Silly Potential Ability!

I dont know about anyone else, but i have lost full interest in developing young talent! For the first time i have gone onto the FMRTE and looked at my current save, to see that every single player has a PA, but it is soo random. What i always thought was that a player with say -9 potential would stay like that until they were maybe 21, then given a PA, based on how they have been trained and developed up until then! Now i just have the feeling that players are just given a random PA (which seems to be low usually) as soon as you start a new game, then we are just their to get the best out of their PA, rather than developing them!

I dont know about anyone else, but i have lost full interest in developing young talent! For the first time i have gone onto the FMRTE and looked at my current save, to see that every single player has a PA, but it is soo random. What i always thought was that a player with say -9 potential would stay like that until they were maybe 21, then given a PA, based on how they have been trained and developed up until then! Now i just have the feeling that players are just given a random PA (which seems to be low usually) as soon as you start a new game, then we are just their to get the best out of their PA, rather than developing them!

How is "trying to get the best out of their potential ability" not the same as "developing them"?

The potential ability system has always been like this, whether or not it should be though has been discussed at length already.

A minus potential creates a random PA between fixed levels when the game is created - -9 for instance will give a PA between 170 & 200.

You develop a players CA, PA just represents the best the player can be.

You are using a tool to view data that is not supposed to be looked at, which is why it appears this way. The whole PA system only really works when you don't look at it.

A minus potential creates a random PA between fixed levels when the game is created - -9 for instance will give a PA between 170 & 200.

You develop a players CA, PA just represents the best the player can be.

Actually, -10 will give a PA between 170 & 200.

dafuge is bang on as usual. As long as you don't think about PA, everything seems normal, and that's the intended effect.

How is "trying to get the best out of their potential ability" not the same as "developing them"?

Because their potential ability is not down to how we develop them, its just absolutly random! Which i think shouldn't be the case.

Funny enough, i do actually regret looking at the FMRTE.

dafuge is bang on as usual. As long as you don't think about PA, everything seems normal, and that's the intended effect.

SCIAG <3's dafuge

Because their potential ability is not down to how we develop them, its just absolutly random! Which i think shouldn't be the case.

Funny enough, i do actually regret looking at the FMRTE.

FMRTE = Game breaker!

What should it be if it wasn't random?

dafuge is bang on as usual. As long as you don't think about PA, everything seems normal, and that's the intended effect.

With wonderkids, can the amount of PA that a scout can see--even one with 20/20 abilities--change? I have some 2 1/2 start wonderkids whose abilities exploded overnight and they seem more like 3 star players to me (not that the stars are a huge deal, just trying to understand.)

Because their potential ability is not down to how we develop them, its just absolutly random! Which i think shouldn't be the case.

Funny enough, i do actually regret looking at the FMRTE.

While their potential isn't down to how you develop them (and how could it be?), the level they actually reach is down to how you develop them.

With wonderkids, can the amount of PA that a scout can see--even one with 20/20 abilities--change? I have some 2 1/2 start wonderkids whose abilities exploded overnight and they seem more like 3 star players to me (not that the stars are a huge deal, just trying to understand.)

The stars are actually gotten by comparing the players to the ones you have currently (and I believe the potential stars are computed through natural progression, i.e. no train ing involved), so a top potential player could still have only 2 1/2 stars depending on how good your own players are. Incedentally I've seen my first 4 1/2 star potential player in this years game only in my current save.

FMRTE = Game breaker!

What should it be if it wasn't random?

It really is a game breaker.

The potential ability should be based on those crucial first few years of training and development.

While their potential isn't down to how you develop them (and how could it be?), the level they actually reach is down to how you develop them.

I have a player (Who could walk into alot prem sides currently IRL) with a -9 potential at the start of all games. In my save he's PA is 155, so this shows that even with world class training and match time, their appears to be no chance of him becoming a great player.

You are using a tool to view data that is not supposed to be looked at, which is why it appears this way. The whole PA system only really works when you don't look at it.

Yeah I remember the first time I found out about CA/PA. It felt like a little bit of FM had been taken away from me. Now I just pretend those numbers don't exist and rely purely on my scouts and my ability to look at and interpret their attributes.

SCIAG <3's dafuge

I don't know what "less than three" means, but if it means "respects", correct. Read my location

Because their potential ability is not down to how we develop them, its just absolutly random! Which i think shouldn't be the case.

Funny enough, i do actually regret looking at the FMRTE.

It isn't absolutely random. The PA is the best they can ever be, it isn't how good they will be. The increase in their CA is our development of a player.

With wonderkids, can the amount of PA that a scout can see--even one with 20/20 abilities--change? I have some 2 1/2 start wonderkids whose abilities exploded overnight and they seem more like 3 star players to me (not that the stars are a huge deal, just trying to understand.)

Stars are relative to CA and age. You'll often see "potential" "drop" on the player's birthday, because he's deemed a year older by the game. The player's PA is not dropping, but age does decrease the ability to reach the PA. The game is too robotic, but it doesn't really matter.

It's also relative to squad CA, as mentioned, so signing a big name player or letting your first choice in that position go will affect the "potential" of the player according to the coach.

I have a player (Who could walk into alot prem sides currently IRL) with a -9 potential at the start of all games. In my save he's PA is 155, so this shows that even with world class training and match time, their appears to be no chance of him becoming a great player.

Surely that like saying that if I had better training facitlities I could have made the step up to league football rather than the level 8 I got to?

Because their potential ability is not down to how we develop them, its just absolutly random! Which i think shouldn't be the case.

Funny enough, i do actually regret looking at the FMRTE.

potential ability is set.... its meant to be set... its taken that potential ability is a set value at birth of a player... and the challenge is to get the player to reach this potential..

if potential fluctuated as you train them.. all players would have the potential to be world beaters.... this isnt the case irl and isnt the case in game...

its a good system

I don't know what "less than three" means, but if it means "respects", correct. Read my location

It means love, it is a heart (just about)

It really is a game breaker.

The potential ability should be based on those crucial first few years of training and development.

I have a player (Who could walk into alot prem sides currently IRL) with a -9 potential at the start of all games. In my save he's PA is 155, so this shows that even with world class training and match time, their appears to be no chance of him becoming a great player.

A player's "potential" IRL isn't solely based on current ability, though, is it? A player has been training for 16 years before he comes into your squad. His potential is largely decided by this stage, though of course people may judge it incorrectly.

155 is a great player, though. 160 is deemed a key player at a top four side, so a 155 player with the CA distributed well could be a really good player.

If "the first few years of training" were taken, then every player could potentially turn into a world class player. Are you sure that's true?

I have a player (Who could walk into alot prem sides currently IRL) with a -9 potential at the start of all games. In my save he's PA is 155, so this shows that even with world class training and match time, their appears to be no chance of him becoming a great player.

So you're saying every single player in the world has the ability to be as good as anyone else if he plays in your first team and trains at your club?

I know what you mean, ive said this before, that the PA system seems to restricitive.

You've got a player, playing really well, training really well & yet he's stopped from going past a certain point because the game says so.

I said that the PA should be alot higher, so instead of saying a player could only reach 150 make it 170, whether he gets there or not, is another matter all together. How he plays/trains etc.

I know i signed this one youngster stats where good, he trained well but in matches he was amazing, bagging more goals than my main strikers or my more experienced att mid he compete for a starting place with & yet, my scout said he would never amount to anything special, because when i looked, his PA was only like 160 ish (cnt rem exactly) & im like, ya what, he's playing nearly as good as Gerrard/Messi/Kaka region.

So i'll admit it, i usually go straight into the editor & increase the PA off alot of players, not all of them make it, because after a certain age, they stop increasing as much but aleast the chance is there for them. (the CA is another thing i think could do with tweaking, in the game you could sign someone from the Championship for your premier team & ur told he's rubbish but in real-life, alot of players could make the jump up & do & in the next game, there CA jumps up to reflect that they are now in the Premier but in the game it doesnt, im not saying all players should have jumps in ability but i think it would be nice that maybe at the end of the season you get a msg frm your coach saying, player x had a really good season this year & we've noticed that he seems to have improve alot as a player.)

Surely that like saying that if I had better training facitlities I could have made the step up to league football rather than the level 8 I got to?

Have you got a potential of -9, have you played in te FA cup final, have you played regularly at championship level, only to have to clubs chasing after you?... If you have, then by all means you should have made the grade!

So you're saying every single player in the world has the ability to be as good as anyone else if he plays in your first team and trains at your club?

My point all players should still have the -10, -9 whatever, but depending on how hes trained and developing, that should give him his PA.

potential ability is set.... its meant to be set... its taken that potential ability is a set value at birth of a player... and the challenge is to get the player to reach this potential..

if potential fluctuated as you train them.. all players would have the potential to be world beaters.... this isnt the case irl and isnt the case in game...

its a good system

No, Potential should not change at all, but it should not be COMPLETLY random.

Do people understand where im coming from, and are SI looking into how things like this COULD be changed

?

No, Potential should not change at all, but it should not be COMPLETLY random.

Do people understand where im coming from, and are SI looking into how things like this COULD be changed

?

I think a lot of this comes down to a nature/nurture debate (are you born with your talent or do you develop it?) and it seems like SI made up their minds.

And in my opinion, the system doesn't need changing. Obviously your opinion swings the other way

Aaron Ramsey can turn into a quality player in game.

People complaining that a CA/PA of 155 is bad

Firstly, PA is NOT completely random. It's set by researchers. When there is a negative value set, that defines a range within which PA should be set.

Secondly, in real life, the development a player gets (in footballing terms) has no bearing whatsoever on his potential. You can only ever get a player as good as that player is inherently capable of being. The idea this figure should then change is, quite clearly, ludicrous. Otherwise, any player being taken to a better club effectively gets an automatic PA jump!

In real life, you get players that just don't develop, despite all the best attention (think about Jeffers or Cadamarteri). What you are complaining about is exactly that; players that you think should keep getting better, because they were progressing up to a point. Yet taken to it's logical conclusion, potential then becomes infinite, bounded only by the quality of the facilities, coaching etc. And that's just not true.

As others have said, the PA system is designed to provide an underlying mechanism that reflects reality. Whether you like it or not, it does this perfectly well. It's one of the few areas of the game where no change is needed (the actual development module itself is a different matter, but not for this discussion). The only real issue is, you cheated and looked at something you shouldn't have looked at, which has now thrown you off.

I think a lot of this comes down to a nature/nurture debate (are you born with your talent or do you develop it?) and it seems like SI made up their minds.

And in my opinion, the system doesn't need changing. Obviously your opinion swings the other way

I don't see a problem with it.

Nature/Born with talent = PA

Nurture/How you develop = CA

Will you reach your potential = dependant on facilities, coaches, opportunites & luck.

The arguments only occur when a good young player is reaches his potential early but in real life there are lots of examples of this happening so I don't see it as an issue.

Well if the club you are at thing was correct Phil Neville would have been better than Gary and Phil was younger and at the same club but never got as good as Gary. A lot of the youth at big clubs don't Make it in the top flight as they just don't have the natural ability.

Its a good system. I trained all my life to become a professional football player. And I achieved nothing my PA was just too low.

Have you got a potential of -9, have you played in te FA cup final, have you played regularly at championship level, only to have to clubs chasing after you?... If you have, then by all means you should have made the grade!

My point all players should still have the -10, -9 whatever, but depending on how hes trained and developing, that should give him his PA.

No, Potential should not change at all, but it should not be COMPLETLY random.

Do people understand where im coming from, and are SI looking into how things like this COULD be changed

?

its not completely random.. its set.... exactly how it should be..

and the negative potential system adds that unknown quality to certain players....

look at balotelli irl... right now .. he's looking like he'll be a world beater eventually when he matures and learns his trade... so potential would be high...

sulley muntari... great player... trains hard, played well, succeeded in his career..... and yet will never achieve the great heights that balotelli could potentially reach...

potential is set... training and facilities doesnt increase a players potential irl..... it only helps to reach it ...

again.... walcott has unlimited potential... it was there since he was a child... whether he reached it or not was the question... not whether he could train well to get the potential.. in his case, potential means he had the natural pace, fitness and build for his game..

changing it so i can bring any 15-16 year old from the BSP lower leagues and make him a world beater just isnt practical or realistic... even with some parameters it would spoil the game...

the system is perfect how it is in my book... and one of the area's where SI has excelled themselves and got it spot on

The problem with PA is that half the newgens' CA starts off too low to reach their maximum PA. It's not an issue with real players. I wouldn't say things are perfect as they are because of this.

Editors like FMRTE or scouts like GenieScout allow one to see that outfield players will only ever improve by around 70 CA points, and goalkeepers only by around 50.

So say you have a newgen with awesome potential (190 PA) but a CA of 80 to begin with. He will only reach around 150 CA, and it will take him many years to even get there.

It poses the question: how come he has that PA in the first place? If he can never achieve it? This is different to circumstances conspiring against the player (injuries, poor training facilities, terrible mental attributes etc). It is that he simply cannot achieve it.

I don't like this no matter what anyone says. When you also add in all the factors like pressure, professionalism etc, this accounts for the lack of quality players in long term games, as compared to the amount of quality real ones at the beginning.

Hi, I'm new to this game and new to this board and you guys seem to be having a good debate and I hate to digress a little bit but I have a question that seems pretty related to the issues you guys are discussing.

I understand that if you train guys well and get them playing time they will develop etc., but I'm wondering if they ever surpass what your scouts have said is their potential ability in current ability.

I'm playing as arsenal and I'm in my third season. Fabregas is 4.5 stars for me and I got Dzeko and Adler who are each 4 stars. I've been starting Ramsey for a while and he was going up a lot, but he's about to reach his potential (3 stars). As he's a wonderkid, I feel like he should have the chance to get better than three stars, so I'm wondering do they stop growing when they hit their potential? Isn't it a bit silly of Ramsey is capped at 3 stars?

Furthermore, I've been scouting a ton of players throughout my three seasons and i've found 1 player with potential 3.5 stars and none with any higher than that. I know there aren't that many world-class players in a generation, but it seems that there should be enough players with world class potential that I should have found at least 1 by now. In real life it seems that there are people born in every year who become world class players, and there probably are a bunch more who had the potential that didn't get it.

Basically, I'm wondering if I just find a bunch of 3 star potential players but really it's because my scouts aren't sure if they have 4 star potential and it's possible they could become 4 star players yet, or if they're actually all 3 star potential players.

I have a ton of transfer budget money so I could go after Aguero to play as an inside forward or something, but I wanted to find my own Aguero instead. It just seems impossible to do so if people with 3 star potential are truly capped at 3 stars.

To weigh in on the debates at hand, I think the disparity between CA and PA is sort of ridiculous especially because they don't seem capable of increasing that quickly.

When championship players jump to the pros their potentials shouldn't increase, rather it seems that they should just have had higher potentials to begin with (victor moses anyone?).

I appreciate any help!

Scout reports are matched against your current squad so if you find a 3* player he is approx equal to the players you have in your squad.

Scouts aren't perfect they do make mistakes which is part of the fun and stars can vary a little especially with younger players who are still developing.

Isn't it a bit silly of Ramsey is capped at 3 stars?

This is exactly whats been discussed earlier in the thread. Why should he carry on improving? Everyone has a ceiling they reach at some stage.

Also worth pointing out very few players should reach their full potential while currently in FM far too many do IMO.

It really is a game breaker.

The potential ability should be based on those crucial first few years of training and development.

But many people would argue the crucial years of development are between 8 and 13 and the youngest you can have a player on fm is 14 due to legal reasons.

Firstly, PA is NOT completely random. It's set by researchers. When there is a negative value set, that defines a range within which PA should be set.

Secondly, in real life, the development a player gets (in footballing terms) has no bearing whatsoever on his potential. You can only ever get a player as good as that player is inherently capable of being. The idea this figure should then change is, quite clearly, ludicrous. Otherwise, any player being taken to a better club effectively gets an automatic PA jump!

I will say it again, i completly agree that PA should not change at all, but if a player has been given the potential of -9, then you should be able to get that out of him, and not everytime you start the game he might have a different PA.

changing it so i can bring any 15-16 year old from the BSP lower leagues and make him a world beater just isnt practical or realistic... even with some parameters it would spoil the game...

If this player in the BSP has the -9 or -10 potential, then yes you should be able to bring him to your club and get the best out of him.

I dont know about anyone else, but i have lost full interest in developing young talent! For the first time i have gone onto the FMRTE and looked at my current save, to see that every single player has a PA, but it is soo random. What i always thought was that a player with say -9 potential would stay like that until they were maybe 21, then given a PA, based on how they have been trained and developed up until then! Now i just have the feeling that players are just given a random PA (which seems to be low usually) as soon as you start a new game, then we are just their to get the best out of their PA, rather than developing them!

I think you are confused what the word "potential" means.

Everyone's potential is fixed from conception.

You either fulfill potential or fail to reach your potential.

To "exceed your potential" is an oxymoron and therefore impossible.

But many people would argue the crucial years of development are between 8 and 13 and the youngest you can have a player on fm is 14 due to legal reasons.

Surley that's not true.

I will say it again, i completly agree that PA should not change at all, but if a player has been given the potential of -9, then you should be able to get that out of him, and not everytime you start the game he might have a different PA.

Adds a little randomness to the game when there are youngsters in RL who are still developing. The PA is given a fixed figure when you start the game and its only 20? 30? points at most different which is hardly the end of the world.

If this player in the BSP has the -9 or -10 potential, then yes you should be able to bring him to your club and get the best out of him.

Urm you can, where is the problem?

If this player in the BSP has the -9 or -10 potential, then yes you should be able to bring him to your club and get the best out of him.

You can do that I took a player at 18 years old from lower league Croatian team and turned him into a world class CM that won several world player of the year awards. I checked his PA when he was 25 years old and he had reached it he was 184 CA and 184 PA.

I will say it again, i completly agree that PA should not change at all, but if a player has been given the potential of -9, then you should be able to get that out of him, and not everytime you start the game he might have a different PA.

If this player in the BSP has the -9 or -10 potential, then yes you should be able to bring him to your club and get the best out of him.

i think you've completely confused what the - potentials actually are?

-9 sets the player to have a potential in a specific range ie

-10 = PA 170-200

-9 = 150-180

-8 = 130-160

-7 = 110-140

-6 = 90-120

-5 = 70-100

-4 = 50-80

-3 = 30-60

-2 = 10-40

-1 = 1-20

if a player is set as -9 he will always have a random pa (random from each game save) set between the range of 150 to 180....

i dont get what your issue is ?

You can have a player, aged 17, with a PA of 200 and have him in the BSP.

Chances are, he may never get above 100-110 CA because you are in the BSP. Your coaches suck, you can't hire more than 2-3 unless you're lucky, the opposition you play sucks and chances are he may never earn a call-up to even his nation's u19 side.

I know this because I created a game with a BSS side and gave myself a 15 year old with a PA of 200. When he was finally 26, guess what his CA was? 103, I think. He was good at this level but never achieved his potential because I couldn't get past L2 with the club (although I could have made 250k off him at one point).

More goes into how a player develops than his damn PA.. People need to realize that.

How can a player get as good as Rooney if he's playing York and Salisbury week in, week out? Or even Macclesfield and Lincoln. Or even Bristol Rovers and Hereford. Etc.

People need to realize much more goes into a player than what his PA is set as. And if it frustrates you that much, download FMRTE and edit your game so you can be happy.

I've done a lot of experiments with PA and how youth players develop, having been recently trying to build a successful and talented all home grown and club-raised side (which is difficult). I have to say, though, that I am happy with the way SI does things and think that the way my players turned out is fair. I think bringing up youth talent is one of the best parts of the game (and not for the weak, impatient or power-gaming type) and I commend SI on their regen (aka Fred) system.

Hi, I'm new to this game and new to this board and you guys seem to be having a good debate and I hate to digress a little bit but I have a question that seems pretty related to the issues you guys are discussing.

I understand that if you train guys well and get them playing time they will develop etc., but I'm wondering if they ever surpass what your scouts have said is their potential ability in current ability.

I'm playing as arsenal and I'm in my third season. Fabregas is 4.5 stars for me and I got Dzeko and Adler who are each 4 stars. I've been starting Ramsey for a while and he was going up a lot, but he's about to reach his potential (3 stars). As he's a wonderkid, I feel like he should have the chance to get better than three stars, so I'm wondering do they stop growing when they hit their potential? Isn't it a bit silly of Ramsey is capped at 3 stars?

Furthermore, I've been scouting a ton of players throughout my three seasons and i've found 1 player with potential 3.5 stars and none with any higher than that. I know there aren't that many world-class players in a generation, but it seems that there should be enough players with world class potential that I should have found at least 1 by now. In real life it seems that there are people born in every year who become world class players, and there probably are a bunch more who had the potential that didn't get it.

Basically, I'm wondering if I just find a bunch of 3 star potential players but really it's because my scouts aren't sure if they have 4 star potential and it's possible they could become 4 star players yet, or if they're actually all 3 star potential players.

I have a ton of transfer budget money so I could go after Aguero to play as an inside forward or something, but I wanted to find my own Aguero instead. It just seems impossible to do so if people with 3 star potential are truly capped at 3 stars.

To weigh in on the debates at hand, I think the disparity between CA and PA is sort of ridiculous especially because they don't seem capable of increasing that quickly.

When championship players jump to the pros their potentials shouldn't increase, rather it seems that they should just have had higher potentials to begin with (victor moses anyone?).

I appreciate any help!

to answer your queries fully...

scout reports arent always accurate...

their accuracy is determined by the talent of your scout.. ie his scouting stats... which include judging player ability and potential and others like determination etc

also.. adding to this... your scout judges ramsey compared to the other players in your squad... therefore... in theory... if you had 3.5 stars off the scout while at arsenal. If you take the same scout to say, bolton , the scout will judge ramsey's potential and ability much higher as he's judging compared the boltons other midfielders...

so all in all... take it as .. dont trust your scouts completely... take it with a healthy skepticism and use the reports to help make your own judgement...

in ramsey's case... he is a great understudy to fabregas and becomes a superb player easily a top 4 team player..

On the other point about potentials..

potential NEVER changes within a save... players potential is set..

so moses coming from championship to prem isnt going to increase his potential ability...

his PA might be changed in the new patch because he's shown he can step up and the new researcher may judge moses to have a bigger potential then the last researcher who judged him... which in my book , is accurate..

as for the abilities not increasing that quickly... as has been mentioned... PA never changes... but CA on the other hand changes pretty rapidly.. a player's CA changes from game to game if you check it and you can get huge jumps when trained correctly and if played right..

You can have a player, aged 17, with a PA of 200 and have him in the BSP.

Chances are, he may never get above 100-110 CA because you are in the BSP. Your coaches suck, you can't hire more than 2-3 unless you're lucky, the opposition you play sucks and chances are he may never earn a call-up to even his nation's u19 side.

I know this because I created a game with a BSS side and gave myself a 15 year old with a PA of 200. When he was finally 26, guess what his CA was? 103, I think. He was good at this level but never achieved his potential because I couldn't get past L2 with the club (although I could have made 250k off him at one point).

More goes into how a player develops than his damn PA.. People need to realize that.

How can a player get as good as Rooney if he's playing York and Salisbury week in, week out? Or even Macclesfield and Lincoln. Or even Bristol Rovers and Hereford. Etc.

People need to realize much more goes into a player than what his PA is set as. And if it frustrates you that much, download FMRTE and edit your game so you can be happy.

I've done a lot of experiments with PA and how youth players develop, having been recently trying to build a successful and talented all home grown and club-raised side (which is difficult). I have to say, though, that I am happy with the way SI does things and think that the way my players turned out is fair. I think bringing up youth talent is one of the best parts of the game (and not for the weak, impatient or power-gaming type) and I commend SI on their regen (aka Fred) system.

agree with everything apart from the regen system.... its ridiculously flawed...

by season 3 , any real world players I may have are pretty much redundant as i can pick up a regen for 100k who has the stats of kaka or ronaldo ..... the regen system needs to be toned down .. or at least give us the ability to tone it down..

Frankly all the PAs should be in terms of range and never a fixed attribute. Player A starts and ends his career in Man U his PA will be much higher than if Player A start in League 2 and got constantly injured and never started his PA no matter what would come down a certain amount. Might still have great potential but its impossible to say it would be the same at Man U. There is and should be a range certain players get to.

The CA does change a bit in the game due to injury by like 5-10 points but players like Michael Owen will never go back to their old potential or even old CA.

I think a pretty example for having a range is players like Carlton Cole and Jermaine Defoe. Everyone thought they were just some run of the mill English player until one day BAM. Carlton Cole and Jermaine Defoe were all under a glass ceiling per say most of their careers until something happened in their lives which made them up their play and break that glass ceiling.

In other words some players might only react a "soft PA" because they spend their entire lives jumping around clubs and or never have the right hand around their shoulder (Glen Johnson) or spend their careers at clubs with bad facilities, lets say Glen Johnson. But then along comes a Redknapp or the player finally moves to a big club with a manager who really works with him, he can get that extra push to break the "soft PA" or glass ceiling and make it to the hard ceiling or "hard PA".

Under the current system I can have Mourinho, Wenger and Ferguson manage the same player and get the same results as if lower league manager would because there is a hard PA cap. Now I'm not saying everyone should or would break the "soft PA" if they go to Inter/Chels, Arsenal or Man U but what I'm saying is some managers work very well with players and get that extra something out of them like Redknapp with Glen Johnson at Portsmouth which is by no means a Man U, Inter/Chels or Arsenal.

Either have a varying PA or have a "soft PA" and "hard PA".

Cherno Samba.

But surely a potential can't change? The PA is the highest possible potential ability a player can have. If he mucks about injured in league 2 his CA won't rise much, which will cause him to not be able to reach his potential. His potential does not have to change because of that since it's already reflected in the low CA that he will not reach it.

Frankly all the PAs should be in terms of range and never a fixed attribute. Player A starts and ends his career in Man U his PA will be much higher than if Player A start in League 2 and got constantly injured and never started his PA no matter what would come down a certain amount. Might still have great potential but its impossible to say it would be the same at Man U. There is and should be a range certain players get to.

The CA does change a bit in the game due to injury by like 5-10 points but players like Michael Owen will never go back to their old potential or even old CA.

I think a pretty example for having a range is players like Carlton Cole and Jermaine Defoe. Everyone thought they were just some run of the mill English player until one day BAM. Carlton Cole and Jermaine Defoe were all under a glass ceiling per say most of their careers until something happened in their lives which made them up their play and break that glass ceiling.

In other words some players might only react a "soft PA" because they spend their entire lives jumping around clubs and or never have the right hand around their shoulder (Glen Johnson) or spend their careers at clubs with bad facilities, lets say Glen Johnson. But then along comes a Redknapp or the player finally moves to a big club with a manager who really works with him, he can get that extra push to break the "soft PA" or glass ceiling and make it to the hard ceiling or "hard PA".

Under the current system I can have Mourinho, Wenger and Ferguson manage the same player and get the same results as if lower league manager would because there is a hard PA cap. Now I'm not saying everyone should or would break the "soft PA" if they go to Inter/Chels, Arsenal or Man U but what I'm saying is some managers work very well with players and get that extra something out of them like Redknapp with Glen Johnson at Portsmouth which is by no means a Man U, Inter/Chels or Arsenal.

Either have a varying PA or have a "soft PA" and "hard PA".

Of course a player who starts his career at Man U as opposed to Macclesfield is going to have a higher PA. First of all, Manchester United have an academy that attracts players from all over the world (Macheda, for example, who is a perfect example and a future star), and not only that, they also have world class coaches who make a HUGE difference on a player's development in the game (not to mention the reserve fixtures that Man U players face are more competitive than League 2 which gives the player better experience anyways). And once again, you said Portsmouth, who have been a Premier club for years now and are not a League 2 club so obviously their youth players are going to be better than say Dag & Red's. And as was shown, a PA of -9 is a range and not a "fixed" attribute.

And yes, there is the odd player who comes through a League 2 club and does well -- I also think this is accurately depicted in the game as I have had a player leave my BSP to play for Millwall and then move up to QPR and he's now featuring for his international u21 side (Ireland), and he's drawing interest from Sunderland and Blackburn Rovers now. He could be a future star.

I don't see what the problem is?

Many players who start out at Chelsea and Man Utd end up playing for clubs like York and Barnet anyways, it's very rare (as it is in real life) that a player becomes a star. But as I've seen players move from Crusaders (in N. Ireland) to Premiership clubs just like in real life we've seen players from obscure clubs move to large clubs and garner affection and observation from Premiership clubs (let's say Jermaine Beckford in this instance moving from non-league Wealdstone to Leeds and having clubs like Bolton and Newcastle interested in him).

I've also sold my best goalscorers to clubs where they've made no impact because the AI of the manager doesn't know how to use them, and vice verse. Like Jamie Guy signing for my BSP club and scoring 28 goals in a season then moving to Lincoln where he scores five in 28 appearances.

Edit: Also, look at players like Daniel Fox who were not too long ago playing for Walsall and have now represented Scotland as well as being a hit at Celtic and then going on to play for Burnley in the Premier League. While the game isn't perfect, I do feel this is represented in the game accurately and youth players are very random, they can be hit or miss and even if their PA is set high, it doesn't change the coaching they are introduced to and the gameplay they experience. Also, I think the game accurately depicts that players can be run of the mill squad players or be destined for greatness. Even some of the greatest prospects in English football have gone down as duds simply because they lack the opportunity, the chances, or the work etiquette and determination to make it on a broader stage.

Surley that's not true.

It is, professional coaches will always say those are the key years for a players development, obviously it takes a lot more hard work after that to reach the heights of football but those are the years that players are developing at a rapid rate so the coaching they receive in that time is crucial. After that you can roughly tell how good a player can actually be its just up to them and their future coaches to help them get there.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in the whole PA/CA thing, form has a lot to do with it too, if a player is playing well and scoring goals what does it matter what his PA is? ime sure if you looked at some of the players with the best average rating or most goals in your game you would find many with a PA of less than 150 and also a lot with more than 150 that arn't playing so well.