SI Skip FM10

[Äktsjon Männ]

Code for ME 2009 was written from the scratch. So, completely new ME.

This is complete misinformation. They 'rewrote' the ball physics. This match engine has been in since CM4 which was the last rewrite.

[Box]

I wouldn't have bought FM09 had my FM08 disc not broken (and Sega refused to replace the media at media cost, like other distributors do), simply because I was happy with FM08 and I didn't feel the new features of FM09 justified another £29.99 less than 12 months after buying the game. This is purely a personal choice after playing and buying almost every release of CM/FM for the past 16 years.

My opinion is that SI should stick with an engine and release season updates (At reduced costs) to appease fans who want squad updates, big bug fixes and some minor and cosmetic additions and focus more efforts on "big" release of the game every 3 or more years that would include bigger and better features and engine rewrites. This is how they used to do it back in the day.

As is, they are doing "an EA" and releasing the same game year upon year with a few new features and a hell of a lot more new bugs. This isn't a criticism BTW, I am a fan of SI and thoroughly understand from a financial point of view the importance of an annual title release. I do get the feeling though, while the game has continued to improve over the last few years, this development has been slower and less innovative compared to it's progress 10 years ago.

I feel I could buy FM and get at least 2 years enjoyment out of it easily, as each release is a quality game on it's own merits and as a stand alone release. However, as a long term fan of the series and consistent customer, I have started to feel a little cheated each year and I don't feel it's worth shelling out £30 a year for what is essentially the same game with different bugs each year. I'd rather just stick with a release, get as many bugs fixed as possible and work around them for a couple of years until a new release with hopefully, a hell of a lot more features (obviously culminating from the 2 for so titles I've missed from the series). That's my plan anyway, we'll see how it works out lol

[Yasko75]

Best thing IMO would be that SI releases a squad/date update next year and fully concentrates on improving the playability of the game, especially the tactcis section which has not been good since the introduction of the slider system.

I would be prepared to pay for an squad/date update, maybe not as much as 40€, but at least half of that sum.

Please SI, try to improve the tactic part the next few years and try to make it more enjoyable, thats the hearth of this game and it has been unhealty since the slider system was introduced....

[grade]

I wouldn't have bought FM09 had my FM08 disc not broken (and Sega refused to replace the media at media cost, like other distributors do), simply because I was happy with FM08 and I didn't feel the new features of FM09 justified another £29.99 less than 12 months after buying the game. This is purely a personal choice after playing and buying almost every release of CM/FM for the past 16 years.

My opinion is that SI should stick with an engine and release season updates (At reduced costs) to appease fans who want squad updates, big bug fixes and some minor and cosmetic additions and focus more efforts on "big" release of the game every 3 or more years that would include bigger and better features and engine rewrites. This is how they used to do it back in the day.

As is, they are doing "an EA" and releasing the same game year upon year with a few new features and a hell of a lot more new bugs. This isn't a criticism BTW, I am a fan of SI and thoroughly understand from a financial point of view the importance of an annual title release. I do get the feeling though, while the game has continued to improve over the last few years, this development has been slower and less innovative compared to it's progress 10 years ago.

I feel I could buy FM and get at least 2 years enjoyment out of it easily, as each release is a quality game on it's own merits and as a stand alone release. However, as a long term fan of the series and consistent customer, I have started to feel a little cheated each year and I don't feel it's worth shelling out £30 a year for what is essentially the same game with different bugs each year. I'd rather just stick with a release, get as many bugs fixed as possible and work around them for a couple of years until a new release with hopefully, a hell of a lot more features (obviously culminating from the 2 for so titles I've missed from the series). That's my plan anyway, we'll see how it works out lol

I agree with you with every point you say. I playing FM07 for almost 2 Years and depending on third patch (which I have feeling that some issue I want resolved will not resolved) I will be playing for 3 years.

[Lecksa]

All i hope from future FM's is that Classic 2D will be available view also.

[TWSOIA]

I think that it's not necessary to skip 2010,but taking more time to test is not a bad idea,like cm did this year,i don't have anything against waiting for the game to be released as long as it's good when you release it,fm2009 is the worst game i've played since cm series!

[FMADDICT69]

i've just got 1 thing to say, can anyone name 1 top of the range, highly complexed game that has been releawsed in the last few years that didn't have some bugs in it, and didn't need a patch. i have brought a fair few games, and had to download a patch for everyone. i work in computers, on the hardware and networking side of things, and thats complex enough. programing is a whole other world, and a completly differant language. and the most complexed language that anyone can even try to learn. i say well play to SI. and if you guys have problems with the game, either offer some constructive solutions, or go somewhere else. we dont all go to a forum to winge about you lot doing a bad job at your place of work.

[Argel]

No, they dont need to release that information because its confidential and you would have no idea of the development cycle and timeline behind it so it would serve no useful purpose.

Your last statement is fairly libelous btw

Believe Matt from Sega referred to one bug as a 'showstopper'. Think the poster you responded to would win any libel case in seconds.

.

Anyway multiple issues:

1) SI won't skip a year, and you should be grateful for that, because it allows them the financial resources to push on with development. Can't believe anyone with eyes or ears would think that it was a good idea in the current economic climate.

2) Matt - You do realise that your assertion 'the number of new users on this forum since release date < the number of people who bought the game is redundant, because there are 128,000 members on here. That's a hefty chunk of change, no matter how you look at it, even if only half of those accounts were actively posting.

3) As far as testing goes, it's horrendous. There are holes all over the place, and I'd say that should be the priority. After speaking to a few testers though, my hope for 9.3 has gone, so I'm going to hold out hope that the testing of FM10 is done to a level that avoids having enormous bugs that take up most of SI's time after release. What we might find is that yes, SI are aware of something, but human resources and/or lack of desire to spend time on small issues result in them being ignored.

The 3D engine is a matter for SI. If they're actually happy with it... well I think anyone with eyes who has tried playing the game could probably give you a more concise opinion than I ever could. On the other hand, I refuse to believe that they're happy with it in it's current stae, because it is not an adequate representation of a game of football. Period.

Since '09 I've wasted so much time on here complaining, but you just feel that to give up would allow SI the chance to pump out more sales figures and tell us that we're irrelevant because we're too 'hardcore'. Er, if I'm hardcore, I'd like someone to explain why I didn't bother buying FM07 or FM08? Cheers.

[Argel]

Agreed Box, hence why I stuck with FM06.

[iLLs]

I cant imagine where you would have got that idea from tbh.

Anyway, we wont be skipping FM2010.

Respect fm09 good for me

[Bigwig]

I can’t see SI skipping any releases. It just doesn’t make financial sense.

However, I would be strongly in favour of them putting a hold on the new features while some of the outstanding issues are worked out. Without going into too much detail, there are still outstanding problems in the following areas:

2D

3D

Confidence

PPMs

Press Conferences

Regens

Tactics

Team Talks

Training

Transfers

Tutoring

Some of those have been around for a relatively short time and some have been around for ages. Some are small, minor issues while some have pretty big problems. What I would really, really like to see is FM2010 to be essentially the same game as FM2009, but with a data update and the list of issues above improved on, then for FM2011 we can see new features added.

I can’t remember any of the ‘big’ new features that worked well immediately. 2D was introduced and it took 3 incarnations for me to be persuaded to switch form commentary only as it never looked right until then. Team talks came in and they’re still flawed and in need of work. Confidence came in last season and still needs to be improved upon before bringing in other new features (imo).

The two new ‘big’ features of FM2009 were probably the 3D and press conferences. I’ve since disabled the 3D as it doesn’t represent a real game of football and have left press conferences to the assistant manager as they’re dull and repetitive.

Given the choice of splashing out on FM2010 as an updated FM2009 but with key areas updated or FM2010 as FM2009 as it is now but with a few new features I’d take the former each and every time.

[Ljuba82]

This is complete misinformation. They 'rewrote' the ball physics. This match engine has been in since CM4 which was the last rewrite.

Ball physics was rewritten when they intruced 3D, but I'm pretty sure that I red somewhere that ME was completely rewritten.

I mean you don't have to have IQ 150 to see that for example FM 2007 and FM 2009 don't have much in common...

I can bet that FM 2009 is not successor of FM 2007 (they didn't improve FM 2007 ME to get 09).

[Äktsjon Männ]

Ball physics was rewritten when they intruced 3D, but I'm pretty sure that I red somewhere that ME was completely rewritten.

I mean you don't have to have IQ 150 to see that for example FM 2007 and FM 2009 don't have much in common...

I can bet that FM 2009 is not successor of FM 2007 (they didn't improve FM 2007 ME to get 09).

You could bet of course but then you'd end up losing money. It's the same engine underneath, ask anyone at SI and they'll tell you that. The game has seen a ton of tweaks of course so it plays differently from FM07, the mechanics that make things happen are the same as in CM4 though.

[sparks199]

the main reason why SI rushed fm2009 though and will do the same to fm2010 is beacause of cm2009

new match 3d

if you read cm

this is there write up :

This is our opportunity to give consumers a reason to believe in Championship Manager once again,” continued Meredith. “After 4 years of mid-table mediocrity, we’re making great strides to become genuine title contenders. We want everyone to test this out by trying the demo which is out in March. Try the demo and make up your own minds.”

Eidos and Beautiful Game Studios are pleased to announce that the next version of Championship Manager, the leading name in football management simulation, will launch in April 2009.

With a complete graphical and engine overhaul,

Take total control with Championship Manager 2009, the leading name in football management simulations is back with a brand new look and a host of new features to bring the most loved sport in the world straight to your PC.

The fully animated, 3D match engine (featuring 500 fully motion captured animations per players) propels you right into the heart of the action on matchday, taking your management experience one step further. The only match engine specifically designed and created for a football management game allows you to watch the team in action as they put your carefully crafted tactics into action, view individual performances and be on hand to make changes when things go wrong.

With the development of a comprehensive training suite, managers can fine tune their tactics and their players. Fully customisable schedules, and numerous different drills, means managers can put individual players through their paces and then watch training unfold in full 3D glory.

With a brand new interface and backed by a huge database with all the latest data from the 2009 campaign, begin the journey to manage your team to success and bathe in glory.

Keep checking back as we’ll be announcing more features for Championship Manager 2009 over the coming months.

i must say the 3d looks the same to me ....

[anthony wright]

I can’t see SI skipping any releases. It just doesn’t make financial sense.

However, I would be strongly in favour of them putting a hold on the new features while some of the outstanding issues are worked out. Without going into too much detail, there are still outstanding problems in the following areas:

2D

3D

Confidence

PPMs

Press Conferences

Regens

Tactics

Team Talks

Training

Transfers

Tutoring

Some of those have been around for a relatively short time and some have been around for ages. Some are small, minor issues while some have pretty big problems. What I would really, really like to see is FM2010 to be essentially the same game as FM2009, but with a data update and the list of issues above improved on, then for FM2011 we can see new features added.

I can’t remember any of the ‘big’ new features that worked well immediately. 2D was introduced and it took 3 incarnations for me to be persuaded to switch form commentary only as it never looked right until then. Team talks came in and they’re still flawed and in need of work. Confidence came in last season and still needs to be improved upon before bringing in other new features (imo).

The two new ‘big’ features of FM2009 were probably the 3D and press conferences. I’ve since disabled the 3D as it doesn’t represent a real game of football and have left press conferences to the assistant manager as they’re dull and repetitive.

Given the choice of splashing out on FM2010 as an updated FM2009 but with key areas updated or FM2010 as FM2009 as it is now but with a few new features I’d take the former each and every time.

I must be playing a diferrent game to some of you guys Whilst I would agre that ther are some flaws in the 3D ( which there are in all management games with 3D) As a regular attender of football matches IRL for more than 40 years, I believe that FM09 shows the best 3D representation of a match to date

[Lower League Only]

I cant imagine where you would have got that idea from tbh.

Anyway, we wont be skipping FM2010.

Please for the love of god actually finish and test the game before you release it.

I buy a FM every other year because i hate the fact i rarely get very far before a new version comes out. I didnt skip this time becasue the new 3D match engine.

Shame on me i wish id saved my money.

The latest FM is at best , and to be fair... a heap of junk.

It should be an embarassment to the franchise , developers and company.

Frankly id be embarassed to be posting with a " I work for SI " avatar. I wouldnt want to represent anything pushing out half rate goods.

When i buy a packet of crisps i dont expect to buy the packet and open it to find a memmo saying, Crisps will be sent to your house in 4 months time , then you can enjoy them.

Guess what, i EXPECT to pay for a working game.

Its Febuary and FM09 is still unplayable.

I sincerly hope im not banned or censored for replying directly to a SI employee but wouldnt be surprised for being surpressed for displaying my opinion.

Ive been playing CM since its first incarnation and I am disapointed in what its become.

[atonement]

fight the man

with future FMs im just going to wait till february when its patched and playable

then ebay it up

my copy has just been collecting dust so far

[TossMonkey]

i just chucked 09 away, didnt like it at all... stick with 08, havin good fun messin with databases and making world class leagues will be doin that till 10 maybe 11

[TWSOIA]

Please for the love of god actually finish and test the game before you release it.

I buy a FM every other year because i hate the fact i rarely get very far before a new version comes out. I didnt skip this time becasue the new 3D match engine.

Shame on me i wish id saved my money.

The latest FM is at best , and to be fair... a heap of junk.

It should be an embarassment to the franchise , developers and company.

Frankly id be embarassed to be posting with a " I work for SI " avatar. I wouldnt want to represent anything pushing out half rate goods.

When i buy a packet of crisps i dont expect to buy the packet and open it to find a memmo saying, Crisps will be sent to your house in 4 months time , then you can enjoy them.

Guess what, i EXPECT to pay for a working game.

Its Febuary and FM09 is still unplayable.

I sincerly hope im not banned or censored for replying directly to a SI employee but wouldnt be surprised for being surpressed for displaying my opinion.

Ive been playing CM since its first incarnation and I am disapointed in what its become.

I must say i agree with you,this was a very very good game since the start of the series,and now they think they can live on an old glory instead of trying hard to develop a much better game!

[Yallii]

I'm in the rewrite-camp. Would be good to freshen things up. Either that or go through the game with a kill your darlings attitude to get rid of some of the bloat. If only SI dared to get rid of features once in a while, then none of these threads would exist.

[TWSOIA]

Optimize the game,add new fresh looks,make newer features more interesting(press conferences and media),test it before releasing and that's the recipe for fm2010.

[pires29]

I must be playing a diferrent game to some of you guys Whilst I would agre that ther are some flaws in the 3D ( which there are in all management games with 3D) As a regular attender of football matches IRL for more than 40 years, I believe that FM09 shows the best 3D representation of a match to date

I really don't know which level of football you watch then cause even a match between primary school kids is more watchable. How many times do you see players standing with the ball at their feet doing circles around it waiting for a defenders to run up to them and cooly take the ball away from them when they have either at least one open player that they could easily pass the ball to or plenty space in which they could drive on with the ball to get into a better position further up the field?

How many times in a season do you see a long kick up field by a goalkeeper evading every defender leaving an easy chance for a striker?

How many times do you watch a full-back run parrallel with an opponent winger and not even attempt to make a tackle or try to cut of the attackers run so they cant get past them?

How often do you watch you right back run alongside a player who cut inside over to the complete opposite wing instead of passing the player on to a better positioned defender?

How often does the ball get played to your 'keeper who controls the ball and waits for an attacker to run up and take the ball away from him without even attempting to clear the ball?

Or how often in a season do you see every single player in your team stand and watch the ball at an attckers feet and not cover the run of another forward who walks through the middle of your team and receives the ball to score?

Another problem i've noticed is that there is no fluidity in the passing of different teams. There are no similarities between watching a Barcelona game in real life and watching one on this game, the engine seems to be set up to adopt the British mentality of get the ball up the park as quickly as possible alot more easily than attempting a more continental, technical tactic of patient build up and pass which seems when watching as if it doesn't fit into how the game wants the game to be played.

This is not a rant because it pains me to say this because even with the obvious flaws this game has I still love the game, I just can't see how people who claim to know so much about football can be so oblivious to the serious flaws in the representations of matches.

[we6boss]

No, I didn't say that. Personally, I don't have a problem with this year's game. The one issue that is a showstopper in my view, I was unaware of prior to launch (Serie C Bug).

That sort of comment is seriously offending. I mean, I bought the game just to play as Galatasaray in the Turkish League; and guess what? After the first season, there is no way to confirm/register transfers/new players during the January Registration Window. That, Mr. Matt, is a 'showstopper', a problem that has been there on and off since years. Totally unacceptable. (And I am not even going into the horrible ME where C. Palace, 3 games in a row mind you(I restarted the match), beat my star-packed Chelsea, by more than 1 goal while they had less that 6 shots total; and this is also while my Eto'o and F. Torres, leading offense, had more than 20 shots on goal.) And don't talk about tactics; in previous versions, I won Champions League within my first 2-3 years with Mid-level clubs in leagues that were not EPL, La Liga, Serie A. (LOL! AND THE EXORBITANT AMOUNT OF 1-on-1's World Class strikers miss against average keepers... no coaching tactics needed to mess up those!)

For FM2010, IMO, don't add any features and just consummately polish up this current game; I for one will appreciate that more than any superfluous and unessential "features".

There are way too many bugs that completely outweigh any of the superfluous features that the SI developed as advancements; i.e. what's the point of a completely generic, repetitive, and so dry pre/post match conference when you are busy thinking about how 7 of your starters got injured within 2 games? Or if you should offer Bojan 2k a week or 5k a week after Barcelona releases this World-star on a free? Or if you should play a 3-3-4 formation just to score a goal, that is NOT a long shot, against a relegation team while you have one of the highest pay-rolls in the world? etc. etc. etc.

But hey, 3-D match engine, right?

[Pavel Pogrebnyak]

PES talked about doing this, but lets be real here, what company is going to be willing to give up a whole years sales just to develop the game more, anyway everyone knows that game makers intentionally leave things out so they have new stuff to temp buyers in year after year

[Rupal]

Just suppose that CM actually get it right and produce a decent game with a good 3D match engine.

SI wouldn't be able to get away with things as they have recently.

We can but hope.

[vivu]

Just suppose that CM actually get it right and produce a decent game with a good 3D match engine.

SI wouldn't be able to get away with things as they have recently.

We can but hope.

CM seems to be coming out with a decent product this time out (at least with more depth in English league). Hopefully this will spur SI to be more focused.

Personally, I don't have a problem with this year's game. The one issue that is a showstopper in my view, I was unaware of prior to launch (Serie C Bug).

Matt the problem is some of the same issues are resurfacing from version to version and even in new patches there are deal breakers. Try managing a German team which has B team in league (You are in deep s**t if the B team is relegated) and managing Spanish teams. Playing in Italian league has become ridiculous due to the co-ownership bug.

The facts that issues from FM08 is carried on into FM09 shows that the troubleshooting done is not being documented / followed up properly.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy playing the game, but if a similar product was released in any other product line (other than computer gaming/ software development) the company would be facing serious backlash. Sad to see SI going the MS way.

[Nomis07]

CM seems to be coming out with a decent product this time out (at least with more depth in English league). Hopefully this will spur SI to be more focused.

I love the way people are giving CM glowing endorsements after seeing a grainy video and finding out that they have added 3 English leagues. It'll crap as usual.

[Pavel Pogrebnyak]

Matt the problem is some of the same issues are resurfacing from version to version and even in new patches there are deal breakers. Try managing a German team which has B team in league (You are in deep s**t if the B team is relegated) and managing Spanish teams. Playing in Italian league has become ridiculous due to the co-ownership bug.

The facts that issues from FM08 is carried on into FM09 shows that the troubleshooting done is not being documented / followed up properly.

Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy playing the game, but if a similar product was released in any other product line (other than computer gaming/ software development) the company would be facing serious backlash. Sad to see SI going the MS way.

Could you alaberate on the co-ownership bug? i have just started a Juve save, and not much point starting it if it is as bad as you make it out to be

[vivu]

Could you alaberate on the co-ownership bug? i have just started a Juve save, and not much point starting it if it is as bad as you make it out to be

Check out the bugs forum, its well documented. The jist of the issue is, you want to buy a star, say Kaka, just offer above half his listed value as co-ownership deal and add a future transfer value of almost same. The club will accept the deal and once the deal is completed offer the agreed price and voila the player is yours. The same team would reject a transfer bid of 3-4 times the player's actual value.

[vivu]

I love the way people are giving CM glowing endorsements after seeing a grainy video and finding out that they have added 3 English leagues. It'll crap as usual.

Check the post, I'm not commenting on the 3D engine, but on the proposed new leagues.

My main gripe with CM games post split was the poor research and the db which looks like a very poor cousin of FM.

[Nomis07]

Check the post, I'm not commenting on the 3D engine, but on the proposed new leagues.

I did read the post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, I didn't think you were seriously saying CM looks better because it's added more leagues. Don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't bode well for FM if fans are thinking "more leagues, must be better".

[vivu]

I did read the post, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, I didn't think you were seriously saying CM looks better because it's added more leagues. Don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't bode well for FM if fans are thinking "more leagues, must be better".

The game engine in cm was pretty stable. They are testing 3d engine and are releasing the game at a delayed date. That they are going for more leagues indicate they have done some amount of research on the db.

So as I mentioned, if they do the licensing and research of leagues better, they would be in a strong position to compete with FM.

[Nomis07]

So as I mentioned, if they do the licensing and research of leagues better, they would be in a strong position to compete with FM.

That makes more sense. However, it's a bit like saying "if the banks don't pay the bosses lots of money, the banks will have more money".

[Expedite]

I think i certainly wont be buying another SI game again.

[vivu]

However, it's a bit like saying "if the banks don't pay the bosses lots of money, the banks will have more money".

Whereas the current scenario of SI is like that of MS. Release a half baked product, patch, patch and patch and finally when the game is half decent, come out again with another half baked product, patch........

[Rupal]

I love the way people are giving CM glowing endorsements after seeing a grainy video and finding out that they have added 3 English leagues. It'll crap as usual.

It's wonderful, this second sight.....

[Nomis07]

It's wonderful, this second sight.....

If it is better than FM, even though 09 is poor, I will snog CaptainPlanet.

[Pipo2525]

Just suppose that CM actually get it right and produce a decent game with a good 3D match engine.

SI wouldn't be able to get away with things as they have recently.

We can but hope.

I'm actually looking forward to trying it! Bit of healthy competition can't do any harm can it.

Not played 2009 for a good weeks due to the unrealistic nature of the match engine especially the defending. If i see another one of my defenders stand still as an attacker steams past them or runs like a crab to make a tackle which they usually miss , my PC will bear the brunt of my frustration

[vivu]

If it is better than FM, even though 09 is poor, I will snog CaptainPlanet.

Who is the unlucky captain whose life is riding on CM remaining poor?

[sparks199]

we all want the new cm to be good ... because this will lift fm to do better or fall apart wile cm makes a comeback

[chopper99]

If it is better than FM, even though 09 is poor, I will snog CaptainPlanet.

Poor CP, although I don't think he's got too much to worry about.

[Rupal]

Poor CP, although I don't think he's got too much to worry about.

He will probably bribe CM to produce a lousy game for the sake of self-preservation!

[Mitja]

I can’t see SI skipping any releases. It just doesn’t make financial sense.

However, I would be strongly in favour of them putting a hold on the new features while some of the outstanding issues are worked out. Without going into too much detail, there are still outstanding problems in the following areas:

2D

3D

Confidence

PPMs

Press Conferences

Regens

Tactics

Team Talks

Training

Transfers

Tutoring

Some of those have been around for a relatively short time and some have been around for ages. Some are small, minor issues while some have pretty big problems. What I would really, really like to see is FM2010 to be essentially the same game as FM2009, but with a data update and the list of issues above improved on, then for FM2011 we can see new features added.

I can’t remember any of the ‘big’ new features that worked well immediately. 2D was introduced and it took 3 incarnations for me to be persuaded to switch form commentary only as it never looked right until then. Team talks came in and they’re still flawed and in need of work. Confidence came in last season and still needs to be improved upon before bringing in other new features (imo).

The two new ‘big’ features of FM2009 were probably the 3D and press conferences. I’ve since disabled the 3D as it doesn’t represent a real game of football and have left press conferences to the assistant manager as they’re dull and repetitive.

Given the choice of splashing out on FM2010 as an updated FM2009 but with key areas updated or FM2010 as FM2009 as it is now but with a few new features I’d take the former each and every time.

that's all they need to do to make this game good again. but i'm 99% sure it won't happen. looks like new features is what they concentrate on. they don't need to work properly as long as a few of them get introduced each year. someone would think FM09 is different, evolved, better game than FM06. but it isn't. and it won't be until they sort those things you mentioned - football basics. if these things don't work properly, all those shiny new features are meaningless. some of those basic features need rewriting also, like tactics - training, AI tactics, introduction of some kind of consistancy of ME...

[Zebedee77]

I don't think moving the release date is necessarily the answer. What we need is more eyes on the game during the run in. The testers we had this year all did as much as anyone could expect but I think we simply needed more, and for enough time that we have a shot at fixing all the main issues for release.

Thanks for listening Paul. Hopefully whatever steps you've taken to help address this will result in an improved game upon release.

[Kickballz]

i've just got 1 thing to say, can anyone name 1 top of the range, highly complexed game that has been releawsed in the last few years that didn't have some bugs in it, and didn't need a patch. i have brought a fair few games, and had to download a patch for everyone. i work in computers, on the hardware and networking side of things, and thats complex enough. programing is a whole other world, and a completly differant language. and the most complexed language that anyone can even try to learn. i say well play to SI. and if you guys have problems with the game, either offer some constructive solutions, or go somewhere else. we dont all go to a forum to winge about you lot doing a bad job at your place of work.

Oh here we go again. Mr 'I work in the industry' with the same old strawman argument we've heard a million times.

Nobody has said they expect it to be bug free. They are saying it has a lot of bugs - too many bugs - and that more of them should have been fixed before the game was released.

[tingting]

1 on 1's firstly. There was a stat that came out just a couple of years ago. I think they watched 10000 clips of 1-on-1s and found that just 36% were scored.

Every time someone gives this explanation of strikers missing one-on-ones, i find it laughable. The testers could have really watched 10000 clips and decided that the average scoring rate from such situations was 36%. What i want to know is whether they have watched 10000 clips of the same player? In the game we have world class strikers missing easy chances again and again...so whats the difference between a Torres or a Ibrahimovic and some unknown striker if they both are going to miss 64% of the one-on-one chances???

If you wish to be a successful manager in the game, then you should be looking to do management like that.

As far as i know, football manager is being marketed as football management simulation <b>game</b>. I agree with SEGA that there are no "show stopper" bugs now that the second patch has released...but the ME has so many small bugs that the margin of error becomes very small. Defenders rushing out of their position to close down attackers (usually 2-3 players try to converge on the opposition player who has the ball) even though closing down is specified to its lowest level - marking preference is zonal and the tight marking option is not ticked. Wingers with high dribbling attribute fail to beat even inept defenders when near the byline on the either side of the penalty box, hitting their crosses straight into the defenders, not cutting back before crossing (which would have given them a better chance of completing their crosses but they instead prefer to hit the defenders) and of course the one-on-one problem.

[Mitja]

Oh here we go again. Mr 'I work in the industry' with the same old strawman argument we've heard a million times.

Nobody has said they expect it to be bug free. They are saying it has a lot of bugs - too many bugs - and that more of them should have been fixed before the game was released.

...and that there are old bugs/flaws/issues which are constantly getting ignored from version to version which has created 'no way out effect'. maybe skipping FM10 isn't a bad idea but of course it's not going to happen.

[CaptainPlanet]

If it is better than FM, even though 09 is poor, I will snog CaptainPlanet.

Make sure you have a tictac first.

[Nomis07]

We can share it

[chopper99]

We can share it

*Shudders*