Gooders86 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Anybody just watch this program? sure it'll be on iplayer shortly, but looks a bit mental. I'm sure it's only telling one side of the racism story and deliberately painting a bad picture, but fans in that country looks absolutely shocking. I had an inkling it was bad, but jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Did anyone see the BBC 1 about the racism in Ukraine. Utterly ridiculous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Sensationalist nonsense. I'm more inclined to believe an unknown commentator on twitter who said this: I commentated on more than 50 Polish games of football this season and not once did I see a Nazi salute, nor one Swastika, nor one fight. The fact of the matter is Panorama has gone to Poland/Ukraine to make a documentary about RACISM, nothing else. You look you find, easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Someone else just made a thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just saw this after I started a thread but scary really. How they are hosting the competition there is beyond belief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just realised :o Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just saw this after I started a thread but scary really. How they are hosting the competition there is beyond belief This kind of program is usually pretty sensationalistic, probably nothing will happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhoy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 made me feel really sick watching it. truely horrible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanNUFC Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Sky sports news did a report on it to btw. We shall see how the tournament goes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMT Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 It makes you wonder what the hell was going through UEFAs minds when they chose Poland and Ukraine, we all knew it was bad over there, and I am sure there was plenty of good areas and work being done that Panaroma didn't highlight so much, but they clearly have a mass problem, worse than in the UK in the 70s. I think UEFA should have told both countries that they would be happy for them to host at some time in the future, but they have to get their houses in order. It beggars belief that some of the people interviewed have the beliefs they do in this century. On the flip side, with many Poles living here I know alot of them, and I suspect the ones I know are just as angry with the situation out there as everyone else. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I'm sure they only got the gig because Italy were involved in the match fixing scandal (when Juve went down) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Could have done a similar documentary in any country and got the same reaction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grff Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Just watched it and found it quite worrying really. It was like watching 70's British hooligism on turbo setting. The fact the the Police chief tried to somehow dismiss the Nazi salutes as just pointing was amazing, along with how stewards/police inside the stadia seemed either oblivious to the ultras' behaviour or just unmotivated to do anything about it. To top it all off, who decided to not segregate fans for the most violent derby of the season?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebirds4life Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Remember the Ross Kemp on gangs thing just absolutely mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReggaeBwoy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 This kind of program is usually pretty sensationalistic, probably nothing will happen. No, believe me these people are out to cause danger. It is being hyped up for a reason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grff Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Sensationalist nonsense.I'm more inclined to believe an unknown commentator on twitter who said this: I commentated on more than 50 Polish games of football this season and not once did I see a Nazi salute, nor one Swastika, nor one fight. The fact of the matter is Panorama has gone to Poland/Ukraine to make a documentary about RACISM, nothing else. You look you find, easily. Hmmm, I'm more inclined to believe footage of said matches than an unknown commentator clearly trying to show his country in a good light. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Hmmm, I'm more inclined to believe footage of said matches than an unknown commentator clearly trying to show his country in a good light. He's british. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Select_screen_name: Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 I thought everyone knew these nations had a hardcore fanbase anyway? Its not like is something new or surprising. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grff Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 He's british. Fair enough, but obviously has some kind of alligence/bias towards Poland. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 No, believe me these people are out to cause danger. It is being hyped up for a reason This kind of negative hype always happen before a major tournament, especially if the tournament is played outside UK/USA/Germany/Japan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Fair enough, but obviously has some kind of alligence/bias towards Poland. He really doesn't - commentates on loads of countries, I follow him for the South American football: https://twitter.com/#!/Wanchope_Dickov Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Could have done a similar documentary in any country and got the same reaction.Could they? England? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bootador Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Could they? England? Pluck out the documentary of Leeds going to Millwall or vice-versa. job done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Was just going to post exactly that. You're deluded if you think they couldn't do this in England. Arm yourself with a camera and an agenda and you could make a hooligan film following any club in the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminpeter Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ukraine and Poland got the Euros because the heads of their associations backed Platini in his UEFA reelection campaign. But that's by the by. I wonder what would happen if someone did a racism documentary in the areas surrounding St James' Park, Anfield, Old Trafford, St Andrews, South London, Leeds etc? It'd be an eye-opener for a few I can tell ya. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obi-Wan Kenobi Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 FC Porto fined £17,500 for racist chants & Man City fined £25,000 for coming on the pitch 1 minute late. Just shows you where UEFA's priorities lie. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robokid87 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Was there not this kind of furore about crime in South Africa before the WC? Don't remember many (if any) incidents during the tournament. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMLF Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Was there not this kind of furore about crime in South Africa before the WC? Don't remember many (if any) incidents during the tournament. Yes, there was and you can be sure there will be some nonsense about Brazil as well by the time the 2014 is closer to start. This kind of news is good to sell newspapers and increase TV ratings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Everybody was supposed to get carjacked in South Africa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATW Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Pluck out the documentary of Leeds going to Millwall or vice-versa. job done. Was just going to post exactly that. You're deluded if you think they couldn't do this in England.Arm yourself with a camera and an agenda and you could make a hooligan film following any club in the country. What Leeds fans are known to attack their own fans because they're Asians or Blacks. You sure about that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
endtime Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 There is a hooligan problem in Poland. Anyone who says that there is no racism in Polish stadiums is lying or blind and deaf. It mostly affects club sides, however, hooligans don't care much about international competitions. Also, it's hilarious when English (I presume) fans act all shocked, as if there were no high-profile racism scandals in the Premier League this season. Get real people, racism is rife in stadiums all over the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Was just going to post exactly that. You're deluded if you think they couldn't do this in England.Arm yourself with a camera and an agenda and you could make a hooligan film following any club in the country. What Leeds fans are known to attack their own fans because they're Asians or Blacks. You sure about that? Did I say that? :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jeroen Thijssen Posted May 28, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ukraine and Poland got the Euros because the heads of their associations backed Platini in his UEFA reelection campaign. But that's by the by. I wonder what would happen if someone did a racism documentary in the areas surrounding St James' Park, Anfield, Old Trafford, St Andrews, South London, Leeds etc? It'd be an eye-opener for a few I can tell ya. This. Somebody give me enough funds and I can make a documentary series of all that's wrong with Britain. From lighter stuff like Embarassing Bodies and poor healthcare to extreme crime and hardcore drug-dealing and gang violence and racism and everything that you want to come up with. Hey, I'm Dutch - surely I can do something with the (former) liberal stance on drugs and all the bad sides of prostitution. Some people at Fox News USA will get their fanny moist. Sure, Poland and Ukraine are not particularly paradise - but as a whole there's not too much wrong with them. I initially thought (thanks to clouded media perceptions that) Russia was a sadistic, scary and evil place - turns out that St-Petersburg is PHENOMENAL. Yes, there is still racism - but this actually makes sense and the shift to capitalism has also invoked a lot of poverty. Hey, there used to be (and some content still is) racism in England as well. Oh yeah, and everybody that went to South-Africa has been carjacked and has been raped bareback and now has HIV. The grass ain't green anywhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jeroen Thijssen Posted May 28, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted May 28, 2012 In fact, looking at Dutch football 'Hooliganism' Ajax calls themselves Jews. There will be chants going - Hamas Hamas - Joden aan het Gas -> Hamas Hamas, put the Jews to the gas. or elsewhere - Rotterdam kankerstad, in de oorlog lag je plat -> Rotterdam, city of cancer* - you were bombed flat in the war. * the swear using cancer is the worst swear in Dutch. There are also t-shirts of people (Ajax-supporters) that will depict airplanes dropping bombs on Rotterdam. you COULD consider this facist, racist etc - but for most people this is just a joke. For some perhaps not, but that is a small (stupid, ignorant) minority. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Pluck out the documentary of Leeds going to Millwall or vice-versa. job done. Oh right because we see anti sematic banners, chants and what not at either of those two grounds? Ive been to both, didnt see either. No Nazi salutes at any game ive visited. Not seen no blacks get abused for a long while, no mixed race abuse either. They couldnt have3 done a similar documentary at all, you fail to realise they cover plenty of clubs over 2 countries to get their stuff, you think 2 clubs would be a similar documentary? Was just going to post exactly that. You're deluded if you think they couldn't do this in England.You could probably find small cliques who go to bars who talk about this, that and the other....doing it so openly in a football ground in England? yeah as per usual with you, give your head a shake. Arm yourself with a camera and an agenda and you could make a hooligan film following any club in the country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 The Polish part of the documentary was ridiculous. The went to Lodz to get a story about antisemitism when it's the one city that's famous for it. They then went to Krakow for violence when fans from all over Poland hate Krakow fans because they disobey the rules of how to behave and have ended up murdering each-other and other fans. They then went to a game in a regional league (3rd tier is E/W and not even fully professional) because there happened to be an offensive choreo there. The Jihad Legia choreo is a political statement, not racism. Legia's ultras are known as being nationalist for sure. They are pretty right wing. They do however hate Hitler as everyone else in Poland does. Even the extreme right hate Nazism. The BBC did nothing to reflect this in the documentary because of their agenda. Also the antisemitism is not really about hating Jews. It's more ignorance and stupidity. It happens all over Europe. Dutch people insult Jews because of Ajax. Chelsea insult Jews when they face Spurs. Czechs call Slavia Prague Jews. Hungarians called MTK Jews. I am not trying to defend it. Just saying it's stupid but not uncommon. The Euros will take place in Warsaw, Poznan, Gdansk and Wroclaw. There have no been problems in any of these cities ahead of the Euros apart from the odd bit of trouble with Legia. They didn't bother to even visit the other three because there is nothing to find. Wroclaw is full of tourists from all over the world and the fans there are well behaved. There hasn't been a major problem in Gdansk for ages. Same with Poznan. The fact is they went all over Poland looking for the most extreme images to create a documentary to fit their agenda rather than reporting an accurate picture of what Poland's like. The BBC were no different to the people in their film by making something so xenophobic that is full of stereotypes and is not a fair reflection of what Poland is actually like. They even lied about the minor details. For example at the start when they were in Lodz they claimed that the fans were so violent that they wanted to fight among themselves because Widzew were banned from the game. In fact the LKS fans were fighting Widzew fans who had come to the streets near the stadium to support their team and protest about being banned. They would've known this because it was all over the Polish news on the day that it happened. I feel really angry that my tax money was wasted making something that only insults Poland and its people. I am half English, half Polish and am rather offended by it. There are bad people in every country and you can easily find them and use them to make a biased film. That's what a so-called respectable company has done here. It's no different to the sensationalism that was around before the WC in Germany when apparently Nazi gangs were going to kill non-white fights. I can't speak for the Ukraine as I don't know it as well, but the Polish part was pathetic. I could go on Google right now and find far worse images in Italian or Spanish stadia than what they have showed in Poland. They wouldn't make a film about this however because British people have enough knowledge of these two nations to know that the examples are extreme and not the norm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Jesus Powlay, why don't you read what people post properly once in a while before you start to bash out your half arsed replies? It's a wonder your keyboard still works with all that vitriolic slobber dripping into it. Is anyone saying we have widespread violence inside English football grounds? No. Is anyone saying that groups of English fans turn on their own because they are Asian or black? No. Some have just made the point that you could find plenty of footage to make a hooligan film about English football culture if you really wanted to. That's the point. It's not about which countries are the most unpleasant/racist. It's about articles and documentaries deliberately trying to paint Poland/Ukraine in the worst light possible to get ratings and sell papers, and editing out the peaceful majority that go to matches with their kids just like we do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Is anyone saying we have widespread violence inside English football grounds? No. Is anyone saying that groups of English fans turn on their own because they are Asian or black? No. Some have just made the point that you could find plenty of footage to make a hooligan film about English football culture if you really wanted to. That's the point. It's not about which countries are the most unpleasant/racist. It's about articles and documentaries deliberately trying to paint Poland/Ukraine in the worst light possible to get ratings and sell papers, and editing out the peaceful majority that go to matches with their kids just like we do. The poster said you could make a similar documentary in any country. I mentioned England, and the reaction was 2 teams, yeah im sorry but it wouldnt be a similar documentary would it? Im not pretending that the program doesnt cherry pick bits to suit its agenda, all programs do that. But you couldnt make a similar documetary in England. Im not sure where you get any stands full of people doing right wing actions? Im not sure how you could make a similar documantary. Sure you could try and make one about hooligans from a era thats long gone. Danny Dyer did it. Problem is you watch that panorama thing and you see it very open, you watchg the danny dyer and its in the back room of some pub. Its not open, thats because it doesnt actually happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
metlika Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 No, believe me these people are out to cause danger. It is being hyped up for a reason Why now, not 6 years previously when they were bidding? It is sensationalist as always and detracts from the upcoming event. I know Russia has its problems but I will probably see a program on that with 1/2 months to go on about many things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niebiescy Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Btw here is a great documentary about Ukrainian fans featuring players, fans, politicians, FA etc... Think it's somewhat more representative and explains their beliefs and opinions on foreigners, the Euros etc... [video=youtube;5eAlTVT_cM8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5eAlTVT_cM8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 Sure you could try and make one about hooligans from a era thats long gone. Danny Dyer did it. Problem is you watch that panorama thing and you see it very open, you watchg the danny dyer and its in the back room of some pub. Its not open, thats because it doesnt actually happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 be a long documentary with the odd hooligan clip then wouldnt it? Ive seen more hooliganism in a year of olden days compared to 10 seasons in modern stadiums. compared to the panorama one showing open racism, open hooliganism, open anti sematism, and open bnp style recruiting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Jeroen Thijssen Posted May 28, 2012 SI Staff Share Posted May 28, 2012 Ten German Bombers in the air, lalalalala - racists the whole lot of you! Ten Sheep Shaggers blablablabla Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy_T Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 have to say the ukranian bit was pretty bad on the surface, but I don't know enough to comment really. I think niebiescy has covered it all basically. if you go looking in the polish third division, a krakow derby, legia etc, what do you think you're going to find to fit your little film on racism and violence? I haven't been to lodz, but in krakow, in kielce, hell even in katowice I didn't really see anything like what this programme showed, nor did I see any nazi stuff. the game I went to in poland was a great atmosphere (mainly due to the visiting band of lech poznan fans), but there was no racism, no violence, and kielce isn't even a host city. there are problems in parts, but this over the top stuff is not the norm in poland as far as I can tell. polish ultras aren't going to care about going to most international games anyway. some of the comments I'm seeing on twitter now are just *facepalm* stuff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMT Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Was talking to a couple of the Polish lads at work tonight, they say that we don't even know the half of how bad it is over there, not just in football but in Polish society in general. One of the girls was saying her brother is actively racist back home (they are from near Krakow), so I am sure he delighted she has just had a baby with a Thai friend of mine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob1981 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Ukraine will be fine. I was in Dnipro when England played a qualifier there in 2009, and it was no different to any other away trip. And that was without UEFA and their sponsors sanitising the host city and stadium to make it fit the corporate ideal. Every World Cup / Euros is the same nowadays, you won't really be in Ukraine this summer, you'll be in UEFA Town. Do you really think they are going to have stadiums full of neo-Nazis at a major tournament? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlander Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 http://www.goal.com/en-ng/news/4093/nigeria/2012/05/09/3090744/obafemi-martins-racism-the-super-eagles-and-why-i-want-to# Here you can read what Martins think of racism in England and Russia. I know it's goal.com. But obviously, they didn't just make up this whole interview. Of course, there is racism in Eastern Europe. It's not even racism, but nationalism. But in Russia at least the main problem lies in that police don't really fight against it. The fact that police don't do anything against people from "south" who openly break the law in the streets is a big reason of that nationalism btw. But I don't think that people are in general any more racist than in England, I'm pretty sure they are even less. It's just that they can't show it in England and some Eastern countries they can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Are they doing 'fan zones' again? That's really become 'a thing' now at tournaments hasn't it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris79 Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Are they doing 'fan zones' again? That's really become 'a thing' now at tournaments hasn't it Yes, they apparently closed most of our city's centre to 'build' it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pl-fikander Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 Well, in Warsaw most of centre was already closed because of subway construction, so they did'nt have problems... Regarding Polish ultras and their nationalism; Niebiescy is talking ******** 'bout them not being racist at all; ultras of most Polish teams are openly racist and nationalist and extreme right wing political parites are closely associated with them. The thing is, ultras don't give a f*ck 'bout euro (they even have an action/protest, approbiately called "f*ck euro". they *really* think they're important, how pathetic), so they won't attend and disturb euro matches. Most of Poles are at least neutral towards other nationalities/skin colours/so on and the tournament is being held in big cities, so every foreigner should be as safe as in Milan, Prague or Berlin. If you're going to Poland, I'll be extremaly happy to give you any needed tips, just PM me if needed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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