Setting up an effective 4-2-3-1

[yonko]

It's allowed to tweak your treq's settings, you know. If you want him to close down, use the slider. Sliders are there for that. Or you can make your own custom "role" with them. Has the TQ got such a hold on you guys now that you're afraid to deviate from it? :confused:

I know that it is possible to tweak roles, I've been doing it already. I just prefer to have the closing down controlled by the TC. Read below for further info.

What thomit said is correct. Or you could actually use the adv playmaker(sup). Change his wide play into move into channels, roaming on and rwb often. Central wingers are supposed to be good dribblers so get them to run with ball at the centre area.

I'm using AP(A) as it gives more creative freedom. Moves into channels and roaming are on. The rest of the players around my AMC are given roles to create more space for him to roam around and drift wide.

-------------CF(A)-------------

--------------------------------

IF(S)-------AP(A)--------W(S)

--------------------------------

------DLP(S)----CM(D)-------

I've also tweaked my ST's wide play to "normal" so only my AMC would be moving into the wide channels.

[peleJunior]

I think the fascination comes from not asking the striker to be the creative outlet. As most people think of a striker as getting on the end of things and are more taken with the skilful genius number 10 that occupies the AM slot. That is certainly my fascination with the formation. The limitations of the engine are frustrating though with the formation as I would love a split CB with the lowest mentality MC slotting into the central area effectively creating 3 at the back without possesion and a 1 - 2 midfield with possesion. My frustration is more to do with the fact that this has been in football a few years now and the engine still doesn't replicate it. It's far from a one off now, I think most tacticians would agree on that? The problem without that kind of flexibilty is you have to play two defensive mentalities in the MC slot restricting alot of tactical advantage over a two man midfield which should be the whole point of the system i.e. a 1 - 2 midfield in possesion.

[vasilli07]

Goals I conceded didn't came from counter attacks, they came from through balls which often pass above my defender.. they came from set pieces, and from defenders "mistakes" like don't tackling the opposition forward and just stand there in front of him until he shots.. or trying to make an header when the ball is too far away. I'll take screenshot during futur games to show you.

So I should reduce de d-line? I'm gonna try this. I have also Subotic who is quite good!

If you are using attacking strategy, your d-line and closing down are already quite high, so you can just leave your team instructions closing down and d-line at the default. Do not use shouts like push higher up.

[vasilli07]

I'm using AP(A) as it gives more creative freedom. Moves into channels and roaming are on. The rest of the players around my AMC are given roles to create more space for him to roam around and drift wide.

-------------CF(A)-------------

--------------------------------

IF(S)-------AP(A)--------W(S)

--------------------------------

------DLP(S)----CM(D)-------

I've also tweaked my ST's wide play to "normal" so only my AMC would be moving into the wide channels.

Any reason for your ST's wide play on normal?

[yonko]

Any reason for your ST's wide play on normal?

It says it right there..."so only my AMC would be moving into the wide channels". However, he is not drifting wide as much as a ST would....I guess it is not coded that way into the ME.

[drinkmixer84]

Hey all, love this thread as I've been focusing on 4-2-3-1 since fm12. I wanted to hear from you guys what you think of my tactic. I originally had a lot of success with passing set to "default" but my ultimate goal is to have passing set to shorter so i can better utilize a pass and move possession based system.

[Pipson]

im struggling to put this together with benfica, any advice? whats the best set up atm for this formation?

[DeadlyBren]

Can a 4-2-3-1 work with a Counter strategy? Or would Control be a better option seen as I am a top side?

[Gee_Simpson]

Can a 4-2-3-1 work with a Counter strategy? Or would Control be a better option seen as I am a top side?

Of course it can. What makes you think control would be better as you are a top side? Counter strategy doesn't mean your team will be defensive.

[vasilli07]

im struggling to put this together with benfica, any advice? whats the best set up atm for this formation?

Maybe you like to post your screenshot of your squad so that people can help.

[vasilli07]

Can a 4-2-3-1 work with a Counter strategy? Or would Control be a better option seen as I am a top side?

I'm on standard.

[agentvinz]

Can a 4-2-3-1 work with a Counter strategy? Or would Control be a better option seen as I am a top side?

It can work but you better play the deep version with DMs instead of CMs since it will offer better defence, also with DMs it will open more space for your AMC to exploit

[Luizinho]

What roles do you guys find to be most effective the wings? I don't want my wingers to clog up the space of the AMC; so I'm against Inside forwards (Supports); however I can see a lot of people are using them?? Surely they make the AMC redundant almost??

Another question would be of the Fullbacks... When I play a winger (support) on one side; I use an attacking fullback; in order to supply the attacking threat. Then use a defensive fullback on the wing with a winger (attack)? Is the right way round???

[vasilli07]

What roles do you guys find to be most effective the wings? I don't want my wingers to clog up the space of the AMC; so I'm against Inside forwards (Supports); however I can see a lot of people are using them?? Surely they make the AMC redundant almost??

Another question would be of the Fullbacks... When I play a winger (support) on one side; I use an attacking fullback; in order to supply the attacking threat. Then use a defensive fullback on the wing with a winger (attack)? Is the right way round???

If you are using AMC(sup), he will usually stay in the hole to spray the passes while your IFs will attack the box. If you do not want to use IF, you are only left with pure wingers role. Or you can try using wingers(sup), their wide play is normal, so they or their ppms(ie cut inside or hug touchline) will let them decide what they want to do themselves.

As for the fullbacks, I believe it's ok to put on on support.

[Luizinho]

If you are using AMC(sup), he will usually stay in the hole to spray the passes while your IFs will attack the box. If you do not want to use IF, you are only left with pure wingers role. Or you can try using wingers(sup), their wide play is normal, so they or their ppms(ie cut inside or hug touchline) will let them decide what they want to do themselves.

As for the fullbacks, I believe it's ok to put on on support.

What are the differences between using wingers/inside forwards on Attack or Support? Is it linked to the strategy?, players? or the Players around them?

[vasilli07]

What are the differences between using wingers/inside forwards on Attack or Support? Is it linked to the strategy?, players? or the Players around them?

Read the tactic creator explanation of the role/duty. They should give you a rough idea. Also compare the instructions of the different duties and you will see the differences. From there, you should know which role/duty suits your tactic more.

[Luizinho]

Read the tactic creator explanation of the role/duty. They should give you a rough idea. Also compare the instructions of the different duties and you will see the differences. From there, you should know which role/duty suits your tactic more.

Well at the momment I'm playing with 2 inside forwards (Attack) and seems to be working okay... However my idea is that if the winger hasn't got exceptional skills over his fullback, then I would change the role to Support?

[Luizinho]

I'm really confused on what the best set-up for my team is!

Heres what I've been playing throughout the season; with good success:

I use Attacking at home against Weak teams.

I use Control at home against all other teams

I use Control away against weak teams.

I use Standard away against everyone else.

However I'm really stuck on 2 aspects of this formation...

Team Instructions, as you can see from my instructions everything is on default except for marking. I think zonal is a safe and assured type of marking as it keeps the shape. Everything else I'm too scared to change. My team is a top table team. So I should be positive against the majority of the league; except for the few (Zenit, CSKA, Anji and Spartack.).

I was wondering if you guys could help me! I want to utilize my strength with this tactic.

Strengths

- Big Strong Target Man and a good finisher (Kevin Kuranyi)

- A good Attacking 3 (AML, AMC, AMR); all can score, pass, dribble and cross.

- Have 1 all rounded MC whom I play in the support role.

- A standard defence; no-one's slow. Decent Fullbacks.

The other part being Roles in Attack

The main thing I've noticed is that the best pairing by far is a Deep-Lying Forward (Attack) with a Attacking Midfielder (Attack). Yet really confused with what the wide roles should be!?!? Surely with Inside Forwards I have no width??

Also anyone help me with philosphy??

[Techstep]

Well, for a while i seemed to solve my Advanced Forward issue by going from Control to counter to try and create more space for him to move into. This got him more involved and more goals. Starting the next season with the same tactic though has lead to inconsistency to say the least.

That Inconsistency lead me to a few changes which in turn seem to have made my team consistently awful. Really awful, creating nothing and conceding tons of chances to far inferior opposition. The most frustrating thing is i am at a complete loss as to why.

In my mind, when originally creating my tactic i imagined my team playing in a similar style to Real Madrid. Not needing to dominate possession, but extremely efficient with the possession they do have and lethal on the break.

So my Current setup is as follows:

I frankly would rather play 2 DM's but am unable to currently due to Henriksen inability to play DM and for some reason there being absolutely no suitable DLP's on the market.

The idea is that Eriksen would be in the hole spraying passes for the others to get on the end of and most of the scoring would be done by Jeferson and Munain.

I've toyed with setting Munain with support and adv playmaker attack roles to take advantage of his creativity and passing but need him moving into the box often so i'm not just left with Jeferson in there being marked out of the game. One of Munain's PPM's is "Comes Deep to Collect Ball" so i hope this will allow him to vary his play, allowing him to come deep and help create at times and also move into goal scoring positions at other times.

On the right wing i've often changed between attack and support, i have very good players over there who are in the traditional winger moulds. But the idea is they stretch the play and create space while supplying early crosses, through balls, and taking on players.

My main issue seems to be chances creation. Far too often my team create next to no chances in the final third, if the opposition is playing a good DM or two then i often give Eriksen a free role and disable him as the primary playmaker, but creating good goal scoring chances for Jeferson and Munain seems to be a real difficulty, despite often dropping deeper, playing wider and passing into space.

The other issue i have with counter attacking is sometimes giving up far too much possession, I've toyed with a control tactic with counter attacking enabled and though it gave me a comfortable amount of possession there were no real chances being created. Again i believe this may be due to there not being enough space for my players to run or play into due to a higher line than counter attacking.

Ideally, i want to be lethal on the break, but not have to rely on breaks as the only means of good chances. I want the final third to be direct and incisive if its possible at the time.

My striker is another issue, really he's a born goal scorer, his ability to bring others in isn't awful, but leaves a lot to be desired, and so setting him up is a constant headache. I don't really want him running the channels because i often find him too far from goal with very little on, but giving him "Normal" wide options makes him very easy to mark a lot of the time.

I feel i'm now at a position where i am fiddling far too much with things mid season and most of which have had a negative impact and so could probably do with going back to basics.

I guess where i am at here is seeing how other people would set up in the style i am seeking, i see the majority use short passing in their setup, but this is not necessarily something i want to encourage my team to do, i want them to have the option of picking the best pass, no matter the distance, hence why i have kept my passing at normal. Something i feel would help with this is high pressure, but i'm forever reluctant with this in most of the Football Managers as i feel players do not close down smartly enough.

Any Advice appreciated!

[dannyfc]

Anyone had any success with a narrow 4-2-3-1 variant? i.e. three AMs instead of AML - AM - AMR.

[vasilli07]

I'm really confused on what the best set-up for my team is!

Heres what I've been playing throughout the season; with good success:

I use Attacking at home against Weak teams.

I use Control at home against all other teams

I use Control away against weak teams.

I use Standard away against everyone else.

However I'm really stuck on 2 aspects of this formation...

Team Instructions, as you can see from my instructions everything is on default except for marking. I think zonal is a safe and assured type of marking as it keeps the shape. Everything else I'm too scared to change. My team is a top table team. So I should be positive against the majority of the league; except for the few (Zenit, CSKA, Anji and Spartack.).

I was wondering if you guys could help me! I want to utilize my strength with this tactic.

Strengths

- Big Strong Target Man and a good finisher (Kevin Kuranyi)

- A good Attacking 3 (AML, AMC, AMR); all can score, pass, dribble and cross.

- Have 1 all rounded MC whom I play in the support role.

- A standard defence; no-one's slow. Decent Fullbacks.

The other part being Roles in Attack

The main thing I've noticed is that the best pairing by far is a Deep-Lying Forward (Attack) with a Attacking Midfielder (Attack). Yet really confused with what the wide roles should be!?!? Surely with Inside Forwards I have no width??

Also anyone help me with philosphy??

Is Kevin Kuranyi good with his head? If yes, maybe you want a fullback and a winger on each side to be on crossing often so he has the chance to head it.

Example

DR - Fullback(att) and AML - Winger(sup or att) and DL - Fullback(sup) and AMR - IF(att) or vice versa

Use your best fullback with the highest crossing attribute on attack.

[vasilli07]

Any Advice appreciated!

I noticed you played 2 IFs and then your AF is not moving into the channels to drag the defenders away. It's easy to defend as everyone is attacking the same space. Your fullbacks are also not moving forward enough to give you width when your IFs are cutting inside. Maybe try changing your fullbacks to wingbacks or the duties to attack.

[thomit]

Anyone had any success with a narrow 4-2-3-1 variant? i.e. three AMs instead of AML - AM - AMR.

Yes. Post #237

I noticed Man City having great success with this formation (narrow or default 4231) in all of my saves. That's what tempted me to look into this formation myself. And with a few simple tweaks and the right players, I'm now having similar success with this formation.

[Techstep]

I noticed you played 2 IFs and then your AF is not moving into the channels to drag the defenders away. It's easy to defend as everyone is attacking the same space. Your fullbacks are also not moving forward enough to give you width when your IFs are cutting inside. Maybe try changing your fullbacks to wingbacks or the duties to attack.

I generally use a winger on the right hand side and an inside forward on the left. I've reverted back to my starting tactic and seem to be having some success. My current issue is getting my striker involved, he rarely seems involved in build up or goal scoring currently. This is a problem i've had before with the 4-2-3-1.

I can never seem to get an advanced forward functioning how i want, either he's too isolated or when there is the support there's no space for him to run into. Difficult balancing act i'm finding. Despite this i'm still scoring plenty and winning plenty, just feel i could be scoring more and making more use of him.

Currently setup as follows:

For the most part everything seems to be working ok, the DLP needs a bit of fiddling as he keeps getting caught on the ball. But as said, my striker is being wasted currently.

[yonko]

I generally use a winger on the right hand side and an inside forward on the left. I've reverted back to my starting tactic and seem to be having some success. My current issue is getting my striker involved, he rarely seems involved in build up or goal scoring currently. This is a problem i've had before with the 4-2-3-1.

I can never seem to get an advanced forward functioning how i want, either he's too isolated or when there is the support there's no space for him to run into. Difficult balancing act i'm finding. Despite this i'm still scoring plenty and winning plenty, just feel i could be scoring more and making more use of him.

Currently setup as follows:

For the most part everything seems to be working ok, the DLP needs a bit of fiddling as he keeps getting caught on the ball. But as said, my striker is being wasted currently.

What PPM's does your Striker have?

The DLP getting caught on the ball may be due to HUB, so set that as "no". Another reason could be that he doesn't have enough options to pass to. Maybe you should set your winger to support duty.

[themadsheep2001]

As Yonko says, its like the HUB option that's getting him caught on the ball, perhaps coupled with the shorter passing option.

There is a fair gap in mentality between the AP support and AF, and of course he has lots of forward runs.

This is subject to PPMs but I would consider a number of solutions:

Setting the AP to attack

Setting the AF to DLF/CF support

or combining the above ( currently what i do)

[Techstep]

What PPM's does your Striker have?

The DLP getting caught on the ball may be due to HUB, so set that as "no". Another reason could be that he doesn't have enough options to pass to. Maybe you should set your winger to support duty.

Funny you should mention about my winger as i did exactly that, which helped. I also dropped my DLP to Defend to try get him deeper and give him more space which seemed to help too. The only issue with my DLP is he has PPM of "Run into Channels" Though to be fair he doesn't do it too often and listens largely.

My striker has Beats offside trap and knocks ball past opponents.

Here is what i am dealing with:

As Yonko says, its like the HUB option that's getting him caught on the ball, perhaps coupled with the shorter passing option.

There is a fair gap in mentality between the AP support and AF, and of course he has lots of forward runs.

This is subject to PPMs but I would consider a number of solutions:

Setting the AP to attack

Setting the AF to DLF/CF support

or combining the above ( currently what i do)

I've toyed with having the AP as attack, i've not hard too many games to see results. My worry with this is that the AP will be too far from my CM's especially now they are both set to defend, and i won't have a nice organised midfield triangle.

I've also played with having him as a complete forward, i'm not sure if his PPM to beat the offside trap will make this more difficult. He does get involved more but gets on the end of chances far less.

I haven't tried him as a DLF, and i do have a backup striker who plays DLF, and is ideal in that role, and i already know that works far better in my current system, i'm just currently determined to get him working as an advanced forward! Though i may try him as a DLF and just see how he does despite him not fitting the mould in my mind.

Thanks for the replies guys!

[themadsheep2001]

This is the set up I'm using, also use control and counter. (I have 3 tactics set up, standard is the default setting for this one)

Only changes I made were to set every manually to Zonal Marking (I don't want man marking when I use the "hassle" shout), and manually set long shots to rarely.

[Luizinho]

What are you guys doing when playing away? especially against hard teams?

[Techstep]

What are you guys doing when playing away? especially against hard teams?

Generally i don't change. I play on the counter already and my team is strong enough to play their own game against most. If their a tough team i start with certain shouts and Opposition instructions depending on their formation and players.

Barcelona for example. I'd tight Mark who's most likely to be their playmaker, Xavi usually but he's retired on mine, I'd play Narrow if Messi and Sanchez were on the wings as i know they want to come inside and head for goal, i'd also show them both on their outside feet, and if David Villa is up top i shouldn't have to worry about crosses too much. I'd also drop deeper because they provide little aerial threat and will be looking to get in behind. I'd probably also close down their DM as a lot of moves will be starting with him.

That would be the sort of start i would have, then i generally watch big or tough games on Comprehensive and change what i need to on the fly.

But team settings i rarely change. Player settings i may drop a few duty's from attack to support to help retain possession better, or maybe my DLP to Defend from support to help out with the defending.

This is the set up I'm using, also use control and counter. (I have 3 tactics set up, standard is the default setting for this one)

Only changes I made were to set every manually to Zonal Marking (I don't want man marking when I use the "hassle" shout), and manually set long shots to rarely.

You have a very similar formation set up to me, bar a support winger on the right and advanced forward up top. I've managed to start getting my forward involved more, largely it seems by turning roaming off as i wanted him in and around the box more often. Still not perfect and 2 of the games i played him like that in were against Barca so hard to judge fully.

[Techstep]

An issue i am finding is the amount of management and changes i have to put into each and every game, no matter the quality of the opposition. Which contradicts what i said above but still.

Very rarely can i keep the tactic as it is with just a few shouts. Tiring frankly and i'm now starting look towards moving away from the 4-2-3-1. There are some teams i feel frankly due to my quality i should be causing trouble to with very little changes. It could be i'm just reading the situations wrong.

[Luizinho]

Generally i don't change. I play on the counter already and my team is strong enough to play their own game against most. If their a tough team i start with certain shouts and Opposition instructions depending on their formation and players.

Barcelona for example. I'd tight Mark who's most likely to be their playmaker, Xavi usually but he's retired on mine, I'd play Narrow if Messi and Sanchez were on the wings as i know they want to come inside and head for goal, i'd also show them both on their outside feet, and if David Villa is up top i shouldn't have to worry about crosses too much. I'd also drop deeper because they provide little aerial threat and will be looking to get in behind. I'd probably also close down their DM as a lot of moves will be starting with him.

That would be the sort of start i would have, then i generally watch big or tough games on Comprehensive and change what i need to on the fly.

But team settings i rarely change. Player settings i may drop a few duty's from attack to support to help retain possession better, or maybe my DLP to Defend from support to help out with the defending.

This is my new set-up; it's amazing at Home! but dreadful away! What would you recommend I changed for Away matches??

[Jad123]

It's hard to tell just from your screenshot but I would imagine with your roles, you will struggle to get the ball to your front three (wingers and ST). They all have attack duties with attacking roles, meaning they will have Often Run From Deep by default. What will happen away from home is you will get pinned back a little more (it's natural that the home side enjoys more of the ball as they have the crowd behind them and will be happier to relax with possession) and your front three will stay forward and make runs. When you win the ball back, your defenders will carry out it, perhaps look for your deep centre midfielders, but then that front free will be trying to penetrate the D-line while the rest of your side is fairly deep in your half.

It would be handy to have some highlights from your matches to see whether this theory is true. I am only going off what your roles and instructions are and what I imagine would happen. If it is what's happening, I would consider different solutions to the problem:

1. Playing the percentages by changing to Counter and making sure one of your midfielders carries the ball out to provide fast passes to your wingers.

2. Get more of a defensive contribution from your midfielders so you win the ball higher up the pitch away from home - this will prevent you from being pinned back but of course depends on the quality of your midfielders and the ability of your defenders to anticipate and then deal with balls that get through.

[Luizinho]

It's hard to tell just from your screenshot but I would imagine with your roles, you will struggle to get the ball to your front three (wingers and ST). They all have attack duties with attacking roles, meaning they will have Often Run From Deep by default. What will happen away from home is you will get pinned back a little more (it's natural that the home side enjoys more of the ball as they have the crowd behind them and will be happier to relax with possession) and your front three will stay forward and make runs. When you win the ball back, your defenders will carry out it, perhaps look for your deep centre midfielders, but then that front free will be trying to penetrate the D-line while the rest of your side is fairly deep in your half.

It would be handy to have some highlights from your matches to see whether this theory is true. I am only going off what your roles and instructions are and what I imagine would happen. If it is what's happening, I would consider different solutions to the problem:

1. Playing the percentages by changing to Counter and making sure one of your midfielders carries the ball out to provide fast passes to your wingers.

2. Get more of a defensive contribution from your midfielders so you win the ball higher up the pitch away from home - this will prevent you from being pinned back but of course depends on the quality of your midfielders and the ability of your defenders to anticipate and then deal with balls that get through.

Okay thanks for the response!

What I'm thinking is:

1) changing the roles of the wingers to Support?

2) Counter stratergy?

Any Shouts that I should be using?

[Britrock]

Anyone had any success with a narrow 4-2-3-1 variant? i.e. three AMs instead of AML - AM - AMR.

Playing with Porto I'm currently on a run where I've lost one game in about 15, with one or two draws. I realise I'm the best team in the country by far, but I won 4 Champions league games with it as well.

My formation (no screenshots as I'm not at home):

GK D

DR/DL - WB A

DCs - CD D

MCR - CM D

MCL - CM S

AMCL - IF A

AMC - Treq

AMCR - AM S

FC - CF S

Team settings:

Balanced

Control

Short passing

Press more

Zonal marking

Drill crosses

(Everything else is default)

The settings are obviously set up for a dominant, technical team. They're entirely set up to attack relentlessly, win the ball back quickly and use my technical superiority to dominate my opponents.

It took me quite a bit of tweaking to get the striker to interact with the team and not wander off into no man's land 10yds away from everyone else. The wing backs are vitally important as they give the width - I can obviously sacrifice a bit of defensive stability for attacking power as I'm so much better than everyone else in Portugal but I kept them on attack even in the Champs League.

[yonko]

Funny you should mention about my winger as i did exactly that, which helped. I also dropped my DLP to Defend to try get him deeper and give him more space which seemed to help too. The only issue with my DLP is he has PPM of "Run into Channels" Though to be fair he doesn't do it too often and listens largely.

My striker has Beats offside trap and knocks ball past opponents.

Here is what i am dealing with:

Your ST has excellent attributes for the role (AF), but I personally do not like his PPMs. I think you should have him unlearn both, starting with "likes to beat the offside trap" first. He has very good technique and balance to knock the ball. I would have him with "place shots" and "runs with the ball often". Put him on individual training role for Advanced Playmaker with Heavy intensity. That will increase his Decisions, Creativity, Passing and Teamwork (amongst other attributes), which will allow you the option to use him as Complete Forward if you want/need.

About your DLP, don't worry that he has "moves into channels", because that may help him actually.

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

Going to start a game with Bayern this evening and was wondering what people think about this for a starting set-up?

Overall strategy, I’ll be strongest team most games so have opted for Control. Also playing a pressing game to try to replicate real-lift FCB.

Hoping Schweinsteiger will stay in a deep role, providing a screen in front of the defence when Lahm pushes forward. Rafinha on support role should attack sometimes but also give defensive cover on other side of the pitch

Martinez is a Defensive Midfielder but I’d like him to get forward a bit to help in attack and break up any of their attacks high up the pitch.

Muller I’m looking to make the play in the forward stratas.

Robben and Ribery hopefully attacking through the channels between their DC and FB.

Which role should I give my Striker? I’m thinking an attack duty but not sure which specific role. Maybe Deep-Lying to open up some space for Robben/Ribery as both are IF(a).

[Luizinho]

This set-up allowed me to win my 1st League Title with my Russian Team!

Really confused on what duties i should be having on my fullbacks and wingers? My worry is that my AMR is to far way from DR????

[thomit]

As a rule of thumb: If your wingers are "wingers", your DR/L should be full backs, automatic. If your wingers are inside forwards (told to cut inside), your DL/R should be wing backs, automatic, and me I would also have them hug the line. This will of course depend on your players - if they don't have the skills necessary to be wing backs, you'd probably be better off limiting their forward runs, and particularly their rwb's.

I would be more worried about the distance between your midfield and your AMC. It doesn't look like your AM is set up to help much in defending - leaving just your CM's to defend in the midfield. Your midfield is frequently outnumbered, I presume. I would have the AMC on support.

[Luizinho]

As a rule of thumb: If your wingers are "wingers", your DR/L should be full backs, automatic. If your wingers are inside forwards (told to cut inside), your DL/R should be wing backs, automatic, and me I would also have them hug the line. This will of course depend on your players - if they don't have the skills necessary to be wing backs, you'd probably be better off limiting their forward runs, and particularly their rwb's.

I would be more worried about the distance between your midfield and your AMC. It doesn't look like your AM is set up to help much in defending - leaving just your CM's to defend in the midfield. Your midfield is frequently outnumbered, I presume. I would have the AMC on support.

I put him and the AMR on support for Away games; then switch the strategy to counter. Seems to work out okay, but not full-proof.

I see what you saying. My feeling towards it is; that If my AMC on Support; then it makes the Inside Forward's role almost redundant?... Maybe swapping the IF to Attack would make his movement more forward; and not run into the whole and cause congestion?

[yaşar]

How about passing ? default ? and advanced forward for mandzukic ?

Going to start a game with Bayern this evening and was wondering what people think about this for a starting set-up?

Overall strategy, I’ll be strongest team most games so have opted for Control. Also playing a pressing game to try to replicate real-lift FCB.

Hoping Schweinsteiger will stay in a deep role, providing a screen in front of the defence when Lahm pushes forward. Rafinha on support role should attack sometimes but also give defensive cover on other side of the pitch

Martinez is a Defensive Midfielder but I’d like him to get forward a bit to help in attack and break up any of their attacks high up the pitch.

Muller I’m looking to make the play in the forward stratas.

Robben and Ribery hopefully attacking through the channels between their DC and FB.

Which role should I give my Striker? I’m thinking an attack duty but not sure which specific role. Maybe Deep-Lying to open up some space for Robben/Ribery as both are IF(a).

[thomit]

@ Luizinho: That's what I would do ... and it's also the most usual setup of a 4231 like this, I think. AML/R =IF/attack, AMC = AM or AP support, Striker = DLF/support. You could also switch the duties of your CM's, so that the DLP would be on defend and the CM on support. Depends on the players. I'm using this setup in my "wide" 4231, except I play very fluid.

[Cadijk van Kaarhandel]

How about passing ? default ? and advanced forward for mandzukic ?

I'm going with Short passing for Bayern, and I'm thinking Defensive Fwd attack can help my team's shape for Mandzukic.

[Luizinho]

@ Luizinho: That's what I would do ... and it's also the most usual setup of a 4231 like this, I think. AML/R =IF/attack, AMC = AM or AP support, Striker = DLF/support. You could also switch the duties of your CM's, so that the DLP would be on defend and the CM on support. Depends on the players. I'm using this setup in my "wide" 4231, except I play very fluid.

Would having AMR/L as Advanced Playermakers, with overlapping fullbacks be an effective set-up? Thoughts??

[llama3]

I am building up a new system for my Arsenal side, based on their real life system with the playmaker on 1 flank, and winger on the other. A playmaker drifting in, feeding play back out to overlapping full back is a good system.

[Luizinho]

I am building up a new system for my Arsenal side, based on their real life system with the playmaker on 1 flank, and winger on the other. A playmaker drifting in, feeding play back out to overlapping full back is a good system.

What would you do with the AMC, as they may get in the way?

[llama3]

Advanced Playmaker Support - capable of dropping into space slightly deeper back, nothing wrong with the wide man coming inside and overloading the middle.

[Luizinho]

Advanced Playmaker Support - capable of dropping into space slightly deeper back, nothing wrong with the wide man coming inside and overloading the middle.

Okay; ideally I like to create a system that has lot of roaming and movement (inspired by Benfica). What are your thoughts about having all 3 AML/C/R on APs? With perhaps a Target-Man (A) to free up the space. Then the wing backs providing the width? Is it practical?

Edit: This would obviously be used for Home Games. (Can't see it working Away at Camp Nou )

[llama3]

Not enough off the ball movement - AP's are not set to roam, and the Target Man is not either. AP's only have mixed forward runs. On 1 flank yes, on both flanks and centre no. Could possibly try both flanks, and an inside forward down the middle to get in behind from deep.

[Luizinho]

Not enough off the ball movement - AP's are not set to roam, and the Target Man is not either. AP's only have mixed forward runs. On 1 flank yes, on both flanks and centre no. Could possibly try both flanks, and an inside forward down the middle to get in behind from deep.

Well I have 2 strikers. Benteke and Jean. 1s suited more to Target-Man/Complete Forward and the other to Poacher/Advanced Forward.

Maybe trying that?

I think I'm going to adopt 1 AP on one Flank and a Inside Forward on the other. With a AP(s) or AMC(s) in the hole. I think tactics that have variety seem to be the most effective.

What Philosophy do you adopt and why?