FM2012 difficulty.

[jase19]

i find it funny that all the posting is about it being too easy, yet the majority of the votes seem to be about it being just fine.

[Frankchickens1]

If its easy, go someone else, do challenges, etc etc etc

boring

[fuczak]

Wow, I'm really hopeless at this game.

[stf1979]

until they fix this issue it's useless playing this game

[Erimus1876]

Can the game be made challenging (in a realistic way) using the editor?

Sort of. You can improve AI squads, AI staff, and AI youth infrastructure. Unfortunately its only a short term fix since all the people you edit dissapear out of the game after a few seasons anyway due to retirements. Eventually much poorer newgens replace them, and as has been mentioned the AI doesn't have a clue about developing or creating decent squads anyway.

In that respect the editors use is fine for short games but very limited for the long term.

[Erimus1876]

i find it funny that all the posting is about it being too easy, yet the majority of the votes seem to be about it being just fine.

If this poll is representative of the playerbase as a whole, I bet Sega's business analyst doesn't find it funny that over a third of the games players are dissatisfied.

[billyboyeden]

If this poll is representative of the playerbase as a whole, I bet Sega's business analyst doesn't find it funny that over a third of the games players are dissatisfied.

This poll is a tiny representation of the people who frequent an internet forum. I doubt sega or SI are even slightly concerned by this poll judging by how well they are doing in the charts.

[Erimus1876]

This poll is a tiny representation of the people who frequent an internet forum. I doubt sega or SI are even slightly concerned by this poll judging by how well they are doing in the charts.

Thats why I used the word *if*.

[Erimus1876]

Viewing threads about good youngsters should be reasonably worthless because the AI should know they are good youngsters too and snatch them in front of your face.

There are no non-league gems. PA is fixed.

Visiting the tactics forum doesn't make a huge difference when people are just using the default tactic to win everything by clicking continue.

There is no realism in this game. Not only will Barcelona and Real Madrid -never- build a team as good as the one they have now again, but clubs like Napoli, Palermo, Porto, Benfica et.al (okay clubs with some downright superstars) will never again develop players of that quality again; the structure is simply not in place at those clubs to let that happen... so how did they build the teams they have now?

The AI does -everything- wrong. That is what breaks my suspension-of-disbelief the most.

Norway's International team is a mediocre European team now, with some decent talent going out to clubs in Spain, Germany and Italy early in the game. Once those players retire in 10-15 years time, there will be no players of that quality coming from that nation ever again. The Norwegian clubs will produce players of Good Championship to Decent Premier League quality at best and that's that. This can be said for all medium-small football nations which have good players in top leagues at the start of the game. I assure you, Slovakia won't see another Hamsik...

Maybe there's exceptions to this rule but I haven't seen that happen. I hope that FM12 has changed this but my hopes are dwindling as we speak.

As great a game FM is, the AI is definitely left behind now. As such, multiplayer is the best option.

SI should employ you. You pretty much nailed the problem with your posts.

[Robert the Spud]

In the past, I've always find it pretty much perfect in that with Spurs in my first season I'd battle for 4th spot. Sometimes I'd miss out but win a cup, but in recent years I'd pinch 4th and build on that.

2012? I'm top of the table currently fighting for the title with City and Utd.

Is the game easier or is the Tottenham squad really rather good? I'd say the latter. If I want a stern challenge then I need to pick another team.

That's my take on it.

A really, really top manager could have an injury-free Tottenham challenging for the league in real life in my opinion. Not sure about winning it, but challenging most certainly, and that is without any extra signings. We almost have a very complete squad, bar one or two signings. so, if you are a good FM manager and have made some signings, then there's no reason why you shouldn't be challenging. The problem is when you're beating top teams 5-0, which I have seen in FM12.

In regards to FM11, i'd always be fighting for 4th with Spurs in my first season. It'd usually take me about 3 seasons before winning the league(I slowly evolve the squad rather than spend £100m like some do), but once I won it, I would dominate Europe and England. This was simply down to the terrible AI refusing to buy players, or when they did they'd be mid-table quality at best. Also add in the appalling AI managerial appointments(Gross at Man utd for example, McCleish at Arsenal) and it was simply not fun anymore.

Even if you do start at the bottom, within yrs you are moving up seamlessley due to the poor AI. Bottom line- AI needs to be much better, much better in order to keep the long-termers and better players around.

[FestyF]

Sort of. You can improve AI squads, AI staff, and AI youth infrastructure. Unfortunately its only a short term fix since all the people you edit dissapear out of the game after a few seasons anyway due to retirements. Eventually much poorer newgens replace them, and as has been mentioned the AI doesn't have a clue about developing or creating decent squads anyway.

In that respect the editors use is fine for short games but very limited for the long term.

I agree but even for the short games, giving clubs boost in facilities (when they are **** in real life) is unrealistic. So only way to make the game challenging is the smart AI squad building and smart AI tactical choices, which unfortunately isn't possible with the editor.

[billyboyeden]

Thats why I used the word *if*.

Sorry, I didn't mean my post to come across arsey.

Just that some people get aggressive when blindly criticising or defending the game when in fact this forum represents a very small minority of the overall user base.

[Fredric Drum]

I had to vote it's about right, but I've only started 1 save so far, with one of the worst teams in Serie C2. Finished 3rd and 5th but no promotion. Every match is a pain and a struggle with players constantly gifting possession away, conceding incredible corners, running the ball off the pitch, etc, and I'm constantly frustrated. So I wouldn't say it has been too easy for me so far, but maybe I'm garbage at this. True, results have been unrealistically good, but hey... it's a game, and 100% realism would kill it.

[upthetoon]

Im playing with Newcastle as a Sunday League Manager. 3 games into the league and i'm yet to win. Difficulty is about right to me.

[SeanNUFC]

Shouldn't read this thread when doing other things. (quoted wrong post)

Have still found a way to enjoy this game funnily enough, by using my own rules. Seems to be working but don't think they'd work for everyone. It is definitely easier than previous versions though.

[Erimus1876]

Sorry, I didn't mean my post to come across arsey.

Just that some people get aggressive when blindly criticising or defending the game when in fact this forum represents a very small minority of the overall user base.

No problem, anyway you're right I don't think they'll be too worried about this poll to be honest. Its just frustrating because I think this is the best version of FM yet despite its ease. Fingers crossed they make AI a priority for next year

[Erimus1876]

Shouldn't read this thread when doing other things. (quoted wrong post)

Have still found a way to enjoy this game funnily enough, by using my own rules. Seems to be working but don't think they'd work for everyone. It is definitely easier than previous versions though.

What rules are you using?

I've tried leaving TT's to the assistant, setting match prep to none, and using default 4-4-2. Have you found any other things to avoid?

[Erimus1876]

I agree but even for the short games, giving clubs boost in facilities (when they are **** in real life) is unrealistic. So only way to make the game challenging is the smart AI squad building and smart AI tactical choices, which unfortunately isn't possible with the editor.

There is another way, but not many like doing it. You can use FMRTE to boost your rivals' squads and coaching staff attributes before each new season. Its not cheating since you're only improving AI squads. It does make it harder, but its time consuming and sometimes can mess up your saves (so always make a backup first!).

[SeanNUFC]

What rules are you using?

I've tried leaving TT's to the assistant, setting match prep to none, and using default 4-4-2. Have you found any other things to avoid?

Avoid using opposition instructions. Everytime i use them, i score with ease. Games more realistic without them, also using classic tactics. Still 4-4-2 but im having to adjust things during games to win sometimes and have been knocked out of the cl group with dortmund(funny that im writing that as though its an achievement isn't it?). The match preparation is still average. Think there's a couple of other things i might have forgotten but these are the main ones.Oh yeah, and ive taking my right central defender away from near post in corners(was on the default setting to), seems to score too often like in fm10! (had 3 in 12 and i could see that being much more by the end of the season, scoring too many as a team in general from corners i think to, not so much now though)

[Erimus1876]

Avoid using opposition instructions. Everytime i use them, i score with ease. Games more realistic without them, also using classic tactics. Still 4-4-2 but im having to adjust things during games to win sometimes and have been knocked out of the cl group with dortmund(funny that im writing that as though its an achievement isn't it?). The match preparation is still average. Think there's a couple of other things i might have forgotten but these are the main ones.Oh yeah, and ive taking my right central defender away from near post in corners, seems to score too often like in fm10! (had 3 in 12 and i could see that being much more by the end of the season, scoring too many as a team in general from corners i think to, not so much now though)

Thanks, I never thought about avoiding using opposition instructions. I only use classic tactics anyway and never mess with setpieces. I'll add the no opp instructions to my game and see how it goes. I decided to give it a second chance and reinstall it now there's a database with the Northern League activated. Starting right at the bottom, its got to be tough down there!

[SeanNUFC]

Let me know if you get too many corner goals without messing with it.

[FestyF]

but why would you not use opposition instructions though? IRL, every manager keeps an eye on dangerous opposition players.

Not using 'player and staff search feature' for example makes the game bit more challenging (whilst keeping it realistic) imo.

[SeanNUFC]

Because it makes the game too easy, have i not just said that? In real life i wouldn't win 6 or 7-0 just by using them. So i'm going to avoid using the broken bits of the game.(or what i view as broken) And its worked. There's still other ways to make changes which have more realistic impacts on the game atleast.

[FestyF]

Because it makes the game too easy, have i not just said that? In real life i wouldn't win 6 or 7-0 just by using them. So i'm going to avoid using the broken bits of the game.(or what i view as broken) And its worked. There's still other ways to make changes which have more realistic impacts on the game atleast.

I agree it's your fix and you are enjoying it but just for the sake of realism, why would I not tell my players to close down/tight mark an attacking opposition player if I know giving him time and space would be suicidal? Not doing so would be like losing on purpose, and there is no joy in it.

[tut]

Avoiding some key options to play challenging game make no sense! I suppose SI is working on this problem, because it exist for sure. Hopefully they release an AI fix soon. The AI level of FM11 was pretty good..just take it from there

[SeanNUFC]

I agree it's your fix and you are enjoying it but just for the sake of realism, why would I not tell my players to close down/tight mark an attacking opposition player if I know giving him time and space would be suicidal? Not doing so would be like losing on purpose, and there is no joy in it.

Thing is they are not totally crucial to my tactics anyway unless i use them, i don't lose often or anything, the games just more balanced. Personally find more joy in this than winning 6-0 every match. (since SI isn;t going to do anything about it i'm going to have to find my own way to enjoy after spending 30 quid, as its a good enough game for that overall)

[h@@kon]

Just voted "about right", but i never use opposition instruction. Might be the reason why i find the difficulty "just right".

[tut]

Thing is they are not totally crucial to my tactics anyway unless i use them, i don't lose often or anything, the games just more balanced. Personally find more joy in this than winning 6-0 every match. (since SI isn;t going to do anything about it i'm going to have to find my own way to enjoy after spending 30 quid, as its a good enough game for that overall)

You are right to try to play someway, but we have bought the game to enjoy it in its full "brilliance" aren't we? I am wondering how somebody can win any time and think "I am just great, it's normal for me". So I really hope for a solution from the makers of the game. I don't want to moan, but please SI, be as responsible as I know you for years..

[tut]

Just voted "about right", but i never use opposition instruction. Might be the reason why i find the difficulty "just right".

Please, don't vote, if you can't make an assessment, because the poll leaves wrong impression..

[hursty2]

People shouldn't sign so many players.

[hursty2]

Please, don't vote, if you can't make an assessment, because the pool leaves wrong impression..

Poll .

[Tubbs]

It seems that the figures speak for themselves. Twice as many punters DO NOT think the game is too easy (and that is just those on the forums). you've gotta love democracy !!

[h@@kon]

Please, don't vote, if you can't make an assessment, because the pool leaves wrong impression..

i'm not entitled to vote if i'm not using every aspect of the game? I play by LLM rules, maybe that exclude me too? default formation? default training?

He's just saying using opposition instructions makes the games easier, and i give him my observation. Maybe he is right. maybe not.

edit: i see mine original post missed the quote. I understand that can have been confusing.

[hilliec2]

Can I throw a question out there to all the people who are finding the game easy (of which I am one and have posted on a couple of different threads that it was ruining it for me).

Are you using the “classic” tactics or the new style wizard?

I have always used classic, and have continued to do so with FM12. No great reason why, I just stuck with what I knew.

So anyway, have not been enjoying FM12 at all. Have played with a couple of different teams but mainly Totteham and have been tearing everyone apart 4-0, 5-1, 6-1. It was just getting ridiculous.

On a whim, I changed over to the modern tactics wizard, and recreated my “classic” as closely as I could. Wow. It is like I’m playing an entirely different game. Gone are the erratic six or seven [total] goal score lines. Gone are the incredible Barcelona style goals that I was scoring (nice for a while, but soon became boringly unrealistic). I feel very much like I am back to the real Football Manager. And I’m pleased to say, I am enjoying the game as much as ever. Quite a turn around considering I was on the verge of just packing the whole thing in.

I’m sure this isn’t just my imagination. For those of us who literally spend hours upon hours every single day in front of the 3d match engine, watching every single kick of the ball, you know when something isn’t quite right and from the first game I played with the with the newer style wizard, I knew I was back to the familiar and realistic territory.

I’m not a techie I’m afraid. So I can offer no hypothesis to back my theory up. Other than, I was convinced something was very very wrong when I was using classic and everything seems to be great when using wizard.

Maybe I had accidentally invented the most amazing tactic ever in classic mode and it didn’t translate into the wizard mode. I don’t know.

[Tubbs]

Can I throw a question out there to all the people who are finding the game easy (of which I am one and have posted on a couple of different threads that it was ruining it for me).

Are you using the “classic” tactics or the new style wizard?

I have always used classic, and have continued to do so with FM12. No great reason why, I just stuck with what I knew.

So anyway, have not been enjoying FM12 at all. Have played with a couple of different teams but mainly Totteham and have been tearing everyone apart 4-0, 5-1, 6-1. It was just getting ridiculous.

On a whim, I changed over to the modern tactics wizard, and recreated my “classic” as closely as I could. Wow. It is like I’m playing an entirely different game. Gone are the erratic six or seven [total] goal score lines. Gone are the incredible Barcelona style goals that I was scoring (nice for a while, but soon became boringly unrealistic). I feel very much like I am back to the real Football Manager. And I’m pleased to say, I am enjoying the game as much as ever. Quite a turn around considering I was on the verge of just packing the whole thing in.

I’m sure this isn’t just my imagination. For those of us who literally spend hours upon hours every single day in front of the 3d match engine, watching every single kick of the ball, you know when something isn’t quite right and from the first game I played with the with the newer style wizard, I knew I was back to the familiar and realistic territory.

I’m not a techie I’m afraid. So I can offer no hypothesis to back my theory up. Other than, I was convinced something was very very wrong when I was using classic and everything seems to be great when using wizard.

Maybe I had accidentally invented the most amazing tactic ever in classic mode and it didn’t translate into the wizard mode. I don’t know.

Thats a very interesting point you raise. I cannot really comprehend how or why the difference could be related to classic v wizard, but I'm curious to see what others who have switched think.

Personally, i dont use classic, and i'm finding the difficulty just about right.

[FestyF]

Most people who are finding it easy have been using default tactics from wizard.

[Tubbs]

Most people who are finding it easy have been using default tactics from wizard.

If you are using the wizard, how can your tactics be the default ones ???

[SeanNUFC]

That's a funny post to me hillec since i found the exact opposite. I'm not sure that's the fault though.

[grep]

I use the default 4-4-2 tactic, never used the wizard.

I have never used a second tactic too. I just set a certain player for corners, free kicks and penalties.

Other than that I just change the players if one of them is particulary tired or injured and I press continue.

I have won roughly 15 consecutive matches ( 3-0 or 4-0 each ) so far in League 1 but the season has just started.

I am pretty sure that betatesters did a good job but they forgot to do what a gamer is not supposed to do, playing just pressing continue...

[Tubbs]

I use the default 4-4-2 tactic, never used the wizard.

I have never used a second tactic too. I just set a certain player for corners, free kicks and penalties.

Other than that I just change the players if one of them is particulary tired or injured and I press continue.

I have won roughly 15 consecutive matches ( 3-0 or 4-0 each ) so far in League 1 but the season has just started.

I am pretty sure that betatesters did a good job but they forgot to do what a gamer is not supposed to do, playing just pressing continue...

But...why would anyone do that ?? It's beyond me !

[SeanNUFC]

I do have to question the job the testers do though, makes you wonder abit when we find all these problems ourselves.

[Tubbs]

I do have to question the job the testers do though, makes you wonder abit when we find all these problems ourselves.

But, its only a problem to some (minority). Maybe it was raised by the testers, then dismissed because they reached the same consensus that this thread/poll has.

[SeanNUFC]

Needs to be better tested imo in future before pricing it as high as 30 quid. Wont be buying next years if its exactly the same.

[Tubbs]

Needs to be better tested imo in future before pricing it as high as 30 quid. Wont be buying next years if its exactly the same.

Thats your prerogative mate. But the 'vast majority' (to quote grep) have not said that the game is "too easy"..end of !!

[SeanNUFC]

Thats your prerogative mate. But the 'vast majority' (to quote grep) have not said that the game is "too easy"..end of !!

A fair amount have, though. 117 is not a low number for this sort of poll.

[Tubbs]

A fair amount have, though. 117 is not a low number for this sort of poll.

Yes, true. But still 2-1 majority disagree. And that is just forum users. Not the hundreds of thousands that have bought the game worldwide.

I fully appreciate that some are finding it too easy and thats a real shame. But the way some go on and on about it gets a tad irritating. Especially when the "press continue and win" argument is used. Thats about as valid as someone playing a Team deathmatch on COD MW 2, camping for the duration, then claiming the game is too easy when their side wins !!

Sorry for the gaming analogy, but it does make my point (i think)

[grep]

Needs to be better tested imo in future before pricing it as high as 30 quid. Wont be buying next years if its exactly the same.

That's the point Sean, roughly 30-35% ( checking polls ) of customers find the game too easy. It may be right or it may be wrong but the fact states 35%.

Now, SI may decide to ignore them all, SI already stated that there won't be any fix to this matter. Ok, I disagree but that's also a fact.

The very issue IMO is that all the men of this 35% are old customers ( due to easiness we find in the game ) and I doubt the next year we will buy anymore a product that we find gorgeous ( being old customers ) but at the same time we won't buy anymore a product that is too easy to have fun, all of a sudden since FM11.

I can somehow understand why SI doesn't want to patch the easiness factor but I can't understand why SI wanna kill 35% of their old customers just due to a ego massage reason.

[KUBI]

The very issue IMO is that all the men of this 35% are old customers ( due to easiness we find in the game ) and I doubt the next year we will buy anymore a product that we find gorgeous ( being old customers ) but at the same time we won't buy anymore a product that is too easy to have fun, all of a sudden since FM11.

400 people did vote in this thread, just about 30% saying the game is to easy. While there are 60'000 playing online every day and many more offline. We should really put that into relation. About 120 people here thinking the game is to easy. And you are demanding a patch or difficulty levels, while there is a large consensus that the game is still challenging enough, if you don't play it the easiest way.

[grep]

400 people did vote in this thread, just about 30% saying the game is to easy. While there are 60'000 playing online every day and many more offline. We should really put that into relation. About 120 people here thinking the game is to easy. And you are demanding a patch or difficulty levels, while there is a large consensus that the game is still challenging enough, if you don't play it the easiest way.

35% is referred to who voted in this forum, maybe the total number as you pointed out is different. Correct.

It may be 35% as well, less or even much more, who knows ?

[Tubbs]

It's not 35% of their old customers. Its 31% of people who have bothered to respond to ONE poll, on ONE forum !!

Anyway, grep. Did you ever break that 5 game losing streak that you mentioned on another thread ?