Match Engine Update 13.2 - ME feedback here please.

[Ackter]

I think I'd have to disagree with you on this point. A players desirability to run with the ball is so overpowering to them that it seems that is all they want to do. I have read in here somewhere that throughballs have been toned down, which I don't think is the case, for me it's more the fact that all players want to do is run with the ball, this therefore causes problems when presented with clear throughball opportunities that are not taken.

I have a number of players in my team that are A) very good at running with the ball and B) have PPM's that encourage this. The only time these guys will make a pass is when there is NO OTHER OPTION. If they have been closed down into the corner or are being chased back towards their goal with little space to dribble, they will make a pass. However if they are dribbling towards goal and there is a small gap, they will ignore very clear through ball options in order to dribble themselves.

This is NOT down to my tactical failures, as I know how to play this game and am fairly adept at putting tactics together. As it stands now, my Inside Forwards have their RWB turned to RARE and their TTB's to OFTEN and even barely brings other players into the game.

I jokingly said to another moderator (tactical one) that my team played better in one match where I had a sending off and I subbed out the striker. The simple case was, with the striker off the pitch he wasn't getting in the way of the Inside Forwards.

For me, this RWB issue is causing most of the problems. The midfielders are running into brickwalls and thus starving themselves of options and when this happens it ends up in a long shot. Hence the reason why Longshots are up too.

The two saviours for me currently are "STAND OFF" as this tends to lower the strange amount of closing down we see and "play through defence" as this lowers the RWB.

Like Welshace said, it's all workaroundable, the only thing that upsets me is that my team now do not play like I want them too. Sure they'll go and get the win, but I feel like the team are simply doing what they want and are acting as a bunch of individuals rather than a team.

I love this game and because of that I am very active in the tactical forum where i am trying to help people learn but I am bemused by all this patching. Whether this is because of the demand of the players (as I have been reliably informed) or because SI feel the need to release lots of little patches rather than one big one..... I don't know.

<--------Sad

The RWB problem is certainly a problem, but it's just not a big enough problem to be responsible for someone's tactics immediately becoming useless unless there's an inherent weakness in the tactic as well.

People are getting so overly defensive over their tactics that its stopping their own enjoyment of the game.

[lam]

The RWB problem is certainly a problem, but it's just not a big enough problem to be responsible for someone's tactics immediately becoming useless unless there's an inherent weakness in the tactic as well.

People are getting so overly defensive over their tactics that its stopping their own enjoyment of the game.

To be fair, I agree with your comment about tactics becoming useless. Mine still work and I still win games...... just in ways completely unexpected and that is the downside for me.

I know the last bit wasn't aimed at me specifically, but I am defensive about the fact that my team no longer play the way I want them to, but I am not defensive in the fact that I think my tactic is the 'be all and end all' of tactics.

For me, RWB is the only problem. I think half of the others things will go when that is fixed.

Regards

[Ackter]

There's still a few other things going on other than RWB, but that does seem to be the most pronounced one.

[Lord Rowell]

I'd say high scoring games. I'd consider 7-1 excessive in a Man Utd v Liverpool game - but ideally we'd want a save where you've had a few results on the extreme side (say a run like 5-0, 4-3. 6-2. 8-1 etc) as every once in a while even IRL there will be a 'crazy' result (the Arsenal v Reading League cup tie this season springs to mind). However we'd prefer people to upload saves than not, so that save with the 7-1 would definitely be worth a look. Thanks.

Neil, I've already uploaded my save - LRChelsea.fmc due to a different issue re. the match training, but thought I'd share this as well as it covers the issue being raised here.

The three matches highlighted are post-patch, you can see my previous results weren't that great in the context. But, after the patch, a tricky derby vs West Ham was won comfortably, The Leverkusen game was embarrasingly easy to score in (IIRC Cahill got a hat-trick???), while the match against a high-flying Stoke was won all too easily.

I haven't played this since due to the training bug. I have started a new save in full-mode with Sunderland. Won my opening pre-season against Portsmouth, away, 6-0, all too easily.

For what its worth, I think what seems to be happening is that the superior team in a match seems to be winning by an exaggerated scoreline, as if the ME is out of balance between domination / ability and number of goals actually scored IRL football.

On the plus side though, the patch probably did save my neck as Chelsea manager with the big wins as I was coming under a bit of pressure!

[dazbowski]

The RWB problem is certainly a problem, but it's just not a big enough problem to be responsible for someone's tactics immediately becoming useless unless there's an inherent weakness in the tactic as well.

People are getting so overly defensive over their tactics that its stopping their own enjoyment of the game.

So if you had a solid tactic based around short quick play and a pacy front man you fed balls into space too you think this new patch when this can no longer happen won't affect anything?

[Hunter T]

So many people are so determined to blame their own tactical failings on the ME, and this forum then becomes like a support group where everyone tells everyone else it's never their fault. It's no wonder everyone is so annoyed and frustrated around here.

So far none of the ME bugs have been so fundamental as to make a big difference to tactical instructions.

Says you, with an attitude.

What failings exactly? A lot of people actually said, that their team is overperfoming and they are having a walk in the park in the league they are playing.

Havent you seen the 7-7 draws, the 10-1 wins? The only (first world) problem is that their strikers arent scoring as much and that job is done by the wingers, their mids and their FBs (!) sometimes.

You are saying that is matter of tactics when the new patch has cleared tipped the board to the attacking side of the game (gung-ho style) doubling the runs, the dribbling per game and so on. Furthermore the new patch comlpetely altered closing down and pressure (headless chicken syndrome, playground pressing syndrome as mentioned before). And you have the audacity to suggest that any tactic had to anticipate such a drastic change? How? Please be kind to find and upload these tactics which do that. If nothing else, people will download them (i m willing to give them a try as well) start winning/not overperforming (depending on the ''tactical failings'') and stop posting here nagging and protesting and generally annoying you.

Lets talk tactics then.

A brief history of my save with Crystal Palace. I wanted to start with a mediocre team and basically stay clear as soon as possible from the relegation zone. I was struggling a lot and after the 3-0 defeat by Leicester in 22/09 i decided to change my tactics and my general approach. A 4-4-2 closed diamond formation, (4-1-2-1-2) compact and rigid was the answer to the 4-4-2 flat played by almost everyone in Champioship. I figured it was an acceptable risk to cover the centre than the flanks since i didnt have the quality needed there and i could compensate the lack of it, with hard working effort in the centre.

As it can be seen, didnt made CP invicible, but it made us a very difficult opponent to beat.

An amazing 9 game undefeated run made it possible for CP to get in the first 10 and to cut a long story short the 2-0 victory over Middlesdrough

brought CP in the play-offs. (6th). The dramatic 3-2 win (3rd goal scored in 88th minute) brought us in the 5th place full of determination and good morale.

Then, the patch came out.

Now, first of all i am not complaining. The goal was not to achieve promotion in the first place.

And i know all about choking at the top issues and that kind of mumbo-jumbo.

But what i was seeing was hard to believe. We were routed in every game from minute one. (the 3-0 win, i was on holiday).

The problem? Wingers that had the space to act and full backs to support them where able to cross or drible far more easily and far more efficiently.

The reason for that was that my tactic didnt empoly wingers (a lot of space at my flanks) and my full backs because of the pressing/closing down issues couldnt mark them properly. Thus, the team lost the cohesion and the general rigidity it had. Funny thing, this constant beating, didnt seem to affect my players much, since the 12th place was much more that was anticipated.

The question is, how could i see it coming. This change.

Clearly, my tactic didnt beat the ME before the patch, i was not dominating, i just had a very hard working side.

Sometimes it paid off sometimes not.

But this total annihilation after the patch, that was somethnig i have never seen before. It was like i suddenly had a new team in my hands.

Thinking back, i am actually quite happy that we didnt get the promotion after all. I dread the moment where my humble CP team would have to deal with the Bales of this world (patch) in the Premiership.

Off to buy some decent wingers for the next seasson i guess.

[fmFutbolManager]

To all those asking for notice on updates, you could always just switch Steam to offline mode like some of us do and then wait to read the feedback on the new ME before deciding if you want to take the update or not. Because lets face it, this is not the first ME that SI have released that people have trouble with. We're well versed in how these things work. SI release a game, it's brilliant, bar a couple of bugs. These are fixed and other bugs are introduced.

Just a thought...

[Loversleaper]

Tubey84, what set up are you using, havent seen this yet, interested to see if i can replicate it

It's quite easy to replicate the closing down issue. I tend to see it mostly when being a top side playing another top side, the best opponent for this I feel is Bayern Munich. Try playing a home game against them...

[Ackter]

A lot of people actually said, that their team is overperfoming

Yes they have, which means what I've been saying doesn't apply to them.

Why are people so insistent on applying my comments to things they have nothing to do with? Are you all that desperate to be annoyed by something?

[Wizard boy]

Don`t know if its been mentioned. Found a small problem. http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee255/matt00734/BradfordTownvBury_HomeTeamSelectionOverview_zpsdecd54fd.png

Its suppose to have the names, goals, condition, ratings. i put them there but when i go back. its like this.

[dazbowski]

To all those asking for notice on updates, you could always just switch Steam to offline mode like some of us do and then wait to read the feedback on the new ME before deciding if you want to take the update or not. Because lets face it, this is not the first ME that SI have released that people have trouble with. We're well versed in how these things work. SI release a game, it's brilliant, bar a couple of bugs. These are fixed and other bugs are introduced.

Just a thought...

Mine was set not to update, steam updated and it changed. So I had no choice.

[Kriss]

Be nice to know whether something is being worked on though? I'd guess there is given how quiet SI have been the majority of the time.

Patch is fine for me in the Championship, seems like its the big leagues especially the Prem.

The ME is always being worked on, there is a team that work on nothing else but rolling out updates for it are subject to many things and we will never be given dates in advance for often stated reasons.

[Hunter T]

And i ask you again.

What failings exactly? In their ability to mark a winger? In their ability to understand that closing down just doesnt work as it worked before the patch?

Their attacker not being as prolific as he was all of a sudden? Are these, in the heart of it, a tactics problem? This is what you believe?

You actually said that all the above (problems that the new patch has) and some i forget are not big enough factors to make a big difference to tactical instructions (my words--->) and thus the team performance on the pitch. What is then? Can you give us an example of factors that CAN make a difference?

Cause if this is what you believe, the i ask you again, make a sticky topic, where good hearted people in the spirit of the season with ''sound tactics'' could upload them there for everyone to use as a xmas gift.

I would save you (and us) a lot of trouble.

[Hunter T]

So many people are so determined to blame their own tactical failings on the ME, and this forum then becomes like a support group where everyone tells everyone else it's never their fault. It's no wonder everyone is so annoyed and frustrated around here.

So far none of the ME bugs have been so fundamental as to make a big difference to tactical instructions.

Says you, with an attitude.

What failings exactly? A lot of people actually said, that their team is overperfoming and they are having a walk in the park in the league they are playing.

Havent you seen the 7-7 draws, the 10-1 wins? The only (first world) problem is that their strikers arent scoring as much and that job is done by the wingers, their mids and their FBs (!) sometimes.

You are saying that is matter of tactics when the new patch has cleared tipped the board to the attacking side of the game (gung-ho style) doubling the runs, the dribbling per game and so on. Furthermore the new patch comlpetely altered closing down and pressure (headless chicken syndrome, playground pressing syndrome as mentioned before). And you have the audacity to suggest that any tactic had to anticipate such a drastic change? How? Please be kind to find and upload these tactics which do that. If nothing else, people will download them (i m willing to give them a try as well) start winning/not overperforming (depending on the ''tactical failings'') and stop posting here nagging and protesting and generally annoying you.

Lets talk tactics then.

A brief history of my save with Crystal Palace. I wanted to start with a mediocre team and basically stay clear as soon as possible from the relegation zone. I was struggling a lot and after the 3-0 defeat by Leicester in 22/09 i decided to change my tactics and my general approach. A 4-4-2 closed diamond formation, (4-1-2-1-2) compact and rigid was the answer to the 4-4-2 flat played by almost everyone in Champioship. I figured it was an acceptable risk to cover the centre than the flanks since i didnt have the quality needed there and i could compensate the lack of it, with hard working effort in the centre.

As it can be seen, didnt made CP invicible, but it made us a very difficult opponent to beat.

An amazing 9 game undefeated run made it possible for CP to get in the first 10 and to cut a long story short the 2-0 victory over Middlesdrough

brought CP in the play-offs. (6th). The dramatic 3-2 win (3rd goal scored in 88th minute) brought us in the 5th place full of determination and good morale.

Then, the patch came out.

Now, first of all i am not complaining. The goal was not to achieve promotion in the first place.

And i know all about choking at the top issues and that kind of mumbo-jumbo.

But what i was seeing was hard to believe. We were routed in every game from minute one. (the 3-0 win, i was on holiday).

The problem? Wingers that had the space to act and full backs to support them where able to cross or drible far more easily and far more efficiently.

The reason for that was that my tactic didnt empoly wingers (a lot of space at my flanks) and my full backs because of the pressing/closing down issues couldnt mark them properly. Thus, the team lost the cohesion and the general rigidity it had. Funny thing, this constant beating, didnt seem to affect my players much, since the 12th place was much more that was anticipated.

The question is, how could i see it coming. This change.

Clearly, my tactic didnt beat the ME before the patch, i was not dominating, i just had a very hard working side.

Sometimes it paid off sometimes not.

But this total annihilation after the patch, that was somethnig i have never seen before. It was like i suddenly had a new team in my hands.

Thinking back, i am actually quite happy that we didnt get the promotion after all. I dread the moment where my humble CP team would have to deal with the Bales of this world (patch) in the Premiership.

Off to buy some decent wingers for the next seasson i guess.

[avex]

Beyond the problems that I already posted about , I've also noticed that:

- Long shots seem to be taken far too often, even when the player taking them has creative freedom set as little and long shots set to rarely. Also, many of these shots will end up being closer to the corner flag than the goal, which seems a little unrealistic

- Through balls seem to have been toned down too much? As others have noted, goals seem to come almost primarily from midfield now, with forwards not really getting enough good supply even when you have great passers in your team with through balls set to often?

- For me anyway, the post/crossbar seems to be getting hit an unrealistic amount of times - like four or more times every match.

- The opposition doesn't seem to leave enough players at the back when taking attacking crosses. And not just when they are chasing the match, but when it's 0-0 in the 20th minute and the AI leaves only one player back at the half-way line and maybe another lurking outside the area, it's actually frustrating to score a counter-attacking goal this way.

- Injuries still seem to happen too often imo. First match of the season, had a first-team player out for 4-5 weeks from a dislocated jaw due to a late tackle (did he get tackled in the face?!), fair enough it happens, so I kept on playing. Before I even get to the 2nd match of the season, another first-team player picked up a 5-6 week injury in training. Reloaded the game, yet again a first team regular picked up another injury in training, this time 6-7 weeks! Same thing happened in the pre-season. Don't have training set to heavy either.

- Maybe once every match, my goalkeeper will save the ball, go to throw it to a full-back, but massively over-throw where it will almost end up in the stands! Can't say I've seen this happen in real life too often, let alone every single match. Poor Hugo Lloris, no wonder he didn't make the Tottenham first-team straight away in real life if his throwing in-game is any indication of what he was doing in training!

100% agree in those. Happens every match.

Also I think headings and goalkeeper rebounds are go too far. I've seen plenty of 50-70 meters rebounds and that's not by any meaning something you see in real life. A ball that hits the goalkeeper and then goes 70 meters away would most likely injure the keeper.

Also is extremely frustrating to see players with first touch and technique from 15-19 to fail a bunch of mega-easy receptions every match, causing lots of counter attacks. That also doesn't happen in real life.

And decision making has been a bit screwed from FM12. Even players with really high decisions attribute (and players with all mental attributes high) have a really low good/bad rate.

I'm also seeing my wingers, with RwB set to "sometimes", trough balls to "always", and crosses to "always" not try a single through ball or cross in a match, but try to make lots of 50-70 meters runs. I'm finding pretty common to see them running from one wing to the opposite while ignoring lots of other options.

And I don't know why, but wingers and full backs tend to ignore my target man. Last match one of my full backs tried 15 crossings, and only one was aiming to my tall target man. The others where always aiming the short second striker, or my short attacking wingers. Making those crosses useless.

[Lord Rowell]

Am I going mad??? Where has page 12 of this thread gone???

We have a gap in posts from 11:30 until 12:22 but several have been made in that time.

Mods - if you needed to move that page for whatever reason then fine, could you let us know so I don't doubt my mental faculties? Thanks

[nonleague]

Wow a whole page just deleted!

I was just reading some comments regarding this update and suddenly they have all been removed. Some of them raised interesting points

[Lord Rowell]

Wow a whole page just deleted!

I was just reading some comments regarding this update and suddenly they have all been removed. Some of them raised interesting points

They seem to be back now, probably just some thread editing going on

[Ackter]

They seem to be back now, probably just some thread editing going on

Nope, no thread editing, it's just the forum being annoying.

[aiston]

Couple of incredibly annoying things:

Match pre-planned?

Idiotic player positioning:

[nonleague]

Nope, no thread editing, it's just the forum being annoying.

For a moment there I thought that read 'it's just the moderator being annoying'. Really do need to get my eyes tested!

[TwoHeadedEagle]

After playing for several days now.. Good patch but two things need to be sorted out.

The solo-goals happen to often!!

The GK-errors, like passing the ball to the opposition and they score. Happens with all of my GKs.

[Ackter]

And i ask you again.

What failings exactly? In their ability to mark a winger? In their ability to understand that closing down just doesnt work as it worked before the patch?

Their attacker not being as prolific as he was all of a sudden? Are these, in the heart of it, a tactics problem? This is what you believe?

You actually said that all the above (problems that the new patch has) and some i forget are not big enough factors to make a big difference to tactical instructions (my words--->) and thus the team performance on the pitch. What is then? Can you give us an example of factors that CAN make a difference?

Cause if this is what you believe, the i ask you again, make a sticky topic, where good hearted people in the spirit of the season with ''sound tactics'' could upload them there for everyone to use as a xmas gift.

I would save you (and us) a lot of trouble.

There's a tactics forum if you want help, and I've linked plenty of times to wwfan's thread which will help people no end if only they could stop being so stubborn about thinking their way is perfect.

None of the patch problems are big enough to make a successful tactic sudden awful unless there was problems with the users' tactical set ups as well. Plenty of people are carrying on as normal, it's only a relatively small group of very vocal posters that are continually complaining about the match engine spoiling their tactics - and most of them have been posting the exact same things in each of the patch threads. So are they right, that the match engine is to blame? Or am I right, and they don't know as much tactically as they think they do?

For the record, I've been using three tactics in total since the beta. All three of which continued to work when the patches where applied. I set up my tactic with a very similar thought process as that shown by wwfan in his tactical thread.

[thebigfish08]

Just to clarify from an SI perspective, yes we're aware dribbling is overpowered, yes we're aware the goal per game overall is slightly too high at the highest levels and yes of course we're looking into this. What we really need is users uploading save games where they've seen what they consider 'unrealistically high' scores (especially by their own team) to our FTP and let us know the save game name. That way we can use these saves to help us make the game better for everyone.

FTP details here - http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/319072

Remember if you do upload to let us know the save game name.

Thanks.

Cheers Neil - always good to get official confirmation despite good effort and dedication by mods (doffs cap). Will upload some that show the long shots. For me personally, had problems in previous match engines where although player instructions were set to rarely shoot from range they would loads. This could be controlled somewhat by work into the box shout but this now seems to have little impact and I have all my centre mids thinking they are...well Roberto Carlos judging by how successful they actually are.

[rmfarey]

Hi guys,

Was worried after reading the comments on here about the scores being so high. Thankfully not had that problem and the games have been very close, even had a 0-0!

A couple of things though I think need ironing out:

* Solo runs, which has been mentioned alot. There is definitely too many now, just needs toning down slightly.

* Also the amount of shots does seem too high.

Still enjoying the game though and fortunately for me the patch hasn't spoilt my game.

[stevieg12345]

Just a couple of points I want to get across in a game I just played against Chelsea with Wigan.

Clip 1

Right from the off my player throws the ball straight to Ashley Cole? WTF WHY!? Not one of my players is near him? Is that because my tactics are utter bollocks also? (0.06). Followed on by that, why does Ashley Cole just stroll through unchallenged?

After the ball falls to Azpilicueta (0.20) why does he just run through like there is no one there. Players surround him but why does no player make a challenge? They're 5 players at the back ffs! They all just try to contain him for some reason. Two players are near nearly the whole run but again no one makes a challenge? Serious WTF! Do I have to tell defenders to tackle in tactics since the update or what?

So far the clearances have been effective, the CB's have been attacking the crosses and dealing them with ease. Falls to Ashley Cole again (0.30) who plays to Lampard who then exchanged a great bit of play with Hazard. But then Hazard plays what can only be said to be a poor ball to Ben Arfa however it runs straight through the two defenders directly to Ben Arfa? Do defenders not see a ball that rolls on the floor now?

Clip 2

(0.56) Anderson's pass is intercepted and the defender passes back to the GK. So why do 3 players chase down the GK? This now leaves me seriously outnumbered for a counter attack!

Due to this Azplilicueta is allowed to run freely with the ball AGAIN! (1.02). The WBL who is supposed and has been set to be marking their AMR then charges forward, runs past their DL. DL plays a simple through ball to AMR. Intercepted by my WBL who then passes the ball back to their AMR! Long behold 2-0.

[video=youtube;1bQQtFv3T3c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bQQtFv3T3c

[Hunter T]

There's a tactics forum if you want help, and I've linked plenty of times to wwfan's thread which will help people no end if only they could stop being so stubborn about thinking their way is perfect.

None of the patch problems are big enough to make a successful tactic sudden awful unless there was problems with the users' tactical set ups as well. Plenty of people are carrying on as normal, it's only a relatively small group of very vocal posters that are continually complaining about the match engine spoiling their tactics - and most of them have been posting the exact same things in each of the patch threads. So are they right, that the match engine is to blame? Or am I right, and they don't know as much tactically as they think they do?

For the record, I've been using three tactics in total since the beta. All three of which continued to work when the patches where applied. I set up my tactic with a very similar thought process as that shown by wwfan in his tactical thread.

Sorry i dont think you answered any of my questions.

1. What failings?

2. What do you believe would be a factor that can make a big difference to tactical instructions? Can you give me an example?

If you had a side that was based in heavy pressing and/or heavy closing down can you do it now when wingers outrun and outdribble almost every single time? What do you do then? Drop back and try and contain them, get more players behind the ball, etc but that doesnt change the way your team plays?

3. About your tactics, can you upload them somewhere so that everybody can benefit?

[Ackter]

I've already described the failings in previous posts.

It would need to be a major flaw, for example the corner bug from FM11 (iirc)

My current main tactic:

the 451 (DM AML AMR) formation

Fluid style, control strategy

Playing style to defaults

GK G-D

DL FB-A

DCs CD-D

DR FB-S

DM A-D

MRC CM-A

MLC CM-S

AMR W-A

AML W-S

S DLF-S

Everything else is done with shouts.

[nonleague]

For the record, I've been using three tactics in total since the beta. All three of which continued to work when the patches where applied. I set up my tactic with a very similar thought process as that shown by wwfan in his tactical thread.

Would be awesome if you could upload your tactics so those of us know exactly what a totally sound structured tactic actually looks like so we can use it for each patch release as a 'safe-mode' for FM.

[Ackter]

I doubt my formation is totally sound, but so far it's proved sound enough.

It will also depend on the playing staff.

[nonleague]

I've already described the failings in previous posts.

It would need to be a major flaw, for example the corner bug from FM11 (iirc)

My current main tactic:

the 451 (DM AML AMR) formation

Fluid style, control strategy

Playing style to defaults

GK G-D

DL FB-A

DCs CD-D

DR FB-S

DM A-D

MRC CM-A

MLC CM-S

AMR W-A

AML W-S

S DLF-S

Everything else is done with shouts.

So is this the 'safe-mode' for FM? protection against any unrealistic patch for those that are struggling?

[Ackter]

No, it's just the formation I use with my team that has so far continued to provide similar levels of success through each patch.

The fact that people think that a tactic alone, which was designed for someone else's team, can be an answer to everyone's problems is a worry in itself.

You should be looking to create a tactic that will work with your team - and its how that tactic is created is the most important thing.

[nonleague]

No, it's just the formation I use with my team that has so far continued to provide similar levels of success through each patch.

The fact that people think that a tactic alone, which was designed for someone else's team, can be an answer to everyone's problems is a worry in itself.

You should be looking to create a tactic that will work with your team - and its how that tactic is created is the most important thing.

I understand that. I just find it mystifying that people are continuously being directed to the 12 step holy grail when they are using a tactic from a previous patch that worked wonders and were told that this ME is and I quote 'unexploitable'. Remember, we were told that even the great Mr Hough has given up trying to find an exploit and is relying upon in game 'shouts'.

So it seems after all, that the ME has always been exploitable.

[Ackter]

It's not unexploitable, but its a lot less exploitable than previous match engines were.

[fizzo]

raheem sterling just run past 7! of my defensive players, i'm playing athletic bilbao and my back four consists of inigo martinez, san jose, iraola and natxo monreal. i even got back javi martinez from bayern. i just ragequitted a friendly with no save in the last 3 months. i have pretty much the same tactic that ackter just described. see you again after the january patch :/

[RobertPage]

I am getting really frustrated because i dominating teams but my players keep shooting from stupid distances. I'm getting +60% possession in most game but the lack of real chances made is just pathetic. My 5 Midfielders are all creative but nearly every time i see a highlight it's a few passes being put together and then a stupid long shot (1 of about 50 have gone in due to players having fairly average long shots attributes)

Seems like a bug to me and is really effecting my results and is especially frustrating when i'm losing games due to players easily running through defenders since the update

[youngrookie]

ive been playing FM for many, many years and expect and accept the challenge each new game gives me whether it be from the start or the patches/updates. Ive read alot of the talk on the ME of FM13, from the Beta to the updated patches after release, and it seems to me that with each patch up brings new problems. The mad crossing to the far post, the FBs being badly positioned was a pain. But then it was fixed with the last patch. I personally did not see alot wrong with the last update. This update i have encountered the problems most people are experiencing but not on the massive scale being reported, this could be due to the quality of my team. It does seem like more of my players want to run with the ball. Asamoah, who i had at full bk done a mazy dribble from inside his own half and tucked it away. When this goal was scored i was surprised and at the time i didn't know i had an update.

It seems that one update fixes the faults of the last but goes a little overboard with it. The defensive positioning on the last patch was fine. On the update i have seen 3/4 defenders all rushing to close down one player. Im no computer programmer or whatever you want to call it but is it that difficult to set the 'selected ME changes' and then play it and note down the drastic changes, compare against the older patch and then come up with something in the middle.

For so many forum users, and going by there own number of past posts are experienced FM users, to have noticed the same kind of situations as each other you have to wonder if the new patch was properly tested. How can so many people be incorrect. Surely the SI testers must of seen it and chatted about it.

[Ackter]

I am getting really frustrated because i dominating teams but my players keep shooting from stupid distances. I'm getting +60% possession in most game but the lack of real chances made is just pathetic. My 5 Midfielders are all creative but nearly every time i see a highlight it's a few passes being put together and then a stupid long shot (1 of about 50 have gone in due to players having fairly average long shots attributes)

Seems like a bug to me and is really effecting my results and is especially frustrating when i'm losing games due to players easily running through defenders since the update

Yup there's definitely problems like you've described.

To try and help with the huge possession issue, are you using the Attacking strategy? If so, try changing to something like Control (if you use short passing), which will slow your team down a bit, or Defensive (if you use direct passing) which tries to encourage the other team to create spaces for you to attack.

[Hunter T]

So Acter, since the fact that for you the overpowered wingers and the closing down/press situation (lets focus at this for a second and ignore the other serious flaws) are not a game changer tactic-wise, do you think, in your experience, that a tactic with 3 in the back and using WBs only, could be continued to be (as) succesful vs a tactic with 2 players in each flank ? (such as yours for example)

[Ackter]

My backup tactic is an attacking:

DRC CD-D

DC BPD-C

DLC CD-D

DM A-D

MR WM-A

MC CM-S

MC CM-A

ML WM-S

ST DLF-S

ST AF-A

Which also still works.

[Loversleaper]

Would be awesome if you could upload your tactics so those of us know exactly what a totally sound structured tactic actually looks like so we can use it for each patch release as a 'safe-mode' for FM.

If we take an example:

ME 13.1.3 somehow favored defensive tactics due to values being increased in those areas.

ME 13.2 somehow favors more attacking tactics with RWB.

If you design solely a tactic that you adapted into the 13.1.3 version, of course you are going to struggle when the 'values' change from one ME version to the next because you are relying on a tactic that is dependent on what works best presently.

That is why usually it is a good idea to have at least a couple of strategies for different scenarios you will encounter when playing the game. Hence the reason that the game gives you the option to learn 3 different tactics/strategies. It is a good idea for gamers to know when to attack more, defend more or a little bit of both.

Let's say that you are in a match situation where you need to play more defensive (to maximise the risk/reward element), then it doesn't really matter which version of the ME you are playing - the tactic will do basically the same overall as it always has due to using the more or less correct strategy for the situation. If you know when to use strategies, then you will always have more or less 'sound' tactics...

Right now with the current ME it might be harder to spot, due to certain attributes creating ME havoc - but all in all, the strategy theory is not obsolete...

[Ackter]

Or you can keep your main tactics relatively simple and use the shout system to counteract problems.

The more individual settings you use, the more useless the team instructions and shouts become.

[nonleague]

Just to clarify I personally have and always have had 3 tactics loaded with different shapes to help counteract any weaknesses that may arise from our overall shape vs our opponent. What gets me is that we were told that the ME was not exploitable and long gone are the days when we could setup in a particular way and have major success. Well, this is totally untrue. Look at the people winning 10-0 etc and as you have rightly said, just switch on the rwb and play attacking. This should destroy the ME with the correct players for the task.

Previous patch, play defensive and hit on the counter worked wonders, try it in this patch and you'll get slaughtered. Why? totally unsound tactic? no, because the ME is broken and is fluctuating from one extreme to the other.

[Ackter]

Except the extremes aren't actually that extreme, which will give you an idea of how difficult it is to balance.

[Hunter T]

So far none of the ME bugs have been so fundamental as to make a big difference to tactical instructions.

Yup there's definitely problems like you've described.

To try and help with the huge possession issue, are you using the Attacking strategy? If so, try changing to something like Control (if you use short passing), which will slow your team down a bit, or Defensive (if you use direct passing) which tries to encourage the other team to create spaces for you to attack.

Sorry i lost you here.

You are actually suggesting to change his strategy in order to deal with one of the ME bug/problem? Isnt this going to affect the way his team is performing?

Could you please elaborate?

[Ackter]

No, I'm suggesting he changes his strategy to combat the lots-of-possession-but-very-little-end-product problem which a lot of people have been experiencing in most versions of FM. I'd have advised the same thing last year and the year before too.

[RobertPage]

i already am set to controlled. I just find my players run 10 yards forward rather than play an easy forward pass and end up having 2 or 3 players around them, then either shoot (usually straight at the keeper) or have to turn and play the ball backwards

[themadsheep2001]

i already am set to controlled. I just find my players run 10 yards forward rather than play an easy forward pass and end up having 2 or 3 players around them, then either shoot (usually straight at the keeper) or have to turn and play the ball backwards

Reckon you could post a screenshot of your team/player instructions here or in the tactical section?

Also do you have a PKM of when they take that needless run, rather than make the easy pass?

[Ackter]

Are you using individual instructions or shouts that would effect that strategy?

[avex]

Or you can keep your main tactics relatively simple and use the shout system to counteract problems.

The more individual settings you use, the more useless the team instructions and shouts become.

Simple TC tactics don't allow lots of the things one may want to do. Even combined with shouts. And tend to be "very English".