CaptainPlanet Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 He looked cream crackered from the start. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has he come off? I hate England you know hope Stevie retires as soon as possible! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginger Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Liverpool players should all be excluded from the England squad anyway - they're Scouse not English Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has Gerrard been that great since his return? Seems on the periphery of every game these days. Or am I missing something? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 He's been better than Charlie Adam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 He's been better than Charlie Adam. Well, obvs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 I think we have high standards of what we expect from him. He's been very understated since his return from a long lay off, but he's not really done anything wrong. I thought he was poor in the Cardiff game, but he still has decent stamina and a good footballing brain on him. He does need to improve for the rest of this season if he's going to go to the Euros and to not be Carra-dropped next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Has Dirk ever put a ball in like that for us? Both look fooked, hopefully no serious damage Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 He just seems to lack the drive that once made him so good, plus has gone down a level technically in terms of passing, shooting etc. Hopefully just getting used to everything again and building his fitness up and will be back to a decent level again soon (if he's not just done more damage tonight). In any event we need to start searching for a replacement and fast. I don't want us to be 'relying' on him for the next 3 seasons if he's not capable of being relied upon any more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 He's nowhere near the player he was at his peak, and can't see him getting back there, just been too many injuries. If he can find his long range shooting boots again he can still be a big asset, I'm less worried about his lack of pace as I think he's good enough to adapt without that burst of speed that he used to have. I don't think we have a replacement for him, Henderson/Shelvey are different players. So would expect us to shell out some big bucks probably next summer for someone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Needs to playing AM in my opinion, he is just looks lost when he plays deeper. Not quick enough anymore to make up ground to tackle anymore. Did not see the England game so cannot comment on that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Is Jonjo not going out on Loan again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Yes, Middlesbrough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminpeter Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Gerrard should never have played tonight after doing 120 minutes on Sunday. Totally mindless decision from Psycho there. Also, Divinity's suggestion that Dalglish left Souness with a hospital pass the first time round was completely insane. I don't remember the early 90s but surely there were better players around than Paul Stewart, Julian Dicks and Torben Piechnik ffs. Robben and Huntelaar for next season please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 any kind of injury updates yet? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emersonlfc Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Oliver Kay says that it was a tight hamstring and was taking off as a precaution, had planned to take him off after 45 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Gerrard should never have played tonight after doing 120 minutes on Sunday. Totally mindless decision from Psycho there. Also, Divinity's suggestion that Dalglish left Souness with a hospital pass the first time round was completely insane. I don't remember the early 90s but surely there were better players around than Paul Stewart, Julian Dicks and Torben Piechnik ffs. Robben and Huntelaar for next season please. If you don't remember it, how can you say that? Dicks had been fantastic before he joined. He just turned into a fat pos afterward. Also, be more reactionary over an international friendly. Dalglish left Souness with massive rebuilding work needing to be done, as he inherited an ageing squad. That shouldn't remotely be in dispute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminpeter Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 If you don't remember it, how can you say that? Dicks had been fantastic before he joined. He just turned into a fat pos afterward. Also, be more reactionary over an international friendly. Dalglish left Souness with massive rebuilding work needing to be done, as he inherited an ageing squad. That shouldn't remotely be in dispute. It's not, but he'd also left him with players like McManaman and Rob Jones, plus a young Jamie Redknapp. And you could apply that Dicks argument to Carroll and Downing right now. There's no way you can blame Dalglish in any way for the early 90s collapse. What i should have said is that I don't remember the early 90s much. I remember enough, and I wish I didn't tbf. Robben and Huntelaar would be an improvement on what we have at the moment, but that was slightly tongue in cheek. Here's the safety wink to prove it: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You can hardly credit Kenny with having McManaman, and Souness bought Jones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 It's not, but he'd also left him with players like McManaman and Rob Jones, plus a young Jamie Redknapp. Yea, Dalglish only bought Redknapp, so let's not twist history there. And you could apply that Dicks argument to Carroll and Downing right now. There's no way you can blame Dalglish in any way for the early 90s collapse. What i should have said is that I don't remember the early 90s much. I remember enough, and I wish I didn't tbf. Dicks was 25 when he was bought. Carroll purchase I have no issues with. Downing is 27, and supposed to be in his prime. You can absolutely blame Dalglish for the early 90s issues. You were able to name one of the side that Souness had to rebuild and credit Dalglish for it, a 17 year old. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morology Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 You were able to name one of the side that Souness had to rebuild and credit Dalglish for it, a 17 year old. This is the squad that Kenny left. Some of those players are getting on, but let's not pretend Souness was handed a turd sandwich. He was an appalling manager on pretty much every level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 This is the squad that Kenny left. Some of those players are getting on, but let's not pretend Souness was handed a turd sandwich. He was an appalling manager on pretty much every level. Let's go through that list then shall we? Grobbelaar - 33 at the time. Badly needed replacing. Souness attempted to do so with James. Hooper - not good enough to step up. Holcroft - who? Ablett - Hysen was better at the time. Enough said there then. Never quite took the step up to the top level. Burrows - when Julian Dicks was considered better, you're clearly not good enough. Was second-rate, and his career afterward reflects that. Gillespie - was 30, needed replacing. Watson - never made the grade. Hysen - was really never good enough. Nicol - was good enough, was however, almost 30 after being at the club almost ten years. Wasn't going to be part of the long-term plans. Staunton - this was an error by Souness imo, but his time at Liverpool hadn't been promising until then and he shone at Villa. Tanner - bit part at best. That's a defence which patently was ageing and not good enough to remain at the top level. There was an immense amount of work needed there. Evans almost completed the rebuild Souness started, but Babb, Ruddock and Scales didn't turn out as well as first hoped. Hutchison - never good enough, horrid temperament. McMahon - turned 30 at the end of the season. Also not in long-term planning. Whelan - turned 30 in September. Not in long term planning. McManaman - made his debut under Souness. Barnes - was in his peak at 27-28. Struck down a year later by an Achilles injury which hurt his game. Houghton - was 29 when Souness took charge. Seeing a theme here of players reaching 30? Marsh - wasn't good enough. Molby - was certainly good enough at age 27, and stayed for a further 5 years until he was no longer good enough. Redknapp - signed by Dalglish and made his debut some 10 months after Dalglish left. Carter - signed by Dalglish, woeful, sold on at the end of the season. Magilton - not good enough, never played a game. So again the theme of an ageing midfield, with the players who were to replace them having to be blooded at the deep end by Souness as players hit 30. Huge generational gap. Beardsley - should never have left, another error by Souness. Rush - was 30. Whilst still phenomenal, within 4 years he was a shade of his former self. Souness saw this coming and gave opportunities to numerous players including Saunders and Fowler. Speedie - 30, not good enough at that stage. Went on to help Blackburn to promotion and then disappeared without trace once Alan Shearer arrived there. Rosenthal - was never good enough after an early streak of goals when here on loan. Cousins - never played here. Don't think anyone can argue this was also an aging forward line that needed to be revitalised. Now, don't get me wrong, Souness wasn't remotely a good manager. But the ageing squad he was left with, so short on top quality, made his difficult task ridiculously hard. He gave youth a chance, but it shouldn't have had to be under the situation where they all had to come in at once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 There's plenty of blame to go around, Kenny for some pretty poor purchases and leaving a squad that needed a complete rebuild. And then Souness for a load more poor and expensive purchases.. Dicks was an awful footballer, and i'll throw in the board for still thinking it was 1970 when the premier league kicked in too. If anything its a lesson learned that you can never become complacent and a squad that stands still quickly starts going backwards, almost an advert for DoFs and I hate those Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The lack of European football had taken its toll by 1991 and by all accounts we were thoroughly skint going into the 90s. What Souness is to blame for and part of the reason we didnt compete for a decade is that he made a strong of expensive purchases who patently were average and we never recouped any cash hardly, because they were that bad. It hamstrung our finances for a decade and arguably led us to where we were when H&G took over. A major club, but financially a decade behind the likes of Man Utd. Dalglish may have left an ageing squad (is a team of 30 year olds ageing). It should be pointed out that teams didnt have vast sqauds in the 80s like they do now. You can't blame him for the hash GS made of it. Beardsley perhaps one of the best players if his generation and gets shipped off to Everton of all people. Presumably this was to riase transfer funds, but was utter madness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Also what I think people are forgetting is the circumstances in which Dalglish left. I'm pretty sure that he had wanted to leave pretty quickly after Hillsborough but was persuaded to stay. His heart clearly wasn't in it any more and maybe his judgement was blurred. It's not as if everything was normal at the club at the time and what he went through personally during that time seriously affected him. It's not as if he had billionaire owners giving him all the money he wanted with no major off field issues is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Souness had to sort of build a team again though without the money and also not being very good at it. A list of Liverpool players from that time is emabrassing, man Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Souness had plenty to spend. He spent 18m in the early 90s, quite a lot of money back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 So people blaming Kenny for GS not being good at spending money? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Souness did better interviews. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Souness had plenty to spend. He spent 18m in the early 90s, quite a lot of money back then. Well, he kind of was entrusted with building a new team and failed miserably, that was the problem Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
why? Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Bit silly to be so scathing of Dalglish first time around. Easy to pick up on the mistake of letting the team age whilst totally forgetting the trauma the club had and was still going through post Hillsborough. It was a totally unique moment in history when many factors combined to bring about the end of our reign at the top. An ageing squad, Hillsborough, Man Utd finding their way again, the Premier League being formed, the club being in the dark ages commercially. Daft pinning the lion's share of the blame on Kenny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudester Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 God is training with Blackpool hoping for a deal till of the season. Make it happen Holloway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Souness did better interviews. He really, really didn't. In fact he only apologised for an interview he did when in charge a few months back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Rafa possibly going to Chelsea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Last time I checked, they already had a manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Majority of people still want Kenny gone in the summer, or willing to give him another transfer window and season depending on how the rest of our season goes? What's the minimum people are now expecting with regards to the FA Cup, League position, and level of performance? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Last time I checked, they already had a manager. Like that makes a difference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 Majority of people still want Kenny gone in the summer, or willing to give him another transfer window and season depending on how the rest of our season goes?What's the minimum people are now expecting with regards to the FA Cup, League position, and level of performance? Not fussed about the FA Cup - so much of that depends on results and draws beyond our control. League? 4th. Anything less would be a failure. There's no reason at all why our run-in shouldn't be far more successful than the start of the season. Performances? Would expect massive improvement, and the inability to kill off lesser teams must disappear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted March 1, 2012 Share Posted March 1, 2012 The fact that Rafa is still there ready available and willing is doing for Kenny atm. All things considered he hasn't done that a bad job with us, its just frustrating knowing theres someone out there who would walk back into the club at the drop of a hat who could quite clearly do better. In an ideal world I'd like Kenny to step down at the end of the season and Rafa back. I don't think it'll happen though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Your U18s are up at Boro on saturday noon kick off, i will be tweeting from the game with updates and what not. We dont do team sheets so i will do my best to get the LFC line up and im as unboas as possible @boroyouths Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powlay Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yes, Middlesbrough. Thats all up in the air thanks to a sky employee breaking it before the cup final and then putting it all into doubt. Wages are also an issue as not is the gerrard injury Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daaaaave Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 The fact that Rafa is still there ready available and willing is doing for Kenny atm. All things considered he hasn't done that a bad job with us, its just frustrating knowing theres someone out there who would walk back into the club at the drop of a hat who could quite clearly do better.In an ideal world I'd like Kenny to step down at the end of the season and Rafa back. I don't think it'll happen though. if I was certain rafa could work well with comolli, I'd give this an unqualified +1. rafa has shown to be a little inflexible when it comes to team collaboration and I don't think we can compete the way we want to if it comes down completely to the team building ideas of a single man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 the romantic in me would like to see rafa back. but i think people forget that even in the season we came 2nd, he wasn't exactly loved by all. there was already a sizeable portion of fans wanting him out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Yeah but they were in the main the same people who said Lucas was rubbish, Carra was the greatest player in the world eva and English players are fantastic and we need more of them to win the league............................ so their opinions don't count Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Some people cannot see a priest on a mountain of sugar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Liverpool's director of football Damien Comolli insists he is not expecting the club to spend massively this summer. http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11669/7558595/Reds-won-t-spend-big Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Majority of people still want Kenny gone in the summer, or willing to give him another transfer window and season depending on how the rest of our season goes?What's the minimum people are now expecting with regards to the FA Cup, League position, and level of performance? He deserves at least one more season. I wasn't really expecting 4th at the start of the season. You can't expect such a drastic turn around so quickly. Top 6 I would take, 7th would be dissapointing. And I would love us to win the FA Cup! the romantic in me would like to see rafa back.but i think people forget that even in the season we came 2nd, he wasn't exactly loved by all. there was already a sizeable portion of fans wanting him out. I literally never met one person who wanted Rafa out the season we finished 2nd. If anybody did then they are a prize idiot. The football we played that season was superb and we were a major force in Europe. I'd love Rafa back after Kenny. I even like Rafa more than Kenny as Rafa is my all time favourite person connected with the club in my lifetime. But we have to show Kenny the respect he deserves. He's done well and is Liverpool through and through and second only to Shankly in legendary status. Give him time and see what he can do. If it doesn't work out in a few years time say thank you and move on. I was still very bitter about Rafa not being here until recently. But now i have realised he isn't and if I start calling for Kenny's head for the want of Rafa then I'm not better than the idiots who were calling for Rafa's head in his final season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 i think i've said it in this thread before but it was only the last part of the season when we started playing good football. almost when it was do or die. for what it's worth, i wasn't one of those people calling for his head. but grumblings had already started. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divinity Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Except Kenny isn't remotely working under the same conditions Rafa had. :/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 [TABLE=class: grid] [TR] [TD]Hodsgon[/TD] [TD]Kenny [/TD] [TD]Rafa [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Reina[/TD] [TD]Reina[/TD] [TD]Reina[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Konchesky[/TD] [TD]Enrique[/TD] [TD]Aurelio[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Carragher[/TD] [TD]Agger[/TD] [TD]Carragher[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Kyrgiakos[/TD] [TD]Skrtel[/TD] [TD]Hyypia[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Johnson[/TD] [TD]Johnson[/TD] [TD]Arbeloa[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lucas [/TD] [TD]Lucas[/TD] [TD]Mascherano[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Poulsen[/TD] [TD]Adam[/TD] [TD]Alonso[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Gerrard[/TD] [TD]Gerrard[/TD] [TD]Gerrard[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jovanovic[/TD] [TD]Downing[/TD] [TD]Babel[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cole [/TD] [TD]Henderson [/TD] [TD]Kuyt[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Torres[/TD] [TD]Suarez[/TD] [TD]Torres[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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