Player Talks - Apologising [FM2011]

Right,

I started a save on the demo as Liverpool, and transfer listed Christian Poulsen, and offered him out to clubs. Nobody wanted him. So I carried on with him in the reserves, he was moaning about not wanting to leave the club and stuff, I ignored him.

The season started and both Gerrard and Lucas got injured, I needed to bring Poulsen back to the main team, still transfer listed and down as not wanted, he did pretty well, very well in fact. I soon removed him from the transfer list and listed him as squad rotation. He is still unhappy about being listed and offered away in the first place, understandably so.

I made a mistake in telling him he wasn't needed and offering him to anyone who'd take him and would like to be the bigger man, and apologise to him, try get him happy again (currently down as Very Poor moral) and move on. I tried to have a chat to him, to say sorry.

When going onto private chat, he tells him, before I've spoke that he "really doesn't want to leave the club and I've made the media aware that I'm not happy at being forced out."

which is fair enough really, I should tell him he's wanted and will be getting playing time, however I can only pick one of the following four options

'I'm shocked by your attitude...."

"If you don't drop this I'll transfer list you"

"I'm amazed by your unprofessionalism, you're showing no respect"

"I think we should leave this...."

None of those are helpful in the slightest I just want to say "Yeah, sorry about that fella, I was wrong, you're wanted at the club. Sorry"

bit of a moan from me really, hopefully more options of speech can be added in the future to give players a wider variety of things to tell the players.

There have been moments here I have lacked that option too, so i would like to see that option in the game:)

Agreed. Very VERY needed imo!

If he isn't that angry saying 'I'm shocked by your attitude...." sometimes makes him apologize to you. However sometimes it backfires so don't listen to me.

I would agree it needs to be a two way street on most options!

I agree human managers should be able to to try and resolve issues with players. Should have been in the game a couple of versions ago imo.

Being able to talk to players about their 'slight concerns' or 'major concerns' and trying to iron out problems is an important job of a real life manager, and if we are going to have player interaction in FM this should be represented

Agreed.

.

I would agree it needs to be a two way street on most options!

indeed this needs to be ingame!

I second that.

Perhaps the responses were added with Brian Clough in mind - the manager is always right!

But I agree, sometimes a wrong decision (or a wrong click!) can cause havoc, so it would be useful to be able to backtrack a little in your response.

a. Player is transfer listed

b. He complains about it.

c. He has a great game, I change my mind and remove him from the transfer list

d. He demands a transfer

e. I deny the request

His personal page now reads:

General Happiness - Wants to leave the club

Unhappiness Reasons - Doesn't want to leave the club.

Stotteh - sounds like Rooney Syndrome.

I can't express how strongly I agree with this.

When a lot of us, myself included, play Football Manager, to some extent we pretend we are the manager, and our character becomes important to us. We don't want to be forced to be heartless and inhuman bastards in how we deal with players, not when there could be another option

Of course, there should be a negative counter to this - players might start perceiving you as 'soft' if you apologise too much

Agreed! Apologies are a must have if conversation is the new big feature to this game. Also i would like to see the player apologize to the manager if he did something wrong or something he wasnt proud of. Players and managers apologize all the time to each other and the press, this should be included!!!

The players already do apologise a lot. I'm not sure if managers irl apologise to their players for a certain action done intentionally. That would make you look un-manly.

I probably wouldn't use it - because I'm NEVER wrong, obviously - but I agree the option should be there.

Agreed, though had a strange positon with Mokoena on my Portsmouth game

"I think you've played well over the last couple of games"

"I don't think I have"

"I'm sorry if I've upset you"

"Yes, you have"

Hands in a transfer request ...... really?

The private chats are good, but there are a few issues that need sorting. I'd like the option as stated before, and players do seem to overreact a fair bit ... how many times have I seen "I think I'll leave now before I say something I'll regret"! Its hard to repair damage with players made during these chats

From what I'm reading, the risk/benefit ration for these little chats may be too high and I'll just skip them.

From what I'm reading, the risk/benefit ration for these little chats may be too high and I'll just skip them.

iv had to resort to doing this my friend, i only hope this thread gets made into a poll and we can suggest they make changes in the next patch

sorry i dont mean a change i just mean an extra option....something like,i was wrong you were right it wont happen again

From what I'm reading, the risk/benefit ration for these little chats may be too high and I'll just skip them.

Judging from this thread, I think I might follow your lead

100% agreed totally.

I did make a comment about this in another thread, but the OP in this thread has worded it far better!

They really need to be working on a fix for the first patch - if it isn't fixed by then, it'll be a major problem i believe as you really can't do anything about it. And there's nothing more frustrating than knowing you SHOULD be able to at least reconcile differences with players.

In FM10, players moaned about not getting gametime, yet you had options to say if he trained hard enough he'd get games, etc. Lots of options for interactions.

In FM11 (demo), it's like the options have been reduced rather than increased, and that they haven't covered all possibilitys with the answers you can choose.

I can't express how strongly I agree with this.

When a lot of us, myself included, play Football Manager, to some extent we pretend we are the manager, and our character becomes important to us. We don't want to be forced to be heartless and inhuman bastards in how we deal with players, not when there could be another option

Of course, there should be a negative counter to this - players might start perceiving you as 'soft' if you apologise too much

Had this in FM10 - think i'd had a few players banned or sent off, didn't fine them, then had some players unhappy as they thought there wasn't enough discapline

Completely agree. I had this problem with John Utaka at Portsmouth. Transfer listed him due to high wages and after I couldn't get rid of him, I could've done with an option to apologise as he was like eternally unhappy from then on and, given he's on like £60,000 a week, could really do with using him!

playing devil's advocate...

isn't is set up this way to ensure you cant just transfer list players, and offer them around, and make them feel generally pushed aside, and then when no one wants them you just apologise and make it all better?

if irl a manger said publically that he wanted rid of someone and then the player played well, do you think the player would just let it go as if nothing happened?

perhaps the answer is not to have an option to make things right, perhaps the answer is to not upset you players in the first place?

All that having been said, this:

"I think you've played well over the last couple of games"

"I don't think I have"

"I'm sorry if I've upset you"

"Yes, you have"

Hands in a transfer request ...... really?

is bloody ridiculous.

playing devil's advocate...

isn't is set up this way to ensure you cant just transfer list players, and offer them around, and make them feel generally pushed aside, and then when no one wants them you just apologise and make it all better?

if irl a manger said publically that he wanted rid of someone and then the player played well, do you think the player would just let it go as if nothing happened?

If I remember correctly wasn't this the exact thing that happened to Beckham at Madrid under Capello? Capello said he would never play for them again only to change his mind and apologise

indeed this needs to be ingame!

It is a crisis if this is not in the game.

It can also work the other way:

I relegated a player to the reserves (for being rubbish) and he got upset.

I held meeting.

He demanded to be allowed to leave.

I said "yes."

He said "good."

Later he announced in the press that he had resolved his problem with me and was happy to stay.

What part of "you will be transfered as soon a possible" did he miss?

As I said, too risky.

Usually talking to the player BEFORE relegating him or BEFORE transer-listing him helps with the post-situation as the player is expecting your actions? Does this even matter?

Usually talking to the player BEFORE relegating him or BEFORE transer-listing him helps with the post-situation as the player is expecting your actions? Does this even matter?

You wanted to see me, Boss?

Yes, you're rubbish and I'm transfer listing you.

That's not fair. I demand to be transfer listed.

OK. You're transfer listed.

That's great! Can I stay now?

Er...

We all have to admit that this feature just isn't ready to be implemented. I applaud them for trying but it will be the reason I don't get this version. I think they will have it running well for FM12. Of course maybe 11.3 will have made improvements as well.

its the only new feature i am really unhappy with in FM2011

i rarely use player interaction because it seems unfinished to me

playing devil's advocate...

isn't is set up this way to ensure you cant just transfer list players, and offer them around, and make them feel generally pushed aside, and then when no one wants them you just apologise and make it all better?

if irl a manger said publically that he wanted rid of someone and then the player played well, do you think the player would just let it go as if nothing happened?

perhaps the answer is not to have an option to make things right, perhaps the answer is to not upset you players in the first place?

Appreciate what you're saying but the reason I gave him for putting him on the transfer list was that 'the club needs the money from the transfer'. I needed to save the money from the wages to be precise but, yeah, I think you should be able to back-track for certain anomalies. Like someone said earlier, this part of the game will probably be developed further for FM12 so by that time we'll probably have the option to ask certain players to take a pay cut to help the club with its wage bill which would've obviously been the path I would've gone down on this occasion rather than transfer listing my best player.

Right,

I started a save on the demo as Liverpool, and transfer listed Christian Poulsen, and offered him out to clubs. Nobody wanted him. So I carried on with him in the reserves, he was moaning about not wanting to leave the club and stuff, I ignored him.

The season started and both Gerrard and Lucas got injured, I needed to bring Poulsen back to the main team, still transfer listed and down as not wanted, he did pretty well, very well in fact. I soon removed him from the transfer list and listed him as squad rotation. He is still unhappy about being listed and offered away in the first place, understandably so.

I made a mistake in telling him he wasn't needed and offering him to anyone who'd take him and would like to be the bigger man, and apologise to him, try get him happy again (currently down as Very Poor moral) and move on. I tried to have a chat to him, to say sorry.

When going onto private chat, he tells him, before I've spoke that he "really doesn't want to leave the club and I've made the media aware that I'm not happy at being forced out."

which is fair enough really, I should tell him he's wanted and will be getting playing time, however I can only pick one of the following four options

'I'm shocked by your attitude...."

"If you don't drop this I'll transfer list you"

"I'm amazed by your unprofessionalism, you're showing no respect"

"I think we should leave this...."

None of those are helpful in the slightest I just want to say "Yeah, sorry about that fella, I was wrong, you're wanted at the club. Sorry"

bit of a moan from me really, hopefully more options of speech can be added in the future to give players a wider variety of things to tell the players.

Brilliant post mate.

I have the same situation. extra options should be added.

as there was no other option a told player "I think we should leave this" so he requested transfer and now he doesn't want to have a chat!!!!

Sorry if some one has mentioned what I am about to say but i havent got time or effort to read all that ^^^

It is also bad when you ask a player to train something e.g. dribble down the left. or stop shooting with power, and when he refuses all you can say is : ' give it a try' or 'im going to transfer list you for being unprofesiaal'

agree. there should be an option to just say 'ok then, nevermind', and leave the chat

Agree.Happens a lot.

I made a thread about this recently, and agree 100%.

Sorry to say SI, but they have messed up quite alot by giving us no middle-road option in regard to interaction. There is no room for negotiation or placating a player, and so we have no choice but to argue with them. This will imperative to the game, not sure what's so difficult about implementing a n option to say something like;

'Don't worry, keep working hard and you will get a chance/you are in my future plans/i still rate you highly', etc etc

That's all we need.

It's a good addition, but it's very poorly written.

in my first quick load demo game at barcelona i asked carles puyol to tutor one of my u-18 cb's and the exact same thing happened, within a fortnight of starting the demo and before my first real friendly puyol wanted to leave the club, can we please have chat options that are both postive and negative in these situations...conversations are always 2 sided, wether or not the manager or player is naturally stubborn..

since then 2 similar chats have happened in my game, both now have been after listening to advice from my backroom too!!!!

please SI, can you sort this?

Had the same thing myself. It's a half arsed addition to the game that should have an option to turn off completely.

Oh wow, the whole forum agreeing on one thing. Shock horror

Sorry to say SI, but they have messed up quite alot by giving us no middle-road option in regard to interaction. There is no room for negotiation or placating a player, and so we have no choice but to argue with them. This will imperative to the game, not sure what's so difficult about implementing a n option to say something like;

'Don't worry, keep working hard and you will get a chance/you are in my future plans/i still rate you highly', etc etc

That's all we need.

Took the words right out of my mouth...

Luckily, I cheld a private chat with James Millner and Carlos Tevez yesterday. I praised Tevez's form in the last game (7.8 rating) he was happy, and played just as good in the next game (7.6 or 7.9, don't remember). I told James Millner he should play better (5.8 rating) and he was understanding (+happy when I checked the 'personal' tab in his profile). Next game James Millner gets a 7.5 rating.

Just thought I might as well add SOME positivity to this thread.. I know I suffered from this Player Interaction thing with Santa Cruz, he wanted First Team football, which I already WANTED to give him, I just wanted the option to SAY it so I can ease SOME of his concerns (so it doesn't affect his performance when I do play him)

No "you'll get a chance to prove yourself real soon", Strangely enough, such an option was available on FM 10 :confused: Santa Cruz is ****ed now and doesn't even wanna talk.. He did score 2 goals for me in 2 seperate games, and through team talks, he's morale is now 'Okay', so I'm getting there!

I have no Idea how this got by the internal QA or the ' Beta testers '

The feature is far from ready, at best its half finished and poorly implemented, at worst it is completely game breaking.

The guys at SI must have read all the negative feedback regarding player conversations, surely one of them can let us know if its being worked on or if they see at as working as intended.

I'm not sure just adding one or two more options on to the list of player interaction responses will fix this tbh. Ok maybe it'll be a short-cut fix to a specific problem, but the underlying problem for me is that player interaction (along with press conferences etc) are so limiting and thus become boring and irrelevant pretty quickly. The whole man-mangement side of the game is pretty much non-existant due to the limited "scripted" responses and reactions we get.

I wrote a whole post outlining an idea of expanding the man-management aspect of the game so it adds a lot more scope and variety to the game, giving us a lot more options and outcomes when dealing with this kind of stuff, unfortunatley there doesn't seem to be an ideas forum to post such stuff on. I'll probably just email SI directly with it instead.

Basically SI have given you roleplaying tools, but only allowed you to play the role of a stern, uncompromising asshole.

Maybe it gets better if players have a great deal of trust and respect in you. I've been avoiding saying anything potentially controversial to my players or demanding anything of them in this first season, so that we can build up a bond through results on the field that allows me to go asking things of them in future.

I hope that's how it works, anyway.

I have no Idea how this got by the internal QA or the ' Beta testers '

The feature is far from ready, at best its half finished and poorly implemented, at worst it is completely game breaking.

The guys at SI must have read all the negative feedback regarding player conversations, surely one of them can let us know if its being worked on or if they see at as working as intended.

Beta testers have to test the entire game in their free time, all of them have day job and family to worry about. And they have already report a lot of bugs that you can't even begin to imagine. How about to give some credit to Beta testers?

I'm not sure just adding one or two more options on to the list of player interaction responses will fix this tbh. Ok maybe it'll be a short-cut fix to a specific problem, but the underlying problem for me is that player interaction (along with press conferences etc) are so limiting and thus become boring and irrelevant pretty quickly. The whole man-mangement side of the game is pretty much non-existant due to the limited "scripted" responses and reactions we get.

I wrote a whole post outlining an idea of expanding the man-management aspect of the game so it adds a lot more scope and variety to the game, giving us a lot more options and outcomes when dealing with this kind of stuff, unfortunatley there doesn't seem to be an ideas forum to post such stuff on. I'll probably just email SI directly with it instead.

Well, i have no doubt that Si check the forums and these kinds of threads, my advice is you to post your suggestion on wish list post if you haven't already.

Beta testers have to test the entire game in their free time, all of them have day job and family to worry about. And they have already report a lot of bugs that you can't even begin to imagine. How about to give some credit to Beta testers?

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If they don't have the time to test the game properly they have no place being a beta tester.

Rule #6: Never apologize — Its a sign of weakness.