*Official* Football Manager 2013 Constructive non-ME Feedback Thread

[luka_zg]

Anybody actally saw some clubs going bankrupt due to the tax bug? I'm in 4th season and it's all good. My club balance in chelsea right now is 30 mil in the red and on club info screen it says..financial status: rich.

Also ManUtd spending like lunatics..City also..

[hluraven]

Anybody actally saw some clubs going bankrupt due to the tax bug? I'm in 4th season and it's all good. My club balance in chelsea right now is 30 mil in the red and on club info screen it says..financial status: rich.

Also ManUtd spending like lunatics..City also..

No-one should go bankrupt because of it (human or AI), the bug is that some (not all) profit is double taxed. If you aren't making profits, it shouldn't affect anything.

[Herbert Fandel]

Anybody actally saw some clubs going bankrupt due to the tax bug? I'm in 4th season and it's all good. My club balance in chelsea right now is 30 mil in the red and on club info screen it says..financial status: rich.

Also ManUtd spending like lunatics..City also..

To paraphrase slightly, something I have asked before but haven't really had wide answers on.

Has anybody been sacked from their job due to poor finances? It used to happen in FM but it seems to me recently it is impossible. I would love for someone to correct me

[Häynted]

There's seems to be something fishy with the international results.

World Cup 2014 top four: Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark.

Ok, Belgium has some really good players coming in, but is that seriously going to take them to win the cup...

Euros 2016 top four: WALES (yes, you read correct and they did beat Spain 3-0 in the quarter-finals!), Turkey, FINLAND (they have never even qualified to a major tournament irl), Croatia.

Surely strange things happend in real-life international football as well (case-Greece in 2004), but only 1/8 of those top four teams is one you would actually expect to be up there.

[Fancy Gaffot]

What's happened to the option of sending a player who failed to obtain a work permit on a loan to an affiliated club, in order to gain EU citizenship? I've never played british clubs much, but I distinctively remember that being possible; in FM13 every time I try to sign a talented, yet unknown youth from somewhere in America etc. for Celtic, the transfer is promptly cancelled after the work permit appeal failure. Is that an intended change?

Yep I can't sign young brazilians now at all.

[hluraven]

I can cope with Belgium, Croatia, Brazil, Turkey and Croatia again being plausible, and Denmark isn't completely beyond possibility with a lot of luck, but Wales and Finland is extremely dubious. As a one-off then maybe, but if that is replicated in other games then it is a problem.

[Herbert Fandel]

Yep I can't sign young brazilians now at all.

Whit? If you have the right feeder club you can. It has already been shown that Torwin (understandably) misunderstood the value of his hungarian feeder team.

[THOG]

There's seems to be something fishy with the international results.

World Cup 2014 top four: Belgium, Brazil, Croatia, Denmark.

Ok, Belgium has some really good players coming in, but is that seriously going to take them to win the cup...

Euros 2016 top four: WALES (yes, you read correct and they did beat Spain 3-0 in the quarter-finals!), Turkey, FINLAND (they have never even qualified to a major tournament irl), Croatia.

Surely strange things happend in real-life international football as well (case-Greece in 2004), but only 1/8 of those top four teams is one you would actually expect to be up there.

If you simulate the tournaments on full detail, you should get more realistic results.

[rekluse]

Anybody actally saw some clubs going bankrupt due to the tax bug? I'm in 4th season and it's all good. My club balance in chelsea right now is 30 mil in the red and on club info screen it says..financial status: rich.

Also ManUtd spending like lunatics..City also..

Im in my 4th season as well, with Leeds, and I haven't seen the tax bug myself yet but also wondered if top teams would begin to go bankrupt. It seems to be people playing larger teams that are experiencing this, has anyone from a mid table or lower team? Just to check on finances I took over a couple teams.

Man Utd made a profit of 38m, paid 42m in taxes and the majority of income came from sponsorship deals which were 124m and largest expenditure was paying loan debt which they paid 112m last season.

Chelsea had their worst season yet, finishing in 9th, made a profit of 25m, paid 30m in taxes, only made 34m in sponsorship and paid 4m in loan debt.

So it seems to only effect players if my game is any indication, so far at least. If anyone should go bankrupt it will be Chelsea this season having such high salaries and not playing in any European competition.

[Häynted]

If you simulate the tournaments on full detail, you should get more realistic results.

What do you mean by full detail?

Ah, found it. Both had full details on.

[Marko12]

This may have had been said before but, players look dumb sometimes!

Like derp herp moment.

Talk about common sense really. For example, the player closest to the ball didn't race to the ball and try to win possession, instead they just stood still waiting for 15 yards away opponent to come and steal his ball! Happens to me a lot after attacking corner resulting in many goals conceded by counter attack!

[Ranquelme]

would the ME update come with the update for other issues?

[Ollep7]

Seriously, I'm just venting here. I HATE this broken version of FM. It has great potential but the frustration is mounting high for me and the unpleasant situations now outweight the fun I get.

[Keyzer Soze]

Seriously, I'm just venting here. I HATE this broken version of FM. It has great potential but the frustration is mounting high for me and the unpleasant situations now outweight the fun I get.

Care to elaborate? Perhaps we can help you with your issues!

[rekluse]

would the ME update come with the update for other issues?

I would imagine the update would include everything PaulC mentioned in the same update. I'm curious though as to how the will handle the tax bug, if that's something that requires a database change that would force everyone to create new games if they wish to avoid the bug.

[iknowniknuk]

Im a few seasons in and have tweaked my tactics so that they are succesfull, it does take time and a lot of games.

A few things menitoned in the update will make my tactic even better. Im looking forward to the release, hopefully i wont need to reverse tweak some areas of my tactic.

[milnerpoint]

would the ME update come with the update for other issues?

Maybes aye, maybes no, we will only find out when they release the update.

[oguzcan11]

Hey. Just a few words about my season. Just got a sack from the club I managed, Red Star Belgrade from Serbia. Never before have I got sacked from Red Star, and I've been playing FM for a long time. The results I had definitely earned me a sack without a doubt, but the annoying thing is I don't understand why I lost some of the matches when I did nothing wrong. I'll post a few photos and give my feedback why I think something's wrong with the game's reality, results, match engine.

First of all, this interesting photo:

It shows that my first team not only lost to reserves, but it had 40(14) shots on goal as opposed to opponents 11(5). Even though my assman was in control of the match, this was just wrong.

This trend continued throughout the season, a bit tuned down, but in most matches that I lost or drew I had similar stats on my side, usually with over 20 shots and opponent's 5-6.

Here is the screen of my fixtures:

The last game was against Novi Pazar, after that I got fired. The first game on the screen was against Radnicki Svilajnac, a team that in real life I didn't know it existed. A team from a village basically. They beat me 2-1 and kicked me out of the cup in the first round. A mix of my first and second choice players were given a chance that time, and they lost. Their attributes must be 10 times better that the opponent's. The tactic that I played throughout the season was either 4-5-1 or 4-4-2, predifined tactics, with not much changes. Control or Standard, Zonal marking and usually get the ball forward, work the ball into box and exploit the flanks shouts. So my tactics is not weird, it's as regular as it can get, I have a team 10 times better than the opponent and I lost?

Even if I put all my players on the side of the pitch in tactics I should've won that game. See, in Serbia Red Star and Partizan are the best teams, they win easily most of their games. So if I take Red Star I expect an easy challenge, because if the game had levels easy challenges would be managing Red Star, Dinamo Zagreb, Barcelona, Olympiakos etc. Medium challenges are Aston Villa, Herenven, Betis etc. Hard challenges are lower leagues. Don't take me wrong, I don't expect to win EVERY game even though that's almost happening in real life, but I surely don't expect to lose constantly to idiots with my regular team and regular practiced tactics. At home, away, you name it, the game doesn't make the difference where you play a match. I would love to have to earn most of my wins, especially against teams that are in real life tough to beat at home or so, and lose my fair share of matches, but not like this! Now randomly and not without any consistency and healthy reason.

Now, here go the final standings before I got sacked:

Not only I had a bad position and stats (8-4-5), but my biggest rival Partizan, who in real life had only 1 lost game this year and who are Serbian champions for the last 5 year, they also had an awful score of 6-3-8, a lot of times losing 0-3 at home against suckers. Notice the team called Sloboda, an average middle table team in RL, they had 55 scored goals which is an average of 3,2 per game, and they had like 10 matches in which they won 6-0, 5-1, usually with one of the players scoring 4 goals in a match.

Also you can notice no team had less than 1 goal conceded per match. In my 17 games I conceded 17 goals. Whatever I did, whatever I changed I would still concede a goal. Another strange thing that annoyed me was the number of yellow and red cards that I got every match, even though none of my players had hard tackling instruction set. I'm sorry I didn't post those stats as well, but trust my word it was just too much, and too annoying. The penalties...not even gonna go there... enough has already been said on that topic.

Oh, and did I mention that I was kicked out of Europa League qualifications by a Finnish team called JJK? Beat them 2-1 away, and lost 4-1 at home.

So the bottom line is... I took the team that's always been quite easy to manage, because frankly in real life there are many leagues (especially in Eastern Europe) that have 1 or 2 giants in the sea of awful teams, and win the title every year or so. I played the standard tactic, I've been playing manager games for the last 15 years so I know that I can't make radical tactical mistakes and I know that can't be a reason for a failure. So why do I lose? For me there isn't other explanation than the flawed match engine, or the wrong calculations or whatever you call it. I know the problem is not in me, it's in the game. I played 2 seasons on beta version as well, and I had similarly awful results with Fiorentina and Tottenham. Similar things happened to me, similar goals, I played different tactics in different saves, tried everything, put my defenders back, decreased their closing down and mentality...NOTHING changes! I still concede stupid goals, I still get opponent's players running between my defence and scoring each and every 1 on 1 chance they get.

I would like an opinion from a SI member, but this also goes for all those who fiercly defend the game on these forums and try to tell everyone that they are doing something wrong. In no world at this current state FM 13 would be considered a realistic football simulation. I hope you fix it, and fix it good, because I won't be playing it until I see some touch of reality. Now, it's just utter nonsense.

I want to give full support to this post. The most important things, ideas and thoughts are here. The game isn't realistic anymore.

How can Galatasaray win the CLeague or Fenerbahce win UEFA Cup?

I read it above, Wales can win the Euros????

I hope the next patch will be a solution about this. Beyond this, the ME, taxes etc. are in the background. We are playing FM not FIFA.

[Ranquelme]

I would imagine the update would include everything PaulC mentioned in the same update. I'm curious though as to how the will handle the tax bug, if that's something that requires a database change that would force everyone to create new games if they wish to avoid the bug.

Yeah that was what I was wondering, if you've already lost millions during your save I don't know how they can fix that

[milnerpoint]

It wont really matter in the long run, you will have only lost out on a small amount in the bigger picture.

[Herbert Fandel]

I want to give full support to this post. The most important things, ideas and thoughts are here. The game isn't realistic anymore.

I totally disagree, there are some users who have gone into great detail about why they consider the ME to be unrealistic, even when they are winning. Sometimes such comments make very valid points.

I have read through this lad/lady's post a few times and can't see any identifiable message other than 'I am losing'

With regard to his idea of challenges, why are Barcelona an easy challenge? You have to compete with Real Madrid and any failure will see you sacked. Why are 'lower leagues' a harder challenge? sometimes the boards down there are just happy you keep the club in existence. The game isn't as black and white as he thinks.

And whilst I am 100% not saying his opinion is worthless, I am 100% disagreeing with your review of his post. If people expect SI to make changes they need to say more than that they are losing games.

Yes he said he tried little things with his tactics, but remember too much tinkering is a bad thing, as is just trying random tactics for the sake of it.

If his review of the game was right, every player would be failing. This is 100% not the case.

[oguzcan11]

I totally disagree, there are some users who have gone into great detail about why they consider the ME to be unrealistic, even when they are winning. Sometimes such comments make very valid points.

I have read through this lad/lady's post a few times and can't see any identifiable message other than 'I am losing'

With regard to his idea of challenges, why are Barcelona an easy challenge? You have to compete with Real Madrid and any failure will see you sacked. Why are 'lower leagues' a harder challenge? sometimes the boards down there are just happy you keep the club in existence. The game isn't as black and white as he thinks.

And whilst I am 100% not saying his opinion is worthless, I am 100% disagreeing with your review of his post. If people expect SI to make changes they need to say more than that they are losing games.

Yes he said he tried little things with his tactics, but remember too much tinkering is a bad thing, as is just trying random tactics for the sake of it.

If his review of the game was right, every player would be failing. This is 100% not the case.

Yes, you could be right but what am i talking about is not only the failure of managing clubs. I got Fenerbahce, i was pretty successful, but in the other hand, Gala won CL and Chelsea, Barcelona, RMadrid, Manu, Arsenal, Marseille, Lyon, eliminated before the Semi Finals. The top four was, GALA!!, Dortmund, Bayern Munich and GLADBACH!!!.

We could be succesfull some way, but when Galatasaray reaches to the final winning against Milan in aggregate 5-2, against Valencia 5-0, against Bayern 4-1 and in the final Dortmund 4-0, i'm feeling this game is not realistic. btw, i'm not tinkering, all i'm saying is what is happened in my game.

[iknowniknuk]

Yes, you could be right but what am i talking about is not only the failure of managing clubs. I got Fenerbahce, i was pretty successful, but in the other hand, Gala won CL and Chelsea, Barcelona, RMadrid, Manu, Arsenal, Marseille, Lyon, eliminated before the Semi Finals. The top four was, GALA!!, Dortmund, Bayern Munich and GLADBACH!!!.

We could be succesfull some way, but when Galatasaray reaches to the final winning against Milan in aggregate 5-2, against Valencia 5-0, against Bayern 4-1 and in the final Dortmund 4-0, i'm feeling this game is not realistic. btw, i'm not tinkering, all i'm saying is what is happened in my game.

But being in Turkey wouldnt you be happy that a turkish club won the champions league? Or does your rivalry with them extend to this digital format?

Any team on its day can win, if these smaller teams keep wining the comp then raise the issue. In my save the three winners were Man utd, Man city and Barca, about right i think....

[zlatan_messi]

Yes, you could be right but what am i talking about is not only the failure of managing clubs. I got Fenerbahce, i was pretty successful, but in the other hand, Gala won CL and Chelsea, Barcelona, RMadrid, Manu, Arsenal, Marseille, Lyon, eliminated before the Semi Finals. The top four was, GALA!!, Dortmund, Bayern Munich and GLADBACH!!!.

We could be succesfull some way, but when Galatasaray reaches to the final winning against Milan in aggregate 5-2, against Valencia 5-0, against Bayern 4-1 and in the final Dortmund 4-0, i'm feeling this game is not realistic. btw, i'm not tinkering, all i'm saying is what is happened in my game.

I agree with you. I also saw some unrealistic results in my game.

[Herbert Fandel]

Yes, you could be right but what am i talking about is not only the failure of managing clubs. I got Fenerbahce, i was pretty successful, but in the other hand, Gala won CL and Chelsea, Barcelona, RMadrid, Manu, Arsenal, Marseille, Lyon, eliminated before the Semi Finals. The top four was, GALA!!, Dortmund, Bayern Munich and GLADBACH!!!.

We could be succesfull some way, but when Galatasaray reaches to the final winning against Milan in aggregate 5-2, against Valencia 5-0, against Bayern 4-1 and in the final Dortmund 4-0, i'm feeling this game is not realistic. btw, i'm not tinkering, all i'm saying is what is happened in my game.

Now we are arguing over different topics. I agree that the results of AI teams in the 1st season or in WC isn't as realistic as I would like, but it seems this is down to detail level. Of course SI should improve it.

Please don't confuse me pointing out my lack of interest in him saying the game was unplayable due to him not winning with me saying the game is perfect. Not once did he or I mention the issue that is now upsetting you

[oguzcan11]

But being in Turkey wouldnt you be happy that a turkish club won the champions league? Or does your rivalry with them extend to this digital format?

Any team on its day can win, if these smaller teams keep wining the comp then raise the issue. In my save the three winners were Man utd, Man city and Barca, about right i think....

we played the game in online mode with my friend who manages Galatasaray. I was in the UEFA Final too, i was eliminated by Lille, he won the CL in the first season. Now he thinks that he's king of the game . All i'm saying it is impossible. It might be possible but in the first season, it's impossible.

Amongst of you, did anyone realised that Turkish clubs always over-achieve? If not, i will say that was a coincidence and be quiet

[milnerpoint]

But being in Turkey wouldnt you be happy that a turkish club won the champions league? Or does your rivalry with them extend to this digital format?

Any team on its day can win, if these smaller teams keep wining the comp then raise the issue. In my save the three winners were Man utd, Man city and Barca, about right i think....

In my game its been Barca twice, and Brazil won the world cup, although Barca did play Gala in the final in the first season.

[Ginola79]

I agree with you. I also saw some unrealistic results in my game.

Unrealistic results happen in real life too - Greece winning Euros. My own country winning Euro 1992 - Chelsea winning CHL with the crisis they had. It happens.

I havent seen anything that couldnt happen except in matches but thats MEs fault and thats getting a fix.

[oguzcan11]

Now we are arguing over different topics. I agree that the results of AI teams in the 1st season or in WC isn't as realistic as I would like, but it seems this is down to detail level. Of course SI should improve it.

Please don't confuse me pointing out my lack of interest in him saying the game was unplayable due to him not winning with me saying the game is perfect. Not once did he or I mention the issue that is now upsetting you

Sorry about your confusion, i think it is because my English.

[Fancy Gaffot]

Whit? If you have the right feeder club you can. It has already been shown that Torwin (understandably) misunderstood the value of his hungarian feeder team.

My transfers are being cancelled when players don't get the work permission. In older FMs I could still sign them and loan them out for 3 years but not in FM13.

[iknowniknuk]

Unrealistic results happen - Greece winning Euros. My own country winning Euro 1992 - Chelsea winning CHL with the crisis they had. It happens.

I havent seen anything that couldnt happen except in matches but thats MEs fault and thats getting a fix.

In my game its been Barca twice, and Brazil won the world cup, although Barca did play Gala in the final in the first season.

Denmark won it in my save. Eriksen player of the tournament.

[Herbert Fandel]

My transfers are being cancelled when players don't get the work permission. In older FMs I could still sign them and loan them out for 3 years but not in FM13.

Do you 100% have a feeder club from Croatia or Belgium? You need this to be able to loan them out, as you did in older FMs.

If you do have such a feeder club, and in the feeder club relationship description it mentions work-permits, then there could be a problem

[Casual]

@Herbert Fandel

What more do you want? Do you want me to post stats for each player or something? I've read dozen posts of those who enjoy the game in which they advise others not to tinker with tactics much and start off with standard instructions, that's what I did and here you see the results. I don't know what other proof you want. I'm not a programer so I can't give you lines of code that should be changed, I can only give you my observation of the game as an experienced manager gamer and a football fanatic. Opponents score too many goals too easily. BOTTOM LINE! I gave you the proof, I gave you the screenshots. If all these posts are not enough than I don't what is.

I want to earn my wins, but against teams that in real life actually do stand a chance against the team I'm managing in this case Red Star. I don't want to lose at home to complete idiots with grey attributes! As a football fan I know well that surprises and shocks can happen, but when they happen to often like in FM 2013 then it's really annoying and just puts you off playing the game. Under no cirumstances should I have 9 games in which I lost points out of 17 played with Red Star, and as well the other major contender Partizan with similar results. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, because I'm a good FM player and this chalenge is nothing compared to what success I had in the past with bad rating teams that I managed. And even if I wasn't any good, I still shouldn't lose like that because I did nothing wrong. I put the best players, with regular world-wide known tactics and I got catastrophic results. So either way I shouldn't be getting results like these because I'm not doing anything radical, I'm not messing with the predifined sliders, I got the best coaches, I prepared the team well etc. If something more than that is needed to beat the teams 10 times worse than you, then I call on SI to say it publicly that this year's FM is harder than before and that we need to set every player's slider individually before every game so that we could be able to beat anyone.

But knowing SI's stand and FM releases in the last couple of years it's been obvious that they wanted to adapt the game so that the new, casual users could enjoy it more. Remember last year everyone was whining, me included, how the game was too easy- made more for casual users than us experienced ones. As I guess SI's strategy hasn't changed since last year, I very much doubt that they would make the game this hard on purpose, so that only tactical masterminds could play it like many of you sort of claim. I think the game is buggy, and that SI didn't make the game like this on purpose, because the casual gamers that they are targeting surely wouldn't enjoy to lose so much and would be put off.

Now I just hope SI understands the critics that we're writing and improve the game so it can be better for all of us and not only for the minority of self-proclaimed tactical geniuses.

[WormboY]

Well, i tried a stuff to know how Scouts works.

So, I signed a Scout with 20 at CA & PA observation (the best right?), and sent him to give me a report of some young players.

Then, after he gave me the report, for example Luke Shaw (3,5 stars). And in the unofficial "helper" the really PA of him is just 151 PA.

Isn't it supposed to have a nice PA, something like 160 'till 170 ou something like that, 'cause de 3,5 stars???

If anyone can help, i appreciate.

[hluraven]

Well, i tried a stuff to know how Scouts works.

So, I signed a Scout with 20 at CA & PA observation (the best right?), and sent him to give me a report of some young players.

Then, after he gave me the report, for example Luke Shaw (3,5 stars). And in the unofficial "helper" the really PA of him is just 151 PA.

Isn't it supposed to have a nice PA, something like 160 'till 170 ou something like that, 'cause de 3,5 stars???

If anyone can help, i appreciate.

151 is a good player for top sides. 160-170 is a top player for any team. 180-190 is one of the best players ever level.

[WormboY]

Well 3 Stars for Carlos Fierro and he have more than 170. So i don't agree with you hluraven...

Isn't it logic, i guess.

[Welshace]

Star rating is also based on what you currently have in your team..

So a player with 140pa to a prem side might be 3 stars.. but to a championship side, its 4...

And it can change daily.

[WormboY]

I'm on Barcelona, and have one of the best Scouts (Corvino), how can he gave me 3.5 stars for one player with 151 PA and 3 stars for another one with more than 170 ??

[milnerpoint]

Good, they should not always get it spot on.

[Ginola79]

Star rating is also based on what you currently have in your team..

So a player with 140pa to a prem side might be 3 stars.. but to a championship side, its 4...

And it can change daily.

Ive tried telling ppl this for ages - it depends on alot of stuff. Reading his description is often alot better. Ive a 2 and half star RB but he has epic stats and is "A leading man in most Premier division sides" - thats enough for me

Stars is a learning curve though it dosent mean what it does in other games completely.

[hluraven]

Luke Shaw is a left back, Fierro is a striker. Shaw is compared to Abidal, Fierro to Messi.

[rekluse]

I'm on Barcelona, and have one of the best Scouts (Corvino), how can he gave me 3.5 stars for one player with 151 PA and 3 stars for another one with more than 170 ??

A high PA player with low key attributes for their position is going to be rated lower than a player with better key attributes.

[WormboY]

Sure, but it's not the case of Fierro, I guess...

But let me try another stuff, I'll add a manager to another top team, like R. Madrid or Juventus and with another Scout with 20 and see how many stars he gave it to me. (on the same save of course)

btw, tks to all for the answers. And if anyone have more opinions i appreciate

[ctfm2012]

Tone down the bullsh***t of the opposition scoring goals right away after you have scored first. How many times have i encountered this to put me off this game which i thought was getting closer to realism. Yes teams do score right after the other team has scored first but for crying out loud it happens too many times to the point of product dissatisfaction. It's not a gambling online website. After my team scored first at one point i went into the settings quickly to change the tactics so that i dont concede a goal but it was already tooooooooooo late.

I hope devs do something about this otherwise my bin is waiting for some rubbish to be tossed in it's mouth.

[Da_Funk]

I'm on Barcelona, and have one of the best Scouts (Corvino), how can he gave me 3.5 stars for one player with 151 PA and 3 stars for another one with more than 170 ??

Because the one with 170 perhaps is low on hidden attributes like professionalism, ambition, important matches and so on so he can't really "step to the next level" and fulfill his potential.

[BiggusD]

@Herbert Fandel

What more do you want? Do you want me to post stats for each player or something? I've read dozen posts of those who enjoy the game in which they advise others not to tinker with tactics much and start off with standard instructions, that's what I did and here you see the results. I don't know what other proof you want. I'm not a programer so I can't give you lines of code that should be changed, I can only give you my observation of the game as an experienced manager gamer and a football fanatic. Opponents score too many goals too easily. BOTTOM LINE! I gave you the proof, I gave you the screenshots. If all these posts are not enough than I don't what is.

I want to earn my wins, but against teams that in real life actually do stand a chance against the team I'm managing in this case Red Star. I don't want to lose at home to complete idiots with grey attributes! As a football fan I know well that surprises and shocks can happen, but when they happen to often like in FM 2013 then it's really annoying and just puts you off playing the game. Under no cirumstances should I have 9 games in which I lost points out of 17 played with Red Star, and as well the other major contender Partizan with similar results. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, because I'm a good FM player and this chalenge is nothing compared to what success I had in the past with bad rating teams that I managed. And even if I wasn't any good, I still shouldn't lose like that because I did nothing wrong. I put the best players, with regular world-wide known tactics and I got catastrophic results. So either way I shouldn't be getting results like these because I'm not doing anything radical, I'm not messing with the predifined sliders, I got the best coaches, I prepared the team well etc. If something more than that is needed to beat the teams 10 times worse than you, then I call on SI to say it publicly that this year's FM is harder than before and that we need to set every player's slider individually before every game so that we could be able to beat anyone.

But knowing SI's stand and FM releases in the last couple of years it's been obvious that they wanted to adapt the game so that the new, casual users could enjoy it more. Remember last year everyone was whining, me included, how the game was too easy- made more for casual users than us experienced ones. As I guess SI's strategy hasn't changed since last year, I very much doubt that they would make the game this hard on purpose, so that only tactical masterminds could play it like many of you sort of claim. I think the game is buggy, and that SI didn't make the game like this on purpose, because the casual gamers that they are targeting surely wouldn't enjoy to lose so much and would be put off.

Now I just hope SI understands the critics that we're writing and improve the game so it can be better for all of us and not only for the minority of self-proclaimed tactical geniuses.

The common factor in all these threads and posts about losing against much poorer teams as well as unrealistic AI clubs doing really well while big clubs struggling, is that defensive counter-tactics are more efficient than attacking ones. Until the patch comes out I advice you to play 4-5-1 or 5-3-2 variants especially against poor teams which will try to play defensively against you.

Other than that, we are punished very harshly for signing too many players in FM13; it takes like six months before they actually perform better than the much weaker players you already have. Another possible reason for your poor performance may be the starting reputation "difficulty setting" that SI introduced in FM12 also being in place in FM13. Until you actually win something, team talks are more or less shut off.

So, what I am trying to say here is that the reasons for these poor performances are either A) your tactics, B) your management or C) your players. The reason for saying this so bluntly is because while there are many and serious faults with the ME, it is a fact that people are doing fine anyway - and so can you! Yes of course defensive football shouldn't be more efficient than attacking football, otherwise every big club in the world would play 5-4-1 or something; and good footballers shouldn't fall asleep in the middle of a football match like they do regularly in FM13. It is still possible to succeed with Red Star, though.

It is wrong what people say about tweaking tactics, that it works to keep it simple. It is the other way around - certain things work and other things don't. If your tactic does not make a clear difference either in a specific match or in general, then it is pointless watching the matches - you might as well holiday on match day so that your assistant takes over. "Play with default tactics" = no difference between you and an AI manager at the same club, unless you are better than the AI at using shouts and adjusting to the opponent's tactics.

No, tweak until you can see a clear difference, but be aware that it is a waste of time to try out random stuff. How does the goals come against you? Why are so many shots missed? Watch in at least extended and see what goes wrong.

Goal highlights are often too short to be of use. Upload couple of .pkm's here and maybe I'll find time to take a look and see if I can spot some tactical issues.

[pigfacemonkeyman]

I see. Ok, thanks, guess it's time to try and convince the stubborn board that we DO need another feeder club

I don't know if this process has changed much in the last couple of years, but if you still have to wait six months to ask again after being refused, why not sack your existing feeder club before you ask.

[WormboY]

Because the one with 170 perhaps is low on hidden attributes like professionalism, ambition, important matches and so on so he can't really "step to the next level" and fulfill his potential.

Nop, Shaw (the one with 151 PA) have that hidden attributes less than 10, Fierro (+170 PA) more than (13).

[Leon_fogo]

The next update will be at 13.1.3 right? Correct the ME, let's relax guys, the guys are working hard, the next patch will make the game perfect, everything is slowly hitting!

[Keyzer Soze]

After a important win over Porto in the portguese league... i must say:

This games, sometimes, just leaves on the verge of a nervous breakdown! I see things on the pitch that just makes me wanna scream..."Are you ****ing crazy?!?!?!?!??!?!"

Well... i'm guessing this is Football Manager... as real as it gets!!!