. Win the Premierleague (or any other league) with 10 different clubs in one save. Start with a relegation candidate and after you win the league, you resign and do it again. Doing a save this way prevents you from dominating a league after the first win when normally things get boring. And you get the added effect of having to fight a strong team that you build every time you change a club. 

2. Win the league with at least 3 completely different tactics. Defensive - Dyche/Pulis style, High-tempo - Klopp style,  & Control- Pep style. You can even link it with the first challenge idea and spice it up. 

3. And you can always try the youth challenges, but they always get boring for me and again, you're restricting yourself to not use one of the most fun aspects of the game. 

Those 3 things come to my mind, I that gave you some ideas for a fun save. I really hope that the improved loading times in FM 21 will mean a chance for a much improved AI in FM 22. Fingers crossed  

[FlorianAlbert9]

I don't know if it's hard to program or if is a choice to attract more users (that is totally a legitimate choice, of course), but It sad that to make a game more harder instead of having a smarter ai, i (user) have to act stupidly (that are the choice we have now)

[rsihn]

14 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I forget, but can you go from all 1's to all 20's in attributes this way?

 

Yes.   You won't quite hit 20 in every stat but they'll all be above 16 with many 20s thrown in. 

[KlaaZ]

9 hours ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

I don't know if it's hard to program or if is a choice to attract more users (that is totally a legitimate choice, of course), but It sad that to make a game more harder instead of having a smarter ai, i (user) have to act stupidly (that are the choice we have now)

There are ways to make the game more challenging without acting stupidly though. @Impacto already stated a few but here's some more:

1) Start unemployed with no coaching badges and set yourself some goals (winning the top league in a country, winning the CL, winning the WC).

2) Go for a youth only challenge

3) Set yourself some other transfer restrictions (only sign players from the country you're managing in, only sign players U18/U21, only sign players under a certain amount, letting your DOF handle transfers).

The problem is that a lot of people start in a big five league with a top team and then complain that the game is too easy. 

[patpul]

23 hours ago, Matej said:

Any new options at start of the game, like attribute masking for example, to make game bit harder? Tnx. 

How do I play to "switch on" hardcore mode?

* First of all - always take team from the lowest league which is predicted to finish at the bottom.
* I set no managers licence and lowest exiperience as a player.
* I don't use "search tool" when I'm looking for staff or playeres - I'm hiring staff that only answered for my job advert and players only found by my scouts or offered by agent.

I think these are the main goals of my HC mode game I always use

[thehig2]

On 11/11/2020 at 17:28, Neil Brock said:

Or force myself not to sign anyone until the second transfer window (so sticking with the real life squad for at least half a season). Hope some of them are of use. 

Normally have to do that anyway, as no one buys your players in first window and unless your a really big team you have little budget in first window. 

[afailed10]

Try to win the league with all the players containing the "tries tricks" ppm's. Can't have double digits in teamwork as well. Good luck! 

[FlorianAlbert9]

11 ore fa, KlaaZ ha scritto:

There are ways to make the game more challenging without acting stupidly though. @Impacto already stated a few but here's some more:

1) Start unemployed with no coaching badges and set yourself some goals (winning the top league in a country, winning the CL, winning the WC).

2) Go for a youth only challenge

3) Set yourself some other transfer restrictions (only sign players from the country you're managing in, only sign players U18/U21, only sign players under a certain amount, letting your DOF handle transfers).

The problem is that a lot of people start in a big five league with a top team and then complain that the game is too easy. 

That's exactly act stupidly. 

Premise that i played always at a second league team in Hungary. 

And that i buy only U18 (at least for the first 3 years, the max U21). 

That's not change the difficulty level.

It's harder win in Europe only for the low reputation of your League not for the ability of AI. 

I repeat that's act stupidly, cause one thing Is to choice cause you want follow your taste/philosopy, another thing it's limit yourself. 

Cause you limit yourself to make It harder. So you can also play blind, or make worst tactic. 

Oh and harder in that case meaning only more time nedeed in most of the case. 

The thing: "The problem is that a lot of people start in a big five league with a top team and then complain that the game is too easy." It Is so absurd that i don't believe you really think It. 

Cause It Is in the very top that the difficulty have to be bigger. 

But why do you really think that in real life top teams pay so much Guardiola/Klopp/Conte if were so easy win?

Juventus this year: take Pirlo and despite have the best team so far they struggle (and they are lucky that they get 3 points for Napoli didnt want played)

 

[KlaaZ]

Just now, FlorianAlbert9 said:

That's exactly act stupidly. 

Premise that i played always at a second league team in Hungary. 

And that i buy only U18 (at least for the first 3 years, the max U21). 

That's not change the difficulty level.

It's harder win in Europe only for the low reputation of your League not for the ability of AI. 

I repeat that's act stupidly, cause one thing Is to choice cause you want follow your taste/philosopy, another thing it's limit yourself. 

Cause you limit yourself to make It harder. So you can also play blind, or make worst tactic. 

Oh and harder in that case meaning only more time nedeed in most of the case. 

The thing: "The problem is that a lot of people start in a big five league with a top team and then complain that the game is too easy." It Is so absurd that i don't believe you really think It. 

Cause It Is in the very top that the difficulty have to be bigger. 

But why do you really think that in real life top teams pay so much Guardiola/Klopp/Conte if were so easy win?

Juventus this year: take Pirlo and despite have the best team so far they struggle (and they are lucky that they get 3 points for Napoli didnt want played)

 

Your presumption is that the AI has to be better to make the game more difficult. I'm saying that it's not the only way to increase game difficulty.

Either way, you can't expect an AI, especially in a game this complicated, to make decisions a human would.

[FlorianAlbert9]

43 minuti fa, KlaaZ ha scritto:

Your presumption is that the AI has to be better to make the game more difficult. I'm saying that it's not the only way to increase game difficulty.

Either way, you can't expect an AI, especially in a game this complicated, to make decisions a human would.

And in that you're right. 

So, if It Is not possibile make AI stronger, SI should erase the power of human in that things that human act differently from AI. 

Example: young vs old players 

AI would always prefer players in their best ages: 26-31. 

But human can win a league even with a U19 team, 'cause in FM youngs have not all the 'issue' that they have in real life. 

Youngs (generally) must have less decision (that should be the most important attributes with inportant Matches), less continuity for istance and use even only a young should be a disk.

And should be harder scouting youngs (so harder to buy a good one)

 

 

 

 

[KlaaZ]

5 minutes ago, FlorianAlbert9 said:

And in that you're right. 

So, if It Is not possibile make AI stronger, SI should erase the power of human in that things that human act differently from AI. 

Example: young vs old players 

AI would always prefer players in their best ages: 26-31. 

But human can win a league even with a U19 team, 'cause in FM youngs have not all the 'issue' that they have in real life. 

Youngs (generally) must have less decision (that should be the most important attributes with inportant Matches), less continuity for istance and use even only a young should be a disk.

And should be harder scouting youngs (so harder to buy a good one)

 

 

 

 

For that last one, you can just give yourself the same limitation the AI has: Only approach players brought up by your scouts. 

[FlorianAlbert9]

49 minuti fa, KlaaZ ha scritto:

For that last one, you can just give yourself the same limitation the AI has: Only approach players brought up by your scouts. 

Yes, i made It. 

It's not the same i want to say.

I mean that a scout cannot know exactly attributes of a player who don't play a single senior game. 

While now i can pick a U19 player who don't play a single senior game in a bottom team and use him as regular in my top team. 

And that's the other problems that the difference in the attributes are to low. So it Is easy for human take avarage players (because they are more than the food ones) and win with them while AI look for good ones.

[Piksi#10]

I use the editor to give all the top managers (and prospect managers) in world football maximum (or close to maximum ratings) and use the in-game editor to buff their head of youth development, director of football, coaches and scouts. Last year was the first year I noticed it helped. But in general there still is a breaking point, where your team just takes over. 

I would love a more challenging game, even if it would mean I would be stuck in the same position for years. SI have to understand that some of us are looking for that ultimate challenge. I've been playing this game since CM 97/98. I know what to do to win and last year I managed to do it without gegenpressing (which I love IRL), just because it was too easy with that style of play turned on. I always self impose certain rules that make the game harder, like the lowest possible rep, no search engines, only signing players through scouting and trying different styles of play,  but I would like the AI to really step their game up. Please consider creating a more challenging game, with an AI on steroids if you will. 

[wkdsoul]

The mod I made last year removing all the attributes or having bars again was quite popular..

[epicrecruit]

On 11/11/2020 at 12:11, Matej said:

Any new options at start of the game, like attribute masking for example, to make game bit harder? Tnx. 

A popular tough challenge is the Dafuge Challenge. There's a thread about it, google it.

Basically you start the game with a temporary unemployed manager, go on vacation until next summer until all leagues finished. Then you retire this temporary manager, and create your real manager, and put him in charge of one of the 3 teams that were just promoted to the bottom English league (so at the start of the game, they weren't even a playable team). Now try to get them to the top of the english pyramid. You have no money, all facilities are in atrocious state. I had 97 season ticket holders when I tried it.

 

[sporadicsmiles]

The obvious ones are manage smaller clubs with small budgets. 

Use attribute masking. 

Only buy players your scouts suggest, no using the player search with filters to find young future prospects.

Only use your own tactics, never download them. 

But in the end once you are good at FM then you are good at FM. The game is a lot simpler than people seem to think. Then you just find enjoyment by getting what you want out of a save. Last year I loved rebuilding Milan with talented young Italian players and maximizing the youth that came through. Not the most challenging challenge, but the most important thing is that I had fun.

[Shpamo]

8 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

The mod I made last year removing all the attributes or having bars again was quite popular..

I really enjoyed using that mod. Thanks! Are you planning on making it for FM21 as well?

[wkdsoul]

38 minutes ago, Shpamo said:

I really enjoyed using that mod. Thanks! Are you planning on making it for FM21 as well?

'yeah woudl think so.

[FlorianAlbert9]

10 ore fa, wkdsoul ha scritto:

The mod I made last year removing all the attributes or having bars again was quite popular..

I Will try It! 

It Will be possible have the mod removing only selected attributes? (Example i think that pace should be visible cause It can be mesured, but decision no)

[wkdsoul]

i dont think so, but i'll have a look/

[Domathon]

try having a sunday league reputation in charge of a top divison team whos tipped for relegation (newcastle) all team hates you and everything you say comes off poorly if you can survive a few months after selling everyone and bringing in 10 brazilians all from the under 20s international team

[Erimus1876]

11 hours ago, wkdsoul said:

The mod I made last year removing all the attributes or having bars again was quite popular..

+1

But why did SI remove bars?  Its baffling as they were in the options for older FMs, but they took them out around FM18/19.

'Fog of War' options have been asked for since the FM12 days.  I can't see why SI don't add a variety of them as options in the preferences, along with some handicaps or AI boosts - then we'd have the flexibility and options to find a level of "challenge" as we see fit.   Not ideal, but lets face it, the AI squad building logic will never ever be a match or even come close to human thinking, experimentation, and perseverance.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Erimus1876 said:

But why did SI remove bars?  Its baffling as they were in the options for older FMs, but they took them out around FM18/19.

There were issues with them on some screens and/or resolutions.

[afailed10]

I think FM is not just about winning or beating the computer, otherwise what would be the point of playing against a computer for over 20 years? 

No, for me the fun is creating the narrative yourself. Say, implementing a style of football and extend it throughout your club, to the reserves, u19s, staff, player recruitment etc. And win things that way. If you lose the fun after winning it all it probably means you did it the wrong way!