*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[Keyzer Soze]

@Da_Funk: Your are not forced to choose a individual training. If you want the players only train the general training regime you have choose from the team training. If you decide to choose a attribute training focus or a role training, this will take time from the general team training.

[Leon_fogo]

I see here a lot of reviews talking ME, for me the serious defect of FM 2013 is the slowness in processing passage of days. I hope it comes out a patch to fix this and not only with ME, has minor bugs reported in the forum that has to be adjusted as well.

Can anyone tell me if this patch is being worked on also an improvement for processing the fm?

[Leon_fogo]

Control Panel \ System and Security Options \ Power - you score? Here I always leave mine in balanced (recommended by HP), and have lower high. I will be placed on improving the treatment of high fm? And run the risk of damaging the computer into something? Inform anyone know?

[Neil Brock]

I do, but there is often no feedback from you. If you want us do your job for free at least make us feel appreciated.

Okay, often is an overstatement.

We don't have time to respond to every single thread that is posted I'm afraid. Bear in mind we're testing the game - what would you prefer, we spend all our available time testing the game and logging bugs or on the forums thanking people for uploading saves? Ideally yes we'd do both but it's not always possible. Thanks.

[alexcati]

SI will you change ME each year?

[KingBuzzo15]

I shall say this. The "problems" with FM are nowhere near as bad as the "problems" there was when Skyrim was released.

Also personally I think the processing time is quicker this time round.

[Neil Brock]

I see here a lot of reviews talking ME, for me the serious defect of FM 2013 is the slowness in processing passage of days. I hope it comes out a patch to fix this and not only with ME, has minor bugs reported in the forum that has to be adjusted as well.

Can anyone tell me if this patch is being worked on also an improvement for processing the fm?

As I've said to you a number of times in various threads, this IS something we're looking into. Thanks.

[Welshace]

I had a look at the training module and there's something in its design that I truly can't understand (do you know when you look at screen and scream: "WHY?").

Ok so, you can have individual training right? And you can select a role from the Tactic Creator or an individual attribute, right?

Well that's wrong not right.....eheheh.

First of all: let's assume I use classic/old tactic UI (so sliders), what's the meaning of that role selection in the training? Answer is: that's basically just a set of attributes, a selected/predetermined group of that. But then why am I forced to select that or ONE single attribute?

Isn't more logic for the user to simply have up to 5 attributes (or whatever max number you decide) to focus, and the more attributes I have the less effective/focus the individual training is?

Anyhow as a temporary fix or while you think about it, when you select the individual training for a player in the "team" training screen, it would be better if I know which attributes are linked to each role in that screen. If I miss something in the UI, sorry everyone.

Missing the point...

It has nothing to do with the TC or tactics area of the game.

Secondly, and put basically.. the point is that you have a choice.. you can train the player in a broad sense for a certain role (dmc, amc etc)

OR

You can focus directly on a certain area for the player to improve..

It's simple and it makes sense, much more sense than the last training module in fact.

[Leon_fogo]

As I've said to you a number of times in various threads, this IS something we're looking into. Thanks.

Ok. It is normal now use the FM over a gig of memory? And if I defrag my hd that do not do much time will it help improve performance? Like go in Control Panel \ System and Security Options \ Energy - Putting high, would improve processing fm? And run the risk of damaging the computer into something?

[rekluse]

Please stop using the 'it's your tactics' excuse, it's old and worn. Yes, there are some people who judge the ME as working or not working based on if they are winning or not, that is certainly not the case for the majority of players. I'm having a hugely successful FM13 career so far with Leeds, but the success is tainted by a ME that looks nothing like actual football. I would rather have a realistic simulation of football and be relegated than in the CL watching severely flawed defensive efforts and tika-taka style play even if using direct passing and a normal tempo.

With that said, I would assume the majority of players would prefer to wait an extra week or 2 for a more thoroughly tested update. I would be happy with an update that fixed the following major issues, if nothing else.

Lack of closing down and pressing by defenders regardless of instructions. This is not a tactical flaw, I can press more with defenders with high bravery and they still do not press correctly and tackle even less often. The statistics for tackles and interceptions are inline, however watching highlights shows the opposite which is where the confusion lies as the two are polar opposites.

Taxes, several threads detailing it more than I could as I haven't run into the problem myself but screenshots show an obvious game breaker for many.

Goalkeeping in general, which includes mid air saves with their feet, lack of awareness on loose balls, allowing 'he didn't mean it' crosses as often as they occur, and not properly blocking their near post and allowing a low percentage shot from the byline to score at an extremely high rate which has slightly decreased for me whether from the last update or just chance I'm not sure.

For me at least, those are the 3 worst bugs that if fixed would improve the game greatly.

[PaulC]

I truly feel thin match engine has the capability to be great. However the GK errors & defensive errors can ruin a good session.

Example as linked in the video. One of my midfielders decides to moonwalk away from danger during the defensive phase, this allows silva an open chance to receive the pass. Then to make it worse my CB & GK watch as he runs round them and slots the ball into the gaping goal. When i meat watch, they actually slow down as if he wasn't there.

Tactics dont stop a professional CB tackling or closing down a player through on goal in his own box, neither does it make a goalie stop reacting.

Please SI i have faith these issues will be fixed. I lost this game 3-2, granted it was a game i didn't expect to win. However imagine playing 5-6 seasons & building a team to get to the Champions league final/Deciding league match and an error like this decides the game. Replaying the game is hollow & you would feel cheated after all those seasons invested in the game. Like i said tactics dont turn pro's into vegetables

[video=youtube;ym_dWGAMtqU]

I'd certainly never look at that and say its down to tactics. Its clearly a bug. I assume its uploaded via the bugs forums btw?

[RTHerringbone]

Ok. It is normal now use the FM over a gig of memory? And if I defrag my hd that do not do much time will it help improve performance? Like go in Control Panel \ System and Security Options \ Energy - Putting high, would improve processing fm? And run the risk of damaging the computer into something?

Not wishing to sound rude, but you have opened threads about this, and repeatedly asked the same in this thread.

It's a shame that you have a problem and Neil Brock has confirmed that it is being looked at, so why not just wait until the impending fixes are released to see if it resolves your issue? It is not a widespread issue and only appears to affect particular hardware setups.

[PaulC]

Please stop using the 'it's your tactics' excuse, it's old and worn. Yes, there are some people who judge the ME as working or not working based on if they are winning or not, that is certainly not the case for the majority of players. I'm having a hugely successful FM13 career so far with Leeds, but the success is tainted by a ME that looks nothing like actual football. I would rather have a realistic simulation of football and be relegated than in the CL watching severely flawed defensive efforts and tika-taka style play even if using direct passing and a normal tempo.

With that said, I would assume the majority of players would prefer to wait an extra week or 2 for a more thoroughly tested update. I would be happy with an update that fixed the following major issues, if nothing else.

Lack of closing down and pressing by defenders regardless of instructions. This is not a tactical flaw, I can press more with defenders with high bravery and they still do not press correctly and tackle even less often. The statistics for tackles and interceptions are inline, however watching highlights shows the opposite which is where the confusion lies as the two are polar opposites.

Taxes, several threads detailing it more than I could as I haven't run into the problem myself but screenshots show an obvious game breaker for many.

Goalkeeping in general, which includes mid air saves with their feet, lack of awareness on loose balls, allowing 'he didn't mean it' crosses as often as they occur, and not properly blocking their near post and allowing a low percentage shot from the byline to score at an extremely high rate which has slightly decreased for me whether from the last update or just chance I'm not sure.

For me at least, those are the 3 worst bugs that if fixed would improve the game greatly.

I cant speak for the tax issue but I would 100% agree that defensive pressing ( I mean engagement of the ball player as opposed to specifically tackling ) and goalkeeper errors are up there on our priority list for the next update, along with general player reactions to the ball being diverted be it kick, save, deflection etc.

[Neil Brock]

Ok. It is normal now use the FM over a gig of memory? And if I defrag my hd that do not do much time will it help improve performance? Like go in Control Panel \ System and Security Options \ Energy - Putting high, would improve processing fm? And run the risk of damaging the computer into something?

I would say yes, FM will run over 1GB of memory. If you don't have much space on your HD then it may cause issues, but won't generally increase speed (only saving speed). I'd suggest for 'power saving modes' having it on maximum performance for best in-game performance. The only way this will damage your system is if you leave it on indefinitely doing high process tasks (the same with anything - you leave your PS3 on for 50 days straight I'd imagine it wouldn't enjoy it) or if you are running it not properly ventilated (you need to allow the vents air and that they're not blocked with dust or the like).

Quick processor, decent amount of RAM and a 64-bit OS will allow for quick processing times.

[markj_pr]

Thank you SI for rejuvenating the series with FM13. As a customer from the very beginning, the Amiga days, I felt at FM10 I had reached a bit of a plateau, struggling to adapt to the 3D aspect introduced a year earlier. It's still a big change even now for those who grew up pretending to be sick, to get a day off school to play the game through written commentary and flashing bars!

But with the promise of further evolvement I decided to download the FM13 demo and days later with pleasure I made a full purchase. You have done another exceptional job and I am very grateful for the teams hard word, enthusiasm and determination. Furthermore the greatest credit should be given for your dedication and passion to work tirelessly with your public, freely communicating and making tweaks and adjustments until February probably.

Some people on here don't realise what they've got. You know, if you're focused upon imperfections within the game, no doubt you will find some and have a much less enjoyable experience. But if you can appreciate the advancements, laugh and enjoy the PLAYING you will get so much more from it. By the way I'm s**t so far, I'm blunt up top and crap at the back, but hey that's football.

Thanks SI.

This always has been a football GAME and we all are aware of this. We could still enjoy with current condition of the game, but if there's too much complains about 3d ME or in-game bugs, there must be wrong things, right?

It is my observation over the years that a vocal minority complain following all releases. As stated imperfections can be found, but my point of contention is, have SI ever let us down? They are working hard for you right now to resolve any issues, what I would consider to be no more than teething problems in the grand scheme of the game as a whole.

In return, for their striving to make the best football management simulation possible and their efforts go beyond a level of customer service one could expect to receive from most industries. In some cases the nature of critique is over zealous, completely unwarranted and occasionally downright rude. I welcome some consideration of this before posting.

By the way I'm doing better. Training schedule and individual player tactics do count for a lot more this time around. Enjoy the process!

[asdpoo]

We don't have time to respond to every single thread that is posted I'm afraid. Bear in mind we're testing the game - what would you prefer, we spend all our available time testing the game and logging bugs or on the forums thanking people for uploading saves? Ideally yes we'd do both but it's not always possible. Thanks.

I don't think it is mutually exclusive. First, there aren't that many bugs per day (in the appropriate forums) that you can't answer them. You aren't really a small company. Second, if you do read the reports and log them, posting a standard "okay, logged" message would take just 5 seconds. I'm not asking you to get into a discussion, just acknowledge it has been logged or discarded.

That's why when I don't get any response I just assume nobody cares about my bug reports and stop wasting my time. Until I'm really outraged about something.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

How come 8 out of 9 opposition defending players decide to jump on my guy, leaving everybody else in the box unmarked? This isn't normal!

[video=youtube;tP5vkTM792M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP5vkTM792M

Is this about players going up to contest a header?

This reminds me of my second thought when I heard about the introduction of "collision avoidance". My first was that it is a major advancement and had me looking for other positive reasons that would force me to buy FM13. My second was, "what will happen to the players if this is still in the game":

That's 8 defenders and 1 attacker jumping into the same space to head the ball! (FM10)

So asdpoo, is that a sceenshot of what happens when loads of players go for the same ball in the air or something else?

Cheers

xxx

[asdpoo]

Yes, it is a challenge for corner header. They almost manage to get in one spot, then 7 end up on the ground. It's a video, quite amusing.

[Neil Brock]

I don't think it is mutually exclusive. First, there aren't that many bugs per day (in the appropriate forums) that you can't answer them. You aren't really a small company. Second, if you do read the reports and log them, posting a standard "okay, logged" message would take just 5 seconds. I'm not asking you to get into a discussion, just acknowledge it has been logged or discarded.

That's why when I don't get any response I just assume nobody cares about my bug reports and stop wasting my time. Until I'm really outraged about something.

Okay, I'll speak to the match engine QA team and try to get them to be a bit more thorough.

[sirgiorgio]

Yes, because that never happens in real life. The good teams simply win every single week.

Here, I seem to remember Barcelona having 90% possession, and 24 shots on goal, only to lose at Parkhead thanks to a, you guessed it, 'stupid mistake' by Xavi. Maybe the Parkhead match engine was broken too.

We are playing poker. I go all in with Ace-King, you call with two Aces. And repeat 100 times.

If you win all the times, the deck is stacked against me. If I win all the times, the deck is stacked against you. Ace-Ace should win 90% of the times.

I lose all the times, I guess poker it's not my game. Let try with Chess. I bought a great Chess simulation with a "realistic, massively improved" 3D engine.

First game, me vs PC: Hey, wait, he just moved its pawns in diagonal lines, like bishops! It must be a bug, let's report it to their forums.

Answer: "It's your tactics. If the AI moves its pawns like bishops, why don't you move your horses like towers?"

"But that's not chess anymore!"

"Oh, you wanted to play chess? Then buy a chessboard and play with your human friends".

[Keyzer Soze]

first chess analogy in this forum?

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Yes, it is a challenge for corner header. They almost manage to get in one spot, then 7 end up on the ground. It's a video, quite amusing.

What's more amusing is that I didn't even spot that it is a video!

So it's still in the game then. Something else I thought could have interesting consequences is when the players leave the pitch at full time, don't scuffles break out or maybe injuries caused by collisions as they all try to leave at once? (or has the way players leave the pitch changed since the olden days)

[Tubbs]

My view is that the game is very enjoyable but of course not perfect. I have started 3 different saves because I was struggling so badly to win, keep possession, take chances etc. But I was pretty sure that my tactics were to blame, yet I could not seem to sort it out. Now, however my Brighton team is playing well and winning and scoring, yet getting beaten too.

Patience is the key, you have to watch your team play and learn what it is that is causing the poor play. The real gem of advice that wwfan offered that has proved 100% spot-on, is that you need to link your team up, with players from each ‘line’ having the right duties set. Once I ‘got’ this then things improved no end.

As for the ME itself, I’ve nothing to say that’s not been said before by others on each side of the fence. But I’m convinced that it is already better than FM12. When your team does something right the ME shows it really well. I understand those who get annoyed by the errors displayed by the players, but a hell of a lot of goals IRL come from mistakes (some almost unbelievable). Yet the ME understandably does not have the ability to show every kind of footballing error (animation wise), it does its best though given the constraints.

My big hope for the game post next patch, is that we see more midfield battles as such, you know tackles, clashes, misplaced passes etc.

All said and done, I’m a happy bunny !

[Ginola79]

I truly feel thin match engine has the capability to be great. However the GK errors & defensive errors can ruin a good session.

Example as linked in the video. One of my midfielders decides to moonwalk away from danger during the defensive phase, this allows silva an open chance to receive the pass. Then to make it worse my CB & GK watch as he runs round them and slots the ball into the gaping goal. When i meat watch, they actually slow down as if he wasn't there.

Tactics dont stop a professional CB tackling or closing down a player through on goal in his own box, neither does it make a goalie stop reacting.

Please SI i have faith these issues will be fixed. I lost this game 3-2, granted it was a game i didn't expect to win. However imagine playing 5-6 seasons & building a team to get to the Champions league final/Deciding league match and an error like this decides the game. Replaying the game is hollow & you would feel cheated after all those seasons invested in the game. Like i said tactics dont turn pro's into vegetables

[video=youtube;ym_dWGAMtqU]

Agreed in everyway possible.

[Leon_fogo]

I would say yes, FM will run over 1GB of memory. If you don't have much space on your HD then it may cause issues, but won't generally increase speed (only saving speed). I'd suggest for 'power saving modes' having it on maximum performance for best in-game performance. The only way this will damage your system is if you leave it on indefinitely doing high process tasks (the same with anything - you leave your PS3 on for 50 days straight I'd imagine it wouldn't enjoy it) or if you are running it not properly ventilated (you need to allow the vents air and that they're not blocked with dust or the like).

Quick processor, decent amount of RAM and a 64-bit OS will allow for quick processing times.

Then defragment hd is valid but will not improve much. More options put on high energy is the most valid then for best desemepenho the game right?

I never thought about it, I threw the whole fm 2012 without leaving it balanced and found a good speed, the more I realized that all play in putting in high power options.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

Please stop using the 'it's your tactics' excuse, it's old and worn. Yes, there are some people who judge the ME as working or not working based on if they are winning or not, that is certainly not the case for the majority of players. I'm having a hugely successful FM13 career so far with Leeds, but the success is tainted by a ME that looks nothing like actual football. I would rather have a realistic simulation of football and be relegated than in the CL watching severely flawed defensive efforts and tika-taka style play even if using direct passing and a normal tempo.

With that said, I would assume the majority of players would prefer to wait an extra week or 2 for a more thoroughly tested update. I would be happy with an update that fixed the following major issues, if nothing else.

Lack of closing down and pressing by defenders regardless of instructions. This is not a tactical flaw, I can press more with defenders with high bravery and they still do not press correctly and tackle even less often. The statistics for tackles and interceptions are inline, however watching highlights shows the opposite which is where the confusion lies as the two are polar opposites.

Taxes, several threads detailing it more than I could as I haven't run into the problem myself but screenshots show an obvious game breaker for many.

Goalkeeping in general, which includes mid air saves with their feet, lack of awareness on loose balls, allowing 'he didn't mean it' crosses as often as they occur, and not properly blocking their near post and allowing a low percentage shot from the byline to score at an extremely high rate which has slightly decreased for me whether from the last update or just chance I'm not sure.

For me at least, those are the 3 worst bugs that if fixed would improve the game greatly.

It's your taka-tika.

(really, really sorry, couldn't help myself)

[sirgiorgio]

Patience is the key, you have to watch your team play and learn what it is that is causing the poor play. The real gem of advice that wwfan offered that has proved 100% spot-on, is that you need to link your team up, with players from each ‘line’ having the right duties set. Once I ‘got’ this then things improved no end.

How do you spell wwfan? I can't find it in my game, and I have a large database! My assistant is called John Cruff or something, and keeps telling me "we are fully in control" and "it's incredible we are losing". So it mustn't be my tactics, right?

[Tubbs]

How do you spell wwfan? I can't find it in my game, and I have a large database! My assistant is called John Cruff or something, and keeps telling me "we are fully in control" and "it's incredible we are losing". So it mustn't be my tactics, right?

wwfan, is a forum mod who just happens to be the "go to" man for tactics advice.

[rekluse]

It's your taka-tika.

(really, really sorry, couldn't help myself)

It's tiki-taka, unless it's a joke I don't get it?

[daylight]

I think it was a joke to do with "it's your tactics",he did not really pull it off though

[Herbert Fandel]

How do you spell wwfan? I can't find it in my game, and I have a large database! My assistant is called John Cruff or something, and keeps telling me "we are fully in control" and "it's incredible we are losing". So it mustn't be my tactics, right?

Being in control doesn't mean winning. Winning is done by scoring goals, which normally comes from having good chances. In the FM 13 engine it is very easy to have lots of shots on goal and almost all the possession by having the other team sit back in their box while you roll it around the outside, eventually firing off shots that have no chance of going in. Play like this may fool your assistant into making such comments, but will not win you the game. Many tactics in the game lead to such play. There are tactics that don't. Therefore, its your tactics. If you only rely on stats you will be as bad at FM as you would be in real life.

That said, SI could look into the large number of tactical variations that lead to such play, with a view to reducing it. Thankfully, based on their comments, it seems to me that they are, so I am happy for now.

[Tubbs]

I think it was a joke to do with "it's your tactics",he did not really pull it off though

Aah yes, now i can see the exclamation marks !! if not the actual joke

[Ginola79]

Okay, I'll speak to the match engine QA team and try to get them to be a bit more thorough.

Thank you - Like I said before I have faith that this game will be the best ever - it has the potential for sure.

[SFCMike]

Right now my team is oscillating between games where i dominate and win 6-0... and other games where for no reason the team can't score and loose the game by some stupid mistake from the defence or the goalkeeper.

At this point, i think my tactic is a good one, it as logic options and in truth i think the only reason i'm loosing some games is not because of the tactic... but because of some bugs/issues from the ME.

So, untill the new patch... no more tweaking in the tactic.

Sounds like you're losing because you have just one tactic and also "bad luck" which plays a part due to the randomness factor. It's not all ME faults remember the AI also are confined within the ME.

[Mintah]

Please stop using the 'it's your tactics' excuse, it's old and worn. Yes, there are some people who judge the ME as working or not working based on if they are winning or not, that is certainly not the case for the majority of players. I'm having a hugely successful FM13 career so far with Leeds, but the success is tainted by a ME that looks nothing like actual football. I would rather have a realistic simulation of football and be relegated than in the CL watching severely flawed defensive efforts and tika-taka style play even if using direct passing and a normal tempo.

With that said, I would assume the majority of players would prefer to wait an extra week or 2 for a more thoroughly tested update. I would be happy with an update that fixed the following major issues, if nothing else.

Lack of closing down and pressing by defenders regardless of instructions. This is not a tactical flaw, I can press more with defenders with high bravery and they still do not press correctly and tackle even less often. The statistics for tackles and interceptions are inline, however watching highlights shows the opposite which is where the confusion lies as the two are polar opposites.

Taxes, several threads detailing it more than I could as I haven't run into the problem myself but screenshots show an obvious game breaker for many.

Goalkeeping in general, which includes mid air saves with their feet, lack of awareness on loose balls, allowing 'he didn't mean it' crosses as often as they occur, and not properly blocking their near post and allowing a low percentage shot from the byline to score at an extremely high rate which has slightly decreased for me whether from the last update or just chance I'm not sure.

For me at least, those are the 3 worst bugs that if fixed would improve the game greatly.

I think much of the contention over the ME is down to such hyperbolic rhetoric. To say the bugs in the FM13 ME represent major issues vs. minor issues is a reasoned discussion that can be had and we can agree to disagree about. To say the the FM13 ME "looks nothing like actual football" is so outré and is so many standard deviations from my experience that I wouldn't even know how to have a reasonable discussion about it.

[Mintah]

Sounds like you're losing because you have just one tactic and also "bad luck" which plays a part due to the randomness factor. It's not all ME faults remember the AI also are confined within the ME.

I had this same thing happen to me. My best player was a skilled DM/MC whom I played as an advanced playmaker MC. After about half a season, I realized that he started playing inconsistently and consequently so did my team. Once I realized that, I began paying more attention and realized that in the games that he was playing badly, the AI was man-marking him with an MC who would follow him everywhere, even when he went short for corners and throw-ins. To counter this, I set him to swap with the DMC playing as a deep-laying playmaker, drawing his marker out and leaving holes in the AI formation for the rest of the team to exploit. I was initially frustrated but then ecstatic that the AI was intelligently reacting and adapting to my tactics.

[Teddster]

Here's a valuable piece of advice I've learnt recently. DON'T tinker with the tactics. Go to the Tactics Creator, create a basic balanced 4-4-2. Don't change ANY sliders for any of the team instructions or the player instructions. Leave everything as it is from the creator. Play a few games and see how you get on. I was on a 6/7 game losing streak. Deleted all my tactics. Created a bog-standard 4-4-2 and didn't touch anything. I went on a 6 game winning streak ending the season in 5th place with Parma.

Trust me. The tactics don't like to be tinkered with this year, and it seems the AI will punish you for telling your WM to push up more, or your DLP to be more direct. The second you change any of this, the AI will exploit and punish you, despite the oppositions managers ratings for tactical knowledge etc.

So what you are saying is that i should just play 442, dont do anything and the results will come. Gee wiz that sounds fun. Part of the game for me is to bring in my own tactic and players and get them to play the way i want. I know perfectly well that i cannot get Neil Mellor to play like Luiz Suarez, or Stoke (as they are today) to play like Barcelona. By bringing in the "bog standard 442" every team would play the same, meaning that Stoke and Barcelona would play the same. That doesnt really sound like a game i would like to play

[milnerpoint]

No what he is saying is start off basic, it doesnt have to be a 4-4-2, but people tend to jump in and make a very complicated tactic based on what they think football should be about, but it doesnt always work out. Start off with a basic tactic, make small changes and build it into something that works.

[fmFutbolManager]

As above.

So what you are saying is that i should just play 442, dont do anything and the results will come. Gee wiz that sounds fun. Part of the game for me is to bring in my own tactic and players and get them to play the way i want. I know perfectly well that i cannot get Neil Mellor to play like Luiz Suarez, or Stoke (as they are today) to play like Barcelona. By bringing in the "bog standard 442" every team would play the same, meaning that Stoke and Barcelona would play the same. That doesnt really sound like a game i would like to play

Sorry, I missed off the 'for example' when suggesting 4-4-2

Pick a formation that suits the players at your club, so your starting 11 are all in their natural positions. Leave all sliders for team and individual instructions. Only adjust slightly if needed, for example, playing 'control' against a weaker team, or 'counter' against stronger. Watch the basic formation and tactics over a couple of games and only make small changes where necessary.

I've learnt the hard way that coming in over the top with a made up formation, custom instructions for the team and players causes conflicts all over the place and with it, bad results.

All I'm saying is start very basic, and go from there.

[Mensell76]

I am one of those guys who does not enjoy the ME because of some of the issues many of use have posted (defending and closing down need finetuning, wingbacks are almost always only tracking, we conceed way to easily etc). I have posted my gripes in a non bashing fashion and have stayed away from most of the discussion in this thread.

After playing a full season in FM2013 I still very much stand behing my criticism on the current ME, however I also feel obliged to state that I am actually also sort of enthusiastic about the direction of the match simulation. To a large extent I actually agree with PaulC when he states this ME is rough around the edges but in fact is a lot more realistic compared to any previous version. Okay here we go on a positive note:

1. There are no ridicolous tactics working against the AI anymore. I dig that. I have read it by many of the defenders of this ME: once you start thinking logically about tactics and player roles you will be able to get your team to play the way you want and see it result in wins and solid football. FM 2013 has become perhaps a bit too difficult for us average games but the reward in terms of feeling good about yourself when succeeding is also higher. What we need to do is forget how we used to play previous versions and just think about how we would let our teams play in real life. Once I did that, the ME in FM 2013 started to make more sense to me. The only gripe I have is that in a 4-3-3 with inside forwards I can not seem to get a right footed AML with great dribbling skills to dribble inside (or even have him dribble a lot at all). this issue prevents me from playing the tactic that PSV plays IRL.

2. I love the fact that especially against stronger opponents we have to use the opposite instructions more. It just is not enough that you set your player to "close down all over the pitch", no you really have to tell him which player to close down. Once you do that, you will see better results if you use a logical tactic. Instructions on opponents have become more important and that again is realistic. The thing that is less realistic is the fact that weaker AI teams immediately also know how to exploit you not setting up "close down that winger and hard tackle him". Weaker AI teams should be able to try to play to their strength but just on occasion really be able to do it. And if our teams are really good we should also be able to rely on our own strength more often. So this is a question of finding the right balance I suppose.

3. FM2013 ME beats FM2012 on one aspect: AI teams now really also seem to be able to play football instead of being forced back most of the time (FM2012). Granted, they all seem to be capable of barcelone type of play (I have yet to see a team play physical long ball football) and their ratio of converting chances seems to be a bit better than ours but I love watching matches in which the opponent also tries to beat my team. Rough around the edges is the right word here. Fix AI teams all playing the same and their ability to exploit every weak area of our teams and this ME is better than ever. If this gets finetuned I think we will also see our teams play a little more consistenly. AI in the current ME seems to be so strong that it is able to stop our teams in its strength and exploit our weaknesses just a bit too quick. Breaking a clean sheet records in this current ME is virtually impossible.

4.Have you heard of the continental hangover, of teams playing in the Euroleague losing more points in the weekend after that European match? This really seems to be a fact in FM2013. Fitness plays a bigger role. If you do not have a deep enough squad European football can really put a damper on your title aspirations. I have seen quite a few games after my European matches in which my team just played without energy/will to win. True, the matches itself were horrible to look at but realistic indeed. What I like about this representation (with that I mean watching drab matches) is that it inluences me directly in how to set up my squad for next season and how I might select my players for Euroleague matches. In FM2012 you could easily play two entirely different squads in two different matches and still keep the winning going and the superb sort of football. In FM2013 this really is not the case anymore. Whether you like it or not, in this FM we as managers are more than ever forced to make decisions regarding squad policy and ambitions. Only a hand full of rich teams might be able to consistenly win most cups. My main gripe in this area is not really an ME issue but it seems morale/team talks have a bit too much influence on team performance. Once our teams lose a match or draw morale drops a whole lot and we can not seem to do a lot about it apart from finding a way to win again.

In conclusion when your tactical set up has been done right, this ME is in fact a lot more realistic than ever. Not every match is a good one anymore. You finally see some poor matches and we actually know why they were poor. This ME in its current state gives you a whole lot more of frustation: yes that is because of the irritating flaws in the ME (SI working on it thank god) but for a bigg part it is also due to my own decisions or due to bad luck.

Now everyone I am still very disappointed in the bugs in the ME. I still stand behing every issue I raised. And I will no play this game anymore until the patch has arrived. But I have now seen the direction in which SI is taking this game and I think it is the way to go. Once SI fixes the most pressing issues and hopefully also finds a better balance between strong AI and our chances of success, I am positive that this ME will be the way forward for future versions.

[PaulC]

Further update - this is where we are at so far:

Match v1313

-----------

- Refined position of d-line and also the lines in front of it when defending

- Brought wingers a bit deeper when defending

- Weaker players more likely to favour direct passes quicker

- Improved short pass accuracy slightly

- Tried to increase number of crosses slightly

- Fine tuned shot accuracy

- Fixed some minor player on ball decision bugs

- Improved trajectory of medium length kicks like free kick shots and corners

- Made players better at offering out ball to team mate

- Tried to improve player reactions to deflected balls or tackles

- Made players more willing to slide tackle when opportunity and need arises

- Fixed some unnatural save directions from keepers

- Fixed keepers trying to save ball at wrong point when its heading for post or bar

- Made players slightly better at turning body while on the run

- Made strongest player stand ground when 2 players collide while going for a header

- Made goal celebration paths a little bit more varied

- Fixed comms saying ball well wide when not really that far wide

- Some ball physics collision tweaks

- Some team talk fixes

Match v1314

-----------

- Further tuned team shape and d-line position when defending

- AM strata now comes back to defend unless set to "all out attack"

- Made d-line shift up when opposing player with ball is successfully pressed

- Made d-line shift back quicker when attacking player is running with pace at them with the ball

- Some tweaks to marking of opponents in own area

- Fixed defenders shifting across as full back engages winger in last third causing bad shape

- Tried to reduce instances of players heading ball they could control a split second later

- Some minor fixes relating to player interception of ball

- Some refinements to off ball movement around ball player

- Some general tweaks to pass choice and on ball decision making

- Some more minor keeper save fixes

- Fixed some instances of woodwork hit not being registered

- Fixed player not waiting to getup before running off to celebrate after scoring a diving header

Match v1315

-----------

- Fixed ultra rare crash when player shoots from close range

- Further small refinements to on ball decisions and pass choice

- Improved direct free kick trajectory slightly

- Improved crossing aim AI

- Fine tuned pass and shot accuracy slightly

- Improved player reaction and awareness of ball generally

- Improved defensive tracking of player running with ball

- Slight reduction of player reaction time to fast curling balls

- Slight reduction of player reaction time when ball a long way away from them especially if not facing it

- Improved defender lateral positioning when defending wide ball

- Fixed winger not staying wide when asked to hug touchline and ball on his side in advanced position

- Goalkeeper should narrow the angle better when a play is running at him at speed

- Goalkeepers should try to move under the ball path even if they think they can't reach it.

- Fixed a bug where the keeper fails to catch a ball if it has just hit the crossbar/post

- Fixed keeper turning ball over bar described as turning it round post

- Fixed some player collision avoidance issues

- Fixed a bug where an offside is given instead of a free kick

for a foul

- Stop a rare teleport bug with goal celebrations

- Fixed animation issues whilst player argues with ref

- Fixed small anomaly in team selection AI

Btw the main reason we cant release this yet is that we are quite low on shots and goals - too many defensive fixes Hopefully we can get it back to a reasonable number on each count in time to release next week.

[fmFutbolManager]

Further update - this is where we are at so far:

Match v1314

-----------

- Further tuned team shape and d-line position when defending

- AM strata now comes back to defend unless set to "all out attack"

- Made d-line shift up when opposing player with ball is successfully pressed

- Made d-line shift back quicker when attacking player is running with pace at them with the ball

- Some tweaks to marking of opponents in own area

- Fixed defenders shifting across as full back engages winger in last third causing bad shape

- Tried to reduce instances of players heading ball they could control a split second later

- Some minor fixes relating to player interception of ball

- Some refinements to off ball movement around ball player

- Some general tweaks to pass choice and on ball decision making

- Some more minor keeper save fixes

- Fixed some instances of woodwork hit not being registered

- Fixed player not waiting to getup before running off to celebrate after scoring a diving header

Match v1315

-----------

- Fixed ultra rare crash when player shoots from close range

- Further small refinements to on ball decisions and pass choice

- Improved direct free kick trajectory slightly

- Improved crossing aim AI

- Fine tuned pass and shot accuracy slightly

- Improved player reaction and awareness of ball generally

- Improved defensive tracking of player running with ball

- Slight reduction of player reaction time to fast curling balls

- Slight reduction of player reaction time when ball a long way away from them especially if not facing it

- Improved defender lateral positioning when defending wide ball

- Fixed winger not staying wide when asked to hug touchline and ball on his side in advanced position

- Goalkeeper should narrow the angle better when a play is running at him at speed

- Goalkeepers should try to move under the ball path even if they think they can't reach it.

- Fixed a bug where the keeper fails to catch a ball if it has just hit the crossbar/post

- Fixed keeper turning ball over bar described as turning it round post

- Fixed some player collision avoidance issues

- Fixed a bug where an offside is given instead of a free kick

for a foul

- Stop a rare teleport bug with goal celebrations

- Fixed animation issues whilst player argues with ref

- Fixed small anomaly in team selection AI

Btw the main reason we cant release this yet is that we are quite low on shots and goals - too many defensive fixes Hopefully we can get it back to a reasonable number on each count in time to release next week.

Excellent work, Paul. Thank you.

Oh and for the record. I'll take it now. I'm conceding 30 shots a game...

[RTHerringbone]

Fix list looks very promising, particularly pleased with the second one in v1314 as I play 4-2-3-1.

[Herbert Fandel]

Glad its not released yet, I love goals!

[Leon_fogo]

Further update - this is where we are at so far:

Match v1313

-----------

- Refined position of d-line and also the lines in front of it when defending

- Brought wingers a bit deeper when defending

- Weaker players more likely to favour direct passes quicker

- Improved short pass accuracy slightly

- Tried to increase number of crosses slightly

- Fine tuned shot accuracy

- Fixed some minor player on ball decision bugs

- Improved trajectory of medium length kicks like free kick shots and corners

- Made players better at offering out ball to team mate

- Tried to improve player reactions to deflected balls or tackles

- Made players more willing to slide tackle when opportunity and need arises

- Fixed some unnatural save directions from keepers

- Fixed keepers trying to save ball at wrong point when its heading for post or bar

- Made players slightly better at turning body while on the run

- Made strongest player stand ground when 2 players collide while going for a header

- Made goal celebration paths a little bit more varied

- Fixed comms saying ball well wide when not really that far wide

- Some ball physics collision tweaks

- Some team talk fixes

Match v1314

-----------

- Further tuned team shape and d-line position when defending

- AM strata now comes back to defend unless set to "all out attack"

- Made d-line shift up when opposing player with ball is successfully pressed

- Made d-line shift back quicker when attacking player is running with pace at them with the ball

- Some tweaks to marking of opponents in own area

- Fixed defenders shifting across as full back engages winger in last third causing bad shape

- Tried to reduce instances of players heading ball they could control a split second later

- Some minor fixes relating to player interception of ball

- Some refinements to off ball movement around ball player

- Some general tweaks to pass choice and on ball decision making

- Some more minor keeper save fixes

- Fixed some instances of woodwork hit not being registered

- Fixed player not waiting to getup before running off to celebrate after scoring a diving header

Match v1315

-----------

- Fixed ultra rare crash when player shoots from close range

- Further small refinements to on ball decisions and pass choice

- Improved direct free kick trajectory slightly

- Improved crossing aim AI

- Fine tuned pass and shot accuracy slightly

- Improved player reaction and awareness of ball generally

- Improved defensive tracking of player running with ball

- Slight reduction of player reaction time to fast curling balls

- Slight reduction of player reaction time when ball a long way away from them especially if not facing it

- Improved defender lateral positioning when defending wide ball

- Fixed winger not staying wide when asked to hug touchline and ball on his side in advanced position

- Goalkeeper should narrow the angle better when a play is running at him at speed

- Goalkeepers should try to move under the ball path even if they think they can't reach it.

- Fixed a bug where the keeper fails to catch a ball if it has just hit the crossbar/post

- Fixed keeper turning ball over bar described as turning it round post

- Fixed some player collision avoidance issues

- Fixed a bug where an offside is given instead of a free kick

for a foul

- Stop a rare teleport bug with goal celebrations

- Fixed animation issues whilst player argues with ref

- Fixed small anomaly in team selection AI

Btw the main reason we cant release this yet is that we are quite low on shots and goals - too many defensive fixes Hopefully we can get it back to a reasonable number on each count in time to release next week.

Great work, the ME will be perfect!

And the other bugs that are being reported on the forum, small problems, a patch is also being produced?

[Herbert Fandel]

Great work, the ME will be perfect!

And the other bugs that are being reported on the forum, small problems, a patch is also being produced?

Did you have to quote the whole thing? They will be working on the other items yes, but this is an ME patch. You have been told plenty of times they are looking into your processing problem, which it should be noted not everyone suffers from

[Leon_fogo]

Did you have to quote the whole thing? They will be working on the other items yes, but this is an ME patch. You have been told plenty of times they are looking into your processing problem, which it should be noted not everyone suffers from

Yes my friend, just asked to know, know that the next patch is for ME. I think cool, as far the organization of SI, in my opinion the game is very good note 9, one thing that has pleased me is the speed for the computer that I have and compared to FM 2012.

[Ginola79]

Further update - this is where we are at so far:

Match v1313

-----------

- Refined position of d-line and also the lines in front of it when defending

- Brought wingers a bit deeper when defending

- Weaker players more likely to favour direct passes quicker

- Improved short pass accuracy slightly

- Tried to increase number of crosses slightly

- Fine tuned shot accuracy

- Fixed some minor player on ball decision bugs

- Improved trajectory of medium length kicks like free kick shots and corners

- Made players better at offering out ball to team mate

- Tried to improve player reactions to deflected balls or tackles

- Made players more willing to slide tackle when opportunity and need arises

- Fixed some unnatural save directions from keepers

- Fixed keepers trying to save ball at wrong point when its heading for post or bar

- Made players slightly better at turning body while on the run

- Made strongest player stand ground when 2 players collide while going for a header

- Made goal celebration paths a little bit more varied

- Fixed comms saying ball well wide when not really that far wide

- Some ball physics collision tweaks

- Some team talk fixes

Match v1314

-----------

- Further tuned team shape and d-line position when defending

- AM strata now comes back to defend unless set to "all out attack"

- Made d-line shift up when opposing player with ball is successfully pressed

- Made d-line shift back quicker when attacking player is running with pace at them with the ball

- Some tweaks to marking of opponents in own area

- Fixed defenders shifting across as full back engages winger in last third causing bad shape

- Tried to reduce instances of players heading ball they could control a split second later

- Some minor fixes relating to player interception of ball

- Some refinements to off ball movement around ball player

- Some general tweaks to pass choice and on ball decision making

- Some more minor keeper save fixes

- Fixed some instances of woodwork hit not being registered

- Fixed player not waiting to getup before running off to celebrate after scoring a diving header

Match v1315

-----------

- Fixed ultra rare crash when player shoots from close range

- Further small refinements to on ball decisions and pass choice

- Improved direct free kick trajectory slightly

- Improved crossing aim AI

- Fine tuned pass and shot accuracy slightly

- Improved player reaction and awareness of ball generally

- Improved defensive tracking of player running with ball

- Slight reduction of player reaction time to fast curling balls

- Slight reduction of player reaction time when ball a long way away from them especially if not facing it

- Improved defender lateral positioning when defending wide ball

- Fixed winger not staying wide when asked to hug touchline and ball on his side in advanced position

- Goalkeeper should narrow the angle better when a play is running at him at speed

- Goalkeepers should try to move under the ball path even if they think they can't reach it.

- Fixed a bug where the keeper fails to catch a ball if it has just hit the crossbar/post

- Fixed keeper turning ball over bar described as turning it round post

- Fixed some player collision avoidance issues

- Fixed a bug where an offside is given instead of a free kick

for a foul

- Stop a rare teleport bug with goal celebrations

- Fixed animation issues whilst player argues with ref

- Fixed small anomaly in team selection AI

Btw the main reason we cant release this yet is that we are quite low on shots and goals - too many defensive fixes Hopefully we can get it back to a reasonable number on each count in time to release next week.

Seems very very promising - good job! I know its gonna be hard to tweak like we saw some other years - suddenly defenders went from being pretty crappy to gods - so take your time like you do.

[milnerpoint]

Yup dont rush it! I have just managed to get my Aberdeen team scoring enough goals!

[MacZidane]

Lack of closing down and pressing by defenders regardless of instructions. This is not a tactical flaw, I can press more with defenders with high bravery and they still do not press correctly and tackle even less often. The statistics for tackles and interceptions are inline, however watching highlights shows the opposite.

Do you watch the full match?