Football Manager 2014 - Update 14.2.2 - Feedback Thread

[Dagenham_Dave]

Not excessively so? 79 against 56. That is a 41% difference and that is very statistically significant. Also, in my game we're 15 matches into the season, IRL we're about 17. So, re-wind that by 2 matches and that 41% figure would be greater still.

The problem here is that you're comparing real life to just your save. I have a save on FM Classic just now where all games from around November onwards have been since 14.2 was introduced, and across the whole season in the Premier League there have only been 30 goals in total scored from corners, and it's now April. Which is considerably fewer than in real life. I have another save where they are slightly higher. And therein lies the issue, every save is different. You can tell this by the wildly differing opinions on this latest update alone.

[Lord Rowell]

The problem here is that you're comparing real life to just your save. I have a save on FM Classic just now where all games from around November onwards have been since 14.2 was introduced, and across the whole season in the Premier League there have only been 30 goals in total scored from corners, and it's now April. Which is considerably fewer than in real life. I have another save where they are slightly higher. And therein lies the issue, every save is different. You can tell this by the wildly differing opinions on this latest update alone.

That's a fair call re. my save and you're right of course, it is just my save. A lot of evidence on here will by nature be anecdotal. But SI can collate all that data and experiences of individual users - that's why they ask for as many bug reports, save-game files, pkms etc. as possible because then they can analyse all that data.

Also, I'd like to think by posting what I did, it at least validates the experience of other players who have seen in their saves lots of goals from corners - sometimes being validated is important to us human beings

One more thing, you said your stats were from FM Classic? I know the ME as we experience it as human players is the same in FM Classic as the full fat version of FM. Are other matches played to the same depth i.e. between AI teams in FM Classic? I'm asking, as I don't know. The answer to that one (please help, SI staff? ) would inform our discussion.

[Dagenham_Dave]

One more thing, you said your stats were from FM Classic? I know the ME as we experience it as human players is the same in FM Classic as the full fat version of FM. Are other matches played to the same depth i.e. between AI teams in FM Classic? I'm asking, as I don't know. The answer to that one (please help, SI staff? ) would inform our discussion.

I think it's the same as the main game, in that any playable leagues where you're able to view highlights of games rather than just get the match stats have all games fully simmed whereas other leagues won't be so indepth. As far as I know anyway.

[Dagenham_Dave]

So, like I said, I normally just stick to Classic for most saves now, but I went back to my old St Albans save on the main game. This is the first time I've played a match on the main game at Skrill regional level since the update. There's 28 minutes gone here...

It's been one defensive calamity after another, balls are pinging about everywhere with no-one really showing anything approaching skill. Well done SI for finally getting the visual representation of the Skrill South bang on!

[glenn28]

To many own goals & the contract bug needs to be fixed

[themadsheep2001]

That's a fair call re. my save and you're right of course, it is just my save. A lot of evidence on here will by nature be anecdotal. But SI can collate all that data and experiences of individual users - that's why they ask for as many bug reports, save-game files, pkms etc. as possible because then they can analyse all that data.

Also, I'd like to think by posting what I did, it at least validates the experience of other players who have seen in their saves lots of goals from corners - sometimes being validated is important to us human beings

One more thing, you said your stats were from FM Classic? I know the ME as we experience it as human players is the same in FM Classic as the full fat version of FM. Are other matches played to the same depth i.e. between AI teams in FM Classic? I'm asking, as I don't know. The answer to that one (please help, SI staff? ) would inform our discussion.

The problem here is that you're comparing real life to just your save. I have a save on FM Classic just now where all games from around November onwards have been since 14.2 was introduced, and across the whole season in the Premier League there have only been 30 goals in total scored from corners, and it's now April. Which is considerably fewer than in real life. I have another save where they are slightly higher. And therein lies the issue, every save is different. You can tell this by the wildly differing opinions on this latest update alone.

Both right really, and ideally everyone would provide info in the manner Lord Rowell did.

One thing I think is worth looking at if possible, apologies if ive missed it: number of corners per game in FM compared to real life. That then gives the ratio of goals scored from them, then you can start to look at if the numbers of corner goals is too high, or if the number is actually right (in terms of percentage), but there are actually too many corners initially

[Lord Rowell]

Both right really, and ideally everyone would provide info in the manner Lord Rowell did.

One thing I think is worth looking at if possible, apologies if ive missed it: number of corners per game in FM compared to real life. That then gives the ratio of goals scored from them, then you can start to look at if the numbers of corner goals is too high, or if the number is actually right (in terms of percentage), but there are actually too many corners initially

Thanks for this and I agree with you re. number of corners. I think I already posted similar somewhere in this thread - in fact I think it was in my latest "update" on my view of 14.2 - the long post I made earlier today.

Edit: Yes I did - see below from original post.

2. Too many goals resulting from set-piece situations esp. corners. I'm wondering if this is because there are too many corners though?

3. I'm still seeing too many shots on goal in some games. I wonder if there is a connection between 2 & 3? Is there possibly a change needs to be made with respect to how each phase of play ends?

I'm off to bed soon but if I get time I'll have a look for this stat - or in the meantime someone else can folow up on this.

[Pelinho1990]

the second beta version was the best and only ok version of the fm 2014 yet...

[jimbob1000]

Not sure if anyone from SI is about(you should be hiding) but it seems my posts are only showing up to SI staff.

I have PM'ed 2 Moderators and a member of staff(who gave me an infraction for swearing in a post nobody could read) with no reply.

I am not spamming, would just like an answer after all usual attempts to achieve one have failed.

Thanks

[Ryknow]

Tackle Success Rate

As other have stated in here the tackle success rate is ridiculously high. I'm regularly seeing 85% or more for a team, both my side and the opposition. Find it rare to see below 70% whereas IRL the figures usually range from 30%-60% for a match. This happens in AI v AI matches too.

Judging by Squawka.com most top defensive players average around 50-60% tackle success rate, whereas I don't have a single defensive player below 85%. Even my strikers are averaging above 65%.

Quite a large difference and it is very evident when viewing matches on comprehensive. However, kind of worried that reducing it to a realistic amount could result in more problems (eg. Forwards just running past defenders). I guess a lot of testing will be needed, so goodluck.

[Hit the upright]

Simply put, corners and GKs aside this is the best representation of football I’ve seen from an FM game, no its not perfect but I would advise SI not to tinker too much now. It’s never been hard in my book to create successful tactics and put together a successful side but getting them to look like they are playing real football has proved much harder.

[RTHerringbone]

Tackle Success Rate

As other have stated in here the tackle success rate is ridiculously high. I'm regularly seeing 85% or more for a team, both my side and the opposition. Find it rare to see below 70% whereas IRL the figures usually range from 30%-60% for a match. This happens in AI v AI matches too.

Judging by Squawka.com most top defensive players average around 50-60% tackle success rate, whereas I don't have a single defensive player below 85%. Even my strikers are averaging above 65%.

Quite a large difference and it is very evident when viewing matches on comprehensive. However, kind of worried that reducing it to a realistic amount could result in more problems (eg. Forwards just running past defenders). I guess a lot of testing will be needed, so goodluck.

It entirely depends on what source you compare against.

Resources like WhoScored and the BBC have Tackle Success Rates in keeping with those we see in FM.

Different places compile statistics with differing methodologies, so there are bound to be differences to some of those reported statistics.

[trueblue]

well thats just annoying ,,,, had no choice but to boot up game (window update).. steam gives option, install update or launch. Given all the negative feedback and as i am near end of a close fought lg campaign with only a 3 point lead decided against the update and clicked launch

Game doesn't launch,, so after awhile i double click again on FM shortcut

,, games loads up (no options given this time),,, go to preferences,, and there it is 14.2 !!!!

Where is the option then ???

This really should be optional for even a small time-frame,, there will always be plenty players ready to jump in and start testing their new update as soon as available ,, and plenty others who want to hold back ,, at least until their current season is over

[jimbob1000]

Not sure if anyone from SI is about(you should be hiding) but it seems my posts are only showing up to SI staff.

I have PM'ed 2 Moderators and a member of staff(who gave me an infraction for swearing in a post nobody could read) with no reply.

I am not spamming, would just like an answer after all usual attempts to achieve one have failed.

Thanks

Seriously, just give me a clue as to why my posts aint showing please.

This is nearly as bad as FM SI, come on...................

[ThePinnacle]

Just lost 4-1 to QPR, now I can accept that as I am a much smaller team. What I cannot accept is that they scored all four from corners. Is this a bug?

Also next game I lost 1-0 to Ipswich, again a corner, but I can accept that as it's only one. That happens in football.

[Kriss]

Just lost 4-1 to QPR, now I can accept that as I am a much smaller team. What I cannot accept is that they scored all four from corners. Is this a bug?

Also next game I lost 1-0 to Ipswich, again a corner, but I can accept that as it's only one. That happens in football.

I think we're all agreed it can be too easy to concede from corners atm, there are tactical ways to mitigate this and the tactics forum is worth a look.

It's not a simple case of everybody suffering equally but I'd still expect it to get attention for the next update.

[bartdude]

Improvements with EVERY edition of FM and the updates but I doubt it'll ever shut up the whingers.

[GabrieleGallagher]

Borussia Dortmund 0-4 Hertha Berlino

Shots 34-7 (15-7 on target)

CCC 1-3

Poss 63-37

I play Hertha

(Took a screenshot but can't upload it.)

[jimbob1000]

I think we're all agreed it can be too easy to concede from corners atm, there are tactical ways to mitigate this and the tactics forum is worth a look.

It's not a simple case of everybody suffering equally but I'd still expect it to get attention for the next update.

Can YOU see my posts?

[ThePinnacle]

I think we're all agreed it can be too easy to concede from corners atm, there are tactical ways to mitigate this and the tactics forum is worth a look.

It's not a simple case of everybody suffering equally but I'd still expect it to get attention for the next update.

Thanks Kriss, it's abit random as it wasn't happening before the patch. Also it's a strange one as it only happens every so often, it's just a case of when it happens it goes abit mad with three or four corners in one game.

[ThePinnacle]

Improvements with EVERY edition of FM and the updates but I doubt it'll ever shut up the whingers.

This is truly the best game in the football manager series so far, it's just been a case of glaring errors each update which I guess are a knock on effect of which ever part of the engine has been updated. I mean the other thing is that I cannot play my Brazil save at the moment as I do not have enough players to cover the under 23 ruling.

Either way it will be fixed soon I'm sure and SI are very good at sorting these problems, unlike other games companies.

[zeeriboy]

How does the match engine actually work? Does it take into account our tactics and the quality of our players, then calculate a result? Is that result then manifested in the number of goals rather than the quality thereof? What I'm trying to say is that if I were to get my tactics wrong, but my striker (in this case Lewandowksi/Giroud) has a one-on-one/a pretty easy chance for a striker of their quality, does the match engine make them miss? It can't seem right they can miss a handful of chances, only for a significantly weaker side to hit me on the break and score with one of their few shots. This goes hand in hand with what has been said before about there being no discernible difference in the technical abilities of Lewandowski, and say Jason Scotland. I think tactics are given far too much weight in this game. It's actually quite pernicious. If we've got tactics wrong against a weaker side, rather than the match engine showing us what appear to be easy chances that the strikers are missing, it shouldn't be showing us anything at all, and it certainly shouldn't be making the strong team lose in order to make its point. I've been doing fine in the game but there are too many grievances for the game to be enjoyed to its fullest I think, and this one about the over-emphasis on tactics is by far the gravest.

EDIT - Just to add, I've been playing a while now on the latest patch and I'm so happy to see the back of all those bloody lobbed goals. But an abundance of own goals, a lack of brain cells in GKs, awful first touch and a nasty increase in injuries have taken pride of place in the list of problems with this patch. Also I really don't think there are enough late goals in this game. I've never scored one in my 4 seasons and I think I only just conceded my first (by late I mean 85 min + ).

[davidmn27]

Is anyone else having trouble with first touches? I've not got time to read through all these comments.

It seems that my players have lost some ability when it comes to controlling the ball since 14.2. I'm still doing ok, scraping wins, but my build up play seems to have deteriorated.

Any tips anyone? Does fast paced counter-attacking not work as well anymore? Thanks

[zeeriboy]

Is anyone else having trouble with first touches? I've not got time to read through all these comments.

It seems that my players have lost some ability when it comes to controlling the ball since 14.2. I'm still doing ok, scraping wins, but my build up play seems to have deteriorated.

Any tips anyone? Does fast paced counter-attacking not work as well anymore? Thanks

It's only common courtesy to have a read before posting and not to explicitly say you don't have time to read the comments. But in answer to your question, yes. The quality of first touch has plummeted. I'm not sure whether SI are acknowledging this as a problem, if it all though.

[Lord Rowell]

Just lost 4-1 to QPR, now I can accept that as I am a much smaller team. What I cannot accept is that they scored all four from corners. Is this a bug?

Also next game I lost 1-0 to Ipswich, again a corner, but I can accept that as it's only one. That happens in football.

My gut instinct is that when team A applies a lot of pressure to team B, this results in an excessive amount of corners and hence and excessive amount of goals, rather than from a variety of open-play situations you'd see when a goalmouth is under siege. The problem is probably too many corners and excessive effectiveness of maybe strength / tacking / blocking by defenders in those situations.

I think the results we're probably seeing now are a fair reflection of the match and the teams involved, its just that the way some of the goals are scored i.e. too many from corners, is a little distorted. As Kriss said, I'd be confident this is already on SI's radar.

[dazbowski]

It's only common courtesy to have a read before posting and not to explicitly say you don't have time to read the comments. But in answer to your question, yes. The quality of first touch has plummeted. I'm not sure whether SI are acknowledging this as a problem, if it all though.

Read 11 pages?

[danburrage]

Would be great if they removed the new 'Stroll Mode' feature that's come with this update. A day in the life on the game has become. My team break and the striker is a mile ahead of aanyone but by time he's gone a few yards walking with ball he's got 11 players in this way, then the opposition get the ball and clear it to midfield. Great, it's heading back towards one of my player but he walks towards and the opposition run and get the ball, they break but it's ok most of my players are in this way but a through ball is played and my defenders all stop to watch to see what happens, they see what happens... It's a goal. Over and over and over. Did running, determination, anticipation, brain cells all get turned off?

It's frustrating to watch one of my players tackle but not get the ball, stick out a foot and win the tackle then wait for their player to regain possession.

It is possible to get back the previous patch? The only issues I had with that was the little bit annoying but amusing every free kick hits cross bar and the more frustrating when an overlapping from opposition happens my defenders have a habit of stopping. That was two things. Now it's countless.

[davidmn27]

Cheers Zeeriboy,

I have a 30 minute lunch break so 11 pages isn't doable; getting the answer from someone helpful within 3 minutes is, so thanks again

Any tips on coping with this problem? I assume slower passing, but that negates my counter strategy!

I've only played a couple of games on 14.2 so thought I'd check on other people people progress....if thats allowed!?

[zeeriboy]

Lol ok fair enough, sorry, maybe not 11 pages but the most recent 2 or 3 pages. That's what I usually do. Anyway. I'm not sure what to suggest for that - I don't play counter-attacking football really. That said, if it's any help I play with slower passing and usually lower/much lower tempo and I still see awful first touches.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Loving the way strikers can actually head the ball down the way now, makes for a better variety of goals.

[davidmn27]

No worries

I'll have a few games tonight and see if I can improve my play then

Other than the new ME seems really good, nice variety of chances, decent defensive blocks, better pressing. Just need to sort out the first touch!!

[zeeriboy]

And the whole players colliding with one another... that is sooooooooooo annoying. And SO unrealistic.

[Bill_Strevros]

In the change list for this update there is this

- Made it harder for player to kill pace on fast moving ball especially at speed

I guess this change is part of the reason that first touch has been made worse by the patch. Perhaps it was too far one way previously, I never really noticed, and now it is too far the other way now, not sure but players do seem to have a heavy first touch a lot of the time.

[Ryknow]

It entirely depends on what source you compare against.

Resources like WhoScored and the BBC have Tackle Success Rates in keeping with those we see in FM.

Different places compile statistics with differing methodologies, so there are bound to be differences to some of those reported statistics.

Last time I checked Whoscored it just shows the amount of successful tackles, not total attempted?

Anyways, how about just watching football? It's rare to see a player consistently win 85% of tackles attempted over a full season, yet it's happening to the majority of defensive players. Data is always going to be different as people's opinions vary between what constitutes as an attempted tackle though, but it's seems far too high in game.

The tackles per games seem varied in FM too. According to WhoScored the higher tacklers average around 4 tackles per game, Squawka is slightly less. My two fullbacks average 7 tackles per game (85% won). I have to go down to 20th spot in the tackles per game league stats to find a player who isn't a fullback in my league (SPL). Whereas, in other playable leagues the top 10 is dominated by DCs and DMs, which seems fair albeit very high tackles per game figures.

Stats aside, just by looking at games in comprehensive highlights whenever a player goes in for a tackle he wins it too often. I hardly see any failed tackle attempts, especially sliding tackles.

[Lord Rowell]

Thanks for this and I agree with you re. number of corners. I think I already posted similar somewhere in this thread - in fact I think it was in my latest "update" on my view of 14.2 - the long post I made earlier today.

I'm off to bed soon but if I get time I'll have a look for this stat - or in the meantime someone else can folow up on this.

OK I can follow up on this now.

From http://www.footstats.co.uk/ I found the following data on corners per game. This is up to 23/12/13. There is an option on that site to select data for full seasons going over a decade back. In all honesty, the corner count per team doesn't seem to vary all that much, as I'd expect.

Edit - strange I've gone back to that site and can't find the data! Anyway you can get similar data here http://www.footcharts.co.uk/

Edit2 - sorry it is also on original link but bizarrely you have to look under "league tables" to find it.

So, how does real life compare with FM14 v14.2?

As aforementioned, 14.2 kicked in at pre-season for me so its a good benchmark for my current season, 2015/16.

I don't think there's a way to get the total number of corners so I just picked 3 sets of matches for comparison. I tried to go back to September but data for some matches going this far back hadn't been saved. This isn't totally scientific of course, its just a little snapshot of what is going on.

Tues-Weds 1st-2nd Dec 2015 - 153 corners (ish, I think), range between 7 and 21 corners per game. My match had 21.

Sat-Sun 24th-25th Oct 2015 - 124 corners, range between 7 and 21 again. My match had 9.

Sat-Mon 3rd-5th Oct 2015 - 142 corners, range between 11 and 17. My match had 17.

Edit: Where my games were the top corner count, I should point out that another match in the Prem that weekend would come close to my total, so my own game isn't providing data that is an outlier.

So, adding up the columns. Corners (F) column comes to 101.9. Corners (A) comes to 100.3. Pretty close though they should be the same? Perhaps my adding / calc entry.

But they're close enough, average of about 101 corners per game on a Prem weekend. So, based on that snapshot, it would suggest corners in FM14 14.2 are at about 20%-50% higher than IRL, including the human player (me).

Just out of interest, I went through more of my own games. Some of my games do have a high corner count (to me!) though not all of them. I wonder if this is something common to the way human players set up their teams and play the matches? That said I do have a good young side now (Man Utd) who are at present unbeaten in the league and very defensively resilient, and I do play control, applying pressure to teams, esp. at home.

That aside, even if you strip out my games from that data, the corner count is still well above real life.

[benjawi.]

Just did a system restore to before I updated the game. Happy days, just told Steam not to update it.

[Bill_Strevros]

Lord Rowell, very interesting.

There does seem to be too many corners then, although whether that follows in all saves or across all leagues is perhaps another question.

More generally I am just wondering whether there is just too much in total in the games produced by the match engine.

Is there just too many events in the game so when it is tweaked to bring something under control something else has to go up above what is realistic to fill in the time?

Does the whole match engine need to slow down a little bit against the clock?

It would require a large scale statistical analysis to determine though.

[themadsheep2001]

At no point is any of what you said remotely constructive or useful feedback, Pemell. More to the point, referring to the 1000+ posts suggests you haven't been reading them, because the contents vary hugely

[themadsheep2001]

Lord Rowell, very interesting.

There does seem to be too many corners then, although whether that follows in all saves or across all leagues is perhaps another question.

More generally I am just wondering whether there is just too much in total in the games produced by the match engine.

Is there just too many events in the game so when it is tweaked to bring something under control something else has to go up above what is realistic to fill in the time?

Does the whole match engine need to slow down a little bit against the clock?

It would require a large scale statistical analysis to determine though.

I actually think it could be something much "simpler", i think defensive players don't place enough priority trying not to give away coners. Just a theory for now, will follow it up over christmas.

[Ryknow]

*snip*

How would this be changed though? Have you studied how the majority of corners come about? I've noticed since FM07, defenders seem to clear the ball out for a corner when they could maybe clear it up the field or fairly easily put it out for a throw. Instead the defender doesn't assess the risk of handing a corner to the opposition, whereas IRL defenders will actively try and avoid gifting the opposition a corner. I saw a few instances today while playing, where the ball was going out but the defender, for some reason, got a touch on it or booted it out. Realistically the defender would let the ball go. Both these examples defenders are under no pressure.

I think it these situations are tweaked it could lower the corners per game by a bit. Not considerable amount but enough to start to bring the figure down to a more realistic one. However, I'm not holding my breathe as this has been in FM for ages.

EDIT: By the time I'd wrote this, madsheep just did the same thing. Glad to see others notice it. But don't think it's patch material.

[Lord Rowell]

Lord Rowell, very interesting.

There does seem to be too many corners then, although whether that follows in all saves or across all leagues is perhaps another question.

More generally I am just wondering whether there is just too much in total in the games produced by the match engine.

Is there just too many events in the game so when it is tweaked to bring something under control something else has to go up above what is realistic to fill in the time?

Does the whole match engine need to slow down a little bit against the clock?

It would require a large scale statistical analysis to determine though.

I agree with you here. I daresay once again PaulC and his team are very aware of this and probably have a good idea of the cause. Fixing it without causing an imbalance somewhere else e.g. all teams permanently recycling the ball a la tiki-taka, is another matter.

[Lord Rowell]

How would this be changed though? Have you studied how the majority of corners come about? I've noticed since FM07, defenders seem to clear the ball out for a corner when they could maybe clear it up the field or fairly easily put it out for a throw. Instead the defender doesn't assess the risk of handing a corner to the opposition, whereas IRL defenders will actively try and avoid gifting the opposition a corner. I saw a few instances today while playing, where the ball was going out but the defender, for some reason, got a touch on it or booted it out. Realistically the defender would let the ball go. Both these examples defenders are under no pressure.

I think it these situations are tweaked it could lower the corners per game by a bit. Not considerable amount but enough to start to bring the figure down to a more realistic one. However, I'm not holding my breathe as this has been in FM for ages.

EDIT: By the time I'd wrote this, madsheep just did the same thing. Glad to see others notice it. But don't think it's patch material.

I haven't gone into that depth and I don't intend to. I agree with what you suggest here. My posting this data follows on from a conversation about the number of corners in FM14 and IRL, so I was really just attempting to provide a small contribution to the answer to that question, to inform the discussion further.

[Fancy Gaffot]

Is there any news on hotfixes? 70% of goals I see are near post shots.

[Matorko]

No. Do what we do - reload forums every 5 sec and pray.

[Lord Rowell]

I don't think SI will release anything now and tbh I'd rather they didn't.

I think where 14.2 is now is pretty good and very playable. This is actually for me, now, the first time I've settled properly into the game and feel I can play my matches without fighting quirks & faults in the ME.

IMO the problems now are mostly cosmetic. That said, SI should take their time fixing them to make sure the fixes are right.

I do have bad memories of FM13 when they released a patch / update before Xmas and it was a disaster. They then rushed out a hotfix before Xmas but even then it wasn't right until January and pretty much ruined my Xmas time enjoyment of FM. I do genuinely think SI have learned from this now as each update does seem more considered, thoroughly tested, and there is clear progress each time, at least IMO.

[pemell]

At no point is any of what you said remotely constructive or useful feedback, Pemell. More to the point, referring to the 1000+ posts suggests you haven't been reading them, because the contents vary hugely

Look at my join date and look if I've posted something like this before. The answer is No.

That's why you probably should value the point I'm trying to express. The game with the latest patch is no longer playable. I don't know which routines you guys have these days before releasing patches but I think you should look to improve those. Because this time you really messed up. Period.

And out of respect, don't delete this. I'm on topic as I give feedback on the latest patch and there are no offensive words. I don't think your duty is to look over all posts being made and delete all you personally don't find constructive.

[willz71172]

I don't think SI will release anything now and tbh I'd rather they didn't.

I think where 14.2 is now is pretty good and very playable. This is actually for me, now, the first time I've settled properly into the game and feel I can play my matches without fighting quirks & faults in the ME.

IMO the problems now are mostly cosmetic. That said, SI should take their time fixing them to make sure the fixes are right.

I do have bad memories of FM13 when they released a patch / update before Xmas and it was a disaster. They then rushed out a hotfix before Xmas but even then it wasn't right until January and pretty much ruined my Xmas time enjoyment of FM. I do genuinely think SI have learned from this now as each update does seem more considered, thoroughly tested, and there is clear progress each time, at least IMO.

better hope you dont get sacked since you cant get a job with the update

[CityAndColour]

I actually think it could be something much "simpler", i think defensive players don't place enough priority trying not to give away coners. Just a theory for now, will follow it up over christmas.

I made this point earlier in the thread - it's not so much the amount of corners, it's the fact defenders don't seem to place value on not giving them away and often actively look to concede them. In real life if a defender slides in near the corner flag or adjacent to the side of the box, he'll try to hook it out for a throw. Not to mention clearing headers in the box - putting it back out for a corner should be the option only if it can't be safely cleared back out of the box elsewhere. On this ME you often see defenders near the penalty spot heading it directly back out for corners.

The default deflection on the ball always seems to result in corners too - I'd like to see more tackles and blocks go out for throws, especially higher up the pitch, rather than always defaulting to corners.

I also think the decreasing of first touch has been massively exaggerated by the aggressive nature of tackling and the high success rates.

As always it's a balancing issue.

[bieritarier]

Guys, does anyone else have the problem that virtually no player wants to join your club?

Coming of consecutive CL wins with FC Bayern and since the update almost no player wants to join. Scouts report that the guys would have no intention to join, even players from pretty low reputation clubs, let alone the big guns. This'll mean that I will struggle heavily to replace Ribéry, Schweinsteiger and Lahm next year.

I also can'T really got a lot of youth players to join. They are not interested, no matter whom they play for.

As for the ME, there's too high an amount (and success rate) of wild last ditch tackles, first touch is awful. Look like the game cannot distinguish whether a player is trying to receive a long, high ball while running at full speed and a grounded pass while standing. Also, the first touch attribute doesn'T really seem to make any difference.

And lastly, unless you constanly tiker with your dline and mentality players are to damn idiotic to understand that it's a bit pointless if 4 or five of them stand next to the opposition CBs/full backs. Even wide midfielders do it when on an attack duty.

All of the tackle success for mediocre or bad defenders plus the ME's heavy focus on strength make it so hard for quick, technical teams to have any joy when favorites at home. The other team, no matter how bad, will just defend and you're lucky to score 1 or 2, mostly off corners.

[bieritarier]

I made this point earlier in the thread - it's not so much the amount of corners, it's the fact defenders don't seem to place value on not giving them away and often actively look to concede them. In real life if a defender slides in near the corner flag or adjacent to the side of the box, he'll try to hook it out for a throw. Not to mention clearing headers in the box - putting it back out for a corner should be the option only if it can't be safely cleared back out of the box elsewhere. On this ME you often see defenders near the penalty spot heading it directly back out for corners.

The default deflection on the ball always seems to result in corners too - I'd like to see more tackles and blocks go out for throws, especially higher up the pitch, rather than always defaulting to corners.

I also think the decreasing of first touch has been massively exaggerated by the aggressive nature of tackling and the high success rates.

As always it's a balancing issue.

re corners, add to the problem that defenders are constantly heading the ball to the edge of the box, into the middle (if they don'T put it out for another corner). I've seen countless goas from a clearance that was smaeshed home by a guy attacking the box from deep I've lost count of it.