FM2012 difficulty.

[PaulC]

The poll is of interest of course but no way can we draw conclusions based on a few hundred votes on these forums.

[grep]

It's not 35% of their old customers. Its 31% of people who have bothered to respond to ONE poll, on ONE forum !!

Anyway, grep. Did you ever break that 5 game losing streak that you mentioned on another thread ?

The very first season I usually change each coach and 75% of players therefore results are not good. That's normal knowing FM.

None the less, my second season sees me winning each match 3-0 or 4-0 so I tend to confirm my theories.

My top scorer has a rating of average 8.65 and he scores something like 2 goals each match, League 1.

My team average rate is around 7.50.

This is boring for me. I have already ended my FM challenge.

Once I have set FM as I like I obtain results like the above mentioned ones. Of course if someone thinks I'm cheating I am plenty of saves to show.

[Erimus1876]

But, its only a problem to some (minority). Maybe it was raised by the testers, then dismissed because they reached the same consensus that this thread/poll has.

To be pedantic the minority are finding it too hard, not too easy . Any way you look at it 30% is a significant number, you shouldn't dismiss it so quickly. Yes the majority find it ok, and thats brilliant because it means on the whole the game doesn't need a drastic overhaul. I'm sure SI won't ignore the 30% either who are finding it easy, they'll find a solution for next years game that doesn't ruin it for all. The game getting gradually easier has been raised for at least the last 2 or 3 years now, just all of a sudden this year it seems to have become so obvious to some that it can't be ignored or dismissed by the 'don't manage a good team' brigade anymore.

[Tubbs]

The poll is of interest of course but no way can we draw conclusions based on a few hundred votes on these forums.

Some can...it would appear !!

[Graham206]

It's 121 individuals: there's no way an internet poll can be extrapolated to users in general.

The only way to find out if there's a widespread feeling that the game is too easy is to do proper market research and ask a sample which is representative of users in general: the same percentage of 16-25s, the same percentage of unemployed, workers and students, that kind of thing. All any self-selecting poll tells you is what the people who chose to reply thought.

One thing which might give a clue that the difficulty level is wrong is something Steam can supply in many cases (though not if you choose to play offline) - the number of hours played on average. But, of course people could be giving up early because they can't win at all just as much as if they find it too easy. But if the average number of hours played drops substantially that would be a clue that the difficulty level could be wrong.

[Tubbs]

To be pedantic the minority are finding it too hard, not too easy . Any way you look at it 30% is a significant number, you shouldn't dismiss it so quickly. Yes the majority find it ok, and thats brilliant because it means on the whole the game doesn't need a drastic overhaul. I'm sure SI won't ignore the 30% either who are finding it easy, they'll find a solution for next years game that doesn't ruin it for all. The game getting gradually easier has been raised for at least the last 2 or 3 years now, just all of a sudden this year it seems to have become so obvious to some that it can't be ignored or dismissed by the 'don't manage a good team' brigade anymore.

I've not dismissed anything mate. And, 30% of respondents to an online poll, does not correlate to 30% of all users.

[Erimus1876]

I've not dismissed anything mate. And, 30% of respondents to an online poll, does not correlate to 30% of all users.

So therefore neither does 249 votes for the game being fine mean the game is fine. Works both ways. It'd be interesting to see SI and Steam run a proper online poll, something that would reach the vast majority of players who can easily cast their vote on. Other games do similar things when trying to gage where their games need improving.

[Tubbs]

So therefore neither does 249 votes for the game being fine mean the game is fine. Works both ways. It'd be interesting to see SI and Steam run a proper online poll, something that would reach the vast majority of players who can easily cast their vote on. Other games do similar things when trying to gage where their games need improving.

Indeed !! But it's the 30% that seem unable to let it go !!

[grep]

So therefore neither does 249 votes for the game being fine mean the game is fine. Works both ways. It'd be interesting to see SI and Steam run a proper online poll, something that would reach the vast majority of players who can easily cast their vote on. Other games do similar things when trying to gage where their games need improving.

You are a too smart guy.

This will never happen otherwise results may be scaring.

Anyway, if they would touch the reality, they could simply add this vote to the next patch download, something like vote to proceed.

Of course this is pure fantasy....btw any comments on my save data ? Am I a genius or something else ?

[Tubbs]

You are a too smart guy.

This will never happen otherwise results may be scaring.

Anyway, if they would touch the reality, they could simply add this vote to the next patch download, something like vote to proceed.

Of course this is pure fantasy....btw any comments on my save data ?

You what ?!!?

You're like a dog with a bone mate !!

[jdrawmer]

the majority of people that are finding the game about right in difficulty, are probably not bothering to look on the forums for things like this, they're probably playing it right now

[grep]

You what ?!!?

You're like a dog with a bone mate !!

LOL

Ok, I will try to obtain 9.00 as AVERAGE rate, that's quite easy and feasible, stay tuned.

[Erimus1876]

Indeed !! But it's the 30% that seem unable to let it go !!

Good!!! And long over due too. This issue was raised last year with the terrible AI squad buidling just being once aspect of how easy it was getting, and its at a point now where other things are making it even easier than ever. I'm glad this issue is finally in SI's face.

[themadsheep2001]

Good!!! And long over due too. This issue was raised last year with the terrible AI squad buidling just being once aspect of how easy it was getting, and its at a point now where other things are making it even easier than ever. I'm glad this issue is finally in SI's face.

This isnt new, its raised and in their face every year. and they work on the AI every year.

[Erimus1876]

The very first season I usually change each coach and 75% of players therefore results are not good. That's normal knowing FM.

None the less, my second season sees me winning each match 3-0 or 4-0 so I tend to confirm my theories.

My top scorer has a rating of average 8.65 and he scores something like 2 goals each match, League 1.

My team average rate is around 7.50.

This is boring for me. I have already ended my FM challenge.

Once I have set FM as I like I obtain results like the above mentioned ones. Of course if someone thinks I'm cheating I am plenty of saves to show.

If its that bad try the things SeanNUFC wrote about in post #69. I'm going to give it a go with LLM rules.

[SeanNUFC]

I've lost two games since making that post btw, to lower teams(though both in form) both very realistic the way it all went about. (tried everything i could to win them to other than the stuff i've mentioned im avoiding,team and player instructions can still be used btw obviously lol)

[KUBI]

If its that bad try the things SeanNUFC wrote about in post #69. I'm going to give it a go with LLM rules.

There are other things than LLM rules that can make the game more challenging. Try always to be within the wage budget, try to bring in one or two youth players in every match and develop them into good first team players, even if they have just average PAs. It's just up to you, how you define yourself as a manager and setting your own goals.

[SeanNUFC]

Yeah, don't like LLM personally, never played that way.

[Erimus1876]

There are other things than LLM rules that can make the game more challenging. Try always to be within the wage budget, try to bring in one or two youth players in every match and develop them into good first team players, even if they have just average PAs. It's just up to you, how you define yourself as a manager and setting your own goals.

Cheers, I do some of those things too. I also play with no visible attributes (started last year on FM11 when an attribute-hiding skin was released). Thats the ultimate challenge for me because you have to scout players visually yourself and make good use of the trial options when assessing players. Sadly, its made little difference to how my saves end up this year, last year I found it very challenging playing like that, this year nowhere near as challenging. On the positive side though SI at least supplied a skin this year where we can have most attribute panels hidden

[jase19]

If this poll is representative of the playerbase as a whole, I bet Sega's business analyst doesn't find it funny that over a third of the games players are dissatisfied.

as it stands, it's not more than 1/3

and they've already bought the game, profit.

you're never going to make everyone happy. they make it harder and the bottom number starts to creep up. suddenly you've got 10% who still think its too easy, but 20% who think its too hard now...

[Bradley21]

People keep missing the point, you shouldn't need to make up rules outside of the games design to make it challenging. LLM rules and using FMRTE are all well and good but it shouldn't be necessary to do these things, the game should be challenging enough by itself.

[SeanNUFC]

People keep missing the point, you shouldn't need to make up rules outside of the games design to make it challenging. LLM rules and using FMRTE are all well and good but it shouldn't be necessary to do these things, the game should be challenging enough by itself.

Its not missing the point, its accepting that its pointless waiting for SI to do anything about it as they already said they wont this year and making the most of the 30 quid spent on the game....(as its good overall). I agree we shouldn't have to do this, its not out of choice.

[andu1]

It's easy for me because the best tactic i had in fm 2011 works in 2012 also. Never had this happen before in a change of versions. :

[grep]

People keep missing the point, you shouldn't need to make up rules outside of the games design to make it challenging. LLM rules and using FMRTE are all well and good but it shouldn't be necessary to do these things, the game should be challenging enough by itself.

As another forumer posted recently to increase the difficulty you can also turn your LCD off but I agree this is not the way.

[shirajzl]

Because it makes the game too easy, have i not just said that? In real life i wouldn't win 6 or 7-0 just by using them. So i'm going to avoid using the broken bits of the game.(or what i view as broken) And its worked. There's still other ways to make changes which have more realistic impacts on the game atleast.

What exactly do you do with opp instructions that makes you score easily as you say? I fail to see the connection. :confused:

Anyway, I'm not finding the game that easy, not at all. That may be due to the fact I'm playing in Croatia, where there are strict FGN rules and good Croatian players are hard to obtain. I'm doing all right in domestic competitions, but I'm tweaking tactics, using shouts, private conversations etc. Also, I'm easily outplayed in Europe against every decent team. Then again, it might due to my micromanaging that things are not that easy. I must be doing some mistakes along the way which wouldn't be there if I was just using everything by default.

[SeanNUFC]

What exactly do you do with opp instructions that makes you score easily as you say? I fail to see the connection. :confused:

.

I mark their key players out of the game and take control and go on 6, 7-0 thumping wins.

[Random-86]

So far I find the game far too easy. Frustratingly easy, even.

I picked a team that should struggle for a place among the 4th - 8th place and after ~15 matches, I am currently on top with no loss just yet and already have a gap between myself and the number 2 of over 10 points.

I hardly bought any new players -- only two on a free transfer that act as back up players -- and my squad isn't supposed to be good enough to even aim for top places. The media prediction was 8th place and IRL they are 8th as well currently.

With my other manager, in the Lower Leagues, I am also leading in the league. Although that may be slightly less surprising, as I usually am the leading force in my first season, regardless which team I pick in the lower leagues. Still, it does show that the game is far easier than it is supposed to be...

[lee_uk]

so how much easier is fm12 compared to last years??

dont see much of a difference yet but ive only done 1 season

[stf1979]

My team in FM2012: Nott Forest.

Yesterday I played with 442 normal tactic away against Portsmouth and they start 1-0 then i changed my wingers positition only to a 424 formation and yeah (I knew that i will win) 1-4. Easy game so far..

[Super Bladesman]

It's not 35% of their old customers. Its 31% of people who have bothered to respond to ONE poll, on ONE forum !!

Anyway, grep. Did you ever break that 5 game losing streak that you mentioned on another thread ?

Exactly, and a poll is likely to attract those with strong opinions. As I've said before, the difficulty is unchanged this year. I'm not sure about AI squad building, I've not noticed any particular issues but I'm only just finished my 3rd season.

At the end of the day, the match engine is unchanged from last year, so most people have had over a year to develop killer tactics. Try something new if you're finding it easy. For me, the difficulty is just right. I'm having fun.

[TSH]

What people are missing is that the difficulty of the game is not about picking a smaller or a bigger team. It goes without saying that if you pick a LL team things will be much harder than picking Barcelona.

But that is not also right in the game. In RL managers who manage big teams don't have it easy and can be easily fired after some bad results or some bad choices in the transfer market. Also, in rl you can have amazing players but don't be succesful (look at Man City). This is not reflected in the game. If I pick Man City to manage it's a certainty that I will win the league in the first two years.

Another thing is that it's too easy to make a small team great or a good team even greater. It takes me 3-4 years to make Pari a global force or win the premiership with a mid-table team.

So, no there wouldn't be any point in introducing difficulty levels since the A.I. would just cheat, as it does with ALL sports games (and no, SI can't make an AI that doesn't cheat when in higher difficulty levels).

On the other hand, the difficulty module in this game needs a LOT OF work and probably a complete redesign. Even the fact that a manager after winning one league gets a world class rep (therefore easier to attract great players) is something that is unbalanced.

[tut]

The poll is of interest of course but no way can we draw conclusions based on a few hundred votes on these forums.

Dear PaulC,

I am a working man and english isn't my mother tongue, I am not a forum maniac also, as you can see from the number of my posts in general. I really have no time to write non stop and to make complicated analisyses to defend my statement of the unbalanced difficulty of our beloved game. But its a fact and I would like to see more commitment from you, instead of obstinacy. Please test the game and you should realise, that we, the "moaning scum", mostly "old" users, have a valid reason to pretend. Dear man, tell me, please, how can I play a game for hours, when even my grand mother can be as successfull manager as I am? Yesterday I won 10 matches in row with Gloucester City, without to change the tactics, or players /average for my playing division/...I didn,t even see the last tree games, I watched TV..

I am writing this to turn your attention. It is not fun. I know, it's not easy job to test and fix such problems, but when you made a such good game, it is a shame to be "deaf" for the complaints of 30 % loyal customers. I don't expect rapid results, but I would be happy to know that my suggestions are taken into account and the problem is investigated...And hopefully fixed. I will not write anymore in this tread, but I hope you are reliable, competent and responsive enough to take a serious view of this problem .

Thank you man!

[stf1979]

I'm sorry to have bought this game .. not funny to play if we know we will win so easily.

This is not a game but a program that makes us just win

[PaulC]

Tut, if you read all of my posts on the subject you should get a better idea of my position on it :-)

[grep]

Tut, it seems SI got married with console boys who like to win like nowdays guys are used to do, the easy way.

We have lost the battle and also the war.

My prediction is that FM13 will loose around 30% of customers but SEGA seems to be happy with that because 30% less ok but 35% more of very young boys makes the deal for them.

I feel you tut

[lee_uk]

i sincerely hope we not going down the console derp route!!.....dont get me wrong,im enjoying the game so far but it does seem to be easier than usual.

would love some kind of "hardcore" mode,however that could be done.

[SeanNUFC]

It does seem abit more console-ish than FM-like this year.

[grep]

Grand Theft Manager is rumored to be the next year title.

Adieu, FM represented the gaming history for me and now this friend has gone, forever.

RIP FM

[Alan A Wadge]

It would be immature for me to say it's too easy, I have only played with Man Utd so far and rightly so I have won the league. I can say it's too easy if I start with Whatsyourface FC in Division 8 and win the champions league in 10 years.

[grep]

It would be immature for me to say it's too easy, I have only played with Man Utd so far and rightly so I have won the league. I can say it's too easy if I start with Whatsyourface FC in Division 8 and win the champions league in 10 years.

Place a bet on that mate, you should be able to do that within 10 years starting from a Blue square team with FM12.

I am aiming on win the championship within 5-6 years starting from League 1, the only problem is that I dunno if I can survive after having won dozens and dozens of matches just clicking Continue as I am doing now.

[FestyF]

For some reason gaming companies these days have this misguided notion that their games should appeal to every gamer. SI seems to be heading that way too imo.

[Tubbs]

Grand Theft Manager is rumored to be the next year title.

Adieu, FM represented the gaming history for me and now this friend has gone, forever.

RIP FM

Bye then !! Missing your gibberish already !

Still no answer about the 5 game losing streak you mentioned elswhere btw....!!

[grep]

Bye then !! Missing your gibberish already !

Still no answer about the 5 game losing streak you mentioned elswhere btw....!!

I have already answered you.

If I will leave, I'll fight till the end, not like the ones who load FMRTE when they are in difficulty.

Told that, as you can see my prediction released on demo time became true, there are lot of forumers who share my thought and they will be more and more for sure. More and more, yes.

So, there will be hundreds of grep even if sooner or later I'll give up.

cheers

[rich_barnes]

Its the same as FM11 as far as I can see and that was fine, If you have the best players you win games and if you dont then you lose simple as that, yes there are alot of players out there who are world class but only cost a few million if you go out and look for them but if you took that away from the game then it would kill it. The big draw of FM to me is finding those diamonds in the rough and taking an average championship team to world glory.

You lot who want the game 100% realistic would you really enjoy playing if the only teams who ever won anything were Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and Barcelona? The Idea of FM is living out your fantasies and taking Barnsley to 10th in the championship once in 20 years isnt my idea of fun.

[Things Could Get Messi]

sorry but i voted for too easy. im just walking through the game at the moment without much difficulty. as Aston Villa, I have not lost in 20 games in the league. a lot of good players are available on the cheap so squad building is much easier. Chelsea and Liverpool have also gone backwards on my save by selling players and then either not replacing them or bringing in a player who is not good enough for them.

[Tubbs]

I have already answered you.

If I will leave, I'll fight till the end, not like the ones who load FMRTE when they are in difficulty.

Told that, as you can see my prediction released on demo time became true, there are lot of forumers who share my thought and they will be more and more for sure. More and more, yes.

So, there will be hundreds of grep even if sooner or later I'll give up.

cheers

Cheers to you too. You certainly never give up do you !!

[BiggusD]

Its the same as FM11 as far as I can see and that was fine, If you have the best players you win games and if you dont then you lose simple as that, yes there are alot of players out there who are world class but only cost a few million if you go out and look for them but if you took that away from the game then it would kill it. The big draw of FM to me is finding those diamonds in the rough and taking an average championship team to world glory.

You lot who want the game 100% realistic would you really enjoy playing if the only teams who ever won anything were Man Utd, Chelsea, Man City and Barcelona? The Idea of FM is living out your fantasies and taking Barnsley to 10th in the championship once in 20 years isnt my idea of fun.

Yeah, 100% realistic is not desirable, but I for one want the AI to at least try posing a threat in the long run. If this means that SI programs every club in the world to know every player in the world and behave like ravenous wolves, and every player in the world would consider moving to any club in the world as long as the pay is right and they have a realistic fighting chance to play football reguarly (i.e their CA is best or second best at the club in their position), then I would say go ahead and do that!

What are you waiting for, SI!?

[SeanNUFC]

So, there will be hundreds of grep even if sooner or later I'll give up.

cheers

That made me laugh for some reason!

[grep]

That made me laugh for some reason!

Once upon a time there was a community where we were used to chat and have fun, now we are forced into a war not started by us and all the fighters came up.

Despite god perceives us as fastidious ants to squash, we still have a bit of juice of vigor to react to the cruel god

Therefore Paul C, I will be glad to have a FM match against you, wanna bet I can beat you by pressing continue ?

[ron6632]

Yes, it is about right. Ok so you have the good form, but I have suffered a real downturn and have had to work hard for results. I think you really have to have a long term career game over quite a few seasons before deciding.