SI Skip FM10

My personal opinion is that SI should skip a FM10 version and take the next year or so developing a bug free FM11 to avoid any problems like 09. I dont believe that skipping 10 will be such a huge loss for SI as most people will just be getting into a bug free 09 by that time. The point im trying to make is the next FM has to be something special because the damage done by 09 has caused significant decreases in the fanbase, fans dont want to have to download patch after patch of fixes and if a bug free release day FM11 was available then im sure that fans of the game will go crazy for it. I understand that lots at bugs are hard to find but the major ones should be fixed before release.

SI you guys do a great job but next one could make or break the series after 09 so please take your time, develop something you can be proud of and not something that causes more headaches than you deserve.

Thanks

Silly idea. Im sure SI have learnt from this release and with regards with the fanbase, i dont think this has been damaged significantly and the sales figures will prove that.

But im not totally disagreing, i completely agree that im getting a bit tired of paying full whack for unfinished games, but the recruitment drive for new testers should make a difference.

Grimoz, I couldn't agree more. For me, the simple fact is that attempting to continue to better a game such as FM, by the same margin, and include originality, year after year after year, without fail, will eventually fall foul of the FIFA, and PES models. Taking time out to look at things afresh is always good, and at the risk of sounding a slight cynic, gives customers the impression that the developers are have not turned into a bunch of monopolistic and moneyhunting corporate puppets. Customers are then shown that some people still do attempt to put out a "best of breed" product without simply resampling a few old ideas and repackaging year on year in order to make a sales quota.

Grimoz, I couldn't agree more. For me, the simple fact is that attempting to continue to better a game such as FM, by the same margin, and include originality, year after year after year, without fail, will eventually fall foul of the FIFA, and PES models. Taking time out to look at things afresh is always good, and at the risk of sounding a slight cynic, gives customers the impression that the developers are have not turned into a bunch of monopolistic and moneyhunting corporate puppets. Customers are then shown that some people still do attempt to put out a "best of breed" product without simply resampling a few old ideas and repackaging year on year in order to make a sales quota.

Exactly my point, customers will appreciate it if more effort was put in, there is only so much improvement that can be made over the period of one year so why not take two to develop something special.

Silly idea. Im sure SI have learnt from this release and with regards with the fanbase, i dont think this has been damaged significantly and the sales figures will prove that.

But im not totally disagreing, i completely agree that im getting a bit tired of paying full whack for unfinished games, but the recruitment drive for new testers should make a difference.

When players are saying that they prefer 07 and 08 to 09 that should be a hint that a overhaul is needed and more effort is required. Dont get me wrong because I have no doubt that SI work their butts off to provide us with the best possible game but they should take the time required to make the best possible product, not just rehashing the same game year after year with minor improvements, I love FM09 but it doesnt seem all that different to 07 and 08. As I stated, im sure fans wouldnt be upset if 10 was skipped in favour of 11 with less bugs and more improvements as at the moment people will be expecting 10 to follow the trend and be very similar to 09.

What if I still prefer CM 01/02?

What if I still prefer CM 01/02?

Ha ha ha, great game, great memories!!!!! If you prefer CM 01/02 then you wouldnt be the first buddy.

Grimoz

Fully agree. Either SI skip FM2010 or we should

Miles J. made it clear - SI/SEGA have decided to follow "mainstream" rather than "hardcore", so there is no point of starting this topic again, as it will be flooded with Matt's brown-nosed apprentices or closed anyway...

I dont mind the bugs in the game, provided that they get patched. Nor do I mind SI using us as a huge beta test (I do mean that) The problem to me is that the ME is still not working and the new 3D thing is awfull. SI are at least two years from being able to implement this 3D in a non laughable way. LMA 2004 had a better 3D representation.

One thing wrong with this idea....

These people (Game developers) dont learn from their lessons, they dont care about the fans, they dont care if they release a bug ridden game, they dont care how long it takes to fix the bugs, they dont care how amateur the testing is.....

But what they do care about is the money!!!!!!!!!!

Personally Iam sick & tired of throwing good, hard earned money at computer games that should never, EVER have been released with so many bugs. Nearly every game that comes out now has numerous bugs... When I bought a car with problems I took it back and told them to fix it or replace it.... I bought a pack of faulty DVD's which were returned and replaced with working ones.... and yes, you can claim that SI are fixing the problems, in time Iam sure most issues will be solved, but if you bought a TV and it didnt work properly, would you sit in front if someone said "I can fix it by 14th Feb..."? No...you would demand a working copy.

But the point is, until software developers get a major kick in the a$$, we will continue to buy their faulty, inferior products.... We have the power, we have the money they want....until we stand up to these developers who get away with unethical practises....they wont learn from their mistakes.

No wonder pirates do what they do......

Vote with your wallet. No one's telling you you can't. No need to create drama over it, just skip it. No need to announce it.

Wow this topic's worse than a Nirvana concert, but to be fair that's mostly the above post (sharkie not 4457) rather than the OP.

I think we'll see FM10 and I don't think it'll be a massive change, then again I could be wrong. We've been on CM4 for a while though, I suppose once 3D is ironed out we could (maybe?) hope for a new version, something radically new... but the radically new usually sucks overall first time round anyway... remember CM4?

I think part of the problem for FM is the market - even with 3d what we're essentially getting is seasonal updates on CM4 with about enough new features each time to call it a new game, but if they didn't release a new one for each season they'd be quickly lagging behind EA and losing interest from people who aren't so much fans of the series as fans of getting into the football season each year... and to be fair it's probably those fans that make the hard sales.

I'd personally like to know there's an FM5 in the works, something really new but we're never gonna get a bug free game of this kind... it's just not possible cos of the nature of it - with a thousand testers they'd only see a tiny portion of what can happen in the game and as it's open ended new scenarios will be opening up in almost every game played. That doesn't excuse some of the more blatant bugs but still.

LMA 2004 had a better 3D representation.

I agree LMA has always been the best for 3D match engines, but it seriously had many flaws, especially the ball being kicked out all the time.

I did however enjoy the dugout view.

I used to be a tester on previous FM's (Sydney666) and they (SI) did do a pretty good job of testing back then, however I only experienced patch testing, not pre-release testing.

In my opinion, FM isnt really like other stand alone games that gets released every few years, its more like an MMO (and im not talking about FM live) where it constantly evolves. Instead of monthly fees, we end up paying 60-90 bucks every october/november.

Anyway as stated, I purchased FM for the 1st time in 2 years. I was extreemly dissapointed with last few years releases that always seemed virtually identical. I played them, either BETA or at a friends place and never liked the added features. This year i was suckered into the 3D engine, which was said to have been "highly tested in FM Live" - but apparently that wasnt the case!

I cant imagine where you would have got that idea from tbh.

Anyway, we wont be skipping FM2010.

Hmmm...for last few years, the usual line on these forums about next version was "We haven't announced anything, so it isn't certain that there will be a next FM" So from your post - FM2010 is officially announced \o/

But to seriously add to this discussion... I must be absolutely blind or uncritical or totally brown-nosed, but I'm enjoying this FM like crazy... There are some bugs, but they don't keep me from thinging about potential signings of drawing up ideas for new tactics while I'm at work - the typical FM feeling...

use your brains dude...no game is bugs free nor any programmes are perfect, you alway need a patch for everything...we can only say SI did a poor job getting the game more user friendsly thats all...

FM09 is not so bugged that SI need another year to de-bug it, and the OP's suggestion to skip FM10 is preposterous. For a start the money men wouldn't allow it (Sega, that is) and also that the game is damn good and has probably made as much money, if not more, than previous versions.

Read around the internet. The majority of reviews are highly favorable, in fact I didn't find one that gave the game less than a 70% (converted from whatever scoring system a review has) score, and that was at release when it was probably a damn sight more bugged than it is after patch 9.2.0.

FM09 with patch 9.2.0 is a crackingly good game. Now go play it and stop whining/making stupid suggestions.

I don't get why people think skipping a version will mean a bug free game :confused:

The way I understand it, and I could be wrong, is that SI don't start with a clean slate as such as they build and improve upon their previous work. I'm think CM4 was the last game they did from scratch. FM09 has had some major alterations because of the 3D match engine. Sure it's not perfect but it will be refined over the next ten or eleven months or so with new features added to the formula.

SI went from CM4 to the much more impressive CM Season 03/04 in around eight months so I sure a year is more than enough for FM10 to be a big enough improvement.

FM05 would be the last game from scratch, wouldn't it? Not CM4.

I don't get why people think skipping a version will mean a bug free game :confused:

I dont either.

4457 I'm pretty sure SI owned the code so I don't think FM05 wasn't written completely from scratch (I could be wrong of course). It's probably the reason CM5 looked or played nothing like any of the previous CM games.

I don't get why people think skipping a version will mean a bug free game :confused:

Neither Do I

Yeah great idea lets skip.So wot do we play next year fifa manager or lma no thanks patches are good enough for me;)

FM05 would be the last game from scratch, wouldn't it? Not CM4.

Part from the code I believe, as CM got well...the name.

Would a public beta for FM2010 make sense? Allow a couple of hundred people to play the game a month or two before launch and pass bug reports back to SI. You could time limit it so the Beta stops working after a couple of months and use Stream and Activation to stop any piracy.

Cheers

Onkster

Would a public beta for FM2010 make sense? Allow a couple of hundred people to play the game a month or two before launch and pass bug reports back to SI. You could time limit it so the Beta stops working after a couple of months and use Stream and Activation to stop any piracy.

Cheers

Onkster

Stream as in like streaming a movie? lol

But this seems a better idea then trusting some of the FM testers

SI skipping a year is ludicrous...

1st Sega wont allow it

2nd hardcore fans of the game will not allow it as they expect every year a new version

now the game was bugged but not unplayable. i have a nice save from 9.01 which i have continued even after the patch. i am still impressed.

match engine - it still needs work but it has improved a lot. i still swear quite a bit to my players for things that should have been fixed in the ME

P.S. Si did a few years back a Beta testing inviting loads of users. this ended up in a disaster because some idiot leaked the beta version

And 3 , its a business. They need money to continue development and pay their salaries.

i think he meant steam aiston:thup:

a public beta would be a good idea, make all those that moan about the bugs help get rid of them

personally i love fm09, the 3d is what ive been waiting for years for.

there are some bugs still in the game like the goalies have magnets for balls that land 7 or 8 feet away from them on the left side, and the goalies catch the ball out of his area without getting booked quite a lot.

but hey im happy with the games match engine and the game itself.

Stupid idea - As previous post states, its a business - businesses need money. No FM10 = NO MONEY!!!

FM10 needs more testing though for sure - FM09 has been a real let down.

Grimoz

Fully agree. Either SI skip FM2010 or we should

Miles J. made it clear - SI/SEGA have decided to follow "mainstream" rather than "hardcore", so there is no point of starting this topic again, as it will be flooded with Matt's brown-nosed apprentices or closed anyway...

Not sure where to start on that one - too much (innaccurate) speculation.

For what it's worth you're welcome to the thread, but I'd suggest PaulC has provided you with an answer.

Would a public beta for FM2010 make sense? Allow a couple of hundred people to play the game a month or two before launch and pass bug reports back to SI. You could time limit it so the Beta stops working after a couple of months and use Stream and Activation to stop any piracy.

Cheers

Onkster

The game is released to a public testing team each year.

FM09 a real let down?

Maybe I'm just lucky but the game is working brilliantly for me; no activation issues; no noticeable bugs now I'm patched to 9.2; the ME is great from what I'm seeing; seriously, I'm having great fun with FM09.

But like I said; maybe I'm just lucky.

FM11 will take two years from now to program and test. Not releasing FM10 in the middle of those two years doesn't alter that fact. Unless you're thinking that SI should release FM10 as FM11 and go into the market with a game that is a year behind the opposition...

My personal opinion is that SI should skip a FM10 version and take the next year or so developing a bug free FM11 to avoid any problems like 09. I dont believe that skipping 10 will be such a huge loss for SI as most people will just be getting into a bug free 09 by that time. The point im trying to make is the next FM has to be something special because the damage done by 09 has caused significant decreases in the fanbase.

Thanks

Surely that hat would be financial suicide for SI to do this in the present financial situation.

It would be interesting though to see how much further they could improve the game by having an extra year of developing. It could only go two ways though :

#1. FM '11 wouldn't be much different in terms of features and gameplay that has been occurring for the last few years with each release, and SI would take huge criticism for this and would be more damaging for them, added with a few major bugs on release.

#2. FM '11 would be the new evolution that we have been waiting for ! An amazing new training module, much more realistic match engine, super a.i., more player/coach interaction, more meaningful features etc ... overall a much more engaging game, albeit with tons of major bugs on release, some corrected with a patch on release day.

I think the majority would guess FM '11 would turn out to be #1, basing it on the complexity of the game, the incompetence of the beta testing etc, and the limitation of current hardware.

Gaming as a whole is becoming stale because the developers can't push on due to the restriction of the current hardware etc.

FM09 a real let down?

Maybe I'm just lucky but the game is working brilliantly for me; no activation issues; no noticeable bugs now I'm patched to 9.2; the ME is great from what I'm seeing; seriously, I'm having great fun with FM09.

But like I said; maybe I'm just lucky.

same for me.. apart from a few silly niggles here and there the game works great, and i'm fully enjoying it.

i don't understand these people that seem on the verge of jumping off a bridge because the game is "totaly unplayable" - is it heck.

90% of the moaners are only moaning because they aren't winning every game 10-0 anyway!

I do not think SI need to skip FM10, whatsoever. It's not that they need more time to remove some of the more routine errors we see in FM each year, they need a different plan of attack. No doubt they've got a whole host of things they'd like to put into operation. Lets hope some of these plans see the light of day. We would all (including SI I'm sure) like to see a stronger initial product release each year. As for activation issues, I wont even go there.

FM could do with improving its ease of access. I hate to think how many people are utterly confused by its interface/help system. Once you get into FM and understand what its all about the game can be great fun. I'd imagine a lot of people do not reach that point and I see that as a shame. I'm sure sales could be increased.

Some leave the series for they tire of the tide of bugs every year. It is extremely frustrating and I hope that aspect is sorted. I know I have, at times, become exasperated with some of the errors. Maybe the recruitment drive will help things. Hopefully it wont just amount to inexperienced testers for they also need strong reinforcements and that means experience - with that goes a little more expense!

I'm enjoying FM09, perhaps not as much as FM07, but it still holds my attention. For how long the series will remain at the top I do not know, depends on SI's plans

By the time FM10 comes out we'll have the third patch for 09 (I'd imagine). Therefore I won't have felt I'll have had so called complete game for very long before the next one comes out. I'm not sure I would like to go through the whole reporting bugs and awaiting fixes routine next year That was one of the reasons I skipped 08.

When a game sells hundrends of thousands of copies year in-year out, it would be plain stupidity to skip a years release. As a matter of fact, fm2008 sold more than 1mil copies, IIRC, so apparently there are many people who like the game.

We have the oportunity to play the demo some time before its official release (so I didn't buy fm2008, as I hated the demo and ordered this years version-but AFTER I read the feedback about 9.2.0), and make up our minds if we'll be buying it or not.

recruiting testers alone isn't going to solve the problem, i would expect that the coding team needs improvement as well.

As it stands now FM09 is by far better than any of the series.

The problem with FM09 was NOT the game itself, the new ME and UI are excellent and it is the ME that got fine tuned from FML.

The problem with FM09 was the activation and that has already been explained and SI were quite unfortunate being hit by an attack.

There are NO ground breaking bugs from the game on release and with 2 patches and a third one coming FM09 is by far an excellent Football game.

I think that 95%+ of those who have bought the game are playing it very merrily so there is no need for SI to skip FM10.

They will, I'm sure, learn from the activation issue and proceed with a better plan for FM10.

FM10 will be better that FM09 for sure.

As it stands now FM09 is by far better than any of the series.

The problem with FM09 was NOT the game itself, the new ME and UI are excellent and it is the ME that got fine tuned from FML.

The problem with FM09 was the activation and that has already been explained and SI were quite unfortunate being hit by an attack.

There are NO ground breaking bugs from the game on release and with 2 patches and a third one coming FM09 is by far an excellent Football game.

I think that 95%+ of those who have bought the game are playing it very merrily so there is no need for SI to skip FM10.

They will, I'm sure, learn from the activation issue and proceed with a better plan for FM10.

FM10 will be better that FM09 for sure.

july 24 begs to differ about 'no ground breaking bugs', and i think the bojan / regen talent transfer issues:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=84121 plus the general transfer 'code' with you can name your price to the big teams with £ for average players ruins gameplay a bit too.

There are NO ground breaking bugs from the game on release

The game was so bugged on release that they had to do a release day patch just to cover up the embarassment.

9.0.1 still had game breaking bugs such as Serie C, and all the technical issues people have been having with getting the game to run.

No wonder pirates do what they do......

Stop dreaming. Pirates do what they do because they are too cheap to pay for things, not because they can't afford it. Pirates don't buy games/films/music regardless how good or crap they are.

SI (or no other company) will skip a profitable product. If a customer feels like there is not enough improvement in one year then they can always skip one, SI wont accuse you. I personally believe the 3D will be in much better shape next year and that is already enough value to buy 10. This being said we wont complain if we get even more improvements.

I don't mind admitting that I didn't like FM09 at all at first (and I had none of the activation problems). However, once I took a little bit of time with just a few tactics, I was able to get into it and am now loving the Luton challenge I'm doing. I just had to give it time.

I agree with Nomis too, that skipping a year doesn't mean a 100% bug-free release. Oh, and for what it's worth, it depends what your definition of a "bug" is. I define "bug" as faulty code, but many people thought the high number of injuries allegedly in the pre-patched version of FM09 was a bug - I would call that a data problem (fwiw I think there are too few injuries in 9.2.0).

As PaulC said, FM10 will be here next year, and expect it to really build upon a game which, save for the activation/installation problems was/would have been a very strong release.

As PaulC said, FM10 will be here next year, and expect it to really build upon a game which, save for the activation/installation problems was/would have been a very strong release.

Strong as in it sold a lot, or strong as in good quality out of the box?

Skip FM10........speak for yourself.......could be the stupidest idea of 2009.

I love FM09 but it doesnt seem all that different to 07 and 08. As I stated, im sure fans wouldnt be upset if 10 was skipped in favour of 11 with less bugs and more improvements as at the moment people will be expecting 10 to follow the trend and be very similar to 09.

Sorry if someone has already said this, but I haven't read the whole thread.

The trouble is, many bugs aren't discovered until the actual users (i.e. us the fans) play the game. There is no way on earth that you check every single fragment of the game for bugs. I agree that 09 was littered with bugs, but that's what patches are for. To be honest, I've just got FM09 on PC and Fifa 09 on Xbox for xmas, and I much prefer FM because the bugs in that aren't half as bad as those in Fifa. In Fifa, the stictness of the refs make the game almost unplayable. The bugs in 09 aren't making the game unplayable apart from the Serie C1 bug (which literally made the game unplayable!), which has recently been fixed in the 9.0.2.

On a slightly related note, does anyone know if Fifa has a patch which I could download for my game on the xbox. Tell me if you're not allowed to discuss this here and I'll edit it out.

I think the thing is this: people could vote with their wallet and refuse to buy the game. Let's assume that the majority of FM players are hardcore (which they aren't necessarily) and these hardcore players decide not to buy the next version. That could hit the brand, they strategy going forward to improve sales and thus profit would change.

These hardcore (me included) don't want to hurt the brand, we simply want SI to maintain the high standards they set years ago, without sliding down the slippery EA slope. I for one think they are passed the point of no return. I love their work and I believe the essence of what made CM/FM great is still there, but as soon as they jumped into bed with Sega I was worried. And I believe my fears are bearing fruit sadly.

I dont see why they would have to skip a year? everything is in place to produce a great game, its the fact that they cannot put all these building blocks together to release a great game, is what concerns me?

One year you have a decent ME and think, if they ironed out a few of the problems thats THAT part of the game sorted, but they continue to mess with it until thats what you have, a mess!

Same with each and every area of the game, there is not a single part of the game that does not have its problems, some have been ignored totally for years, whilst others have been messed with too much, causing all new issues.

Its obvious that someone needs to take charge of the whole mess, making sure that when each section of the game comes together, it fits.

Thats what is missing and why it appears that SI are releasing a lazy unfinished game, which leads to people accusing them of greed and other such things.

Like i said, a year to put together a game where all the foundations are already in place? easy, now just try to make sure you dont forget the damp proof course, double glazing, central heating and the roof and it would be just fine.