Team Talks: the only 3 choices you need :)

Hi guys,

in the last FM11 game i finally did the team talks myself and worked out a system based on scoreline of which talk to give and got positive results back everytime so i was wandering to myself how would i go with the new tone system in team talks and i have worked out you only need to use 3 tones during the match.

Pre game team talk : choose the "ASSERTIVE" tone and choose the last option always get positive feedback mostly green if not all by players.

Half-time talk: this is based on how the score is if you are drawing or behind you give "AGGRESIVE" tone and choose the last option always get positive feedback from players mostly green if not all by players. if we are winning you give "PASSIONATE" tone and choose the last option always get positive feedback from players mostly green if not all by players.

Full time: once again based on scoreline if Drawn or behind you give "AGGRESIVE" tone and choose the last option always get positive feedback from players mostly green if not all by players, if we win you give "PASSIONATE" tone and choose the last option always get positive feedback from players mostly green if not all by players.

with these team talks my players morale improves and they all are revved up for the whole year and my performances are great by the team morale is always in the green if not superb for most of the side.

have tested with a wide range of teams and currently using my system for Rotherham and i am leading the league by 1 pt halfway through the season even though i am 1.4million in debt and can only get free players to sign as no transfer money, currently in Npower league 1 at the moment.

hope these work for you guys if you decide to have a go with them.

cheers,

mike

Saw this thread as my side was going into halftime trailing 1-0 to a far lesser opponent. Followed your advice and only one player turned red, handful of greens. Managed to tie the game but still gave them the hairdryer treatment following the game (aggresive/not happy) and pretty much all greens. Hmm...

yes it is not like fm11 where you could not say anything bad this version fm12 seems to be much more forgiving, you can now tell them off and get all greens regardless. Glad it seems to work for you as well. My Rotherham side is performing very well at this stage because of this.

cheers,

mike

Is green always good though?

I don't like the fact that it turns when they get relaxed. It suggests to me that they might get complacent.

I would rather have no effect at all if their morale is already good or better.

i actually adore people like you because now i can say to si there is a hard coded way to play the game and no matter how good some of us are and inventive we are you will ultimatly look to screw us over and make our save a fail.

this guy has just cracked your oh so perfect game.

Does noone get bothered that everything seems to depend on morale, more than tactics?

I dont think team talks are that important in the game.

More often that not, I don't even bother with them and still get good results.

To be honest, the WHOLE game needs a re-think.

My biggest issue is the tactics - the whole tactics set up is too restrictive.

It's much more complex than this, try being aggressive to a team that hasn't won in 7 games - a calm approach is best praising the little good parts about their game.

It's much more complex than this, try being aggressive to a team that hasn't won in 7 games - a calm approach is best praising the little good parts about their game.

Yeah, I've pretty much settled on the OPs method when things are going well but when morale is low I switch to calm + no pressure and reluctant + you were rubbish as appropriate.

I would say you need five team talks rather than three.

i actually adore people like you because now i can say to si there is a hard coded way to play the game and no matter how good some of us are and inventive we are you will ultimatly look to screw us over and make our save a fail.

this guy has just cracked your oh so perfect game.

Were you reading a different thread?

it doesn't seem to matter if you are on a losing streak or whatever you will always get mostly green if not all of them, when i get my players saying their relaxed all the pressure is off and they do better so it seems to work no matter what the situation is.

Morale seems to be the overall guiding factor now at least that is what i am leaning towards as all seems well i was supposed to finish 15th last year in saved game but got up to 5th and lost playoff final 1-0 due to unlucky own goal, this year i am currently 2nd now behind by 5 points with a game in hand and not supposed to finish hgher than 17th this year. my players are nothing special and tactic is just an ordinary tactic created by myself of which i am no master tactic builder either so all i can say is morale IS the big factor in this game this year.

cheers,

Mike

My opinion, based on three versions of FM, is that morale is by far and away the dominant factor for small, over achieving clubs. For big clubs it's much less important.

The wide range of teams this has been tested with, could you let us know who they were and for how many games it has been used with each?

Personally, I only use "(Pass) You have faith!" before a game nowadays, gets all or almost all greens, then "You're a bunch of donkeys" or "Playing well, keep it up" or "Don't get complacent" at half time, depending on the situation. Of course, if you're an underdog a lot of the time, you'll pull the "No pressure!" card and get everybody relaxed. You can even do that if you're favorites.

But for me now, You have faith! works every time. Putting on pressure has absolutely zero effect for me, even if we're 11-1 favorites. No response whatsoever. Same with "Do it for the fans!". Most options are pretty useless.

So now that we have reduced the extremes of morale for 12.1, do you still think this holds true?

To be honest... idk yet :-)

I aggree that before the patch it was to easy to keep up morale. Almost my entire squad was on superb almost the whole season.

Yet, there are some issues with team talks and morale which I believe need to be explained.

First of all it would be nice to get a proper and official explanation about the meachnics behind morale / team talk / match performance. If people would understand how it "really" works or how it is supposed to work a lot of the recent ranting / complaining about morale and team talk would cease.

x) How does morale "really" work and to what extent does it influence match performance?

At the moment team talks are very repetitive. There are still some "cookie cutter" routines which produce positive reactions most of the time. One way is explained in the OP. Another routine is the "You have faith!" option. 90% of my players react always well to it (pre-match and half time). Some look motivated and get a morale boost while others look happy.

x) How can we interpret the different reactions and in what way do they influence match performance?

e.g. is Fired-Up! "better" than "looks motivated". Is "looks happy" really sth. positive or an indication that the player might get complacent. That sort of thing...

x) Are team talks ONLY about morale?

Do team talks only influnce morale which in turn influences match performance or are there other hidden "attributes" which are modified by team talks? I can get a "looks motivated" reaction by telling the player "I have faith in you!" and I can get a "looks motivated" reaction by a player by telling him "I expect a performance!". However, I wonder if there is any difference between the two or if its just two different ways to get to the same result.

x) What changes morale and why?

After a match my striker is on "very good". I have a nice chat with him and since he scored two goals I tell him "Good effort, mate!" and he reacts positively and is on "superb". One day later his morale is back to "good". Why :-) ? I have the feeling that after the patch morale "decays" much faster.

x) Issue with some players

Some players are for no apparent reason always on low morale level. The problem is that nobody knows why. We can only guess why which makes it a bit frustrating.

So what you, SI, should do is communicate and explain some of the mechanics behind morale / player interaction. If people know and understand WHY sth. happens and how things are realted than it is much more enjoyable to tinker and play with them. At the moment all is about guesses and speculations and that's what frustrates people.

But you could argue it is for the user to deduce the mechanics for themselves,

tbh we shouldnt have to work out the mechanics of this VERY complicated game..... WE dont know how the mechanics of everything works and to have to spend hours/days/weeks working it out when all we really want to do is play the blooming game is more than a little annoying......

I don't think that would work on my milan squad, they are hard to motivate. Most of them dont care whatever you say, but I will test your approach just in case.

I was toying with teamtalks and it seems it depends a lot on player personalities.

Ambitious players want to win most of the time so assertive/agressive "you should be winning" teamtalks work well. For example, Seedorf (iron willed - high Preasure attribute) reacts well to pressure - he responds well to "I expect performance from you." When player is on low moral "Have faith in you" works well in most cases - just like SI wrote in Tips/Hints. "I am not happy with your performance" works best most of the time, probably because all Milan players have high reputations and are expected to get high 7.00+ marks in the game.

I read somewhere on forums that teamtalks influence only first 10-15 minutes of halftime, don't know if its true. Could someone confirm this?

So now that we have reduced the extremes of morale for 12.1, do you still think this holds true?

Do i think this holds true after patch 12.1 the answer is MOST DEFINATELY YES!!!! i see no difference in the results from 12.1 or previously before being patched i get the same results i was from before. Now i am not saying this is bad or anything i was just informing people of my findings when it came to team talks is all, i find the game enjoyable and interesting and i personally don't have a problem with the game at all myself, but at the same time i can understand people wanting to know why such and such happens or why this affects such and such i think SI could explain the mechanics behind the game a bit better than you do at the moment, i am happy with how it is though myself.

The wide range of teams this has been tested with, could you let us know who they were and for how many games it has been used with each?

As for the wide range of teams they are Man Utd for 2 seasons, Wolfsburg in germany for 3 seasons, Rotherham in my 5th year at the club for the moment doing very well couple of cup wins and nleague 2 champions to get promoted in first season, Fulham for about 1 1/2 seasons and one other team Middlesborough for 4 seasons.

in all games, i have used my findings from my original post and have always had positive results all the time so all i can say is my findings have been true and honest and are working a treat

I am very happy with how the game plays and for once feel like i have a complete grasp of the game not since FM10 have i felt this confident in playing this game i repeat i have no problems with how game plays out but at the same time i do understand other peoples frustration or wanting of knowledge of the mechanics behind the game at the same time.

cheers,

mike

But you could argue it is for the user to deduce the mechanics for themselves, or at least teach themselves how to get the best from them?

Sure... I can see where you are coming from. Working out how sth. works is surely a good part of the game and I enjoy it very much.

On the other hand it would be nice to have some "guideline" or insight into the mechanics sometimes. I'm not suggesting to tell us: Ok! Team talks! If you do A and B happnes than it is best to use C because it leads to the best result!

A bit of claryfying and some explanations to get us on the right track might help to reduce frustrations. Finding out how things work and how to get the best out of my team is great fun! To stumble about in the dark all the time is not :-)

The problems I have are with the words.

I know how to get a player "fired up" but what does that actually mean? I assume it's good because it's green and it does seem to make players' final rating higher but what's actually happened?

I just use the assertive tone with 'you have faith' and that always seems to make people happy or motivate them in some way.

The problems I have are with the words.

I know how to get a player "fired up" but what does that actually mean? I assume it's good because it's green and it does seem to make players' final rating higher but what's actually happened?

I'm exactly in the same boat and this is one of the areas where I believe some official clarifictaion would be helpful without taking the fun away.

I just use the assertive tone with 'you have faith' and that always seems to make people happy or motivate them in some way.

Thats the same "routine" I'm using at the moment. Seems to give me "positive" results 95% of the time.

I use - Start of game > Overall team talk - Passionate/Expect a win

Individual/Sections of team - Assertive/I Believe you have what it takes/I have faith

Half Time > (If Winning) Passionate or Asserted - Delighted(anyone under 6.5 rating i use 'Still more to come')

(If Losing) Aggressive - Question passion/2nd Option down.

(If Drawing) Passionate or Asserted - i beleive theres more to come (if over 6.5, delighted)

Full Time > (Win) - Delighted

(Small margin win against a team we was supposedly meant to hammer) - Overall team talk wasnt good enough (can be risky but has been working for me)

(Loss)- aggressive 2nd option down

I Sometimes use the pick up where you left off if they performed well in the last match but the section team talks cover this pretty well with 'i beleive theres more to come'

Ive used this team talk philosphy all the way through my recent and current Luton saves, I won the league cup in League 2 on the first save and have just wont he FA cup on my latest save 4-2 agains tottenham, also with undefeated 200+goals conference prem win

several of my team were confused when i told them i expected a win against all sides i faced but they largely turned green/positive when i told them i beleived they had what it takes/more to come/faith with the individual/section team talks.

personally i think this team talk plan i use works best if you can get on a good run of results early and then use it as a snowball down a mountain effect for the rest of your season.

I really like this years team talks unlike previous versions where they pretty much did the opposite of what you asked/said.

tbh we shouldnt have to work out the mechanics of this VERY complicated game..... WE dont know how the mechanics of everything works and to have to spend hours/days/weeks working it out when all we really want to do is play the blooming game is more than a little annoying......

Speak for yourself. I play this game because of the features they have. Complicated game = more knowledgable you get.

I think theres even more to it than we realise. I was just reading the thread on determination and someone on there reckoned that its possible that a players determination may actually change by 1 or 2 stat points over a season or two without tutoring as a result of things like, criticism, media comment and team talk expectation (i.e. consistently expecting a lot from a player/team) and the determination of his team-mates.

What this means, if true, is that the mechanics of the game as BungleFish says are very very complicated. This goes for team talks too. I have noticed several times complacency set in when I use the same team talk too many times, even though going "by the book" I would use say "I expect a win" - assertive, in a given situation.

I think the only way to play it is to try and think as realistically as possible - have you been on a good run? what type of personality do your players have? what have you been saying previously? what did you say in the pre-match interview? have you recently criticised a player etc.

Re;Bunglefish's opinion on the over-complication of the game. I personally agree with SazoJohnno. The added detail and features make the game much more rewarding when you do get it right. I remember the old games when there was just text commentary, basic tactics etc and I used to have no real idea why I won or lost and the game was all about simply buying the best players. They were fun, but I feel this way of playing is more immersive. I accept this is a personal issue. If the added realism stops you enjoying the game why not just get your ass.man to handle team talks?

Does noone get bothered that everything seems to depend on morale, more than tactics?

I do. I made this comment in another thread:

After the first 3 games of the season or so, it becomes less "Football Manager" and more "Relationship Simulator."

Too much of the game, for me at least, seems to be centered on the superfluous and not the actual abilities of the squads.

This is pretty much my vision on how the game should be played, I think. In an ideal world anyway ;-)

Thats also what I would prefer. However, when I do that, I rarely get green results in team talks. However, some options, like telling players to relax, telling them I have faith and telling them Im disappointed pretty much guarantees green results, regardless of whether morale is low/high.

So I can either go with "realistic", which produces little (green) results, or follow an unrealistic, set pattern, which consistently gives (green) results. I dont like to play in this latter way, buts its hard to argue against it, is it?

Whats your opinion on that PaulC?

This is pretty much my vision on how the game should be played, I think. In an ideal world anyway ;-)

Can you at least tell us please in what degree morale affects matches, as opposed to tactics?

And why on earth have you let morale play such a large part in the result? In real life you don't see players falling into poor morale after a bad comment or a lost and then the manager trying to make them feel better for weeks...

What tools have you given us in order to bring our team around, when low morale can't produce any wins most of the times, no matter the tactics or opposition?

Some things must use the videogame logic in order to work. You can't expect us to use real life techniques when the game's feedback is so poor and the responses to team talks many times illogical.

Team talks - I think its possible to read a little too much into the red/green/grey thing. Sure, it may have some effect on morale or motivation but its just one small part of the whole dataset that forms a match. But to answer your question - my advice would be to report illogical responses and provide pkms of the match in question.

Morale - in the old days it used to be an offset on player ability on the day, but in recent years we have come away from that and its more reflected in player behaviour on the pitch. As an example, a player with good morale is less likely to play rushed passes and more likely to make calmer decisions. I think its more related to decisions these days, especially ones taken with the ball. Of course its far from the biggest factor in these decisions, just another influencing factor.

Many thanks for the reply.

About morale though, you can't deal in absolutes unless the player's morale is abysmal or in most cases very poor (and even then the REALLY legendary players could save the day once a season).

A player with poor/fairly poor/ok morale shouldn't suddenly lose his quality to make correct decisions. Sure, he shouldn't be playing as well as when he has a superb morale, but he should play ok.

The most important fact is that morale in real life doesn't shift so drastically as a general rule. These are professionals footballers and they seem to behave like 18 year old prodigies with emotional problems.

With things like morale you can't use absolutes unless it's an extreme situation in my opinion. All these years the game seems to be more about black and white than grey, and that really messes things up.

Team talks - I think its possible to read a little too much into the red/green/grey thing. Sure, it may have some effect on morale or motivation but its just one small part of the whole dataset that forms a match.

Am I correct in understanding that you're saying that the influence of red/green/grey isnt that big, as there are many more variables which have an effect? But even so, I think there's no denying that a green is still to be preferred over grey and especially over red. So even if the end result doesnt change that much, anything you can do to make your team better, is something most people would look to do. So that includes giving illogical team talks, such as outlined in the first post of this thread.

But a green can be worse than a grey. Technically, you could cause your players to become to relaxed (becoming relaxed is a green response) but that could be the opposite of what you want at that moment in time. What Paul is saying is stick to the team talk that makes sense, not what just gives you a green response if I have understood him correctly.

I just let my assistant give the team talks, it takes the problem away from me.

But a green can be worse than a grey. Technically, you could cause your players to become to relaxed (becoming relaxed is a green response) but that could be the opposite of what you want at that moment in time. What Paul is saying is stick to the team talk that makes sense, not what just gives you a green response if I have understood him correctly.

How do you know that this piece of information is in fact how the game mechanics work?

But a green can be worse than a grey. Technically, you could cause your players to become to relaxed (becoming relaxed is a green response) but that could be the opposite of what you want at that moment in time. What Paul is saying is stick to the team talk that makes sense, not what just gives you a green response if I have understood him correctly.

You want players to be relaxed. Relax is not the same as complacent, its the opposite of stressed. When a player is relaxed, it allows him to play his natural game. Maybe before the talk, a player felt a little stressed, or a little nervy, after the talk, he'll be more comfortable. Thats only a good thing. Sure, maybe you'd rather have him fired up or whatever, but being relaxed is still better than being neutral (grey). He'll be less likely to get stressed.

So although one green level could be preferred over another, any green talk is still better than a grey one, however small the actuall effect may by during the match. Thats how I interpret it anyway You certainly dont want the opposite of relax (stressed)!

true, and here is the problem there is so much that is different understanding of the same mechanism, based on different peoples views, and only SI know which is definately right.

Team talks - I think its possible to read a little too much into the red/green/grey thing.

Had a perfect example of this last night, dominating a game 2-1 at HT... Gave a rousing team talk that got people fired up or motivated.

Lost 3-2 due to the other team outplaying me, my team did not play badly the other team just played amazing and had a lucky goal to go along with it.

At the end told the guys it was bad luck and promptly went on an 11 game unbeaten streak that took me to third in the table

But a green can be worse than a grey. Technically, you could cause your players to become to relaxed (becoming relaxed is a green response) but that could be the opposite of what you want at that moment in time. What Paul is saying is stick to the team talk that makes sense, not what just gives you a green response if I have understood him correctly.

When i get relaxed response my players all play brilliantly so i dont think relaxed is bad at all i think it means there playing with the freedom of no pressure and are given a boost by this, in all my games i have not seen 1 player who has had relaxed play badly or worse than before his rating always go up during the game and he always plays well.

Cheers,

mike

On the other hand I have seen relaxed players play badly after looking relaxed, often it went hand in hand with being complacent before the talk, but relaxed has not always been good for me in my experience

i think as with all games, once you work out a winning formuler it's hard to go from hero to zero, IRl lets use Fergie as an example, he has recreated many different teams with Utd and he's probably going to go out and leave the game in the shadow of Man City, purly for finacial reasons and not good managment..

In Fm i think it would be easier to replicate Fergie's achievments or even better them once you know how the game work..

I have also found these talks to give these results and have been using them to my benefit for a while. I know some people will argue that relaxed isn't necessarily a good thing, but if your players have good morale before the game it isn't usually a problem, at least it hasn't been for my 2.Bundesliga-leading RasenBallsport Leipzig team.

I've really struggled on my save it seems to me that everytime I put more effort into the game the more I under perform, it was the same with the previous 2 versions for me. I try to play the game realistically but ultimately everytime I go into detail my results worsen rather than improve. If however I make a quick decision based on my gut I always perform better, I don't know if any of you experience the game like this?

So if my realistic team talk and decisions always have a detrimental effect compared to playing the game like a 10 year old a.d.d kid surely I should just rely on my staff? If so do you reckon I should leave teams talks to a member of staff someone perhaps who has 18+ man management and motivating? I wonder how likely I am to produce better team talks that the game can understand compared to a member of staff like this?

So now that we have reduced the extremes of morale for 12.1, do you still think this holds true?

well 12.1 is more challenging and i for one applaud this. not allowed lots of coaches/1st team coaches, scouts not willing to join because personal reputation is low.

AND now it's affected team talks. whatever i say they lose interest, i see a challenge ahead: winning over prospective backroom staff, fans, player, board. well done SI!

well every patch should improve the game and in most cases SI do a good job addressing most of the complaints so there is no problem there that i can see that the guys at SI will fix or improve whatever the case may be, my point is i am now really enjoying FM12 as i now have an understanding of what helps or improve my team i am coaching at whatever stage where as in FM11 no matter what you did you always seem to be relying on luck or fluking some unknown choice was how i felt when playing FM11. FM10 i really enjoyed, FM11 was a struggle to enjoy more frustrating than enjoyable but with FM12 i think they have got the balance right with enjoyability versus difficulty a much improved experience this version i find.

Just a quick note i have been playing the franchise since the start and all i can say is the guys at SI have really got something to be proud of here in this franchise of game not many software companies can boast there impressive record with this franchise.

cheers everyone and merry x-mas and a happy new year to you all as i won't be on the forum for awhile as too much merry drinking and fun to be had from now on , here in Port Augusta, South Australia we are expecting 45 deg celcius for X-mas day so have a drink for me guys i will be sweating away lol (probably sweating beer most likely lol).

mike

seeing a lot of questions about team talk since last 2 patches so thought i would bump my thread which i am still having success using for team talks. This still holds true even after latest patches.

Cheers & happy new year guys from down under here in OZ!

mike

By all accounts team talks and player reaction is very important but the whole team talk feature is way too random.

I just used assertive last option at the start of my match and most reacted positively (if being relaxed is positive!). I was 3-0 up so I used passionate last option, the team were delighted and we conceded three goals and drew 3-3. So, I used aggressive last option and they were motivated. It doesn't seem realistic to me.

Is getting any green reaction preferable to nothing at all? If it is then I feel rather like I'm jumping through hoops and applying one size fits all team talks just to get a reaction. It just doesn't feel right. Others on the forum say that assistant manager team talks are rubbish but I feel like I'm playing morale lottery everytime there's a match so I might resort to that.