Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

[Royal Flash]

Well I can only voice my opinion on this one - we played a very large number of games and honestly didn't come across the amount of crazy scorelines as we've seen since the release.

I've just uploaded an example and flagged it in the bugs forum: My Ipswich side just beat Barca 7-4 in the Champions League to scrape through 8-7 on agg'! (3-1 down pre new patch from the first leg).

[Cas46]

Todays latest craziness:

Freekick cross 35 yards out gets played straight into the goal, why? Because the keeper is standing on the edge of the box in the middle of the attackers/defenders.

[Chalky1989]

3 games in 5 years, 3 games. How many games are played in 5 years really? thats allot. And so few times it happens. Out of the box, i actually saw that game against Arsenal.

You did admitt it? Im sorry then. My mistake for not reading that part.

Thank you for this interesting proof display! How Tottenham have manage a 9-1 victory, i cant believe my eyes.

Doesn't matter how many games there has been....That's why it's called a Freak Result.

[coppelledstreets]

Just played 35 games of an epl season.

Arsenal have scored 125 goals, man city 97, man u 101 and chelsea 102. Crazy stuff.

Arsenal beat man city 8-0 the other week.

They could not had tested this latest update.

[ChelseaFan]

Ruined my save. Tactics don't matter anymore. 90% of goals come from drill crosses. I'm winning games by 4 or 5 goals every game. It's just boring now. Desperate to get to the end of the season now so I can start next season when a patch comes out to resolve this dribbling bug.

[Sussex Hammer]

Ackter : PKM's uploaded as requested re too many "chipped penalties". Named - "Interesting passage of play with two penalties with poor chipped penalty, Swansea v West Ham" and "Too many chipped penalties in shootout, West Ham v Huddersfield".

Can I just say to people just keep an eye on their game and see if things improve. I was highly critical of the ME (just ask Ackter!!!) upon starting a new game with all the dribbling madness and poor closing down, along with too many opposition set pieces being scored. I adjusted my tactics slightly and adjusted set pieces to counter act where they were being scored from and I saw an incredible transformation practically overnight and by January game time things really have calmed down and I must say right now I am experiencing some of the most realistic ME matches ever in FM. The change is most bizarre. I love the diving header clearances defenders make and have seen one or two literally throw themselves in front of shots which is most unlike defenders in FM!! I am scoring a share of headers but not overloaded and whilst my players have a share of long shots (even with all on rare) it's nice to see players pouncing on rebounds after the keeper parries a long shot or getting corners from them. I still see the odd mad dribble from the likes of Bale and Ramires of Chelsea which is a bizarre one because Ramires isn't a dribbler according to his stats but not as much as at the start of the game. However I AM NOT saying it's down to your tactics. It's just possible that as game time goes on the patch may settle in. There ARE too many match injuries I think though and it is too much of a risk leaving a player on with a knock because it always ends up being a long term injury if you leave them on so match injuries should be tweaked but I have seen a reduction in training ground injuries.

Using a 4-4-2 I noted that I did concede an awful lot of possession and the opposition had a lot of shots. That is a disappointment I think because a 4-4-2 is very difficult to get right because no matter which two you have in the middle of the park a 3 will always dominate a 2 so again a tweak on a midfield threes dominance would be good although I play a three there now so probably not!!!

High scoring games and Shots and shots on target : Not really noticed it much myself now and the shots ratio has been a lot better and not too high in most cases. Previous patch you were lucky if you got 5 shots in a game. My results, followed by shots and shots on target have been : 0-3 (7-10/1-4), 2-1 (11-5/4-1), 3-0 (21-5/6-1), 0-0 (7-7/3-1), 2-1 (12-7/7-1), 2-3 (6-15/4-9), 0-0 (5-12/1-2), 2-1 (13-6/8-3), 1-1 (12-7/4-5), 1-2 (7-16/3-5), 1-3 (8-16/3-6), 2-2 (6-20/3-7), 1-0 (9-12/2-4), 1-0 (10-10/6-2), 4-1 (12-6/7-4), 1-0 (11-8/7-3), 3-1 (6-5/4-4), 0-0 (5-10/3-4), 1-0 (10-8/5-2). So for me at least it seems ok.

The AI results show some 5-0's and plenty of times 4 have been scored but Chelsea have the highest scoring results with a 5-2 against Man United, 11-1 against Southampton and a 7-3 against Ipswich. Man United have had two 5-0's and Arsenals highest score was a 6-1 against Aston Villa.

[aiston]

Just a select few screen shots of the mental scorelines in my game this season with the patch(save game is on ftp).

Not included all of Man United's games as there is 10-15 5/6-0 wins.

[bartdude]

Much more realistic all round ! Greater variation in play,passes,crosses,better tackles,runs and positioning. Well done SI ! Just a couple of niggly observations I'd like to make that have been there from day one,both with FM2012 and FM2013 with the 3D match engine and that's the fact that when corners are taken the ball is always placed outside of the D. Also quite often the whole of the ball has clearly crossed the line and goes out of play but a throw is never given. I've also had incidents where an outswinging corner has clearly gone out of play and has swung back into play but it is not flagged and any resulting goal is given !

[thebigfish08]

Have overcome the long shot issue thanks to advice from Ackter - thank you - setting team tactic to control rather than attack calms all the centre mids down and stops silly long shots. might not work for all, but works for my tactic and healthy amount of goals from my attack playmaker in a 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 if you consider I'm using wingers as attacking forwards. Crowding remains an issue and seeing Carzola score a free kick in almost every game but long shots be addressed without a hotfix (note in my experience telling players individually to rarely shoot from distance didn't work without also setting team to control).

[El Casa De Munson]

I think my post got removed, I'll try a different question. Is the game worth getting yet or is the ME still broken?

[Spart]

I think my post got removed, I'll try a different question. Is the game worth getting yet or is the ME still broken?

Try the free demo on Steam and make your own mind up - there as many opinions on the ME as there are players.

[El Casa De Munson]

Does the demo have the latest ME? Figured it would be out of date.

[fmFutbolManager]

Official word is yes of course we're looking into it, but as with everything needs testing as best as we can before we can even think about releasing anything. Bear in mind now it's Christmas as well any work which is being down now is being done in our own time.

In regards to the toning, simply answer (from a non-coder here!) is it's a difficult process. It's not a case of turning a dial down, it's really an awfully difficult balancing act. Would also be absolutely impossible to roll back to a previous patch given the amount of work which has occurred outside of the match engine.

Hi Neil. Thanks for taking the time to come here and talk with us. Are you saying that the ME is intrinsic to the rest of the game? I thought the TC and the ME were combined, naturally due to the affects one has on the other, but the rest of the game is separate, e.g., transfers have nothing to do with the ME. I guess if it isn't possible to just roll back the ME, then it's not in your interests to roll back all of the code to the previous production version and release that again on Steam until you come up with a balance?

My second point being, do you think SI should adopt a longer BETA testing phase for the game, and with each release of ME have a BETA trial before you release to the public? There seems to be a lot of obvious issues that are missed. And like you say sometimes it might just be because of the players or team you are, and you cannot test the game with every team. However, having a larger BETA testing team would be beneficial to you, surely? I recon you could pick up a lot of people here willing to help you test it. I know you had a two week BETA for this release, but in my opinion that just wasn't long enough, and anything that was spotted wouldn't have been picked up quick enough for the full release anyway.

[advg13]

Really frustrating thing for me is I setup steam to 'not update the game automatically' and it still downloaded the new update. I was really happy with the last patch but this new version is unplayable. Hopefully SI can sort it out with a new patch asap after which my steam will be getting run in offline mode for ever more.

[lunarsea]

My second point being, do you think SI should adopt a longer BETA testing phase for the game, and with each release of ME have a BETA trial before you release to the public? There seems to be a lot of obvious issues that are missed. And like you say sometimes it might just be because of the players or team you are, and you cannot test the game with every team. However, having a larger BETA testing team would be beneficial to you, surely? I recon you could pick up a lot of people here willing to help you test it. I know you had a two week BETA for this release, but in my opinion that just wasn't long enough, and anything that was spotted wouldn't have been picked up quick enough for the full release anyway.

I think this would be a great idea & I'm sure there would a lot of willing participants on the forum who would love to help with the BETA test.

Continuing on this topic, I was just wondering how exactly the game is tested by the SI staff? Do you just play through matches & note any specific bugs/issues you observe or do you also run seasons on auto-pilot "Go on Holiday" mode and then look at overall statistics?

The reason I ask is that quite a number of people on this thread have already left the game to run automatically for a season & then have posted evidence which definitely highlights some of the proposed bugs. Do the game-testers not let the game run automatically for a season, look at the in-game stats & then compare them to statistical averages in real-life Premier League, La Liga, etc which are readily available? I think this, in combination with actually playing matches would clearly point out the more obvious problems that need resolving: If you were seeing constant 7-2 scorelines with the corresponding high CCCs, players completing an average 15+ dribbles per match, high tackles per match, and any other indicators of potential problems with massively above average figures, they would be immediately highlighted if they were somehow not spotted in the actual gameplay?

[RobertPage]

The headers are driving me nuts. My team works the ball well, gets my full back to the by-line who then puts in a good cross for one of my players to just nod the ball in from 6 yards. Doesn't even have to jump, he missed. I have not scored a single header since the update and am missing loads of sitters and now it's just annoying me even more because i'm destroying teams with possession and my team just shoots long,straight at the keeper or heads over/wide. I'm the goals i score are harder to score than the ones i miss and i've had enough of everytime the computer gets the ball just watching them run through my defence with ease

[oocytes]

Please S.i for the love of God please fix this patch before Christmas day.With all the turmoil going on here in USA i need a piece of relaxation and with this patch i don't think it is helping at all.Please for crying out loud fix this before Christmas morning. I will even pay extra 30bucks just to have the old patch back instead of this new one is a killer.Please fix it or roll back the old patch.Thank and happy holidays.

[RobertPage]

LOL! just scored a header, disallowed obviously.

[oocytes]

Hey Neil..Quick question buddy.Is it possible to roll back the older patch so that we all could enjoy this game during this short Christmas holidays.Honestly bud this game at the moment is unplayable and i don't think i have time for more experiment from you guys testing and what not just please talk to your people for a possible roll back.Merry Christmas

[Funoyr]

Yep, same question as posted above.

[haunted1234]

sad, gonna sit trough christmas with what we got i guess

[BiggusD]

Hi Neil. Thanks for taking the time to come here and talk with us. Are you saying that the ME is intrinsic to the rest of the game? I thought the TC and the ME were combined, naturally due to the affects one has on the other, but the rest of the game is separate, e.g., transfers have nothing to do with the ME. I guess if it isn't possible to just roll back the ME, then it's not in your interests to roll back all of the code to the previous production version and release that again on Steam until you come up with a balance?

My second point being, do you think SI should adopt a longer BETA testing phase for the game, and with each release of ME have a BETA trial before you release to the public? There seems to be a lot of obvious issues that are missed. And like you say sometimes it might just be because of the players or team you are, and you cannot test the game with every team. However, having a larger BETA testing team would be beneficial to you, surely? I recon you could pick up a lot of people here willing to help you test it. I know you had a two week BETA for this release, but in my opinion that just wasn't long enough, and anything that was spotted wouldn't have been picked up quick enough for the full release anyway.

I suppose that they got as far with FM13 as they could before the release of the Beta.

I also suppose that there won't be any changes before maybe mid-january because a tune-down of dribbling and indirect set-piece accuracy will have severe consequences for chance creation in the ME. TBH I don't see much dribbling now because I have made sure that I stop it and don't abuse it myself, but then again I use classic and know what I do when tweaking. The TC+shout users aren't necessarily that lucky - since they don't get to do a singular slider change at a time to find balance like I do. I also see few extreme results in my save, season three with Lazio.

On the other hand, there is much less fluency for me now than in 13.1.3 - the football I play and AI plays against me is much less enjoyable and varied. The lack of team play overall is the main reason for this, and it is difficult for me to figure out why this is so, although I have observed that;

1. Closing Down is now overriding the marking and positioning instructions/skills to a much higher degree for defenders, making them leave their position in order to close down an opponent higher up the pitch.

2. The striker(s) are now unmarked and completely free on goal, but the player with the ball is consistently refraining from using this great opportunity to play an easy through-ball for a one-on-one with the keeper.

3. If he does hit that pass, it is a pass to feet, and by the time even a fast striker gets to accelerate on goal he is thus caught up to.

4. If any player runs with the ball at full pace, the collision detection feature prevents defenders from making a tackle even though they can shuffle sideways just as fast or faster than said dribbling player (in other words if he ran properly he could just get in front of that player and he would have to stop or change direction). This goes on until the dribbler enters the last 20-30 meters of the pitch, at which point he shifts pace and the defender(s) don't, thus letting them get a free cross into the box. This also happens inside the area sometimes, and the defenders let them shoot - both instances occur regularly and are examples of the defenders doing the exact opposite of what their main responsibility is in the game - not allowing crosses or shots to happen in the first place; a good defender rarely have to resort to a tackle and this is precisely what is so great with the new collision detection feature... but it is not used properly yet. Outside the area, a striker with the ball facing away from the goal and a defender or two or three wrestling him is allowed to turn around and shoot or pass - the only thing he should -not- be allowed to do (it's the whole point of having defenders pressing him).

... Thus you have a combination of poor offense and defense but still many goals and shots each match; so no wonder the ME is getting shot down. It has many good things going for it, but there are still much work to do before it has the fluency of FM12.3. I have no doubts that it will be better than FM11/12 by 13.3 though, as the potential is there.

I have a general comment about the direction of the ME, though: on one hand we have the need for tactical changes (like shouts) to make a visible impact on the game, but on the other hand we have the fragility of tactics. If the focus is too much on the former, the latter will increase, and if SI seeks to decrease the latter, the former will also be decreased. It is very important to get that balance right, because the customer base consists both of people who like to adjust their tactics every game and would thus expect their players to need a lot of help to perform well, and those who believe that the players should be able to cope with most variations and that any tactical change during a match would just be fine-tuning (I'm in this camp). Both "types" are paying customers and both should be happy.

I think 13.2 has gone too much in the former direction; the tactics have become too fragile and inconsistent.

[Funoyr]

That's a shame, I'm really disappointed. I know it's very hard for them to change and update the game but still, at the end of the day, the ones suffering the most are just us, the FM community, wwhose main preoccupation during the holidays is to play our favorite game. Things need to change. And fast.

[Kriss]

Hey Neil..Quick question buddy.Is it possible to roll back the older patch so that we all could enjoy this game during this short Christmas holidays.Honestly bud this game at the moment is unplayable and i don't think i have time for more experiment from you guys testing and what not just please talk to your people for a possible roll back.Merry Christmas

No it's not possible.

[oocytes]

No it's not possible.

Ok got that.So what am i supposed to do?

[RvN#17]

Man City is ridiculously overpowerd, they are like the best team in the game.

I know this isn't constructive respond but I just had to say it.

[Kriss]

Ok got that.So what am i supposed to do?

Probably read this for starters http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/326330-The-current-state-of-the-forums-–-Feedback-Constructive-Criticism-and-Forum-Rules.

Then do what the rest of us are doing, either play the game or give it a rest, personally I'm playing FMC atm which allows me to ignore the most irritating faults but I don't subscribe to the OMGZ it's unplayable line atall tbh.

[Kriss]

Man City is ridiculously overpowerd, they are like the best team in the game.

I know this isn't constructive respond but I just had to say it.

They will be due to the over powered dribbling problem mostly.

[Sussex Spur]

Had a wierd one the other day - the ball hit the post & instead of bouncing out again it just sat there. Then the AI player came in & tapped it in ! grrrr !!!

[Ackter]

They will be due to the over powered dribbling problem mostly.

Well, that and they're pretty much the best team in the game.

Player for player it's only really Barcelona that are better.

[Ackter]

Had a wierd one the other day - the ball hit the post & instead of bouncing out again it just sat there. Then the AI player came in & tapped it in ! grrrr !!!

If you have a PKM of that, please post it in the bugs forum

[RobertPage]

No surprise that all the goal of the months are now about players dribbling and taken on 3 or 4 players

[dking]

Is it just me that hit's the post/bar all the time? 12 times in 9 games to be exact (post/bar in all games bar one I think). It's getting a bit boring now.

[Kriss]

No surprise that all the goal of the months are now about players dribbling and taken on 3 or 4 players

Yeh, hardly surprising, though that is only in the top divisions, where I play nobody can dribble so it's not an issue

[Ackter]

No surprise that all the goal of the months are now about players dribbling and taken on 3 or 4 players

Some of them are misleading (note, emphasis on some). For example, the ones you see where it reads something like "player dribbles from their own half" is usually the opposition being caught on the counter attack and the "beating 3 men" is actually one turn into space and a free run on goal.

Just for clarification, I'm not deflecting here, most of the dribbling ones are​ bugs imo. Just not all of them are.

[Ackter]

Is it just me that hit's the post/bar all the time? 12 times in 9 games to be exact (post/bar in all games bar one I think). It's getting a bit boring now.

I've seen a few people mentioning it. If you could post in the bugs forum it'd be appreciated.

[gus1987]

For me this patch has undone everything the last patch fixed. My team had the best defensive record last season and currently in this season (March). Since the update, ive played 4 games, conceded 3 goals in all 4 games and had 6 major injuries. Previously in the season I have had 3 major injuries total, two to the same player. Now I have all 4 of my CBs out for at least a month, 2 of them out for the rest of the season.

The defending is as comical as it was before the previous patch, the team will not play through balls at all and the wingers and fullbacks both cut inside non-stop and either run past every player and score, or get to the 18 yard line and shoot miles wide. Whenever one of my players makes a tackle it alls perfectly to an opposition player like it was an amazing pass.

The last patch was almost perfect, probably the most fun and satisfying experience ive had on FM since 2008. Now its been ruined, this is a massive step backwards.

[xambo]

I managed to fix it.

In the preferences I changed the 3D frame rate from 'automatic' to '60' and it has cleared it up.

Maybe help you guys in testing or indeed anyone else that has the problem.

I have the same issue, just freezes for a second before a goal, just barely noticed though.

I am trying your fix, but cant find it exactly.

I went to preferences but cant find the automatic nor the 60 !

[DuncanBarr]

Well defending is better, fewer own goals, passing is better and more fluid.

But still theres too much unrealistic stuff going on that stops you being immersed in the match experience- far too many rubbish long shots and long shots in general, head tennis, throwins going directly to opposing players, too many amazing dribbles.

Wont say its got worse, but really for the first time ever Im thinking of going back to the previous version and thats a shame as my Bishops Stortford side has some great kids that Ive brought through but the game is really too flawed.

A sad way to mark 20 years of FM in that it probably wont be till Feb that its anywhere near as good as FM12.

[Ackter]

In the few months since FM13 was released, I've spent something like 5 or 6 times the amount of time I spent playing FM12 since it was released.

This is a much better game with a few persistent niggles.

[DuncanBarr]

For me now there seems no logic any more to the game

It seems SI decided they wanted a new ME and threw it at the game partly finished and left us to test it and bug report so they can work on it ready for next years release .

The whole ME seems gimmicky and it soon becomes obvious that if you take the lead then the AI will suddenly decide that the opposition will become twice as good and promptly waltz down the field and score . A lot of the time changing tactics has no effect whatsoever and its way too random now on which teams will play like the top teams and which play like relegation teams .

The ME spelt the end for CM a few years ago and this seems like its going in a very similar direction . Fifa took over the crown from Pro Evo on the console and i can see it doing the same with soccer management unless SI step up their game

Agree, especially as even the much lauded new animations are terrible, with players seeming to skate on ice at times and move awkwardly. It really feels shoddy in this day and age.

[ReggaeBwoy]

LMAO just seen someone post this in the Arsenal thread defo not playing this game until there is a hotfix sadly

[Sampa]

In the few months since FM13 was released, I've spent something like 5 or 6 times the amount of time I spent playing FM12 since it was released.

This is a much better game with a few persistent niggles.

No it's not.

[Ackter]

No it's not.

It quite clearly is. Luckily some people realise that sometimes progress can cause difficulties and are willing to roll with it.

[DuncanBarr]

In the few months since FM13 was released, I've spent something like 5 or 6 times the amount of time I spent playing FM12 since it was released.

This is a much better game with a few persistent niggles.

With respect you totally miss why people are unhappy, the ME is the key and the persistent niggles make taking the ME seriously as a simulation of a real game impossible.

Yes, you can disregard the stupid things going on as it doesnt make the game unplayable, and Ive certainly appreciated the challenge in getting, so far, only to the BS Premier but as a player its not fun, watching the ME is not enjoyable as anybody who watches and enjoyes football cannot surely ignore such obvious flaws? Of course FM12 wasnt perfect but SI have taken a step back this year, Im sure it makes sense to them that theres some pain as a new ME is introduced but I think sometimes they forget that people pay to PLAY the game and not TEST it.

[Dicko99]

It quite clearly is. Luckily some people realise that sometimes progress can cause difficulties and are willing to roll with it.

yep, been rolling with it for 3 patches now

[DuncanBarr]

It quite clearly is. Luckily some people realise that sometimes progress can cause difficulties and are willing to roll with it.

And why should consumers roll with it? Why PAY to TEST a game that had clear flaws on release date and even after the 2nd patch.

Not quite sure how anyone can try and defend the quality of this release.

[Ackter]

Do people really think that bugs and patching are solely an SI thing or something?

Using Borderlands 2 as an example:

On release the game contained bugs that could wipe your save files, reset your progress, partially reset your progress, crashes and several usual gameplay issues and exploits.

When the first DLC was released they patched some of them. However, it could still wipe saves, reset your progress etc while also introducing a crash bug to one of the main bosses (which made it impossible to complete for over 50% of users) and a broken final boss.

When the second DLC was released, none of these issues were patched.

It's taken until about a week ago for the most recent patch which, while not wiping out the save/progress problems, partially protected you against them so if it did happen you could recover some, if not all, of your data. The crash bug for the main boss has finally been fixed. The broken final boss from the first DLC is still broken. Most of that patch was dedicated to tuning weapons performance rather than actually addressing proper gameplay issues.

Or shall we talk Skyrim? A game that's been out, what, a year? It's still full of crashes, memory issues, bugs everywhere and is so shoddy that the PS3 version can't even get the DLC. Bethesda have a much bigger team than SI and the game was in development for many years, but it turned out to be the most bugged game released from a major company.

This is the reality of games (and most software). Whether you agree with it or not, your only choices are roll with it or not play any games at all.

[skylooden]

I've pointed out it's not impossible to see a game with 10 or more goals in it. It just happens that on this occasion in game, they were mine. Also, no team in the world has ever had as good a team as I've got(which is perhaps a fault in the game, it's too easy after 6-7 years to put together a top class team that overpowers the opposition because the AI can simply never team build as well as the human player, meaning human teams become much stronger, and AI teams become much weaker). So no, it was not stupid and you're being offensive to say so.

You're making the mistake of comparing my team to a real life team, when it's a team in a game. And my team is better than Barcelona, while the teams I get to play have weakened. So in game terms, it's easy to see how if things just click, my team could win by 10 goals.

No, I don't think my team should win 38 games in the league, that would be boring, and if I wanted to do that I could just load up every game I lost again> please don't assume my thought processes, you can barely cope with your own. And I'm being realistic, as I have already pointed out, I acknowledged that it was not right that I win so massively twice in two games. 1 freak result can happen however.

Just because Spain don't win 10 nil has more to do with the style they play, they pass it around, so there is more build up. My team is direct with it's running and passing, so even if you take into account the extra chances this ME creates, my team will still have a lot of chances, which is a lot more chances to score.

Did you play CM 01/02 back in the days? The AI there actually did have good teams 6-7 years in the future. AI where stalking good talented players and players which where fully evolved. Thats the down side with FM. :/

[skylooden]

Just played 35 games of an epl season.

Arsenal have scored 125 goals, man city 97, man u 101 and chelsea 102. Crazy stuff.

Arsenal beat man city 8-0 the other week.

They could not had tested this latest update.

Hehe this is becoming like FIFA, just in a text based game. So unreal. :/