Setting up an effective 4-2-3-1

[The Dandy Dons]

Right, I still haven't managed to get this right so I've finished my season and I will be starting from scratch.

I want my ST (Neymar) to score goals, but also use his exceptional dribbling and creativity to help create goals for others.

I want my AML (Bale) to be the second main supply of goals. Something like a Ronaldo inside/wing forward who can cause damage running inside the fullbacks and appearing in the box when the ball on the other flank.

I want my AMC to create and of course chip in with a few goals, and my AMR to be the other main creator.

Something like that.

This is what I have come up with so far in the game.

The DLP(S) should still sit so he doesn't allow the space that Alaba may leave when he bombs up the pitch.

Any other suggestions going into the new season?

[agentvinz]

You're Man Utd, so you want to attack and dominate the game, not sitting deep and waiting for counter all the time. Counter has narrow and slow tempo, so you'll struggle to create chances.I would recommend switching to at least Standard, or Control. You can still manually ticked the 'counter attack' box so you'll still counter when the opportunity arises.

For the role, I would give Neymar Treq and set his run with ball to 'often' so he will get lots of ball and dribble a lot like how you wanted. I also recommended to give Kagawa AMC-Attack so he will attack the box when Neymar drop deep.

[EdsFM]

My take on the 4-2-3-1, role-by-role.

http://fmcoffeehouse.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/tactical-analysis-crooked-4-2-3-1/

[Blancos]

Hi Guys,

I would like to set up a 4-2-3-1 (ideally with MC's) that controls and dominates games. I want effective movement from my striker and wide players to create and exploit space with a Playmaker (Fantasista) in the hole dictating the game and feeding the front 3 as well as getting into the box occasionally.

But I want to be solid at the back as well and do not mind conceding goals when the opposition play well and break through my defence however it seems like my defence makes simple mistakes and leaves the opposition with easy one on one chances that can be avoided.

Philosophy – Balanced

Strategy – Control

Team Instructions:

Shorter Passing

Press More

Zonal Marking

Drill Crosses

More Roaming

IMHO, the main weakness in your tactics is on "PRESS MORE", bro. You said you need to be solid at the back with the control strategy, but in contrary you press more. You need to control the ball, right? It means you have to keep your distance as far as you can from the pressing oppositions, and you can't have that distance you need if you hard-pressed them when they have the ball.

And beware with "MORE ROAMING" as well... A team can control the game better by having solid formation AS A TEAM, not by controlling the ball personally. With MORE ROAMING, your formation will loosing its general cohesion, and that will make you loose the control that you want at the start.

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

@ Cadijk - Do you mind posting up a screen shot of your Bayern tactic mate? Cheers.

[Gee_Simpson]

That is almost identical to how I set up. Only difference is the right wing position and tackling setting.

How are you doing in the league and europe?

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

That is almost identical to how I set up. Only difference is the right wing position and tackling setting.

How are you doing in the league and europe?

Doing pretty well.

Season 1 I did finish second in the league which was disappointing. I did however make it to the Champions League Final – Group had Man City and PSG (walked it), Knock-out rounds were Man U, Barcelona, somebody else and then lost the final 3-2 to Real Madrid thanks to a 122nd minute Ronaldo goal. Won the German Cup and German Super Cup.

Season 2 I’m currently sitting top after 12 games. Have only conceded 5 goals. Could score more, average 2 a game.

How you setting up your front 3?

[tajj 7]

You're Man Utd, so you want to attack and dominate the game, not sitting deep and waiting for counter all the time. Counter has narrow and slow tempo, so you'll struggle to create chances.I would recommend switching to at least Standard, or Control. You can still manually ticked the 'counter attack' box so you'll still counter when the opportunity arises.

For the role, I would give Neymar Treq and set his run with ball to 'often' so he will get lots of ball and dribble a lot like how you wanted. I also recommended to give Kagawa AMC-Attack so he will attack the box when Neymar drop deep.

Have to disagree with this, it depends who you are playing and how they are playing. 'Counter' can be just as attacking as 'attacking' can be defensive, depends how you set them up.

I've found with my Real Madrid team that against deep defending teams counter can draw them out, it also gives your team space to play the ball around and probe for an opening, On attacking your team will push up, play with a higher tempo, this my mean that you are hurried in possession and the opposition can mop your attacking up easily.

You can also make counter less narrow by using shouts.

Right, I still haven't managed to get this right so I've finished my season and I will be starting from scratch.

I want my ST (Neymar) to score goals, but also use his exceptional dribbling and creativity to help create goals for others.

I want my AML (Bale) to be the second main supply of goals. Something like a Ronaldo inside/wing forward who can cause damage running inside the fullbacks and appearing in the box when the ball on the other flank.

I want my AMC to create and of course chip in with a few goals, and my AMR to be the other main creator.

Something like that.

This is what I have come up with so far in the game.

The DLP(S) should still sit so he doesn't allow the space that Alaba may leave when he bombs up the pitch.

Any other suggestions going into the new season?

Personally I don't think Neymar is suited to being a lone striker. His PPMs such he wants to be attacking from a bit deeper and with his dribbling skills you'd want him facing up against defenders rather than with his back to the goal.

What other striker options do you have? It might be worth looking at having a DLF or TM on support and then having Neymar in the AMC role on attack as Attacking Midfielder (has forward runs often and runs with ball often on I think, whereas AP doesn't). The FC will then hold up the ball and play in the guys behind him, with Neymar and Bale running from deep, and dribbling at the defence. Might also be worth them all learning the 'one two' PPM.

Also with two IFs, I would reckon you want both full backs providing the width.

For my Real Madrid team I doing well with Benteke as TM on support, I then have Ozil as a APM on the right, with Neymar and Ronaldo running in form the AML. AMC positions.

[Scully11]

The Treq does no closing down and the ball winning midfielder does too much for a flat midfield i.e. no DMC. I would say that is why you are seeing your defender getting pulled out. I prefer atleast one winger in this formation to keep the width and leave room for your AMC. I play it with an Advanced Forward too, he will push back the defensive line leaving room for the AMC. It's all about making space out there. Your DLP is fine but I would pair him with either DLP on defend or central midfield defend. This keeps them out of the AMC's zone. As for the AMC slot. I usually play an Inside Forward on support or Advanced Playmaker on Attack. IF you set up your forward as advanced forward and your central midfield as the one indicated above then open up the mentality view in the tactics panel. Notice if how the DLP is between the lines of mentalities and it will hold true for either Advanced Playmaker on attack or Inside forward on support in the AMC slot.

Like I said you want to free up space for the AMC so get him between the lines in the mentality structure of your team. With a balanced philosophy you can get alot out of your full backs. Put them on attack duty and notice how their mentality is really high. This makes them very dangerous in this formation. The key here is the two low mentality central midfielders.

This is how I've been setting it up lately:

4231

Balanced - Control - Shorter Pass - More expressive - Drill Crosses - More Roaming - Stand off More - Zonal Mark - DLP support ticked as playmaker (your out ball in attack)

Shouts: Hassle Opponents - Get stuck in - Play out of defence - Work Ball into the box - Play Wider

Sweeper Keeper Support - Distrubution to a defender

FBR Attack

FBL Attack

CD Defend X2

DLP Support

Central Mid Defend

Advanced Playmaker Attack or Inside Forward Support <--- AMC slot

IF Attack <--- left hand side

Winger Attack <--- right hand side

Advanced Forward

OI Instructions:

Against 41221:

Close down both fullbacks and show onto weaker foot

Tight Mark Both Wingers

Find the MC who is more creative and Tigh Mark him

Close down and show onto weaker foot the DMC

Against 4231:

As 41221 but tight mark the AMC and close down + weaker foot the most defensive MC

Against 442:

Again the full backs and the wingers same as 41221

Tight mark the most creative of the two forwards

Tight mark the most attacking of the MC's

Close down the most defensive of the MC's

Thank you so much for this youve saved my first monaco season i spent money and could not get a formation to work you are a genius

[vasilli07]

My take on the 4-2-3-1, role-by-role.

http://fmcoffeehouse.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/tactical-analysis-crooked-4-2-3-1/

Nice read but what style are you using? Style affects mentality so it's very likely to affect your player movement as well.

[agentvinz]

Have to disagree with this, it depends who you are playing and how they are playing. 'Counter' can be just as attacking as 'attacking' can be defensive, depends how you set them up.

I've found with my Real Madrid team that against deep defending teams counter can draw them out, it also gives your team space to play the ball around and probe for an opening, On attacking your team will push up, play with a higher tempo, this my mean that you are hurried in possession and the opposition can mop your attacking up easily.

You can also make counter less narrow by using shouts.

Personally I don't think Neymar is suited to being a lone striker. His PPMs such he wants to be attacking from a bit deeper and with his dribbling skills you'd want him facing up against defenders rather than with his back to the goal.

What other striker options do you have? It might be worth looking at having a DLF or TM on support and then having Neymar in the AMC role on attack as Attacking Midfielder (has forward runs often and runs with ball often on I think, whereas AP doesn't). The FC will then hold up the ball and play in the guys behind him, with Neymar and Bale running from deep, and dribbling at the defence. Might also be worth them all learning the 'one two' PPM.

Also with two IFs, I would reckon you want both full backs providing the width.

For my Real Madrid team I doing well with Benteke as TM on support, I then have Ozil as a APM on the right, with Neymar and Ronaldo running in form the AML. AMC positions.

I've tried counter myself, and I've found that regardless of my opposition style I always struggle with it. When I face stronger teams away we just invite too many pressure because of the narrow and deep d-line, the opposition have lots of shots and possession, so it's just a matter of time for them to score. And when we have the chance to counter, it always fail because with counter player have more defensive mentailty, coupled with narrow , slow tempo and high team wasting which counter strategy gives, the attack will broken down very often. And when we are having the ball, the opposition have all the time to drop back because of our high time wasting and slow tempo.

Since then, I've abandoned the counter strategy and just play with standard/control, set closing down to 'stand off', passing to default, drop the d-line and manually ticked the 'counter attack' and it works better than with the counter strategy.

Also, I never mean to use attacking strategy when you want to attack, because with it everybody is pushing up high so there is no space to run. I mostly use control both for countering/attacking.

[EdsFM]

Nice read but what style are you using? Style affects mentality so it's very likely to affect your player movement as well.

Control /// Fluid.

[tajj 7]

I'm also having good success with the 2 x DMC, with one as a DLP on defend, and the other DMC as Ball Winner on support. I have Bender in this role and he's absolutely superb averaging over 8 now in this position. The DLP sits and protects the back four and keeps the shape which allows the BWM off the leash. I've watched him several times win the ball high up the pitch to start new attacks in the final third and he also gets across to help out both fullbacks if the AML/AMRs haven't got back.

The only downside is that defensively he's superb but offensively he has fairly average attributes, which means he doesn't always take advantage of the offensive positions he gets in, although he has popped up with a few goals. A Gerrard like player here would be amazing and I'm working on one of newgens to fill this box to box role.

[soccer.joel]

I'm having good success with this at Arsenal. Beat Chelsea 5-0 a few games ago

[vasilli07]

I'm also having good success with the 2 x DMC, with one as a DLP on defend, and the other DMC as Ball Winner on support. I have Bender in this role and he's absolutely superb averaging over 8 now in this position. The DLP sits and protects the back four and keeps the shape which allows the BWM off the leash. I've watched him several times win the ball high up the pitch to start new attacks in the final third and he also gets across to help out both fullbacks if the AML/AMRs haven't got back.

The only downside is that defensively he's superb but offensively he has fairly average attributes, which means he doesn't always take advantage of the offensive positions he gets in, although he has popped up with a few goals. A Gerrard like player here would be amazing and I'm working on one of newgens to fill this box to box role.

You can try signing Koke from A.Madrid for just 13m in the 1st 2 seasons. He is the kinda of b2b player.

[agentvinz]

Yes. Move into channels is more of a otb instruction while cutting inside is when a player has the ball.

At the moment, I have my AM(AP - Sup - No change, only roaming checked) in his normal role. My 2 wide midfielders(AP - Att and Winger - Sup) with move into channels as their wide play instruction instead.

It could also be used on a AML(who is left footed) if you want him to play like an inside forward. He will move in between the FB and CB without the ball so when a player try to pass him the ball, he will already be in a more central position.

How about footedness? Does it matter much when using the move into channel instruction?

What about the other instructions, like RFD and roaming? What's better, often RFD or mixed?

[tajj 7]

You can try signing Koke from A.Madrid for just 13m in the 1st 2 seasons. He is the kinda of b2b player.

I'm playing an online game with a mate and he's already got him at Arsenal

[Gooner SJ]

Unfortunately, I've pretty much given up on this formation, as uncreative as that may be. :o I've also found that using a 4-1-2-2-1, with an AP-A in center, actually ends up creating what a lot of people using the 4-2-3-1 are looking for, particularly if they have PPM to get forward, ie Wilshere. I've tried using a lot of the suggestions in this thread to avoid overcrowding and cutting out the AMC, but have had limited, if any, success in doing so.

One key observation I've made is that W-A also ends up resulting in what a lot of people are trying to get out of the IF role. Walcott and Gervinho still cut inside all the time, but are actually more productive when doing so, playing the ball off a bit more instead of continuing their runs, and I'm scoring more goals by using them in those roles.

Again though, the key is space. I find that the 4-2-3-1 has limited my usage of the striker position as well. With the 4-1-2-2-1, I have much more success with CF and P roles for the striker. This again may just be down to the kind of players I have available in my team to try and implement the 4-2-3-1. Generally I was trying to play something like this:

Rigid - Control

AF(A)

IF(A) AP(S) W(A)

DLP(S) CM(D)

FB(auto) LD(D) CD(D) FB(auto)

GK(D)

[tajj 7]

That's how I've gone, half way house between the MCs and the DMCs

I took that screenshot after playing Real Madrid at home in the Champions League who also played a 4-2-3-1 formation and had a full team (Ronaldo, Ozil, Casillas etc.). They didn't manage even a half chance against me in 90 minutes, I won the game 2-0 and managed one clear cut and about 8 half chances.

[Oskarsson]

My take on the 4-2-3-1, role-by-role.

http://fmcoffeehouse.wordpress.com/2013/05/30/tactical-analysis-crooked-4-2-3-1/

I'm trying to build a tactic very similar to this but with Truro City in Blue Square Bet South. In your opinion, is it even possible for this tactic to be successful with such poor players? The use of a sweeper-keeper seems particularly scary to me - unfortunately my budget won't stretch to recruiting Hugo Lloris

[Sussex Hammer]

My penny worth on this. I use classic tactics and have been working on a 4231 Home and an Away counter tactic. Both were doing ok but I wasn't getting enough out of the AMR AML and AMC. I had all three of them on roaming and turned roaming off. Kevin Nolan now has 4 goals in three games from AMC and is suddenly getting on the end of crosses from the AMR and AML who previously didn't seem to cross much. So I think it very much depends on players in these roles,. An Oscar, Mata and Hazard would probably benefit from more roaming whilst a Nolan, Jarvis and Gary O'Neill seem to be better just sticking to the basic roles.

[Southern Buddie]

I've noticed less roaming as more beneficial for attacking players when it comes to getting goals. No matter how creative the forward players you have.

[soccer.joel]

^ I just use default personally and it works well

[vasilli07]

How about footedness? Does it matter much when using the move into channel instruction?

What about the other instructions, like RFD and roaming? What's better, often RFD or mixed?

I actually realised it works better if you want to play an IF with left foot on the left side and vice versa. They will tuck into the middle without the ball. Compared to cutting inside, players tend to wait near the touchline to receive the ball so that they have space to cut inside.

As for RFD, I have them on mixed as I like my players operating from a deeper position.

[ensar13]

Hi, can you help me?

I am doing something wrong in the front. My defence is good, I can't complain because I only get goals from my players mistakes, so that is not the problem. My problem are the attack. To much runnning in the AM place. I have: AML Hazard (Winger Attack), AMC Pjanic (Advance Playmaker Support), and AMR Mata (IF attack), behind them BWM Moutinho and Anchorman Strootman. Dzeko in the front as Advanced Forward attack. Now, this 4 midfielder: Hazard, Pjanic, Mata and Moutinho are just running with ball and they create chances and score. I can't bring Dzeko to run in the space and give him a trough ball. I mean, what am I doing worn? Please. Because, I am happy that I am winning, but if I spend 35 mil. for Dzeko I want him to score, and not only stand there with opp.defenders and bringing them out op position. What should I do to confuse the 4 defenders behind, to give Dzeko space to run in and get a good Ball to strike?

Thanks

[vasilli07]

Hi, can you help me?

I am doing something wrong in the front. My defence is good, I can't complain because I only get goals from my players mistakes, so that is not the problem. My problem are the attack. To much runnning in the AM place. I have: AML Hazard (Winger Attack), AMC Pjanic (Advance Playmaker Support), and AMR Mata (IF attack), behind them BWM Moutinho and Anchorman Strootman. Dzeko in the front as Advanced Forward attack. Now, this 4 midfielder: Hazard, Pjanic, Mata and Moutinho are just running with ball and they create chances and score. I can't bring Dzeko to run in the space and give him a trough ball. I mean, what am I doing worn? Please. Because, I am happy that I am winning, but if I spend 35 mil. for Dzeko I want him to score, and not only stand there with opp.defenders and bringing them out op position. What should I do to confuse the 4 defenders behind, to give Dzeko space to run in and get a good Ball to strike?

Thanks

With a player good in the air like Dzeko, maybe you like more players crossing to him too. Eg your fb on attack duty whereby their crossing is on often.

[Marc Albrighton]

I've had the best results from a 4231 purely by keeping the roles simple but then being villa in the first few seasons you dont have the players to do much else. From what ive heard about bwm is you can only really use effectively in a 3 man midfield and since you have an anchorman anyway you could test other roles in the bwm slot.

[thomit]

Unfortunately, I've pretty much given up on this formation, as uncreative as that may be. :o I've also found that using a 4-1-2-2-1, with an AP-A in center, actually ends up creating what a lot of people using the 4-2-3-1 are looking for, particularly if they have PPM to get forward, ie Wilshere. I've tried using a lot of the suggestions in this thread to avoid overcrowding and cutting out the AMC, but have had limited, if any, success in doing so.

One key observation I've made is that W-A also ends up resulting in what a lot of people are trying to get out of the IF role. Walcott and Gervinho still cut inside all the time, but are actually more productive when doing so, playing the ball off a bit more instead of continuing their runs, and I'm scoring more goals by using them in those roles.

Again though, the key is space. I find that the 4-2-3-1 has limited my usage of the striker position as well. With the 4-1-2-2-1, I have much more success with CF and P roles for the striker. This again may just be down to the kind of players I have available in my team to try and implement the 4-2-3-1. Generally I was trying to play something like this:

Rigid - Control

AF(A)

IF(A) AP(S) W(A)

DLP(S) CM(D)

FB(auto) LD(D) CD(D) FB(auto)

GK(D)

I tend to agree with you that the 4-1-2-2-1 is a superior formation to the 4-2-3-1, on most occasions. Within FM, I must not forget to add. Having played with the 4-2-3-1 for several seasons, I have gone back to my tried and tested 4-1-2-2-1 (or 4-5-1, 4-3-3, whatever you prefer). I have won the PL and the CL with the 4-2-3-1, so success is perfectly avhievable, but the 4-1-2-2-1 is simply better overall. Where before I just managed to edge ahead of the competition with the 4-2-3-1, or just miss out, I now properly dominate with the 4-1-2-2-1. (And before anyone says yeah but that is because your team is getting better while the AI teams aren't ... No, I start from scratch in the 2012/13 season as I allways do when I make a major overhaul of the formation/tactic).

Arsenal: Very Fluid/Control or Attacking/Shorter/Zonal/More Roaming. Shouts "Work ball into box" and "Play through defense" on as default.

Goalkeeper/Defend

Wing Back/Automatic - Central Defender/Defend - Central Defender/Defend - Wing Back/Automatic

Defensive Midfielder/Defend

Advanced Playmaker/Support - Central Midfielder/Automatic

Inside Forward/Attack (wide play Normal) - Inside Forward/Attack (wide play Normal) - (These are set to swap).

Complete Forward/Support

[jonomagloneo]

I use a 4-2-3-1 with Brighton after initially consolidating as a PL side mostly with a 4-1-2-2-1 counter system. When I got to the point where I thought the make-up of my team warranted it (it was always the aim), I shifted to 4-2-3-1.

I’m now in 2019 – I missed out on the title by one point in 2018. I tinkered more than I should have in the early part of the following season (convinced I could find a better tactic) and suffered for it, so reverted back to the previous season’s setup, eventually.

I play balanced, standard or control (opposition-dependent), with zonal marking as the only other setting taken off default, except for drill crosses if I’m playing a particular striker. I use the work ball into box stat at the start of every match, other shouts as I see fit during.

Have finally settled on a starting set up as follows:

GK(d)

FB(s) - CD© - CD(x) - FB (a)

DLP(s) - CM (d)

W(s) - AP(A) - IF(a)

AF(a)

Breakdown

Goalkeeper – if I’m playing control or using the push higher up shout, I will quite often change the GK to SK(d). I’m aware my keeper is not a great sweeper keeper (they seem to die a death as the game goes on), so will never assign him a higher mentality than that.

Defence – it kind of flies against conventional wisdom to play a stopper and cover CD regardless of opposition setup, but it works a treat for me in almost all situations. I might just put both as defend if I’m against a slow (attack-wise), weaker team, but the stopper/cover combo just does the job, quite simply. I get outrageous average ratings from my cover CB – he just mops up everything. Full backs will often both go attack if appropriate.

Centre mids – I have Sven Bender, who is just awesome as a CM(d). He is now 30 and I have a back-up who is OK, but I’m nowhere near as solid without Sven. A solid 4-2-3-1 is heavily reliant on a Sven Bender-type and it’s a minor concern that I still haven’t really sorted a replacement for him. Alongside, I like my DLP(s) to be good positionally, have good concentration/anticipation and to still be a decent tackler. Luckily I have a 20 year old who has the classic playmaker stats, plus those above (positioning needs a little work though). I find it’s still the one position on the pitch where match ratings very rarely even hit 8.0, but it’s no less an essential role.

Wide men – first off, I prefer the winger/IF combo – always have. When utilising a 4-2-3-1 I would often swap the winger/IF’s mentalities over so they are W(a) and IF(s), but I have a right winger who’s a superb all-rounder (he can play CM too), a very good decision maker and my undoubted star player. I’ve pushed his creative freedom up from the default for a W(s) and having the DLP on his side means he gets the ball plenty. He can then do all manner of things with the ball, sometimes acting more as a playmaker, sometimes cutting in as would an IF, other times just working to get to the byline. My IF(a) in turn seems to prefer playing more advanced, so it’s just worked out this way.

The AP(a) and AF(a) combo – I love this combo, more than any other I’ve tried. When I started playing this formation, I played with an AP(s) with the AF(a). The space between them was too large and the striker would not get involved enough. With the striker pushing the defence back, the AP often has space in abundance and has plenty of options, while my striker works at finding a yard or two himself and isn't too far away from his teammate. GOD HELP YOU if your striker isn’t both fast and strong if you want to play him as a lone advanced forward – he arguably needs to be as much an all-rounder as a complete forward would in this formation. I do, however, have a plan B: another forward who works better as a CF(s). I then have both wide men go attack in mentality and my AMC may also go AM(a). This can help me break through against the more stubborn teams and utilises the pace of my AM strata.

This is a brilliant thread btw – have actually been working through it for a while now and it’s great to see how others are working this formation.

[Draigh]

Looks like a very solid set-up. I agree on the stopper-cover combination here, when there's a DM a stopper can be a bit superfluous and counterproductive, but as there's no one sitting in front of the defence you need one of the CB's to step out and contest that area, otherwise you risk your opponent getting space and time on the ball in the danger zone. If you've got the players to pull it off X/C in a 4-2-3-1 with CM's is the way to go IMO. One question though: why put the stopper on the side of your fb(a)? Wouldn't it make more sense to turn it around so the covering defender is next to the attacking fullback so he can sweep both in behind the stopper and the fullback?

Personally I'd put the DLP on the side of the inside forward as the DLP has the lowest mentality of your central duo, but it makes sense to get the right winger more involved, besides Bender is a brilliant defender.

[jonomagloneo]

It’s actually a recent change and not one I’m entirely on board with yet. What you say used be the way round I had it, but I’ve developed a very good stopper who is left footed and my best cover CB is right footed… thinking it through, I think you’re right – it’s just force of habit that led me to place them in line with their preferred foot.

If I recall, swapping the CMs left the IF(a) a little isolated and a long way from anyone when looking at the average positions... but thinking back I think that was also when I was playing both FB on support, so I may well give that another go too. Ta for the feedback.

[vasilli07]

A good read on how to counter various formation using the 4-2-3-1.

http://fmcoffeehouse.wordpress.com/2013/06/06/reactionary-tactical-analysis-crooked-4-2-3-1-with-manchester-united/

[HTC]

GK(d)

FB(s) - CD© - CD(x) - FB (a)

DLP(s) - CM (d)

W(s) - AP(A) - IF(a)

AF(a)

I am having success with a similar setup.

GK : GKd

RB : FBs

DCR : Cover

DCL : Stopper

LB : FBs

MCR : CMd

MCL : DLPs

AMR : Ws

AMC : APa

AML : Wa

ST : AFa

The idea of cover - stopper was the same. To cover the DM gap. And i chose the right one to cover so that he can fit the MCR who stays deeper.

The same goes for the Winger. The left one is in Attack duty and he has close the DLP. The right one is in support duty and he has close the "stay back" CM.

Balanced

Counter

Shorter

Disciplined

Stand off

Zonal

The others on default.

I ve also changed :

1. Long shots off.

2. All players (except the three in (3) have a value of 5 (short) in passing.

3. The Left Winger, the Advanced Playmaker and the DLP all have 14 Mentality AND Passing. So all the team follows the disciplined instructions (short passing, low CF) but when the ball goes to those three they look to attack directly either by passing or in general by mentality. They all have descent passing attributes.

4. Right Winger support - Through balls : Sometimes (because of bad passing attribute of my first eleven player)

5. Full backs do not run with ball and dont try throught balls. (again beacause of bad attributes. I like full backs with "DC" attributes especially jumping and heading.

6. Some nice set pieces setup. (Especialy in though ins, i have all players in default (SET TO DEFAULT), short distribution, and chosen my AMR to take the LEFT throw ins and my AML to take the RIGHT so that i dont lose from the field a DR/AMR/MCR to take a right side throw in AND i probably have a good oposite foot (cut inside) cross)

***My Advanced PLaymaker has low amount of goals and assists (My striker and my AML scores and assists the most) BUT HE HAS BY FAR THE MOST KEY PASSES.

[peleJunior]

The problem with this formation on FM13, while you can create a winning one is that the central midfield pair have to be defensive and the wings have to be very very good. I think like I have, you can read my formations on the first page, is that 352 is the better formation. You can do more interesting things in midfield yet retain that ST AM relationship upfront so a 3 def 2 wingbacks 2 central mids that can have a relationship with the AM and a ST. And 1 more position a DM or even a free roled genius .

[vasilli07]

The problem with this formation on FM13, while you can create a winning one is that the central midfield pair have to be defensive and the wings have to be very very good. I think like I have, you can read my formations on the first page, is that 352 is the better formation. You can do more interesting things in midfield yet retain that ST AM relationship upfront so a 3 def 2 wingbacks 2 central mids that can have a relationship with the AM and a ST. And 1 more position a DM or even a free roled genius .

What's the point of asking people to change their preference? Just because you preferred 3-5-2 doesn't mean other players need to follow suit. If not, we can all just talk about 3-5-2 and ignore all the other formations.

[peleJunior]

I was just thinking out loud really because I was obsessed with this formation for the ST AM combination it gives but was frustrated by the central midfield two in order to get it to work well. Like I said I posted two good set ups in the first page and was following the thread and had personal messages sent about my formations. So... I'm just saying that those who like a more dynamic midfield and want to keep the AM ST idea that 352 is a good formation.

[MilitoFan]

Hi

I keep getting the message from my AssMan that there's too much space between Def and Midfield, how do you cope with that?

I have a CM on defend duty, with very rigid instructions and the other is a DLP; defense is high (13) one CD is ball playing with cover duty, the WB are on support

I'm trying to play a la Mourinho, direct passes, rigid mentality, usually with counter or standard

[ShirazS]

Play with a higher defensive line by either press more or using a more attacking strategy. Your defense will then be closer to your midfield.

[MilitoFan]

Thanks, I already have set 'Press More'. I'll try with a Control mentality, I wanted to stick with Counter/Standard but if it's a way to avoid danger in the zone in front of the defence 'll do it

[ShirazS]

It will help but you will leave space behind the defense

[rvd313]

Currently into my 5th season with Rangers (I won the SPL easily at the first attempt - bit of an anti-climax tbh) and my tactics have evolved from 4-1-2-2-1 to 3-1-4-2 and now, most recently, 4-2-3-1.

My current set-up is as follows:

Philosophy: Very Fluid

Strategy: Either Control or Counter depending on the circumstances

Passing style: Shorter

Creative Freedom: Default

Closing Down: Press More

Tackling: Default

Marking: Zonal Marking

Crossing: Drill Crosses

Roaming: More Roaming

GK: Sweeper Keeper (A)

DR: Wing Back (A)

DL: Wing Back (A)

DCR: Central Defender (D)

DCL: Central Defender (D)

MCR: Central Midfielder (D)

MCL: Central Midfielder (D)

AMR: Winger (S)

AMC: Attacking Midfielder (S)

AML: Inside Forward (A)

FC: Advanced Forward (A)

Sometimes I change the AMR to an Inside Forward (S), and sometimes I play with a Complete Forward (S) and an Attacking Midfielder (A) combination, depending on the players I choose.

I really enjoy the football this set-up produces, which is mainly down to the Very Fluid philosophy, combined with the structure of the team. The two holding midfielders provides a solid base for the front four to roam around and create openings. The movement, overlaps and combination play is really quite exquisite at times, and as my team matures (I have a very young squad), and their decision making improves, I'm hoping it will get even better.

Who needs playmakers anyway?

[ensar13]

can somebody explain me what should I do to have more through balls? I mean, when I watch the attack movements in extended highlights, my striker put himself in a good position to get a trough pass, but insteed he stays with the defender and Hazard or Mata are just driblining in the middle and then strike the ball. There is so much space behind the defender in front of Hazard, and on the left of my Striker, and Hazard/Mata just need to push the ball in and he will run on it. But why aren't they doing it? what am I doing wrong in the tactic? I changed Hazard from IF to W with support duty, and let only Mata with IF attack, and Hazard is still running in the middlespace to try to score.

Please help me

[vasilli07]

can somebody explain me what should I do to have more through balls? I mean, when I watch the attack movements in extended highlights, my striker put himself in a good position to get a trough pass, but insteed he stays with the defender and Hazard or Mata are just driblining in the middle and then strike the ball. There is so much space behind the defender in front of Hazard, and on the left of my Striker, and Hazard/Mata just need to push the ball in and he will run on it. But why aren't they doing it? what am I doing wrong in the tactic? I changed Hazard from IF to W with support duty, and let only Mata with IF attack, and Hazard is still running in the middlespace to try to score.

Please help me

You may want to use him as a adv playmaker(S) instead. Hazard has rwb often as his ppm, you are asking him to do even more running with the ball in a winger role. With a adv playmaker(S) role, he will ttb often and with his ppm try killer balls, that may make him pass more.

[THOG]

Yes. Move into channels is more of a otb instruction while cutting inside is when a player has the ball.

While I agree with your overall point about modifying wideplay to get the best out of a 4231, I don't think this particular point is true. As wwfan noted a few years ago:

You are using the 'Move into Channels' option for wingers. Move into Channels is actually a wide movement for central players, encouraging them to move wider. WIngers should be given either "Hugs Touchline' which keeps them wide or 'Cuts Inside' which encourages them to move into more central positions.

Basically, there are two wideplay options for central players and three for wide players. Central players have "Normal" (i.e., no bias) and "Move into Channels" (i.e., tendency to go wide). Wide players have "Normal" (i.e., no bias), Cut Inside (i.e., tendency to move into the middle) and Hug the Touchline (i.e., tendency to stay wide and not cut inside). As I understand it, "unorthodox" OTB behaviour is a matter of creative freedom and roaming instructions.

Anyway, if you set a Winger to "Move into Channels" or a CM to "Cut Inside" or "Hug the Touchline," I suspect (based on my own comparative observations) that it simply defaults their wideplay instructions to "Normal," but "Normal" wideplay tends to promote exactly the kind of behaviour you describe: basically, wide players cut in late between defenders rather than remaining wide or dribbling straight at the defensive midfielders from the halfway line. This is why I think inside forwards, particularly attacking inside forwards, should use "Normal" wideplay rather than "Cut Inside" as the latter causes players to run inward too quickly which, while fine for deeper creative players looking to launch through balls over the defensive line, will typically neutralize attacking IFs with FM13's collision detection in place.

[vasilli07]

This is a point agreed by the late SFraser with regards to moves into channels. I respect WWfan's being the game guru but SFraser also has his point.

http://forums.fm-britain.co.uk/topic/7656-inside-fwd-problems-with-an-asymmetric-4-2-3-1/

Q: Could you explain the reasoning behind move into channels instead of cut inside?

A: Because if his strongest/stronger foot is matching the flank he plays he will have difficulties to cuts inside with his weak/weaker foot. That's why you should force him to move more without the ball to search those free spaces.

Q: Is cutting inside more like starting beside the byline and once he receives the ball he will go central?

A: This tactical instructions will force a player to run with the ball diagonally, when he receives it in wider position. But to cut inside/diagonal a player should use the opposite foot of his flank, and that foot should be his strongest/stronger. In other words this instructions is "with/on the ball instruction" - ie when the players is with the ball.

Q: And moving into channels is finding space between the fullback/centreback and then once he receives the ball...?

A: Yes, but that is "off the ball" instructions - ie player will tend to move off the ball/when he is not with the ball at his feet, trying to search those channels/free spaces.

[rvd313]

That's relating to an older version of FM. 'Cuts inside' is now both an on the ball, and an off the ball, instruction.

[Uncle_Sam]

And while SFraser was very astute, on questions about how the match engine works I would defer to wwfan.

[Gee_Simpson]

And while SFraser was very astute, on questions about how the match engine works I would defer to wwfan.

Without a doubt. Nobody knows the ME better than he does.

[jack95]

A little while back I was messing about with a Chelsea save and, with the formidable attacking powers of Hazard, Mata and Oscar at my disposal, I decided out of curiosity to modify my already cavalier 4-2-3-1 formation, setting all the attacking midfield roles to advanced playmaker, with maximum creative freedom and attacking mentality. I had a fluid, direct, attacking style with attacking full-backs. I was expecting an entertaining trainwreck but, to my surprise, it actually worked fairly well; not to the extent that I'd consider it a viable formation for every match, but something worth using against smaller teams perhaps.

Anyway, since I don't have a great tactical mind (usually when it comes to setting up a match I just go '4-3-3...fluid...attacking... and done!') I was wondering if people had suggestions for what player roles would best fit the two central midfielders behind my trio of APs? At first I tried pairing a defensive BWM with a defensive DLP, which sooort of worked if I was lucky because everyone just rampaged forward and we could have a good go at outscoring our opponents, but, as I've said, it's not the sort of thing I could get away with often. I tried two central midfielders with defensive roles but that was an unmitigated disaster. I was thinking perhaps I could pull the CM's back into a DM position? I doubt I'll ever be able to make this into a world-beating tactic without sacrificing the all-out attack that attracted me to this idea, but I thought with a bit of advice I might be able to make it as good as it can be.

[vasilli07]

Anyway, since I don't have a great tactical mind (usually when it comes to setting up a match I just go '4-3-3...fluid...attacking... and done!') I was wondering if people had suggestions for what player roles would best fit the two central midfielders behind my trio of APs? At first I tried pairing a defensive BWM with a defensive DLP, which sooort of worked if I was lucky because everyone just rampaged forward and we could have a good go at outscoring our opponents, but, as I've said, it's not the sort of thing I could get away with often. I tried two central midfielders with defensive roles but that was an unmitigated disaster. I was thinking perhaps I could pull the CM's back into a DM position? I doubt I'll ever be able to make this into a world-beating tactic without sacrificing the all-out attack that attracted me to this idea, but I thought with a bit of advice I might be able to make it as good as it can be.

CM(D) and Adv playmaker(S)

Guideline is always not to use BWM in a 2 men midfield. He will go around closing down, causing your team to lose your shape in the midfield area.