Setting up an effective 4-2-3-1

[retrodude09]

Well, you had Ben Arfa playing as IF-S so it's normal now for him to be more aggressive as W-A - he is more attacking and has more Creative Freedom with the new role.

I'm actually a big fan of Obertan in this position, purely because of how direct he is and his running and PPM's can get me out of trouble sometimes.

As a long time Barca fan, I'm quite familiar with Deulofeu IRL as I've been following his development. I can tell you that he is very similar type of player to Ronaldo, especially young Ronaldo from his first season at Man United. He is nothing like Messi. Hopefully he is given more playing time with the first team next season and we will see how he will develop.

As for in FM, here is how he looks for me at the start of the 3rd season:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

His attributes haven't changed at all since I bought him, so this is pretty much all AI development. I'm hoping that he will develop even more with my individual training for him. As you can see, he is rated at 4 1/2 stars PA, but what you don't see is that his CA is rated at 2 1/2 stars. So he has full 2 stars to grow yet. I checked his PPMs again and he does have "cuts inside" and "runs with ball often", so I was mistaken thinking that he doesn't have the former.

He looks very impressive. For 20 years old his dribbling; determination; flair and off the ball all look pretty solid, add to that he's a decent finisher and crosser and it looks like you have a pretty solid player. I might have to invest in him in my second season (if he's interested in joining) and see how I can develop him.

It makes sense that Cisse would rack up some assists considering that you've played him as CF-S in some games. Using that role against teams who sit deep and just defend works because it reduced RFD, thus gets the forward more involved in the general play. I've found that AF or Poacher doesn't work in this scenario because it isolates and hides the forward, which leads to him having a poor rating/game. DLF-S may work too, but I prefer CF-S because it gives the ST roaming and RWB often. Also, if you use Balanced style (which I've gone back to using), both roles would lower the mentality.

Regardless of role though, I always look to buy and use STs who have more complete set of attributes, which allow them to score, set up and taken on defenders. The attributes I usually look for are: finishing, dribbling, first touch, passing, technique, anticipation, composure, creativity, decisions, flair, off the ball, teamwork, acceleration, agility and pace.

Yeah I generally look for a more complete forward, just because it makes for better all round play. It's no good having a one-trick pony. Hopefully he can kick on and score a few goals after the African Cup of Nations and convince me that I shouldn't sell him.

As for attending games goes, you go to the match you want to watch and click in between the two teams and it should go from saying 'vs.' to saying 'attend'

[yonko]

I'm actually a big fan of Obertan in this position, purely because of how direct he is and his running and PPM's can get me out of trouble sometimes.

What are Obertan's PPMs?

He looks very impressive. For 20 years old his dribbling; determination; flair and off the ball all look pretty solid, add to that he's a decent finisher and crosser and it looks like you have a pretty solid player. I might have to invest in him in my second season (if he's interested in joining) and see how I can develop him.

Yes, he looks impressive and I'm very excited how he will develop further and contribute to my team. I just wish his decisions and teamwork attributes were a bit higher than 11, but hopefully through individual training in specific role I can improve those by 2-3 points.

I had my eye on him pretty much since the end of my first season. Just make sure you have him on your shortlist, check frequently if he is interested in joining your team, praise him and keep track if Barca actually play him. If I'm not mistaken he should have a release clause fee of around 11-12m euros (which should be around 10m pounds in your currency), unless he has signed a new contract.

Yeah I generally look for a more complete forward, just because it makes for better all round play. It's no good having a one-trick pony. Hopefully he can kick on and score a few goals after the African Cup of Nations and convince me that I shouldn't sell him.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Lacina Traore's attributes. How does he look and what PPMs does he have?

As for attending games goes, you go to the match you want to watch and click in between the two teams and it should go from saying 'vs.' to saying 'attend'

Thanks for that. I will check it out.

[retrodude09]

What are Obertan's PPMs?

He only has 'Runs With Ball Often' and he's right footed so I'm pretty surprised when he comes inside. Pleasantly surprised though.

Yes, he looks impressive and I'm very excited how he will develop further and contribute to my team. I just wish his decisions and teamwork attributes were a bit higher than 11, but hopefully through individual training in specific role I can improve those by 2-3 points.

I had my eye on him pretty much since the end of my first season. Just make sure you have him on your shortlist, check frequently if he is interested in joining your team, praise him and keep track if Barca actually play him. If I'm not mistaken he should have a release clause fee of around 11-12m euros (which should be around 10m pounds in your currency), unless he has signed a new contract.

Well, this is what he looks like in January of the first season:

Obviously his dribbling; determination and flair all stand out when you first look at him. Although it's nice to see that his finishing is pretty decent as is his passing and technique. & while looking at the moment his off the ball stat is good. Although as you said his decisions and teamwork let him down a little bit but hopefully they can be improved with tutoring and game time.

He's valued at £4.5 Million at the moment which isn't too expensive but it's whether he wants to leave Barcelona for Newcastle. If not I'm looking at Adam Lallana who is two footed and doesn't have too many PPM's.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with Lacina Traore's attributes. How does he look and what PPMs does he have?

and he has no PPM's which is a good thing.

Thanks for that. I will check it out.

No problem.

[Gee_Simpson]

@ yonko - So what is your lineup and roles now? It seems like it is forever changing, lol

[yonko]

He only has 'Runs With Ball Often' and he's right footed so I'm pretty surprised when he comes inside. Pleasantly surprised though.

Perhaps that's due to high Creative Freedom. What is his Flair attribute like?

Well, this is what he looks like in January of the first season:

Obviously his dribbling; determination and flair all stand out when you first look at him. Although it's nice to see that his finishing is pretty decent as is his passing and technique. & while looking at the moment his off the ball stat is good. Although as you said his decisions and teamwork let him down a little bit but hopefully they can be improved with tutoring and game time.

He's valued at £4.5 Million at the moment which isn't too expensive but it's whether he wants to leave Barcelona for Newcastle. If not I'm looking at Adam Lallana who is two footed and doesn't have too many PPM's.

Deulofeu's decisions and teamwork attributes wont improve with tutoring, only with good training. If you can find another winger who is professional and has higher determination, then it's worth tutoring him. On Barca saves I used to tutor him with Messi, but I choose the bottom option that doesn't transfer any PPMs rather only increases determination and hidden attributes (like professionalism and ambition).

What is Deulofeu's release clause fee in your game, is it low? It should be around 11m. If it is and he is interested in joining you now, then get him ASAP.

and he has no PPM's which is a good thing.

I personally wouldn't buy him as he doesn't have the attributes I look for in a ST. He doesn't even look good enough to be a Poacher, but good luck with him. How is Carlos Fierro in your game? Scout him and see how many stars he is rated with. If he is rated at 4 stars, then get him, give him good training and he will turn awesome. Also look at Neal Maulpay from Nice - a 16 year old.

[yonko]

@ yonko - So what is your lineup and roles now? It seems like it is forever changing, lol

LOL, yeah I keep on tweaking my tactic every season, but my most frequently used line up stays pretty consistent. Now I'm using this:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I've gone back to using Balanced style, because Fluid made me allow more goals in the 2nd season than I did in the 1st season (I think). I've also changed my Creative Freedom and Closing Down on Default (previously More Expressive and Press More, respectively). As you can see my AMC is my playmaker and I've given him roaming and moves into channels.

Every games I start with the only shout being "work ball into the box" to remove long shots for everyone. Then I also have Attacking and Defensive group of shouts, where the former also changes my Strategy to Attacking, while the latter changes it to Counter.

[retrodude09]

Perhaps that's due to high Creative Freedom. What is his Flair attribute like?

Obertan has 16 for flair which may explain why he comes inside.

Deulofeu's decisions and teamwork attributes wont improve with tutoring, only with good training. If you can find another winger who is professional and has higher determination, then it's worth tutoring him. On Barca saves I used to tutor him with Messi, but I choose the bottom option that doesn't transfer any PPMs rather only increases determination and hidden attributes (like professionalism and ambition).

What is Deulofeu's release clause fee in your game, is it low? It should be around 11m. If it is and he is interested in joining you now, then get him ASAP.

Of course, not sure why I said that when I knew full well it wouldn't work haha. The only person who could tutor him is Ben Arfa and I'm not sure about that.

It isn't low haha, it's £45 Million and he has no interest in joining me.

I personally wouldn't buy him as he doesn't have the attributes I look for in a ST. He doesn't even look good enough to be a Poacher, but good luck with him. How is Carlos Fierro in your game? Scout him and see how many stars he is rated with. If he is rated at 4 stars, then get him, give him good training and he will turn awesome. Also look at Neal Maulpay from Nice - a 16 year old.

I know he's not very complete but he has some good stats and he is only 22 so there's still a long way to go before he hits his peak, another 5/6 years in my eyes. I've heard of Fierro but I've never looked at him so I'll have to check him out. Although, I do have Adam Campbell in my squad and after reading the Newcastle team thread, I'm very excited about him.

In other news, I've slipped off of top spot and I'm now in second, a point behind United with 11 games to go. The truth is I'll be pleased to finish in the top four as it should do wonders for my reputation and my bank balance.

[yonko]

Obertan has 16 for flair which may explain why he comes inside.

16 for flair plus the high Creative Freedom explains it. How is his weaker foot rated?

Of course, not sure why I said that when I knew full well it wouldn't work haha. The only person who could tutor him is Ben Arfa and I'm not sure about that.

It isn't low haha, it's £45 Million and he has no interest in joining me.

He must've signed a new contract then, which means bad news for you. You wont be able to get him until the 3rd season and that is if you are lucky enough that Barca do not play him much. This is what happened on my save and I had to spend 26m euros to get him (most of the money was spread over 48 months though).

I wouldn't tutor him with Ben Arfa, btw.

I know he's not very complete but he has some good stats and he is only 22 so there's still a long way to go before he hits his peak, another 5/6 years in my eyes. I've heard of Fierro but I've never looked at him so I'll have to check him out. Although, I do have Adam Campbell in my squad and after reading the Newcastle team thread, I'm very excited about him.

Sorry, but IMO at 22 you wouldn't be able to get his attributes to more complete level. I can show you later how Fierro looks for me at 20 and you will see that he has more complete attributes than Traore.

In other news, I've slipped off of top spot and I'm now in second, a point behind United with 11 games to go. The truth is I'll be pleased to finish in the top four as it should do wonders for my reputation and my bank balance.

Hopefully you will regain 1st place. Imagine what that would do for your reputation and bank balance.

[retrodude09]

16 for flair plus the high Creative Freedom explains it. How is his weaker foot rated?

His left foot is rated at fairly strong which I didn't know so like I said, I'm pleasantly surprised.

He must've signed a new contract then, which means bad news for you. You wont be able to get him until the 3rd season and that is if you are lucky enough that Barca do not play him much. This is what happened on my save and I had to spend 26m euros to get him (most of the money was spread over 48 months though).

I wouldn't tutor him with Ben Arfa, btw.

His contract (IIRC) was till 2015 so I'm just going to have to keep an eye on him and hope I can steal him from him. Although like I said I think Lallana is my number one target in the summer because I like how two footed he is and he has some good stats. That and he won't cost too much I hope.

Sorry, but IMO at 22 you wouldn't be able to get his attributes to more complete level. I can show you later how Fierro looks for me at 20 and you will see that he has more complete attributes than Traore.

Perhaps you're right but I've been pretty pleased with what I've seen of him so far so we'll see.

Hopefully you will regain 1st place. Imagine what that would do for your reputation and bank balance.

Definitely, that would be fantastic but I'm still in every competition I entered at the start of the season. So my team is competitive and looking at the run in I have towards the end of the season, I'll do very well to stay in the top four, never mind keep up with United. My last 5 games are: Chelsea; Man City; Tottenham; Liverpool and Sunderland. I'm hoping by then I'll have secured a top four spot although I will have secured a Europa League place for next season because I'm in the final of the Capital One Cup against Manchester United.

[j4y_z]

LOL, yeah I keep on tweaking my tactic every season, but my most frequently used line up stays pretty consistent. Now I'm using this:

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I've gone back to using Balanced style, because Fluid made me allow more goals in the 2nd season than I did in the 1st season (I think). I've also changed my Creative Freedom and Closing Down on Default (previously More Expressive and Press More, respectively). As you can see my AMC is my playmaker and I've given him roaming and moves into channels.

Every games I start with the only shout being "work ball into the box" to remove long shots for everyone. Then I also have Attacking and Defensive group of shouts, where the former also changes my Strategy to Attacking, while the latter changes it to Counter.

So, what does your football look like with both Götze and Reus being attacking wingers? I expect them to constantly run to the byline and cross. Or am I wrong?

[yonko]

So, what does your football look like with both Götze and Reus being attacking wingers? I expect them to constantly run to the byline and cross. Or am I wrong?

First, I must say that I can't play this save anymore as it no longer loads, corrupted perhaps I don't know. Therefore I've started a new save with Dortmund where I use the exact same tactic. However, I haven't had enough time to play in the last few days, due to other obligations.

Second, the play from Reus and Gotze is such that they still cut inside as that is one of their PPMs, they both have high Creative Freedom instructions and neither one of them has "runs with the ball down left/right" PPM. They both start out wide near the sideline and then cut inside since there is also where the space is. Occasionally they may run down the side and cross, but rarely in my experience. However, if I play Blaszczykowski there, he mixes it up more as he has "runs with the ball down right" PPM.

It all depends on what kind of player you have playing in that position/role, what his PPMs are and attributes. Look for players who have "cuts inside" PPM and if they have "runs with ball through center" even better.

[agentvinz]

Anybody know how to replicate Bayern's 4-2-3-1 this season? I never watched them but from what I read from news they keep winning with crazy scoreline! And they've won the Bundesliga with record too!

[soccer.joel]

What I'd say Bayern do

GK- D (Neuer)

WB-S (Lahm) - CD-D (Dante) - CD-D (Badstuber when he's fit) - WB-A (Alaba)

DLP-D (Martinez) - DLP-S (Schwensteiger)

IF-A (Muller / Robben) - AP-A (Kroos) - IF-A (Ribery)

CF-A (Mandzukic)

Short passing

More pressing

control / attacking strategy

fluid

more expressive

[soccer.joel]

Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong

[vasilli07]

Mandzukic should be a defensive forward like how Ivica Olic did for their last time. Robben and Ribery don't do alot of defending so the front defending duties will be Muller and Mandzukic responsibility.

[yaşar]

soccer.joel how about marking and roaming ?

[yaşar]

Mandzukic should be a defensive forward like how Ivica Olic did for their last time. Robben and Ribery don't do alot of defending so the front defending duties will be Muller and Mandzukic responsibility.

defensive forward attack or support ?

[iMan]

Mandzukic should be a defensive forward like how Ivica Olic did for their last time. Robben and Ribery don't do alot of defending so the front defending duties will be Muller and Mandzukic responsibility.

He's more a CF s. He contributes far more to Bayerns general playing than Olic ever did.

[agentvinz]

I think their philosophy should be Balanced because their fullback is very attacking, and mixed passing too because they play long ball sometimes, and they use DM instead of CM that's the reason why their defence is very solid. Not sure about their strategy whether control or attacking.

[däkkä]

MC/DM deep-lying playmaker / support Bastian Schweinsteiger

- primary playmaker

- stays deep but as a former winger runs with the ball a bit

AMR inside forward / attack Thomas Müller

- dribbling and finishing

AMC advanced playmaker / support Toni Kroos

- making play through passing rather than dribbling is his priority

- also needs to do a defensive job (tight marking which attack duty doesn't have)

AML advanced playmaker / attack Franck Ribéry

- generally gets the ball deeper than the right winger + also looks more for the overlap of the full-back

- cuts inside and runs at the defence

- plays expansive passing game and has most key passes in the team

FC defensive forward / support Mandzukic

- dribbling isn't a major part of his game and he plays simple passes most of the time

- basically he's there to be a presence in the box and before that to play easy lay-offs for the creative 3 AM players and work defensive as well

[vasilli07]

defensive forward attack or support ?

I will probably go for attack since he will be higher up the pitch to close down the centre defenders. But if you decide to use 2 IF(att) or am(att), maybe you can put him on sup so that he will vacate the space for them to attack.

[yaşar]

I will probably go for attack since he will be higher up the pitch to close down the centre defenders. But if you decide to use 2 IF(att) or am(att), maybe you can put him on sup so that he will vacate the space for them to attack.

what they use in real life 2 İF att wider or 2AM att narrow ?

[yaşar]

MC/DM deep-lying playmaker / support Bastian Schweinsteiger

- primary playmaker

- stays deep but as a former winger runs with the ball a bit

AMR inside forward / attack Thomas Müller

- dribbling and finishing

AMC advanced playmaker / support Toni Kroos

- making play through passing rather than dribbling is his priority

- also needs to do a defensive job (tight marking which attack duty doesn't have)

AML advanced playmaker / attack Franck Ribéry

- generally gets the ball deeper than the right winger + also looks more for the overlap of the full-back

- cuts inside and runs at the defence

- plays expansive passing game and has most key passes in the team

FC defensive forward / support Mandzukic

- dribbling isn't a major part of his game and he plays simple passes most of the time

- basically he's there to be a presence in the box and before that to play easy lay-offs for the creative 3 AM players and work defensive as well

could you write the whole tactic roles and duties ?

[däkkä]

For the defensive five I'd go pretty much like what soccer.joel initially pondered with the caveat that I'd use balanced instead of fluid.

[yaşar]

For the defensive five I'd go pretty much like what soccer.joel initially pondered with the caveat that I'd use balanced instead of fluid.

ok 2mc deeplaying playmaker support or 2dmc deeplaying playmaker support ?

[vasilli07]

what they use in real life 2 İF att wider or 2AM att narrow ?

Most like wide since they are always cutting inside. If it's AM, then they won't cut inside since they are just directly behind the S.

[Techstep]

I'm amazed how well Lewandowksi has performed for you. Especially the goal return. I've switched recently to a 4-2-3-1 from a 4-1-2-2-1 to try and take advantage of a very good goal scoring striker i have, best suited as an advanced forward, but for the life of me I've not been able to him scoring goals. Even when winning its not usually him doing the scoring.

Whether it as an AF or a Poacher, free roaming on and off, i just cannot get him to score enough goals. I can only assume that Lewandowski's off the ball movement allows him to thrive there for you as my striker often seems to be marked out of the game, his off the ball movement is 16, which is not dire, but for a lone striker pushing the line on his own i am guessing is not enough in this iteration of FM.

It's a shame really, despite how interesting i find false 9's and the like, i still prefer my striker to be my main goal scorer, but i see a lot of comments in threads by people with more knowledge than myself saying that a lone advanced forward or poacher is not really viable. I was determined to find a way to do this, but i've since tried many methods and cannot find a consistent supply to him.

How are most of Lewandowki's goals scored for you? As i imagine, being Dortmund, a lot of teams will defend against you and won't leave much space to run into behind?

[iMan]

Anything is viable. There isnt just one way to play Football. How many goals did benezema and higuian bang in last season playing as Advanced Forwards? It all comes down to the way you set up your tactic.

You can however get a false 9 type to be your top scorer. In 2 different tactics I've had my CF s be my top goal scorer.

Another tactic the treq was the top goal scorer. Just because they are creative and look to play people in doesn't mean they can't rack up big goal tallys.

[thomit]

I play a 4231 with Arsenal. But the "default" 4231, not pushing the left and right AM out wide. This makes space for my attacking D L/R's who keep the width. Very Fluid, Control (mostly), slightly lower Defensive Line than the TC's default, and slightly lower Closing Down on the defenders and holding midfielders. Shorter passing, Zonal, more Roaming, drill crosses, the rest default. (Note: Not more creative freedom, and not more pressing. Also tweaked individual settings so that in effect I'm playing with the equivalent to the shouts "Work ball into box" and "Play through defence". All the time. In effect this means everyone on long shots rarely, and every player normally on run with ball often changed to sometimes. DL and DR gets RWB rarely, and told to hug the line. It took me 3 seasons to get Arsenal back up where they belong, winning the PL and the CL. On course to doing the same now in the fourth season.

GK - GK/defend. Szczesny/Bardi.

D L- WB/auto, DCR - DC/defend, DCL - DC/defend, DR - WB/auto. Danilo/Faraoni, Koscielny/Mertesacker, Alderweireld/Vermaelen, Alex Sandro/José Ángel (Note: Slow Per performs like a giant with this slightly lower DL, his lack of speed doesn't seem to bother him).

MCR - CM/auto, MCL - CM/defend. Ramsay/Nainggolan, Capoue/Coquelin. (Nainggolan is a gem, can perform well in both positions. Tends to pick up a lot of yellow's, but hey ...).

AMCR - AM/attack, AMC - AM/support, AMCL - AM/attack. Belhanda/Torje, Wilshere/Pjanic, Oxlade-Chamberlain/Cazorla. (AMCR and AMCL constantly swapping positions. The exact positioning of these AM's is not critical - they all roam around a lot and swaps positions -, but Wilshere is immense in the central position).

ST - CF/support - Giroud/Destro. (Note: Giroud shouldn't perform well as a CF given his stats, but he does, strangely. So did Chamakh, who I just sold before the start of the fourth season. With Giroud playing I take away his roaming, Destro I leave as is).

As you can see, not a wholesale changing of the guard, and not one player that cost more than £20m (think the highest fee was Alex Sandro for 18,5 million). Plenty cash from the sale of Walcott, Gervinho and Gibbs. The best Arsenal talents (Szczesny, Wilshere, Ramsay, Coquelin) have come into their full power by this stage.

With this I dominate posession and play in most matches, while producing some play that is sometimes breathtakingly beautiful, truly Arsenal. By lowering the TC's default DefLine two notches and also lowering the keeper, defenders and holding midfielders closing down two notches (from the default), the defensive shape is more solid, not so easily dragged out of positions. Kept the roles and duties straightforward, and with a very fluid philosophy. I have the best statistics both attacking and defending in the PL. First season third in the league, second season 2nd, and third season 1.st and winning the CL. Better/more suitable players in every season, you know.

I put a lot of effort into training the younger players into shape - sometimes critical is the learning or unlearning of PPM's.

Playing Very Fluid, teamwork is very important. So I keep my match prep focus on teamwork all the time - except for pre-season, when it's on tactics only.

I don't bother with OI's, but I let my assman (Bould) set some at the start of each match. The focus is on getting my team to play as I want - not bothering much with what the opposition does. Son Of Wenger

[Collzy]

Just to share my deep 4-2-3-1. I have always preferred the deep version of it because it's better defensively and offensively, the dms will also have more time to look for a pass.

OI

AML/ML - Right foot

AMR/MR - Left foot

The reason for this OI to make them cut inside to take a long shot, run at my defence or try a through ball. With 2 dms protecting my defenders, it will be harder to do so. Compared to letting them cross and hoping my defenders win headers, I will rather take my chance with their long shots which will probably see them score 1 in maybe 40-50 attempts.

With their wide players forced inside, they will be forced into a narrow formation which will play into my hands. I will always have 6 players defending, 7 including the gk, it won't be easy for them to score. At times, I will also use my AML/AMR to mm their fullbacks. That will give me more numbers when defending. And with my players pace, if they force more players up to attack, I could counter attack them easily.

Results so far in my 1st season

Well thought out system, slightly different to what I had planned in my head.

Quick question and apologies if this has already been answered, but what shouts do you generally use? Or is literally just depending on the situation?

[matty2323]

since the latest patch, ive found myself struggling to break down 4-4-2 formations, both home and away against weaker opposition. Im playing everton, 5th season and have a strong squad. Im going into the games as favorites, the morale is high, professionalism is high.. everything suggests i should be beating them. but im limping to draws, and sometimes losses. The next game ill play a top 6 side and pump them 4-0 (due to them playing a more extravagant formation then 4-4-2). Traditionally i played wider and then exploited the middle with the extra player but this seems to no longer work for me.

[dooro23]

Short note regarding the FC Bayern tactic, the AML is an IF(s). You might want to argue that the AMR is one as well with Lahm being a FB(a), as the IFs both get to the ball not too high up the pitch, but rather in the middle - unless they are launching a counter attack.

The 2 up front are a DF(a)/AMC(s) combo. In DM position it's either DLP(d)/DM(s) or DLP(s)/DM(d), but they are switching the duties, sometimes even mid-game.

[yonko]

Once again, watching Dortmund vs Real M game, I noticed how much Gotze moves from his AMC position out to the wings. Zonalmarking.net also talks about it in their analysis of the game. I'm intrigued to once again to try and make it work on FM.

[vasilli07]

Well thought out system, slightly different to what I had planned in my head.

Quick question and apologies if this has already been answered, but what shouts do you generally use? Or is literally just depending on the situation?

I only use work ball into ball for normal situations

I have 2 other sets of shouts for 2 other situations.

Counter - Counter strategy - Drop Deeper, Pass Into Space, Play Narrower, Run At Defence, Get Ball Forward and Exploit The Flanks

Need A Goal - Attacking/Overload - Run At Defence, Shoot On Sight(if you have a few good range shooters), Hit Early Crosses and Get Ball Forward

[vasilli07]

Once again, watching Dortmund vs Real M game, I noticed how much Gotze moves from his AMC position out to the wings. Zonalmarking.net also talks about it in their analysis of the game. I'm intrigued to once again to try and make it work on FM.

1 is probably using the trequartista role. Another 1 I could think of is placing your AMC on the side you like to overload.

Eg, overloading the right side

AML-----AMCR--AMR

[agentvinz]

You can easily achieve it with move into channel wide play and tick roaming on. The player will roam wide pretty much like Gotze does against Madrid but I personally dislike that since he will move away from the 'hole', where an AMC could hurt the opposition the most

[Gee_Simpson]

What pleased me about last nights game is that we seen a top class performance from a classic number 9 in Robert Lewandowski. Now don't get me wrong, I realise that False 9's are now quite popular and are effective but I'm more a fan of the classic number 9 role and Lewandowski and Dortmund might just influence teams to start bringing it back by proving that it can still be very effective at the top level of football, I hope so!

[iMan]

What pleased me about last nights game is that we seen a top class performance from a classic number 9 in Robert Lewandowski. Now don't get me wrong, I realise that False 9's are now quite popular and are effective but I'm more a fan of the classic number 9 role and Lewandowski and Dortmund might just influence teams to start bringing it back by proving that it can still be very effective at the top level of football, I hope so!

I wouldn't say he's a classic number 9. More like a modern all round striker. Can score goals, create goals, drop deep and link up play compete in the air. In fm terms he'd probably be a CF A or S. Classic number 9s just tended to just bang in goals.

[ModernLefty]

I wouldn't say he's a classic number 9. More like a modern all round striker. Can score goals, create goals, drop deep and link up play compete in the air. In fm terms he'd probably be a CF A or S. Classic number 9s just tended to just bang in goals.

+1 Was about to say that but you got there first, plus he also defends much more than a classic 9.

[Gee_Simpson]

Yes of course, but I think he still plays more like a number 9 rather than a false 9. Although he is involved in different phases of play, his focus is more on scoring goals rather than assisting, which is good to see. Yeah a more modern number 9 I guess.

[ModernLefty]

... or Brendan Rodger's favourite, the 9 and a half.

[yonko]

1 is probably using the trequartista role. Another 1 I could think of is placing your AMC on the side you like to overload.

Eg, overloading the right side

AML-----AMCR--AMR

Why Trequartista role?

You can easily achieve it with move into channel wide play and tick roaming on. The player will roam wide pretty much like Gotze does against Madrid but I personally dislike that since he will move away from the 'hole', where an AMC could hurt the opposition the most

I do have my AMC with moves into channels and roaming on. I also have the crossing set to often. I tried AM-attack and AP-attack roles. The former pushes him too far upfield and he becomes sort of detached from the 2MCs (DLP-support and CM-defend). The latter keeps him closer to the midfield but it doesn't make him drift wide as much I want him to. I'll need to play more games to see if I could make it work.

You say that you personally dislike your AMC drifting wider because you want him in the hole. But a lot of times there is no hole for him to be in, if the opposition is using a DM or two. Mourinho has used Sneijder at Inter and Ozil at Real M drifting wider and they've caused a lot of problems that way. Gotze did the same for Dortmund vs (interestingly) Mourinho's Madrid.

[agentvinz]

Why Trequartista role?

I do have my AMC with moves into channels and roaming on. I also have the crossing set to often. I tried AM-attack and AP-attack roles. The former pushes him too far upfield and he becomes sort of detached from the 2MCs (DLP-support and CM-defend). The latter keeps him closer to the midfield but it doesn't make him drift wide as much I want him to. I'll need to play more games to see if I could make it work.

You say that you personally dislike your AMC drifting wider because you want him in the hole. But a lot of times there is no hole for him to be in, if the opposition is using a DM or two. Mourinho has used Sneijder at Inter and Ozil at Real M drifting wider and they've caused a lot of problems that way. Gotze did the same for Dortmund vs (interestingly) Mourinho's Madrid.

You can use the treq role, the default PI has move into channel and roaming, with run of deep rarely he'll play close to your MCs, and still move wide. I've tried a combination of DLP def, DLP support and treq, and I have lots of possession because they form a triangle and play lots of passes each other. But unforunately about 95% of the passes are either backward or sideway passes, I think because 3 of them have run from deep rarely so they will just passes each other. That's why I don't like using Treq because they mostly play safe passes to retain possession. I haven't managed to get my Treq to have lots of key passes.

I agree with you that both Sneijder and Ozil has caused problems by moving wide but in FM that doesn't work for me.

[yonko]

You can use the treq role, the default PI has move into channel and roaming, with run of deep rarely he'll play close to your MCs, and still move wide. I've tried a combination of DLP def, DLP support and treq, and I have lots of possession because they form a triangle and play lots of passes each other. But unforunately about 95% of the passes are either backward or sideway passes, I think because 3 of them have run from deep rarely so they will just passes each other. That's why I don't like using Treq because they mostly play safe passes to retain possession. I haven't managed to get my Treq to have lots of key passes.

I agree with you that both Sneijder and Ozil has caused problems by moving wide but in FM that doesn't work for me.

I don't want to use Treq as my AMC for a few reasons. The first and main one is because of his low closing down. The second reason is because I want my AMC to drift wider ahead of the AMR/L not behind them (therefore my AML is IF-support, while my AMR is W-support). The third reason is because my midfield three will lack forward runs. I do not agree with you that the Treq plays mostly backward passes, because he has maximum Creative Freedom and TTB often. However, theoretically using 2 DLPs and Treq in midfield could lead to better possession, that is not what I'm aiming for with my tactic though.

[thomit]

It's allowed to tweak your treq's settings, you know. If you want him to close down, use the slider. Sliders are there for that. Or you can make your own custom "role" with them. Has the TQ got such a hold on you guys now that you're afraid to deviate from it? :confused:

[Julien62740]

I just started a save with Dortmund, so playing a 4-2-3-1. I manage to buy Deulofeu, and Van Wolfswinkel (a striker from Sporting portugal) for Lewandowski back up. I'm in October now, just one game lost and a draw. Other games are winning. The problem is that I conceded to much goals.. 11 games played, 13 goals conceded. (36 scored). For example, I won 3-2 against Ajax, loose 3-1 against Shaktar, draw 2-2 against Hamburg, won 4-2 against Hanovre. In 11 games, there are only 3 games in which I don't conceded goals, and it was against "underdogs". My team is set like that

Gk (D)

FB (A) - BPD© - BPD © - FB (S)

CM (D)-DLP(D)

IF(S) T (A) If (S)

AF (A)

Zonal marking, high defensiv line, high tempo, short passing, high pressing. Balanced and Attacking.

Thanks!

[Guest]

I just started a save with Dortmund, so playing a 4-2-3-1. I manage to buy Deulofeu, and Van Wolfswinkel (a striker from Sporting portugal) for Lewandowski back up. I'm in October now, just one game lost and a draw. Other games are winning. The problem is that I conceded to much goals.. 11 games played, 13 goals conceded. (36 scored). For example, I won 3-2 against Ajax, loose 3-1 against Shaktar, draw 2-2 against Hamburg, won 4-2 against Hanovre. In 11 games, there are only 3 games in which I don't conceded goals, and it was against "underdogs". My team is set like that

Gk (D)

FB (A) - BPD© - BPD © - FB (S)

CM (D)-DLP(D)

IF(S) T (A) If (S)

AF (A)

Zonal marking, high defensiv line, high tempo, short passing, high pressing. Balanced and Attacking.

Thanks!

We would need to know where the goals are comming from, how about some screenies about where the goals you are conceding are comming from. The most obvious would be counter attacks, balls over the top, slow defenders etc But you would need to show us or let us know where you are conceding from.

[vasilli07]

Why Trequartista role?

What thomit said is correct. Or you could actually use the adv playmaker(sup). Change his wide play into move into channels, roaming on and rwb often. Central wingers are supposed to be good dribblers so get them to run with ball at the centre area.

[vasilli07]

I just started a save with Dortmund, so playing a 4-2-3-1. I manage to buy Deulofeu, and Van Wolfswinkel (a striker from Sporting portugal) for Lewandowski back up. I'm in October now, just one game lost and a draw. Other games are winning. The problem is that I conceded to much goals.. 11 games played, 13 goals conceded. (36 scored). For example, I won 3-2 against Ajax, loose 3-1 against Shaktar, draw 2-2 against Hamburg, won 4-2 against Hanovre. In 11 games, there are only 3 games in which I don't conceded goals, and it was against "underdogs". My team is set like that

Gk (D)

FB (A) - BPD© - BPD © - FB (S)

CM (D)-DLP(D)

IF(S) T (A) If (S)

AF (A)

Zonal marking, high defensiv line, high tempo, short passing, high pressing. Balanced and Attacking.

Thanks!

The 1st problem I see is high d-line, high pressing and attacking strategy. With that, your closing down and d-line is at its max. I will be very surprised if they don't concede goals. And with the exception of Hummels, the other Dortmund defenders are not that good, either average/poor at positioning or concentration.

[Julien62740]

We would need to know where the goals are comming from, how about some screenies about where the goals you are conceding are comming from. The most obvious would be counter attacks, balls over the top, slow defenders etc But you would need to show us or let us know where you are conceding from.

Goals I conceded didn't came from counter attacks, they came from through balls which often pass above my defender.. they came from set pieces, and from defenders "mistakes" like don't tackling the opposition forward and just stand there in front of him until he shots.. or trying to make an header when the ball is too far away. I'll take screenshot during futur games to show you.

The 1st problem I see is high d-line, high pressing and attacking strategy. With that, your closing down and d-line is at its max. I will be very surprised if they don't concede goals. And with the exception of Hummels, the other Dortmund defenders are not that good, either average/poor at positioning or concentration.

So I should reduce de d-line? I'm gonna try this. I have also Subotic who is quite good!