Pairs & Combinations Part 7: Building My Team

[llama3]

Introduction

This is part 7 of the Pairs & Combinations Threads; and in this article we look at Building your team, or more specifically, how I build my team. This is the final article in the series, I hope it has been useful. I may release these all as a single pdf guide (if I get them time!). I will explain my decision making and concepts that make me build my teams. I am going to use my Arsenal team, but it has concepts that you can apply to all of your team building though.

Formation, Philosophy & Style

Before you start thinking about your individual roles and duties, you have to have an idea how you want to play. However even that is not as straight forward. My favourite formation is 4-2-3-1, because of the defensive structure and versatility, but great attacking movement combinations it offers. If my team had no wide attacking midfielders though it would be pointless, the formation would be ineffective, so I have to make sure I have genuine options there - this means enough players for each position. If I have a solitary right winger, and a solitary left winger then I cannot hope to use this for up to 60-70 games per season, I need options to rotate. The formation may not suit the players too. I may have options, but if the players are all low quality in those positions, I may be better off choosing another approach to get the best out of my squad. Certain formations suit certain styles too, a 4-2-3-1 is very versatile, a 4-1-2-2-1 (4-5-1/4-3-3) suits possession systems well, a 4-4-2 is very simple to use, a 3-4-3 allows excellent pressing and pitch coverage.

Choosing your style is not just about formation, but about the quality of your players, and particularly the squad's inherent abilities. My team report is the best place to start, where I can establish my team is a good technical team, fairly pacy in defence and attack, good teamwork, but poor strength, aggression & tackling in general. So my team is suited to creative & technical football. We have good teamwork, fairly good energy, but poor aggression & tackling, which suggests I need to adapt my pressing on a game-by-game basis - pressing when I need to, and sitting compact when I don't, there is no point me pressing Chelsea or Man City all over the pitch away from home, but the majority of my home games it is probably worthwhile.

Finally on the subject of Philosophy, I have several playmaking types (including my best player, Mesut Ozil), a few different varieties of Centre Forwards (the strong, aerial Giroud, or the quick goalscoring Podolski & Walcott), a clear Ball-Winning player in midfielder (Flamini with high aggression, stamina, teamwork & workrate), plus the potential for a few more. However I do not like to neglect the team ethic to my side, and so I will Balance the specialism with a team structure too.

So, after looking at all of this, here are the decisions I have made:

• 4-2-3-1 Formation - We have a lot of Natural AMC players, and it is where my best players play, it allows for ball retention too, which suits my technical team
  
• Balanced Philosophy - to allow a mixture of specialism & team play
  
• Short Passing - To promote ball retention, suits the technical style of the team
  
• Variable Pressing - Plan A - high line, pressing style - Plan B - low block, compact & counter-attacking style

Building the Roles & Duties

Ever since I was young, I have always learned & felt that building from the back is how you build a successful team, a principle I always apply, even in respect of a team with players like Cazorla, Wilshere & Ozil. I stick to the rules I have outlined in the other P&C guides to achieve this too. So, I start with the Goalkeeper & Defence first.

Goalkeeper & Defence

My first choice Goalkeeper is Wojciech Szczesny, who is an excellent aerial goalkeeper, as well as a good shot-stopper too. He is not quick & his distribution is mediocre, he therefore is not the creative type needed for a Sweeper Keeper. So I play him as a Goalkeeper - Defend. If I feel the need to play a Sweeper Keeper then Lukasz Fabianski is in reserve & significantly improves the role compare to Szczesny. I want to play out from the back, so give Szczesny an individual instruction to distribute to defenders.

Looking at the full-backs, Kieran Gibbs & Nacho Monreal offer far more offensively than Bacary Sagna & Carl Jenkinson do. So my left backs will be attack duties, and the right backs support duties, due to their good energy. I will decide the roles later on in the wide slots, in the centre I want to play out from the back, but I have more creative options in midfield, so standard Central Defender roles in the middle. In central defence I have the options to play Stopper-Cover with Thomas Vermaelen & Laurent Koscielny possessing the aggression needed to be good stoppers, with Laurent Koscielny & Per Mertesacker possessing the best positional awareness to play as Covering defenders. If I want to play a high line and offside trap, a defend-defend combination is better for team shape. In the end I go for a Defend-Defend pairing in the centre.

So now my team looks like this:

Goalkeeper - Defend

Undecided - Support - Central Defender - Defend - Central Defender - Defend - Undecided - Attack

Central Midfield

Because of my 4-2-3-1 system, the 2 Central Midfielders need to offer some defensive protection. I am not a big fan of both players in the same strata being on Defend duties only, so I am going to split my duties. It is easy to decide which way round they should go, because the defend duty should be on the same side as your attacking full back. The supporting midfielder will sit the same side as the supporting full back. I already have a good idea what roles I want in my team in midfield. I want defensive cover, with some deeper creativity, as most of my central midfielders are all fairly creative, except for Flamini. So I decide on a Deep Lying Playmaker in the pair. For the other role, this becomes variable, as Flamini is very much a Ball Winning Midfielder, but Ramsey & Wilshere suit a Playmaking or Box to Box Midfielder role instead. Arteta is my first choice in the pairing, but I do not want to play 2 DLP's, neither do I want to play a BWM & BBM combination. So what I decide is...

Without Flamini -

Goalkeeper - Defend

Undecided - Support - Central Defender - Defend - Central Defender - Defend - Undecided - Attack

Box to Box Midfielder - Support - Deep Lying Playmaker - Defend

With Flamini -

Goalkeeper - Defend

Undecided - Support - Central Defender - Defend - Central Defender - Defend - Undecided - Attack

Deep Lying Playmaker - Support - Ball Winning Midfielder - Defend

I can swap the DLP & BWM roles, to create a BWM(S) & DLP(D) pairing if I need to press much higher up the pitch.

With Flamini being the more defensively solid, and without being the more offensively effective with the extra runner from midfield.

Attackers

My attacking players now begin to clearly suit certain roles and duties, which helps create obvious relationships all over the pitch:

• Walcott (right footed, natural wide-right, can play up front, very quick)
  
• Podolski (left footed, natural wide-left, can play up front, quick, great goalscorer, lacks creativity)
  
• Giroud (plays only up front, strong, but fairly versatile)
  
• Ozil (highly creative, left-footed, can play all across AM, prefers centre, best player in squad)
  
• Cazorla (highly creative, right-footed, can play all across AM, prefers centre)
  
• Rosicky (creative, good technical player, lacks pace, but great at pressing high up)
  
• Wilshere (creative, great at pressing high, very mobile, very left footed)
  
• Oxlade-Chamberlain (good with either foot, but prefers right, good dribbler, direct, and prefers right flank)
  

So, what I notice is, I have 1 natural striker - Olivier Giroud, who will therefore play up front. So I have 3 AM slots to fill now. I can see that we have a lot of creativity in general, but some direct options too. The stand out is to look at the flanks. I have only 1 natural left-footed wide-left, Podolski. I cannot rely on him for 60 games a season, so I would prefer to have a more creative player there too, as a midfielder coming inside will really help the possession battle, which suits my team. This means an Advanced Playmaker/Inside Forward on the left - where I will give a player instruction to sit narrower to achieve the possession factor. Now seeing as the left back is on attack duty, the left winger should be on a support duty, to provide a good mixture of runs, and on the opposite flank we should have an attack duty for the converse reason. Furthermore, wide-right I have 2 natural, right-footed players, who offer a different type of player - the more direct Walcott & Oxlade-Chamberlain, and I intend to use them as Wingers to maximise that. Because I have a Winger wide right, I want a full back behind him, and on the left flank I have an AP/IF(S), so I want a player to continue down the left flank, provide the bulk of width, which will therefore be a WB(A). So, now this is how we are shaping up;

Goalkeeper - Defend

Full Back - Support - Central Defender - Defend - Central Defender - Defend - Wing Back - Attack

Box to Box Midfielder - Support - Deep Lying Playmaker - Defend

Winger - Attack - Undecided - Undecided - Inside Forward/Advanced Playmaker - Support

Undecided - Undecided

Which leaves a few decision remaining. First of all, because I want the wide left to come inside, it will work better if they are the right-footed Cazorla or Rosicky, meaning Ozil's place in the team, will be his favourite - AMC. Now Ozil is a superb creative player, and I want him to carry on creating. Which means a specialist role, now this means we risk having 3.5 or 4 specialist roles in a Balanced Philosophy (depending on if Flamini plays) - I can change Philosophy, or change a role - so I will change a role, because I rather like the philosophy. So the best option is making sure wide left is an IF(S) instead of an AP(S) - he will create overloads, still take through-balls and switch play, but the team works more cohesively as a result of his movement. This leaves me free to simply pick a pairing at AMC and STC.

Looking at what my team has and lacks - we don't have many runs in behind the defence currently, only Walcott or Oxlade-Chamberlain in the wide right position, so therefore, I need my central striker making runs in behind, as the creative role that both suits Ozil, and the team at AMC will not have many forward runs - and they have to come from somewhere. So its STC that gets an Attack duty. This means I can give Ozil the free licence of a Trequartista or Enganche if I want him to stay central, or if I want a more defensive contribution to pressing I need to select an AP - which would be a support duty given that Giroud is an attack duty. I like pressing to be a team game, which gives me the choice of 1 role - i.e. not a choice, an Advanced Playmaker which is automatically a Support duty given Giroud's attack duty. I still want Ozil to be roaming though, so I give him an individual player instruction for it.

Finally Olivier Giroud's role I am still undecided on, I can choose a specialist role, and this time I really would need to change philosophy, or I can choose a Generic one. I am undecided on if I still want some link play provided by a DLF(A) or if I want Giroud to simply lead the line like an AF(A). I resolved to test over pre-season which was more effective, and the Advanced Forward provided a significant attacking edge, without falling behind on the link play I want from Giroud. The Advanced Forward suits plan B Podolski will too, as he is a natural goalscorer and fast, so provides 2 different ways of playing the same system, with compromising its effectiveness.

So finally I end up with this:

Goalkeeper* - Defend

Full Back - Support - Central Defender - Defend - Central Defender - Defend - Wing Back - Attack

Box to Box Midfielder*** - Support - Deep Lying Playmaker** - Defend

Winger - Attack - Advanced Playmaker**** - Support - Inside Forward***** - Support

Advanced Forward - Attack

* Distribute to Defenders

** Ball Winning Midfielder when Flamini plays

*** Deep Lying Playmaker when Flamini plays

**** Roams from Position

***** Sits Narrower

Balanced Philosophy

Counter/Control Style

Shorter Passing

Pass into Space

Work Ball into Box

More Roaming

More Expressive

Play out of Defence - when using Standard to Overload Strategies

Push Higher & Offside Trap/Much Higher Defensive Line & Offside Trap & Hassle Opponents - if pressing a high line

OR Drop Deeper & Stay on Feet - if using a lower block (i.e. a Counter Strategy)

Final Thoughts

I hope you've found these useful, I also hope it gives you some ideas as to what you are doing well, and what you can improve on. Most of all, hope you enjoy FM.

[lam]

Best of the series so far.

[llama3]

Last one of the series.

[Babak G]

Excellent work! You could even have them packed into a download, and Im sure you would see some crazy numbers.

[Bracken]

Excellent stuff llama3, any chance of some screenshots to go along with it so we can see a typical game and how it works out? I also think it's easier for some people to understand the tactic when seeing a screenshot of it.

[llama3]

Sure, but not for about a week or so, got night shifts, then flying back to England for 2 weeks. So need to be patient.

[Bracken]

Sure, but not for about a week or so, got night shifts, then flying back to England for 2 weeks. So need to be patient.

No problem, great work on all these threads mate

[JackJCFC]

Almost exactly like the tactic i use although there are one or two differences. I use a conplete wing back on the left rather than an attcking full back, not too sure on the difference really. I also prefer a defensive midfielder role over the ball winning midfield role as i don't want then getting out of position. You also seem to a more expressive and free style of play whereas i've not really changed that beyond the control philosophy.

[Guest]

good Thread llama , do you use the counter when flamini plays and control when he doesn't?

also I notice that using the plan A setup the players get very tired towards the end is it best to change to maybe the Plan B counter if holding a good lead.

[Rob4590]

Very good guide - 2 questions for you:

Are you playing the central midfielders as CM's or DM's? Assuming CM for most games - do you then drop them to DM for tough games?

Just confirming that the AM's are AML, AMC and AMR, rather than 3*AMC as you initially imply?

Would be interested in your take on a mid / low table side on this formation - eg West Ham (whose players also suit it). Roles and duties wouldn't probably be too dissimilar (except obviously for the AMC - Nolan doesn't quite have the same skillset as Ozil!) - but would be interested in your thoughts on what mentality and what team instructions you would use

[lam]

Llama.... bit of marketing advice, which I hope you dont mind......

You should set up links for the parts of your series in each thread.

[alinp]

Great thread and love the way you've explained your thought processes and application of your own guides re role & duty selection, however left feeling a teensy weensy bit underwhelmed by the rattling out of the team instructions at the end. Any chance you could supplement this with your thought process for deciding on these and how they fit with the manner in which you want your team to play? Thanks

[Cleon]

Another great thread

Imo you should create a new thread and copy and paste all the parts in order into it. Then message me and I'll make it a sticky

[sweep17]

Great work llama3. I second Cleon's idea to sticky the whole series in one post.

[jaycar]

Very good read, but have I gone mad , no parts 4 or 5?

[ajsr1982]

Brilliant series of threads llama. I wonder if you could be tempted into doing Part 8 - What I do during the game.

[Steve Odom]

Thats wwhy everyone wants to translate your guides.

[llama3]

Yes, been tempted actually to add part 8.

[Farina]

Llama3, again a very insightful article. I'm curious why you decide on a BWM in the counter-attacking plan and on a BBM in the pressing plan though. Wouldn't the BWM adversely affect your shape in the former plan, while he'd help you recover the ball once possession is lost in the latter plan?

[rossi789]

Excellent guide. One of the frustrating things for me however is that I more or less have my Arsenal team set up like this yet my results leave a lot to be desired! I do currently have 3 of my 4 forwards on Attack duty though so I will be changing Ozil to Support and using the pass into space instruction to see how I get on. A very well written and informative guide

[oddspundit]

Good reading. Enjoyed. Many thanks to Llama3 for his efforts and interesting posts.

[llama3]

Llama3, again a very insightful article. I'm curious why you decide on a BWM in the counter-attacking plan and on a BBM in the pressing plan though. Wouldn't the BWM adversely affect your shape in the former plan, while he'd help you recover the ball once possession is lost in the latter plan?

I don't use a BWM in a "counter-attacking plan" so to speak, i can control games with a BWM, and i can control or counter with the BBM too. I use the BWM when Flamini plays, thats either when resting Arteta, or its as a pair with Arteta when I want to focus on being able to defend well (that doesn't always mean stay in shape, it means going after it when I want too)

Excellent guide. One of the frustrating things for me however is that I more or less have my Arsenal team set up like this yet my results leave a lot to be desired! I do currently have 3 of my 4 forwards on Attack duty though so I will be changing Ozil to Support and using the pass into space instruction to see how I get on. A very well written and informative guide

3/4 attack duties may explain why - not enough people doing running and creating, and too many trying to convert a lack of chances?

Good reading. Enjoyed. Many thanks to Llama3 for his efforts and interesting posts.

Thanks mate

[rossi789]

3/4 attack duties may explain why - not enough people doing running and creating, and too many trying to convert a lack of chances?

It definitely helped in terms of goalscoring and chances, scored 8 in my first two games after switchin, I'm still leaking goals however so I'll be going through the guides again tomorrow to try and tighten up a bit.

[Time_Consumer]

Very good read, thanks a lot. One question though: Do you use high line pressing only with control philosophy and the deeper line with a counter philosophy, which would make perfect sense, oder do you mix it up from time to time?

[llama3]

Occasionally mix it up if I need to, but generally stick with the more cohesive instructions.

[TOUGHGUY]

Pairs & Combinations Part 1: Central Midfielders »

Pairs & Combinations Part 2: Central Defenders »

Pairs & Combinations Part 3: Strike Partnerships »

Pairs & Combinations Part 4: The Wide Men »

Pairs & Combinations Part 5: Goalkeepers (Yes Part 5!) »

Pairs & Combinations Part 6: Team Instructions »

Pairs & Combinations Part 7: Building My Team »

[DrizzitD]

Thanks again for all of the parts great work!

[MisterX]

Nice guide, everything of previous guides comes together.

[Luizinho]

LLama3; with you team, on the left flank; you've gone for a Wingback (A) with an Advanced Playmaker (S). I get how this works; with the Advanced Playmaker drifting in, allowing the Wingback to exploit the flank. However I was wondering how it would work with a Winger (S) instead? Would he stay wide and have the Wingback overlap him? or would it just congest the wing? As I always had a problem understanding the appropriate time to use a Winger on Support duty?

[Pipson]

I dnt think that set up will work, its based on theory and i used to do the same approach and it just doesnt work because the me is not based on such a theory.

Personally the best 4231 ive managed which won me champions league with benfica back to back promotions with dagenham and redbridge is:

Attacking and fluid

Gk: defend

Fullback: fb auto ( i change to control after being 2 up)

Defenders: cd defend

Mcs: dlp support and bwm support

Wingers: wingers attack

Amc: AP attack

Fc: dpf attack

This works perfectly for me but ofc the individual intructions make a huge diffenrence

[llama3]

LLama3; with you team, on the left flank; you've gone for a Wingback (A) with an Advanced Playmaker (S). I get how this works; with the Advanced Playmaker drifting in, allowing the Wingback to exploit the flank. However I was wondering how it would work with a Winger (S) instead? Would he stay wide and have the Wingback overlap him? or would it just congest the wing? As I always had a problem understanding the appropriate time to use a Winger on Support duty?

I use an Inside Forward - Support, not an AP. But that is the principle. If I had a W(S), I would tend to play a FB(A) instead, is slightly more disciplined in possession, and I would prefer sensible combination play instead if i have a W(S) too. Its a useful plan B if you cannot get in on the left flank.

I dnt think that set up will work, its based on theory and i used to do the same approach and it just doesnt work because the me is not based on such a theory.

Personally the best 4231 ive managed which won me champions league with benfica back to back promotions with dagenham and redbridge is:

Attacking and fluid

Gk: defend

Fullback: fb auto ( i change to control after being 2 up)

Defenders: cd defend

Mcs: dlp support and bwm support

Wingers: wingers attack

Amc: AP attack

Fc: dpf attack

This works perfectly for me but ofc the individual intructions make a huge diffenrence

You don't think what will work? I am surprised that works, 4 attack duties on your 4 most attacking players looks like a recipe for disjointed football - but at least a fluid philosophy will help that.

[Steve Odom]

I dnt think that set up will work, its based on theory and i used to do the same approach and it just doesnt work because the me is not based on such a theory.

What theory would the ME according to you be based on then? :confused:

[Pipson]

What theory would the ME according to you be based on then? :confused:

this theory is based on real life or a theory where a system would work. For instance making sure you have one MC defend and one on support. not having too many players on attack and so on and etc, these approaches are made from a theory where we expect a perfect system to work with what we try to set up but thats not the ME. just like llma3 said, i have my fullbacks on attack, and all my front 4 on attack thats 6 players and it works like a charm...just an example...

[Steve Odom]

this theory is based on real life or a theory where a system would work. For instance making sure you have one MC defend and one on support. not having too many players on attack and so on and etc, these approaches are made from a theory where we expect a perfect system to work with what we try to set up but thats not the ME. just like llma3 said, i have my fullbacks on attack, and all my front 4 on attack thats 6 players and it works like a charm...just an example...

I'm not saying your tactic doesn't work, I'm just saying you don't know wether his tactic works or not. In my opinion he has put together a balanced team that imposes the vision llama3 has about football and that suits the team he is currently managing. There's no wrong in that. You can't just say: that won't work because I do it differently and it works. If that were the case all football managers should adapt the same system, which is not the case and would be ineffective anyway.

The ME is not perfect, but it enhances throughout every iteration of FM to date. There's no point in saying the ME isn't any good and that real life theories don't apply. They do, now more than ever.

[Pipson]

I'm not saying your tactic doesn't work, I'm just saying you don't know wether his tactic works or not. In my opinion he has put together a balanced team that imposes the vision llama3 has about football and that suits the team he is currently managing. There's no wrong in that. You can't just say: that won't work because I do it differently and it works. If that were the case all football managers should adapt the same system, which is not the case and would be ineffective anyway.

The ME is not perfect, but it enhances throughout every iteration of FM to date. There's no point in saying the ME isn't any good and that real life theories don't apply. They do, now more than ever.

i understand your points and i found llama3 threads a very interesting read, i too was having problems with tactics and usually im pretty decent with tactics, i was taking the same approach as llama3 was and personally 4231 is my fav tactic, my approach which was similiar to llama3 just wasnt working, however after watching game after game on extended on 2d classic and making minor changes eventually i hit the spot and the final tactic was something i wouldnt make in the 1st place... and i didnt mean to say his tactic wont work. My opinion was alot of people come in here and read alot of threads made by people and everywhere i see this same approach where for instance a BWM is a big no in a 4231, do not have too many players attacking and etc.. whereareas i actually think it works.. because the ME though an amazing achievement by SI has its flaws and is not a perfect system.

[Steve Odom]

i understand your points and i found llama3 threads a very interesting read, i too was having problems with tactics and usually im pretty decent with tactics, i was taking the same approach as llama3 was and personally 4231 is my fav tactic, my approach which was similiar to llama3 just wasnt working, however after watching game after game on extended on 2d classic and making minor changes eventually i hit the spot and the final tactic was something i wouldnt make in the 1st place... and i didnt mean to say his tactic wont work. My opinion was alot of people come in here and read alot of threads made by people and everywhere i see this same approach where for instance a BWM is a big no in a 4231, do not have too many players attacking and etc.. whereareas i actually think it works.. because the ME though an amazing achievement by SI has its flaws and is not a perfect system.

But you're missing the point Llama3 was making: he builds his team around his players. So its totally reasonable that your answer to the problems you're facing is totally different than his. You're not managing the same team probably. It could very well be you thought out the roles for your team very well. Like I said, I'm not saying your tactic is wrong. The point of this thread is to give people some understanding of how you could build your tactic around what you have at your disposal. I think he does a great job doing so.

I think it would be interesting to see how you go around and why you chose to build your tactic the way you did. After all, all those people who think you're wrong could be convinced if you made them clear why you do have a point. You should however be aware that it requires a lot of work to be thorough in your postings. I'm sure those who posted threads like this one agree.

[kandersson]

this is very close to formation and style of football Id like to play though I have to say in FM14 I failed all my attempts with 4-2-3-1

Used a very similar tactical set-up (formation, roles, philosophy) only differences were left back as FB attack instead of WB and a CM support instead of your box to box midfielder. I also gave a little more individual instructions (eg all the AM's to dribble more as they all had very good attributes for that) but I doubt that's the reason for the inconsistency of both performances and results of that tactic.

eventually after watching more matches and seeing what was hot (float crosses) and what was not (quick strikers) I switched to a completely different approach: a no-nonsense 3-4-2-1 built aroaund a strong target man and simple wide play... hate to complain about ME but this is the style of football that seems more consistent at the moment. At least it has been for me.

very interesting read nonetheless

[HaydarAli]

Final Thoughts

I hope you've found these useful, I also hope it gives you some ideas as to what you are doing well, and what you can improve on. Most of all, hope you enjoy FM.

Thanks for the 7 guides! Very good work!

[Pipson]

[video=youtube;Xp1kvTYRvHU]

Excuse the quality as i am on my laptop. But this is my 4231 set up on my Dagenham and Redbridge newly promoted to EPL, we are introducing barcas style in this league lol and we are playing some amazing passing football despite the Me faults, this is perfect example of passing from defense all the way to attack and player perfect movement to find space.

[yaşar]

[video=youtube;Xp1kvTYRvHU]

Excuse the quality as i am on my laptop. But this is my 4231 set up on my Dagenham and Redbridge newly promoted to EPL, we are introducing barcas style in this league lol and we are playing some amazing passing football despite the Me faults, this is perfect example of passing from defense all the way to attack and player perfect movement to find space.

How can you do that man ?

[Pipson]

How can you do that man ?

took me about 3 seasons on my benfica save and about another 3 on DnB save to complete this tactic. i usually dont build a tactic based on players i have but on the vision of football i want to play.

[Pipson]

This is the key thing to my tactic which i learnt from watching barcelona in real life, its creating the triangle set up between your players, it makes your team unstoppable. In this game we won 0-6 vs Fulham and look at this screnshot:

At the start of this goal my GK passed into the DL.

Triangle 1: DL - CML - CMR

Triangle 2: DL: CML - AML

Triangle 3: CML: CMR: AMC

Triangle 4: CML: AML: AMC

and as time moves on other triangles are formed. AML:AMC:FC for example.

[video=youtube;kCT01SqmgiE]

and now look at the goal:

You can see how easily we created a chance with simple passing.

[Steve Odom]

Looks nice indeed. So how about posting how you came to do it, there 's a lot of people, including me, who would be interested.

[Pipson]

Its still work in progress, and my team is a newly promoted team to the EPL, what i was thinking of doing is, start again from season 1 with a team maybe like spurs and if i win the league in the 1st season then i know i have something special. even though im 6th on my debut season with Dagenham and my players are only average i still get a the occasional beating.

[Steve Odom]

@Pipson

This is how I look at building a team:

At first I have to build a tactic around given players. I need to, because I inherit a squad I didn't build for myrself. Then I discover there 's a certain weakness which I have to improve upon: either I change tactics or I make new signings that mitigate tat certain weakness. Then I look at the future and see what has to be done to build a better squad, capable of doing what I envision needs to be done to make my team competitive at a higher standard. Than I do it all again, even when winning the Champions League. That's FM for me.

I think that most people would agree that this is the way FM stays interesting at all times. It's not the goal that's important, it's the journey to the goal that is.

So here 's what I meant by all my previous remarks:

The op shows the first part of FM: building your tactic around your players. He does a great job at explaining how one could go about doing this. He analyses his squad to great extent and makes sure he uses the strengths of his squad while mitigating it's weaknesses. llama3 does this using his own personal touch, experience and all he has learned by reading what other people do. You disagreed earlier with the way he did build his squad, this is perfectly fine with me because I like a good debate at all times. There's one 'but' I need to address to right now: "if you disagree you should also tell him what part you don't agree with and why". In my opinion it is not enough just saying 'the theory of real football doesn't apply to this game because of the flaws in the ME'. If you're really up for a debate, you should also give examples, give a thorough run through of your own thoughts on this matter.

Starting a new save with the same tactic isn't what interests me personally, because I'm quite sure there's no such thing as 'plug 'n play' tactics anymore. Also, it's absolutely not the intention of this thread to learn how to create 'super-tactics' (if they even exist at all) or find a way to break the current ME.

[Pipson]

Maybe i came out the wrong way, i thought his reading was interesting, i thought his approach was also excellent, i cant disagree with the way he chose to play, and even then he build a tactic that suits what he has at his available which again i think is the correct method, the only thing i said and i felt i would comment on was how people constantly keep saying you cant have a BWM in a 4231, in theory this may be right, but the ME is not perfect so theory or realism will not work here.

As for my tactic i had a vision of what i wanted to create ''Triangle set up'' and at the same time making sure i take ''advantage'' of the ME. Because at the end of the day you may have an idea, a set up that is soo good and would work wonders in real life if you were a manager but would fail in the ME.

I think soon ill be posting my tactic, i personally dont feel its no ''Diablo'' but when it works you will see some amazing short passing and movement football.

[Steve Odom]

Maybe i came out the wrong way, i thought his reading was interesting, i thought his approach was also excellent, i cant disagree with the way he chose to play, and even then he build a tactic that suits what he has at his available which again i think is the correct method, the only thing i said and i felt i would comment on was how people constantly keep saying you cant have a BWM in a 4231, in theory this may be right, but the ME is not perfect so theory or realism will not work here.

As for my tactic i had a vision of what i wanted to create ''Triangle set up'' and at the same time making sure i take ''advantage'' of the ME. Because at the end of the day you may have an idea, a set up that is soo good and would work wonders in real life if you were a manager but would fail in the ME.

I think soon ill be posting my tactic, i personally dont feel its no ''Diablo'' but when it works you will see some amazing short passing and movement football.

I had no idea people kept saying that. What i do know is a BWM should be used in consideration of the fact he drifts away a lot, which means you can 't use him as your defensive player in your MC pairing without giving up on defensive stability.

Posting your tactic should be fine, but you did need to build a squad for it, which means it won't be plug 'n play, just like any other tactic isn't. Your vision does interest me though, just to get a grip of how you build your squad around it.

[Falahk]

I had no idea people kept saying that. What i do know is a BWM should be used in consideration of the fact he drifts away a lot, which means you can 't use him as your defensive player in your MC pairing without giving up on defensive stability.

yes that is exactly it, the bwm is not a defensive role, but rather a player who will try to win the ball in an aggressive manner high up the pitch, in Pipson's case its probably fine to use a bwm since he still have the dlp to offer defensive cover for the more attacking bwm

[soccer.joel]

Great series