The Realism Thread

[George_84]

I just got promoted with Boston United to the national league so I guess this save will keep me going for a while.

I mostly buy the new fm around christmas because they debugged the major issues by then and discounts pop op!

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, George_84 said:

I just got promoted with Boston United to the national league so I guess this save will keep me going for a while.

I mostly buy the new fm around christmas because they debugged the major issues by then and discounts pop op!

I was going to stick to FM21 this year but have buckled not 24 hours into the Beta 😂

Sounds like it's going well at Boston, well done!

[Dan_987]

Will be starting my LLM Save on 9th November, most likely will try the Dafuge Challenge. Normally hit a ceiling around League 1/2, so determined to give it a proper crack this year.

My youth intakes suck, my attendances are low and once Board Expectation becomes - Win the League. My players and I buckle under the pressure 😂 

Normally I'd wait until February/March until a few patches and start a Level 10 save.. but will try not be so OCD this year (about any issues/bugs) and make most of the time over Christmas/New Year. 

[Junkhead]

17 minutes ago, Dan_987 said:

will try not be so OCD this year

Me too. Thinking of just going all in and starting with the Beta tbh.

[Dan_987]

3 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Me too. Thinking of just going all in and starting with the Beta tbh.

I'd like to go all in with Beta too, but thinking 9th Nov as a bit of middle ground trade-off.

Use the next two weeks to get things done around the house. 

[George_84]

2 hours ago, Junkhead said:

I was going to stick to FM21 this year but have buckled not 24 hours into the Beta 😂

Sounds like it's going well at Boston, well done!

I'm really pleased with the way the save is evolving. No harsh squad and staff overhauls, but patiently scouting and trialling players and appreciating what was already there.

I started unemployed and landed the job in december when Boston was ranked 15th or so. Played some very cautious counter attacking 442 and managed to grab the last playoff place with adding only two signings (CM west bromwich youngster and a ST journeyman who couldn't cut it in Scotland), but lost in the semi's against Kidderminster. The next season I kept faith in the squad and added some depth and a replacement for my left winger. Playing a 433 passing game in the first half and settled myself in 2nd place behind a very clinical Kidderminster squad, but it all came tumbling down in the second half of the season. Players losing form, opposition adapting and exploiting in the tactics area and maybe the pressure of a possible promotion getting the better of players? But going for a more organised style of play instead of the risky approach kept grinding is points to close the competition on a 3rd place behind Kidderminster and York. Won the final on penalties after a nerve wrecking game against Telford (Me missing the first 2 penalties!), seeing us going up to the national league!

A big challenge lies ahead with rebuilding the team. A couple of key players in their 30's and a lack of quality in the squad dept need replacements for this season or the next. The approach for the next season will be to scrape enough points to stay up and add some quality to the squad to make it easier to stay in the league every year.

[George_84]

2 hours ago, Dan_987 said:

Will be starting my LLM Save on 9th November, most likely will try the Dafuge Challenge. Normally hit a ceiling around League 1/2, so determined to give it a proper crack this year.

My youth intakes suck, my attendances are low and once Board Expectation becomes - Win the League. My players and I buckle under the pressure 😂 

Normally I'd wait until February/March until a few patches and start a Level 10 save.. but will try not be so OCD this year (about any issues/bugs) and make most of the time over Christmas/New Year. 

What database do you use for the level 10 save? I'm tempted to try out the even lower levels.

[Dan_987]

8 hours ago, George_84 said:

What database do you use for the level 10 save? I'm tempted to try out the even lower levels.

I've used both Dan BHTFC & Lionel Messi Databases the last few years, both very stable and well tested. Also there was a Level 11 Challenge going on for FM21.

Being a realism thread I would say that below Level 8, players/teams, reputation & attendances/financials maybe aren't differentiated enough. On a positive you can roll through the first few seasons pretty quick and it does have the local football feel, where your players and staff are continually being poached for a meat tray or few cartons of beer. 

 

[George_84]

2 hours ago, Dan_987 said:

I've used both Dan BHTFC & Lionel Messi Databases the last few years, both very stable and well tested. Also there was a Level 11 Challenge going on for FM21.

Being a realism thread I would say that below Level 8, players/teams, reputation & attendances/financials maybe aren't differentiated enough. On a positive you can roll through the first few seasons pretty quick and it does have the local football feel, where your players and staff are continually being poached for a meat tray or few cartons of beer. 

 

Thanks for sharing. I going to give them a go when I’m done with the boston save.

[Platinum]

21 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Me too. Thinking of just going all in and starting with the Beta tbh.

Think you had the right idea of starting a story thread as well. I'm waiting till November 9th though as there are a couple UI bugs I want solved first which they've said they will solve for release. 

FM21s release was very buggy which led to me waiting till about February to start my main save but I'm never doing that again as it depletes me of all motivation. The save I start on November 9th will likely be my only save untill FM24, but let's see. 

This is the first time I've ever bought FM in back to back years and the only reason why is because I just didnt enjoy and get into FM21 much.

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Platinum

[Junkhead]

Random question, but if anyone can do me a quick favour, I would be grateful.  Could someone just check the place of birth of the following players for me on their save's please?

Asa Humphreys - Kidderminster U23s

Reon Donker - Halifax U18s

Ethan Pye - Stockport U18s

Oliver Lobley - Scunthorpe U18s

 

Thanks in advance

[XaW]

23 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Random question, but if anyone can do me a quick favour, I would be grateful.  Could someone just check the place of birth of the following players for me on their save's please?

Asa Humphreys - Kidderminster U23s

Reon Donker - Halifax U18s

Ethan Pye - Stockport U18s

Oliver Lobley - Scunthorpe U18s

 

Thanks in advance

All have London (England) in my save.

[Junkhead]

6 hours ago, XaW said:

All have London (England) in my save.

Brill, thanks. I am a bit confused about this because a few weeks ago on FM21 Asa Humphrey's place of birth started saves as "unknown" and kept changing to London. He had no place of birth set in the editor. Now either there is something weird happening, or I am going mad (likely 😂)

Might ask in the database thread. I've done a search and this has happened to someone before.

Maybe I've dreamt it all lol...

 

Edit: seems I'm not going mad - those players have no place of birth set - seems SI are aware of it defaulting to the capital city. Weird thing is that it started happening to me late on in FM21 and seems to have carried on in FM22 now.... Makes it tough sticking to any distance rules...

Edited October 24, 2021 by Junkhead

[Brother Ben]

8 hours ago, Junkhead said:

Brill, thanks. I am a bit confused about this because a few weeks ago on FM21 Asa Humphrey's place of birth started saves as "unknown" and kept changing to London. He had no place of birth set in the editor. Now either there is something weird happening, or I am going mad (likely 😂)

Might ask in the database thread. I've done a search and this has happened to someone before.

Maybe I've dreamt it all lol...

 

Edit: seems I'm not going mad - those players have no place of birth set - seems SI are aware of it defaulting to the capital city. Weird thing is that it started happening to me late on in FM21 and seems to have carried on in FM22 now.... Makes it tough sticking to any distance rules...

That's a real pain, still, I think i'll carry on as I am.  Needs fixing though

[Junkhead]

Well guess how I've spent my Tuesday....

[Brother Ben]

40 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Well guess how I've spent my Tuesday....

You know this means you'll never score from a dead ball again 

[Junkhead]

There must be a simpler way to do set pieces, it takes literally hours. 

Plus I don't know what it's on about with "16 combinations".

I've got 40 odd routines saved lol

 

 

[Tikka Mezzala]

This is a terrific thread. 

I've had a look at the LLaMa ethos and I think I'll apply some of the principles to my FM22 save. 

One of the things I tend to do for realism purposes is to create a manager profile based on a real manager or ex-player. If the person I choose to emulate already exists in the database, I record all their information to add to my own profile, then edit them out of the game. I will try to be faithful to how I think they would manage a team/club. If it's a current manager I choose to play as, I'll study their tactics and try to implement them. Last year I played as the former Ukrainian midfielder Anatoliy Tymoshchuk, who is currently a coach at Zenit St Petersburg. I had a very good career in Eastern Europe. I've still to settle on who I'll choose to play as this year. Some candidates are Xavi, Marcelo Gallardo, Vincent Kompany, Ruud Van Nistlerooy, Nemanja Vidic, Stephen Hoffman, and Juan Roman Riquelme. 

Playing as a real life football personality, and adding some of the principles that give the game more realism, should really make my save more enjoyable. 

[Jonthedon26]

18 hours ago, Junkhead said:

There must be a simpler way to do set pieces, it takes literally hours. 

Plus I don't know what it's on about with "16 combinations".

I've got 40 odd routines saved lol

 

 

My most disliked part of the game. I find it so so tedious, so much so that most of the time I just have one set up for each of the different routines, occasionally two for corners, which no doubt hinders me, but I can't bare to spend anymore time of the set pieces page. 

[Domoboy23]

38 minutes ago, Tikka Mezzala said:

This is a terrific thread. 

I've had a look at the LLaMa ethos and I think I'll apply some of the principles to my FM22 save. 

One of the things I tend to do for realism purposes is to create a manager profile based on a real manager or ex-player. If the person I choose to emulate already exists in the database, I record all their information to add to my own profile, then edit them out of the game. I will try to be faithful to how I think they would manage a team/club. If it's a current manager I choose to play as, I'll study their tactics and try to implement them. Last year I played as the former Ukrainian midfielder Anatoliy Tymoshchuk, who is currently a coach at Zenit St Petersburg. I had a very good career in Eastern Europe. I've still to settle on who I'll choose to play as this year. Some candidates are Xavi, Marcelo Gallardo, Vincent Kompany, Ruud Van Nistlerooy, Nemanja Vidic, Stephen Hoffman, and Juan Roman Riquelme. 

Playing as a real life football personality, and adding some of the principles that give the game more realism, should really make my save more enjoyable. 

This is really interesting and not something I'd considered before. Thankyou for the food for thought.

Peter Jacksons barmy army here we go

[Junkhead]

How are people finding FM22 so far? I don't know if it's beginners luck, if I've stumbled on a tactic exploit, or it's just a lucky run of good form, but things appear quite straightforward so far at Alfreton Town. Sitting 3rd ten games in having only lost once....

[pdmalcolm]

On 27/10/2021 at 17:46, Tikka Mezzala said:

This is a terrific thread. 

I've had a look at the LLaMa ethos and I think I'll apply some of the principles to my FM22 save. 

One of the things I tend to do for realism purposes is to create a manager profile based on a real manager or ex-player. If the person I choose to emulate already exists in the database, I record all their information to add to my own profile, then edit them out of the game. I will try to be faithful to how I think they would manage a team/club. If it's a current manager I choose to play as, I'll study their tactics and try to implement them. Last year I played as the former Ukrainian midfielder Anatoliy Tymoshchuk, who is currently a coach at Zenit St Petersburg. I had a very good career in Eastern Europe. I've still to settle on who I'll choose to play as this year. Some candidates are Xavi, Marcelo Gallardo, Vincent Kompany, Ruud Van Nistlerooy, Nemanja Vidic, Stephen Hoffman, and Juan Roman Riquelme. 

Playing as a real life football personality, and adding some of the principles that give the game more realism, should really make my save more enjoyable. 

This is interesting... Maybe my caricature Roy Keane/Brian Clough hybrid's time to shine has finally come. 

[Tikka Mezzala]

4 minutes ago, pdmalcolm said:

This is interesting... Maybe my caricature Roy Keane/Brian Clough hybrid's time to shine has finally come. 

I played as Roy Keane a few FMs ago. He had already managed a few clubs by then, but I tried to rehabilitate his managerial image by starting off in Ireland with Cobh Ramblers and work my way back to a respectable standing in the game before eventually aiming for the Man Utd/Celtic jobs. 

Never quite achieved what I set out to do, but it was fun. 

I'm tossing up between Roque Santa Cruz (who's technically still playing for Olimpia) and Claudio Pizzaro (currently a Bayern ambassador) for a South American start. I'd probably just retire Santa Cruz in the editor and either start with Olimpia or unemployed. 

[Platinum]

On 29/10/2021 at 10:07, Junkhead said:

How are people finding FM22 so far? I don't know if it's beginners luck, if I've stumbled on a tactic exploit, or it's just a lucky run of good form, but things appear quite straightforward so far at Alfreton Town. Sitting 3rd ten games in having only lost once....

I'm not playing LLM yet as I'm currently managing in the MLS and only 5 games into the season and have overchieved in those matches. Overall though I havent seen more people than usual say it's too easy. Id guess and say things are likely just clicking for you?

[majesticeternity]

On 29/10/2021 at 02:07, Junkhead said:

How are people finding FM22 so far? I don't know if it's beginners luck, if I've stumbled on a tactic exploit, or it's just a lucky run of good form, but things appear quite straightforward so far at Alfreton Town. Sitting 3rd ten games in having only lost once....

Some people have said it’s harder this year, but a whole lot have shown how easy it is.  Such a bummer, not going to play it until it’s improved…some people say the beta is supposed to be easier, so hoping it will be more difficult later on. 
 

Nothing kills the game and all it’s features if its far too easy. for fm21, I absolutely love the mods, and see a team down a goal in 50th minute switch to all out attack finally. 
sooo boring to just win and win and win(without effort put into it)

[Platinum]

On 01/11/2021 at 03:02, majesticeternity said:

Some people have said it’s harder this year, but a whole lot have shown how easy it is.  Such a bummer, not going to play it until it’s improved…some people say the beta is supposed to be easier, so hoping it will be more difficult later on. 
 

Nothing kills the game and all it’s features if its far too easy. for fm21, I absolutely love the mods, and see a team down a goal in 50th minute switch to all out attack finally. 
sooo boring to just win and win and win(without effort put into it)

Do you find FM22 too easy so far?

I've been over performing with my team so far but I'm only 7 games into the season

[RCCook]

14 minutes ago, Platinum said:

Do you find FM22 too easy so far?

I've been over performing with my team so far but I'm only 7 games into the season

I've won 6 of 7 so far, but playing as Sporting CP, so I'd expect to beat most teams except Porto (haven't played yet) and Benfica (1-0 win) and haven't started the Champions League yet. Did win a match 5-1 where I was down a man for 40 minutes, though was already leading 3-1 when the player was sent off. 

[isignedupfornorealreason]

I'm having a go with Oxford City in FM22.

 

On course for an immediate promotion. But no sign of a new contract.

The only issue I'm struggling with right now is when is the time to offer new contracts to the players. Part time contracts only seem to do 1-2 years max if you're lucky. All my players are down to 3 months left now, the only issue is, they're all putting in 'promotion wage rises' clauses, which is stupid because we're getting promoted in three months. I don't know whether to take the risk of just waiting until promotion before offering the contracts - and risk losing them all anyway, or just eating the extra fees.

 

The promotion rises will add an extra £50 to the wages (I got it down from 30% to 15%), and that would take them well above the wage budget. 

 

I don't know.

 

The other thing is, half the squad is not good enough anyway. But I don't have a scouting budget to speak of, so I can't reliably find anyone to replace them, hah!

[Brother Ben]

1 hour ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I'm having a go with Oxford City in FM22.

 

On course for an immediate promotion. But no sign of a new contract.

The only issue I'm struggling with right now is when is the time to offer new contracts to the players. Part time contracts only seem to do 1-2 years max if you're lucky. All my players are down to 3 months left now, the only issue is, they're all putting in 'promotion wage rises' clauses, which is stupid because we're getting promoted in three months. I don't know whether to take the risk of just waiting until promotion before offering the contracts - and risk losing them all anyway, or just eating the extra fees.

 

The promotion rises will add an extra £50 to the wages (I got it down from 30% to 15%), and that would take them well above the wage budget. 

 

I don't know.

 

The other thing is, half the squad is not good enough anyway. But I don't have a scouting budget to speak of, so I can't reliably find anyone to replace them, hah!

Ah the struggles of the lower leagues! 

It's a judgement call that's for sure.  What is your gut telling you to do?

[Platinum]

1 hour ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

I'm having a go with Oxford City in FM22.

 

On course for an immediate promotion. But no sign of a new contract.

The only issue I'm struggling with right now is when is the time to offer new contracts to the players. Part time contracts only seem to do 1-2 years max if you're lucky. All my players are down to 3 months left now, the only issue is, they're all putting in 'promotion wage rises' clauses, which is stupid because we're getting promoted in three months. I don't know whether to take the risk of just waiting until promotion before offering the contracts - and risk losing them all anyway, or just eating the extra fees.

 

The promotion rises will add an extra £50 to the wages (I got it down from 30% to 15%), and that would take them well above the wage budget. 

 

I don't know.

 

The other thing is, half the squad is not good enough anyway. But I don't have a scouting budget to speak of, so I can't reliably find anyone to replace them, hah!

I would offer your very best players contracts now and not risk  it lol, the other players can wait, but I wouldnt be surprised if there wage demands increase once you are promoted anyway

[Platinum]

I'm playing as Moyola Park in the lowest league in North Ireland. Also the team already had a Director of Football so I'm playing as a head coach. Never seen players with such low stats in FM lol (so many players with loads of attributes at 1). I plan to eventually take them to the top league, hopefully win at least 1 trophy on the way and then move to League 2 or League 1 in England and hopefully take that team to the top. I'll be making a story thread in the career updates sub forum if anyone is interested.

[Dan_987]

3 hours ago, isignedupfornorealreason said:

On course for an immediate promotion. But no sign of a new contract.

The only issue I'm struggling with right now is when is the time to offer new contracts to the players. Part time contracts only seem to do 1-2 years max if you're lucky. All my players are down to 3 months left now, the only issue is, they're all putting in 'promotion wage rises' clauses, which is stupid because we're getting promoted in three months. I don't know whether to take the risk of just waiting until promotion before offering the contracts - and risk losing them all anyway, or just eating the extra fees.

I'm finding FM21 & FM22 are a bit harder/realistic, as in previous versions you could get in early and offer both staff & players a contract extension (knowing once the next season rolls over mid-late June demands will increase a lot more)

Now if you are on track or high likely for a promotion, I've had some Contract Negotiation already appear to factor that in well before season end.

[casualassassin]

Started my annual save with Oxford City, I don't know that I'll do a full-rule LLM though. I won't use the player search, and I'm starting Sunday Leage/Nat A(just clicked recommend me a badge), but I'm scheduling Prem u23s to get money and also told the board to seek out an affiliate club to get cheapo loans. 

 

Once I've got that side set up and churning, I think I'm going to do an all-leagues, Sunday-League/No Badge start and go where I'm hired. That one will be strict LLM(1-hour rule, no player search, etc)

[Platinum]

I didnt know Oxford City where such a popular team to manage. J managed them in FM21 too. I wonder why they are so popular.

I chose them because they are from a prestigious city but without any real football identity so I wanted it to also be known for football too.

[Brother Ben]

1 minute ago, casualassassin said:

Started my annual save with Oxford City, I don't know that I'll do a full-rule LLM though. I won't use the player search, and I'm starting Sunday Leage/Nat A(just clicked recommend me a badge), but I'm scheduling Prem u23s to get money and also told the board to seek out an affiliate club to get cheapo loans. 

 

Once I've got that side set up and churning, I think I'm going to do an all-leagues, Sunday-League/No Badge start and go where I'm hired. That one will be strict LLM(1-hour rule, no player search, etc)

Sounds good mate, let me know how the 1 hour rule goes for you

[Platinum]

Btw one thing I just found out is that in the game some players wont accept non-contact/part time contract offers if the club is too far from where they live, even if it's in the same country. I'm guessing most know this but the 1 hour rule is more realistic?

[Brother Ben]

5 minutes ago, Platinum said:

I didnt know Oxford City where such a popular team to manage. J managed them in FM21 too. I wonder why they are so popular.

I chose them because they are from a prestigious city but without any real football identity so I wanted it to also be known for football too.

I know they were predicted to finish bottom in FM20 but yeah they're obviously an LLM favourite on here

Edited November 12, 2021 by Brother Ben

[Brother Ben]

1 minute ago, Platinum said:

Btw one thing I just found out is that in the game some players wont accept non-contact/part time contract offers if the club is too far from where they live, even if it's in the same country. I'm guessing most know this but the 1 hour rule is more realistic?

Yeah its gotten much better over the years, there was a time when you could sign literally anyone from anywhere.  I guess the ultimate goal is that we get to the point where the guidelines aren't really needed because they've been incorporated into the game

[isignedupfornorealreason]

5 hours ago, Brother Ben said:

It's a judgement call that's for sure.  What is your gut telling you to do?

I offered the contracts but excluded the 'promotion pay rise' in favour of a slight bump in the wage. All accepted.

 

I win because all but one asked for lower wages than I anticipated, so I've got the core of the squad signed for next season on reasonable wages. Hopefully, that'll let me pick up some improvements next season!

[Junkhead]

Just something to bear in mind on the one hour rule - a bug came late in FM21 which carries over into FM22 on the Beta. Some players with no "place of birth" set in the database were defaulting to the capital of the country they were from. Noticed it when pretty much my entire u19 squad at Kidderminster were Londoners.

Confirmed an issue by SI when I mentioned it elsewhere, unsure if fixed but easy to check.

[saihtam]

How to you  feel the gameplay feels on lower leagues. Do matches seems like pro guys are playing or there stupid mistakes by players?

[casualassassin]

I use Oxford City because I started my first ever FM save unemployed and they were the old club to hire me, so I pick them every year 

[BrightLad5]

On 12/11/2021 at 21:28, saihtam said:

How to you  feel the gameplay feels on lower leagues. Do matches seems like pro guys are playing or there stupid mistakes by players?

Oh I've seen plenty of stupid mistakes from my players in the Danish 4th tier... mainly defensive issues but some stupid decision making from my attacking players too. Seems pretty balanced when compared to playing with Milan in the Beta

[Matej]

On 01/11/2021 at 04:02, majesticeternity said:

Some people have said it’s harder this year, but a whole lot have shown how easy it is.  Such a bummer, not going to play it until it’s improved…some people say the beta is supposed to be easier, so hoping it will be more difficult later on. 
 

Nothing kills the game and all it’s features if its far too easy. for fm21, I absolutely love the mods, and see a team down a goal in 50th minute switch to all out attack finally. 
sooo boring to just win and win and win(without effort put into it)

Any AI mods to recommend? For 21 or 22.

 

[Junkhead]

9 hours ago, Matej said:

Any AI mods to recommend? For 21 or 22.

 

Found none for FM22 yet.

I've played just over half a season on the beta and was overachieving. In my opinion, lack of injuries is what ruins the game at low levels. As a semi-pro team, I was training 2 days a week max and focusing on match prep due to limited training time and trying to get up to speed on three tactics. The new fatigue system was forcing me to rotate more than previous games. All of this, plus the 20% reduction in injuries within the base game meant I had ONE injury between August and February. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Junkhead

[twattyatkins]

On 26/10/2021 at 21:59, Junkhead said:

There must be a simpler way to do set pieces, it takes literally hours. 

Plus I don't know what it's on about with "16 combinations".

I've got 40 odd routines saved lol

 

 

I’ve always left the set pieces on default and hoped for the best, and to be honest it’s never really done me that badly.

I just haven’t got the patience to sit and arrange them all individually.

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, twattyatkins said:

I’ve always left the set pieces on default and hoped for the best, and to be honest it’s never really done me that badly.

I just haven’t got the patience to sit and arrange them all individually.

I 100% concede less from set pieces once I've set them up. Not convinced I score more though 🙄

[BrightLad5]

On 26/10/2021 at 21:59, Junkhead said:

There must be a simpler way to do set pieces, it takes literally hours. 

Plus I don't know what it's on about with "16 combinations".

I've got 40 odd routines saved lol

 

 

Just saw this, is this for the Steam Achievement?

The 16 are:

Corner Attack, Corner Defender, Freekick Direct, Freekick Small chance of shot, Freekick wide, Freekick Deep, Throw in Attack, Throw in Defend... and you create one for each of these 8, for the right AND left side so 16 in total.

 

 

[Junkhead]

57 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Just saw this, is this for the Steam Achievement?

The 16 are:

Corner Attack, Corner Defender, Freekick Direct, Freekick Small chance of shot, Freekick wide, Freekick Deep, Throw in Attack, Throw in Defend... and you create one for each of these 8, for the right AND left side so 16 in total.

 

 

But then all of the four freekicks there are both attacking and defensive, left and right, so there's another 8, and with variations on corners or freekicks depending on tactic, it gets silly quite quickly imo. 

Honestly think the best way to do it is to include a set piece training option and your options for set pieces improve increase the better the coach assigned, so loads of presets which "unlock", almost.

[Brother Ben]

I have a feeling that anything more user friendly than the current system would leave it open to exploits maybe?