An Open Question to Long Time FM players

[turns88]

As I've got older and as the game has developed I've gone from enjoying the transfers side of the game to enjoying the tactical side of the game, it's so in depth now and really satisfying to see your tactical changes being carried out in the ME. I never understand why people download other people's tactics, I wouldn't gain any satisfaction out of winning trophies using someone else's work!

One thing I would say is that the game has got harder and harder as the year's have gone by, and also far more time consuming. I play the FM classic but it still takes quite a while to complete a season.

[xinsomniacboix]

Maybe you just need a break from it or another complex game to get into for a while. As good as it can get, I don't think it's reasonable to expect any game to satisfy you every day for years on end. Do you enjoy 4x or grand strategy type games?

[PG41]

It seems that people, and I'm not necessarily talking about the OP here, feel a constant pressure to 'like' the latest and greatest version of FM at any given time and that pressure lessens the fun.

Just because a game is newer than a predecessor, more advanced with higher reviews, that doesn't mean that the game is better for you. Perhaps you're happy winning 65% of your games instead of struggling in a more realistic fashion, and that's fine. Perhaps you're happier without all the jibber-jabber and just want to buy players and watch them play football, even though the jibber-jabber is more representative of what a real Football Manager does, and that's fine too. Perhaps you're really into a tactical approach and a team you built on an old version and you don't have the time or desire to shelve that and learn a new style of play, even though you might not really want to admit that to yourself.

My point is that every new release of FM doesn't need to trigger an existential crisis. In the end it's all about what's the most fun for you. If you can't get excited about FM 2015, why not skip a version and see what SI's long term plan is? I only buy a new version about once every 3 years, but I enjoy the game overall as much as anyone. And because I'm buying the versions less frequently, I can really see the improvements that have taken place... like if someone loses 20 pounds but you see them every day, it's hard to notice the weight loss... but if you haven't seen them in 6 months and they lost 20 pounds in the interim then you recognize that they look great.

On an aside, I think the complaints have subsided because older players have developed a tolerance for Steam and the non-football interactions on the newer versions... the older players that didn't adapt have said their bit and are gone, and were replaced by newer, more accepting players.

I also think a lot of complaints would be eradicated if FM were more customizable... a bunch of checkboxes like Board Interference? On Off... Morale? On Off... etc. FMC is nice, but I think SI makes a lot of assumptions about the things that people want and don't want in their game.

[Dagenham_Dave]

A longer development cycle means bigger strides forward

Unless you're Duke Nukem or Axl Rose of course.

[DuncanBarr]

Deary me...

Since you seem so upset, I'll outline it for you, maybe calm you down slightly. Below is the blurb on the Steam page for Football Manager 2015. Have a read through it, and tell me which parts are false advertising. Extra points if you can find the parts you've bellowed about in your post.

Erm....all the bits he "bellowed" about are in the "Matchday Experience" section of the blurb......maybe you should read through it too.....

[Hilly27]

Having played every version since 1999 there is no doubt the game has improved immeasurably, but it's the 'little' things that irritate me, that really shouldn't happen in this game. For example, the Club World Championship. It's clear that no one has bothered with this, concentrating, no doubt on 'improved media relations!'. I'm over in Korea with my 23 man squad, yet half of them are available for an U.21's match at Watford on the day of my semi-final. As for the semi-final against a Saudi team, five players in the Squad were real, the rest grey players. Ok, so what, but when I come to play the game, seven of the team have fitness at 55% or below. By the way, I had my centre half sent off after 30 mins, and still won 11-0!.

In a previous game, I manage in the premier league for two years and then get the England job. I win the Confederations Cup and then the World Cup. I then resign. Although my biography records this, when I go for my next job interview, I'm asked why have been out of the game for two years. My international career has been erased.

There are so many other examples of these small, irritating things, but my point is, if you can't get the little things right, is it any wonder that players get frustrated and disillusioned when major issues are clearly not as they should be.

[grade]

I agree with some aspects that was stated here. Little things here and there, make me loose of touching the game. Si has been for this approach for realism for quite a while. I for one believe they need to focus on the fun part of game. Don't add features for the sake of adding realism to the game.

For those asking for realism for the game, I say what about LLM? A lot of people play for the possibility of fantasy game of leading small club into world domination? Do you really want to remove that feature for sake of realism? Balance is key my friends, balance between fun and realism is key! I believe have been severely lacking for several years.

I will say one thing. a critic. 3d animations were introduced back on 2008 in FM09, it was 7 years. Yet only 7 years later, they decide to use motion capture, now? That in some way, confuses the hell out of me.

Happy games!

[soldierblue123]

I have played every version of the game since CM1 appeared for the Amiga. I love this game and for me FM15 is brilliant. Thoroughly enjoying it.

[Antoz7]

What tosh. I have been playing since the mid 90s and without fail, every annual update is an improvement on the last. I play FM15 pretty much 24/7, thanks to some great opportunities, and a very understanding boss and wife. It is without doubt the very best CM/FM ever released, and I will wait until FM16 is out, even though I know it will be even better. Because I can play FM15 each and ever day until it is eventually and inevitably replaced. Perfection for me.

[Cougar2010]

For those asking for realism for the game, I say what about LLM? A lot of people play for the possibility of fantasy game of leading small club into world domination? Do you really want to remove that feature for sake of realism? Balance is key my friends, balance between fun and realism is key! I believe have been severely lacking for several years.

LLM isn't and should never be about taking your small club to world domination, you should be happy with realistic improvement.

But balance is key here, yes it should be possible to take a small club into the top tier and beyond into continental competition but it should take time, lots of it. Promotions year after year should be hard to achieve and they are in recent FMs without bringing outside knowledge into the save. Continued improvements to FM in areas like AI squad building, finances, transfer market and player interaction should make it harder still which is what FM should be striving for.

That might not suit everyone but SI/FM have never pretended to be something that its not, the aim has always been to produce a realistic football simulation.

[fabioke]

LLM isn't and should never be about taking your small club to world domination, you should be happy with realistic improvement.

But balance is key here, yes it should be possible to take a small club into the top tier and beyond into continental competition but it should take time, lots of it. Promotions year after year should be hard to achieve and they are in recent FMs without bringing outside knowledge into the save. Continued improvements to FM in areas like AI squad building, finances, transfer market and player interaction should make it harder still which is what FM should be striving for.

That might not suit everyone but SI/FM have never pretended to be something that its not, the aim has always been to produce a realistic football simulation.

Completely agree!

The game itself needs to become more difficult/realistic without becoming dishonest.

To keep it fun the board could be more lenient towards you if you have the club listed as your favorite club.

[robin_trott_hoof]

This is my first FM since 2012. Until the past few weeks I had barely played any version of the game in almost two years which has helped freshen it up for me.

This version has some flaws - the interface is a bit fiddly at first, and there are far far too many goals - but I'd say that it represents another solid progression.

[speedy316]

So I like many of you have played every iteration of FM and have enjoyed the minutes and hours clicking away. I feel I am running away from the game, because it is not working for me. This match engine is not working for me. I don't want to post screenshots or upload save games. Those of us who have played it long enough can feel it. We can feel something is wrong. We can see it in the scores, and the defending and the illogical games. People will point to real life and games where that sometimes defy logic. But the difference with this match engine is this a trend not a one off game.

I am desperate for the game to work and for me to play. I bought the game and after playing it for a while, it has been sitting unplayed and unopened for the last month. This has never happenned in my last ten years of FM/CM. I am not looking to be combative or argue the merits of the match engine. I am just looking to SI at what made them successful and different from every other development company - listening to the users and making it better. I want to ask when the SI guys who play the game, and I know they play it, whether they feel the same?

I am aching to play the game - literally this game has been an almost daily ritual for the last ten years. And I cannot because I know its flawed. And many of us out there know its flawed and either are like me or are making excuses of why its still working.

I can only pray for 15.3.

Open question, without being antagonistic, do you feel the same?

I agree with Zambian something has been very wrong with this game for a while, its seems the most of the effort is pumped into things that arent broken (and now are broken) the incessant press confrences, seasoned veteran players who have high intelligence, and posititioning ratings playing like they just got out of the youth academy. I pre-ordered FM2015 and i have barely put any time into it, prefering to put my time into my old save on FM2014. The problems i have is mostly injuries, i dont run a rigourus training setup but yet everytime i am doing well, i will be blighted by injuries in one area of the pitch (at the moment i have 8 central midfielders on the physios bench, Damn 8!) my season will stall and i end up 2nd or 3rd. I also had 5 players brought off due to injury in a single game 5! An absolute joke. The game seems purposefully made for you to try and win the league only for injuries to blight your season to all your players and you fail, The thing is they have done this in such a way so you fail but such a small margain that you think with a couple of signings i could win next season only for you to fail again because all your strikers forget how to score mid season. Frankly the last game that seemed fair to me was FM2012, you got injuries but not so many you couldnt function, players played according to the stats not playing to luck or some kind of witchcraft, you didnt hit the crossbar 9000 times a game, you wingers cross instead of taking ridiculous shots and stupid angles! if they go in you think "wow that was a great goal!" but the thing is they attepmt it 100 times a season and score one time!

[grade]

LLM isn't and should never be about taking your small club to world domination, you should be happy with realistic improvement.

But balance is key here, yes it should be possible to take a small club into the top tier and beyond into continental competition but it should take time, lots of it. Promotions year after year should be hard to achieve and they are in recent FMs without bringing outside knowledge into the save. Continued improvements to FM in areas like AI squad building, finances, transfer market and player interaction should make it harder still which is what FM should be striving for.

That might not suit everyone but SI/FM have never pretended to be something that its not, the aim has always been to produce a realistic football simulation.

I disagree with you. The reason is quite simple, it is a computer game in its core. Games are for recreational and thus people do it for fun. Sure FM is simulation game and I don't deny it should aim to be realistic, but only on certain areas. I think that It should be stay away from transfers for example. Why? simply because, there should always be the possibility to hire the best players in the world if your team has earn the right amount of reputation. I should be able in team like Benfica be able to hire Ronaldo and Messi to my team if my team and the league we are playing have enough reputation to hire both players. If transfers are simply aimed for realism, without any sport of fantasy available, then it looses all possibilities of such a transfer to happen and for me the FM simply dies. It is simply a one example of many.

As for LLM I disagree with you in part. It is about that small club into successful club and winning every cup there is available. But I do agree that being promoted year after year is unrealistic and also I agree with the improvement of squad building and transfers and finances and all of that, but I feel the game cannot strive only to be just for realism. It needs to have a sense of fantasy in it. Fantasy of being able to do the impossible with some level of challenge, for sure. Which is Why I always defend a balance between realism and fun/fantasy.

The game should strive for realism without alienating the fanbase. FM should keep the possibilities of the impossible possible.

[themadsheep2001]

I disagree with you. The reason is quite simple, it is a computer game in its core. Games are for recreational and thus people do it for fun. Sure FM is simulation game and I don't deny it should aim to be realistic, but only on certain areas. I think that It should be stay away from transfers for example. Why? simply because, there should always be the possibility to hire the best players in the world if your team has earn the right amount of reputation. I should be able in team like Benfica be able to hire Ronaldo and Messi to my team if my team and the league we are playing have enough reputation to hire both players. If transfers are simply aimed for realism, without any sport of fantasy available, then it looses all possibilities of such a transfer to happen and for me the FM simply dies. It is simply a one example of many.

As for LLM I disagree with you in part. It is about that small club into successful club and winning every cup there is available. But I do agree that being promoted year after year is unrealistic and also I agree with the improvement of squad building and transfers and finances and all of that, but I feel the game cannot strive only to be just for realism. It needs to have a sense of fantasy in it. Fantasy of being able to do the impossible with some level of challenge, for sure. Which is Why I always defend a balance between realism and fun/fantasy.

The game should strive for realism without alienating the fanbase. FM should keep the possibilities of the impossible possible.

You're probably playing the wrong game if a lot of that is what you're looking for. FM is always going to sit on the more realistic side of the balance.

[Dagenham_Dave]

I agree with Zambian something has been very wrong with this game for a while, its seems the most of the effort is pumped into things that arent broken (and now are broken) the incessant press confrences, seasoned veteran players who have high intelligence, and posititioning ratings playing like they just got out of the youth academy. I pre-ordered FM2015 and i have barely put any time into it, prefering to put my time into my old save on FM2014. The problems i have is mostly injuries, i dont run a rigourus training setup but yet everytime i am doing well, i will be blighted by injuries in one area of the pitch (at the moment i have 8 central midfielders on the physios bench, Damn 8!) my season will stall and i end up 2nd or 3rd. I also had 5 players brought off due to injury in a single game 5! An absolute joke. The game seems purposefully made for you to try and win the league only for injuries to blight your season to all your players and you fail, The thing is they have done this in such a way so you fail but such a small margain that you think with a couple of signings i could win next season only for you to fail again because all your strikers forget how to score mid season. Frankly the last game that seemed fair to me was FM2012, you got injuries but not so many you couldnt function, players played according to the stats not playing to luck or some kind of witchcraft, you didnt hit the crossbar 9000 times a game, you wingers cross instead of taking ridiculous shots and stupid angles! if they go in you think "wow that was a great goal!" but the thing is they attepmt it 100 times a season and score one time!

So what you're basically saying here is the game is too hard for you now, and you're not willing to put the time in to learn it.

Why on earth would the game purposefully try to prevent you winning the league? Let's put aside for a minute the fact that the game's engine neither knows nor cares if the input is human or AI, and just sit and think about it from a business point of view. Why would any company deliberately make it impossible for you to win? It makes no sense on any level whatsoever.

Injuries are fine in this game. If you've got loads at the moment, it could just be bad luck. If you're continually getting loads, the only thing to blame is you.

FM12 was probably the last really quite 'basic' game in the series. By that I mean it was perhaps the last version that you could pick up and play and have success without really thinking about it. But for the game to move forward, it has to evolve into something more realistic. Which it has done over the last three versions. Yes, there's issues which cloud that level of realism, but when I go back to playing FM12 now, it's almost a different game altogether. The last two games in particular have been night and day compared to what's gone before. But it's up to the player to adapt to that. If you don't put the time in, you'll most likely fail. In that case, perhaps it's best to just move on from the series. There's no shame in that. There have been plenty of games over the years that have just been beyond my level of skill. I don't moan about them though. I go and play something else.

[fabioke]

You're probably playing the wrong game if a lot of that is what you're looking for. FM is always going to sit on the more realistic side of the balance.

That's how it's supposed to be!

There is a reason that FM succeeded. All competitors that have gone the easy and casual approach route are broke for a reason.

If you can't lose it won't be fun anymore and SI will lose all their credibility with researchers and people in the field!

[forameuss]

That's how it's supposed to be!

There is a reason that FM succeeded. All competitors that have gone the easy and casual approach route are broke for a reason.

If you can't lose it won't be fun anymore and SI will lose all their credibility with researchers and people in the field!

But some people will never get that, as it isn't their view. Perfectly understandable - if you don't enjoy the game, you'll want to suggest things that will improve it in your view. But you're absolutely right, they're doing things exactly the right way, and if they do want to go down a more arcadey route, they'll go into FMC, and keep the full fat FM exactly as it is now.

[grade]

You're probably playing the wrong game if a lot of that is what you're looking for. FM is always going to sit on the more realistic side of the balance.

First of all, let me get something clear, not you or anybody will say if this game is wrong or not for me. My opinion is not your opinion or anyone else here on the forum. We all have different opinion of what is the ideal FM looks like.

Now I'm not here debating they need to change this for me to buy a game or whatnot, because at the end of the day I will always buy this game one form or another. I will not buy the game when I grow the game, but that is quite unlikely since I'm pretty much a kid at heart.

So can we please stop this phrases of what this game is wrong to someone, most likely you don't know. We are here all to help the people at SI to make a far better game then currently is. You defend more realistic side of the balance. I get that and respect that. I defend that the balance should be in the middle inclined about 1 degree to the fun part.

Forameuss had very good point, which I could easily had approached, so let me say this. FM the full fat game could be inclined for Realistic side of the balance, while FMC should be inclined on fun side of the balance. Do you agree?

[themadsheep2001]

First of all, let me get something clear, not you or anybody will say if this game is wrong or not for me. My opinion is not your opinion or anyone else here on the forum. We all have different opinion of what is the ideal FM looks like.

Now I'm not here debating they need to change this for me to buy a game or whatnot, because at the end of the day I will always buy this game one form or another. I will not buy the game when I grow the game, but that is quite unlikely since I'm pretty much a kid at heart.

So can we please stop this phrases of what this game is wrong to someone, most likely you don't know. We are here all to help the people at SI to make a far better game then currently is. You defend more realistic side of the balance. I get that and respect that. I defend that the balance should be in the middle inclined about 1 degree to the fun part.

Forameuss had very good point, which I could easily had approached, so let me say this. FM the full fat game could be inclined for Realistic side of the balance, while FMC should be inclined on fun side of the balance. Do you agree?

SI have a version of FM that they want. You want that to change and they don't. Thats the point I'm making. It's nothing to do with defending anything. Thats the ideal they aim for. That IS their target, to sit on the more realistic side of the fence.

[forameuss]

First of all, let me get something clear, not you or anybody will say if this game is wrong or not for me. My opinion is not your opinion or anyone else here on the forum. We all have different opinion of what is the ideal FM looks like.

He was right in what he said. If you want those things, then maybe there's a game that's more suited. What's so wrong with that? Especially given they're unlikely to make the game that you seem to want.

Forameuss had very good point, which I could easily had approached, so let me say this. FM the full fat game could be inclined for Realistic side of the balance, while FMC should be inclined on fun side of the balance. Do you agree?

Hold on, I didn't say that. I said that IF they went down that route, FMC would be the place, or something similar. I don't really support them doing so, and don't think they ever will. There's your difference.

[Kriss]

Forameuss had very good point, which I could easily had approached, so let me say this. FM the full fat game could be inclined for Realistic side of the balance, while FMC should be inclined on fun side of the balance. Do you agree?

Certainly not, FMC should be just as realistic as possible, I want it to be a quicker game to play is all.

[fabioke]

First of all, let me get something clear, not you or anybody will say if this game is wrong or not for me. My opinion is not your opinion or anyone else here on the forum. We all have different opinion of what is the ideal FM looks like.

Now I'm not here debating they need to change this for me to buy a game or whatnot, because at the end of the day I will always buy this game one form or another. I will not buy the game when I grow the game, but that is quite unlikely since I'm pretty much a kid at heart.

So can we please stop this phrases of what this game is wrong to someone, most likely you don't know. We are here all to help the people at SI to make a far better game then currently is. You defend more realistic side of the balance. I get that and respect that. I defend that the balance should be in the middle inclined about 1 degree to the fun part.

Forameuss had very good point, which I could easily had approached, so let me say this. FM the full fat game could be inclined for Realistic side of the balance, while FMC should be inclined on fun side of the balance. Do you agree?

Isn't the IGE an ideal option? You can make the game easier in many ways. More money, star players big stadium, better facilities...

[themadsheep2001]

Certainly not, FMC should be just as realistic as possible, I want it to be a quicker game to play is all.

Indeed, which is why FMC has the exact same match engine.

[grade]

LLM isn't and should never be about taking your small club to world domination, you should be happy with realistic improvement.

But balance is key here, yes it should be possible to take a small club into the top tier and beyond into continental competition but it should take time, lots of it. Promotions year after year should be hard to achieve and they are in recent FMs without bringing outside knowledge into the save. Continued improvements to FM in areas like AI squad building, finances, transfer market and player interaction should make it harder still which is what FM should be striving for.

That might not suit everyone but SI/FM have never pretended to be something that its not, the aim has always been to produce a realistic football simulation.

SI have a version of FM that they want. You want that to change and they don't. Thats the point I'm making. It's nothing to do with defending anything. Thats the ideal they aim for. That IS their target, to sit on the more realistic side of the fence.

He was right in what he said. If you want those things, then maybe there's a game that's more suited. What's so wrong with that? Especially given they're unlikely to make the game that you seem to want.

Hold on, I didn't say that. I said that IF they went down that route, FMC would be the place, or something similar. I don't really support them doing so, and don't think they ever will. There's your difference.

Certainly not, FMC should be just as realistic as possible, I want it to be a quicker game to play is all.

Then I have question for all of you.

Where do we draw the line for how much realistic that FM should be?

[forameuss]

Then I have question for all of you.

Where do we draw the line for how much realistic that FM should be?

Wherever SI want/feel the need to draw it.

[Cougar2010]

Then I have question for all of you.

Where do we draw the line for how much realistic that FM should be?

As forameuss has said its wherever SI want to draw it but personally I would say approx where it is now which hasn't changed much in the last few years. There are still a few things need tweaking/can be improved (eg AI squad building, finances) which would make some things harder but in general it wouldn't alter the line very much.

[Dukkai]

I agree with Zambian something has been very wrong with this game for a while, its seems the most of the effort is pumped into things that arent broken (and now are broken) the incessant press confrences, seasoned veteran players who have high intelligence, and posititioning ratings playing like they just got out of the youth academy. I pre-ordered FM2015 and i have barely put any time into it, prefering to put my time into my old save on FM2014. The problems i have is mostly injuries, i dont run a rigourus training setup but yet everytime i am doing well, i will be blighted by injuries in one area of the pitch (at the moment i have 8 central midfielders on the physios bench, Damn 8!) my season will stall and i end up 2nd or 3rd. I also had 5 players brought off due to injury in a single game 5! An absolute joke. The game seems purposefully made for you to try and win the league only for injuries to blight your season to all your players and you fail, The thing is they have done this in such a way so you fail but such a small margain that you think with a couple of signings i could win next season only for you to fail again because all your strikers forget how to score mid season. Frankly the last game that seemed fair to me was FM2012, you got injuries but not so many you couldnt function, players played according to the stats not playing to luck or some kind of witchcraft, you didnt hit the crossbar 9000 times a game, you wingers cross instead of taking ridiculous shots and stupid angles! if they go in you think "wow that was a great goal!" but the thing is they attepmt it 100 times a season and score one time!

while I do not agree with the things said in the quoted post, the highlighted part stands true. Wingers and players wide in general do tend to shoot from rather ridiculous angles from time to time instead of crossing..

[QWERTYOP]

For me, the game has gone backwards the last couple of years. I think one of the biggest problems is the yearly release (which I know will never change because money baby). They seem to feel the need to make a certain amount of changes to justify the yearly release, and in the last couple of years (particularly this year IMO) that's lead to unnecessary changes for the sake of change. Fixing stuff that ain't broke. This years game feels particularly "fiddly". Ease of use has gone backwards in a number of areas. That just flat out should not happen. Smalls things like the formation screen (absolutely no need for change) and the now overly complicated way of selecting unfit first teamers to be made available for reserve games until fit (used to be one click and done. Why change?!?!). It's disheartening but there seems to be no prospect of this not continuing to happen. I just want to see an end to changes for the sake of changes.

[forameuss]

For me, the game has gone backwards the last couple of years. I think one of the biggest problems is the yearly release (which I know will never change because money and just plain common sense).

FTFY.

They seem to feel the need to make a certain amount of changes to justify the yearly release, and in the last couple of years (particularly this year IMO) that's lead to unnecessary changes for the sake of change. Fixing stuff that ain't broke. This years game feels particularly "fiddly". Ease of use has gone backwards in a number of areas. That just flat out should not happen. Smalls things like the formation screen (absolutely no need for change) and the now overly complicated way of selecting unfit first teamers to be made available for reserve games until fit (used to be one click and done. Why change?!?!). It's disheartening but there seems to be no prospect of this not continuing to happen. I just want to see an end to changes for the sake of changes.

Ok, I'll bite. Give us an example of a couple of changes that were done "for the sake of it", and why you believe this to be true.

You've mentioned one specific example - the selection issue - which I kind of agree with, but then FM has never been particularly good in this regard. Whenever it was, it was because the game was so simple that there wasn't enough to clutter up the interface. Considering the wealth of information that's in the game now, the design of the interface is very important, and very difficult to get right. Plus it's subjective, which makes it even harder. Personally I don't think there's that much wrong with the interface - it's not intuitive at all times, but then it's unlikely to ever be. It does its job satisfactorily.

[Äktsjon Männ]

On the subject of FM15 interface, the tactic screen change is probably the most baffling design decision by SI I can remember. There is not a single aspect about it that is in any way better than what we had before. SI are usually very stubborn about their design decisions, which they have to be, but in this instance I really hope they swallow their pride and start from scratch again.

As for the rest of the interface changes, I have always liked the sidebar but it's close to useless without the tree functionality. All it does now is separate the quick icons from other menus making it less ergonomic, albeit more clear if viewed in full size with written descriptions visible. This sort of functionality ought to be unified, not separated into two different sections and the tree menu is still the best way to achieve that.

Oh and I personally hate what they've done with the "world" menu, the one next to preferences. I used to be able to navigate to any league profile with a single click, now it takes at least 4 and confuses the hell out of me in the process.

[BiggusD]

I bought the game 8 days ago, and I must say that FM15.2 is not the worst version I have played.

The football that is played looks far worse than 14.3, but some details have greatly improved. The goalkeepers, for instance, look much better when they do what they do, and with a few exceptions I like the changes to the interface.

The game is certainly unbalanced. Going full gung-ho mindless overload attack seems to be the most sensible path to success, since on-the-ball decisionmaking in the final third is equally hopeless both for me and the AI. They keep running into each other trying to pass and shoot through opposition players and teammates alike. In the middle third, however, there is no opposition, no risk at all - the middle of the pitch is simply put a transport phase from box to box. No wonder people are complaining about too many shots and goals.

The most annoying consequence of this, is that a 3-0 lead can become 3-3 really quick because the AI decides to stop playing nice and start attacking you... which begs the question why they don't simply start with that attacking tactic instead of waiting until they're a couple of goals behind or there are 15 minutes left of the match. Of course, when they equalize, they are happy with things again and return to their usual tactic, at which point I usually grab a goal or two before the end - which is why my stats currently are 11-0-0 in the league but I win with 1 goal most of the time (including a 5-4 victory).

Yeah, I have great hopes that these imbalances will be fixed when the next patch comes out. The graphics are better than FM14 so the potential for 15 being the best in the series so far is still there. The most important thing about game balance is to make sure that various tactical approaches all have their merit in the match engine. In FM14, nearly all the teams in the BBVA used narrow tactics by 2031, and whenever a new manager was appointed I knew he would be out of a job again pretty soon if he used a 433 or something.

[Dukkai]

A while ago a friend of mine made a pretty good comparison between "old" FM and the "new" FM, at least where tactics are considered. (I challenge you to guess his profession )

He said that the tactics in old FM were similar to Windows. You could basically take a winning tactic and apply it to every team and after a few early bumps, you could just spam continue without any tweaking needed. You didn't know why the tactic worked so good, you didn't know why are those positions good and ultimately, if the tactic failed after a while, you didn't know what is wrong and how to fix it because at the end of the day, you never understood it.

The tactics in the new FM are more like Linux. They require learning and reading, they require thinking and tweaking and are generally not newbie-friendly. But, once you got your tactic to work, it would work great and with some tweaking would bring you success. After a while, if the tactic started to fail, you would have some clues about why it is failing and could compensate because you can understand how and why it works and what you can do to improve it.

I find his explanation fitting and pretty damn accurate.

[fabioke]

On the subject of FM15 interface, the tactic screen change is probably the most baffling design decision by SI I can remember. There is not a single aspect about it that is in any way better than what we had before. SI are usually very stubborn about their design decisions, which they have to be, but in this instance I really hope they swallow their pride and start from scratch again.

As for the rest of the interface changes, I have always liked the sidebar but it's close to useless without the tree functionality. All it does now is separate the quick icons from other menus making it less ergonomic, albeit more clear if viewed in full size with written descriptions visible. This sort of functionality ought to be unified, not separated into two different sections and the tree menu is still the best way to achieve that.

Oh and I personally hate what they've done with the "world" menu, the one next to preferences. I used to be able to navigate to any league profile with a single click, now it takes at least 4 and confuses the hell out of me in the process.

I love this year's edition but you're 100% spot on about the UI.

Every time I go to the tactics screen or the "world" menu I feel disappointed about these changes.

Didn't they do any A/B testing, I have yet to find the person in my environment who likes the new UI.

[markantony]

Funny how experience can be so different.

I love 15, I've enjoyed this version more than any other. I still hate the media and the player interactions need work, but on the whole the game has fewer bugs and tactics seem more intuitive than in previous years.

[Mazaveli]

Does 2D classic share the same problems as 3D? Just asking because I've never used 3D, used it once and it felt awkward, so I went back to my classic dots. Does the 2D engine get updated yearly too?

[forameuss]

Does 2D classic share the same problems as 3D? Just asking because I've never used 3D, used it once and it felt awkward, so I went back to my classic dots. Does the 2D engine get updated yearly too?

Same engine, no matter what view you use. Any "issues" that are in the ME will be in both. Any animation "issues" with 3D will only appear in 3D.

[Bittah Dreamer]

I agree with Zambian something has been very wrong with this game for a while, its seems the most of the effort is pumped into things that arent broken (and now are broken) the incessant press confrences, seasoned veteran players who have high intelligence, and posititioning ratings playing like they just got out of the youth academy. I pre-ordered FM2015 and i have barely put any time into it, prefering to put my time into my old save on FM2014. The problems i have is mostly injuries, i dont run a rigourus training setup but yet everytime i am doing well, i will be blighted by injuries in one area of the pitch (at the moment i have 8 central midfielders on the physios bench, Damn 8!) my season will stall and i end up 2nd or 3rd. I also had 5 players brought off due to injury in a single game 5! An absolute joke. The game seems purposefully made for you to try and win the league only for injuries to blight your season to all your players and you fail, The thing is they have done this in such a way so you fail but such a small margain that you think with a couple of signings i could win next season only for you to fail again because all your strikers forget how to score mid season. Frankly the last game that seemed fair to me was FM2012, you got injuries but not so many you couldnt function, players played according to the stats not playing to luck or some kind of witchcraft, you didnt hit the crossbar 9000 times a game, you wingers cross instead of taking ridiculous shots and stupid angles! if they go in you think "wow that was a great goal!" but the thing is they attepmt it 100 times a season and score one time!

I'm sure you probably hate getting the "it's your fault" responses but there is an awful lot of truth to them.

Regarding injuries, I'm playong as RB Leipzig, who start off in the German second Division (having just been promoted from the third). In my first season I suffered at least one injury a game, and had a lot of players on the physio's bench at any given time. The thing is though I had terrible physios. The first thing I did on getting promoted was to recruit the best physios I could. Now my injuries are at a very manageable level and rarely have more than two players out, and never for too long.

With regards to wingers, funnily enough I play with a winger as AMR on attack duty, and over my tree seasons whoever has played there has been either my top scorer or a close to them (I've played both Adama Traore and a retrained Timo Werner there to great effect).

Funnily enough I only stumbled upon the effectiveness of a winger on attack duty in my formation when my main striker was out with an injury for three months and re-jigged the formation to try and get the best out of his replacement - showing that tactics determined his effectiveness (prior to that Traore was easily topping my assists chart as a winger support though, showing again how effective the role can be when used correctly).

[Cougar2010]

Regarding injuries, I'm playong as RB Leipzig, who start off in the German second Division (having just been promoted from the third). In my first season I suffered at least one injury a game, and had a lot of players on the physio's bench at any given time. The thing is though I had terrible physios. The first thing I did on getting promoted was to recruit the best physios I could. Now my injuries are at a very manageable level and rarely have more than two players out, and never for too long.

Physios do absolutely nothing to prevent injuries.

[Bittah Dreamer]

I

A while ago a friend of mine made a pretty good comparison between "old" FM and the "new" FM, at least where tactics are considered. (I challenge you to guess his profession )

He said that the tactics in old FM were similar to Windows. You could basically take a winning tactic and apply it to every team and after a few early bumps, you could just spam continue without any tweaking needed. You didn't know why the tactic worked so good, you didn't know why are those positions good and ultimately, if the tactic failed after a while, you didn't know what is wrong and how to fix it because at the end of the day, you never understood it.

The tactics in the new FM are more like Linux. They require learning and reading, they require thinking and tweaking and are generally not newbie-friendly. But, once you got your tactic to work, it would work great and with some tweaking would bring you success. After a while, if the tactic started to fail, you would have some clues about why it is failing and could compensate because you can understand how and why it works and what you can do to improve it.

I find his explanation fitting and pretty damn accurate.

That's actually a very good description. I used to be more of the plug and play type, and my skill as a manager has always been about team building over tactical prowess. In recent years I've been forced by the game to get to grips with the tactical side mode and more though.

I still tend to stick to the same formation, and sometimes I stumble into solutions, but I have developed a decent understanding of my system and how I want to set up, and how I need to balance the various roles in my team and how to make the best use of space for both attacking and defending. At least now when things go right or wrong for me, I can see how and why things have happened the way they have.

It certainly requires a lot more work when first picking up the game or setting up a tactic, and at times that can be frustrating. But when you finally develop a system which works it's hugely rewarding.

[Bittah Dreamer]

Physios do absolutely nothing to prevent injuries.

Really? I would have thought they would - I would imagine they do in real life.

There has certainly been a marked improvement in the rate of injuries in my team since the first season, even in players who have been with me since my first game, so either the physios or my new 5 star fitness coaches are doing something.

[Cougar2010]

Really? I would have thought they would - I would imagine they do in real life.

There has certainly been a marked improvement in the rate of injuries in my team since the first season, even in players who have been with me since my first game, so either the physios or my new 5 star fitness coaches are doing something.

There could be a few reasons but physios aren't one of them.

They simply report on injuries with better physios giving better/more advice as to time out.

[Chris C]

I'm quite enjoying it.

[Dagenham_Dave]

There could be a few reasons but physios aren't one of them.

They simply report on injuries with better physios giving better/more advice as to time out.

I'm dubious about this to be honest. I've taken my team from the bottom to the top league, and have had awful and great physios along the way. Their reports on how long a player will be out for hasn't varied at all. If I'm told a player will be out 3-4 weeks, he's out 3-4 weeks, regardless of who my physio is. To me, better physios will treat injuries better meaning that certain injuries will heal quicker. That's something I have noticed from physio to physio.

If their sole role in the game is giving you info how long a player is out for, they'd be as well not having them in the game at all and for the game itself just to tell you.