bell Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm not concerned by either signing, both look fairly astute and certainly Moneyball. Dempsey at £7m is undervalued IMO, realistically worth double and somewhat underrated. Borini is classic Moneyball, good value, young, should improve. Worth noting that combined, they scored about as many goals as our whol team put together last season (OK, not quite, but you get the pont) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Borini bid definitely accepted. Sky Sports News breaking it . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 People moan about, me passing comment about the wasted money we've spent, Isn't it about time we stopped going on about "moneyball" ffs too its a stupid term that's a busted flush even in American sports where it might have worked once. We aren't a middle table club either, We are a **** poorly run big club currently on the playing side of things, think Manchester united of the 80s. Dempsey at 7 million is all he's worth. 29 one year of his contract left and one good season doesn't make you a 15 million pound player.............. unless we are buying obviously. Borini and Allen are more interesting assuming we could get either at the right price, If a little uninspiring Two guys the new manager has worked with before speaks volumes of our scouting network. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 i agree with this^^ apart from allen, who i dont rate. watched him a few times and hes not even a poor mans alonso. ive always found him to be quite poor in possession and would put him on a par with someone like adam. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'd disagree, I think we're now a mid table club and anybody who believes we're still an attractive big club, in my opinion, is severely deluding themselves. We've been run into the ground by ****** managers and even shittier boards. Even Brendan thinks we're crap and has pretty much said as much. Lets just hope we can get back in the champions league asap because if you're not there, you're pretty much mid table. Maybe mid table with some nice history, but mid table none the less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knapp... Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 rodgers on maxi He explained: "I have known about Maxi for a long time. He will understand 120 per cent about the way I want us to play."But sometimes there are issues that surround that - that's what I am speaking to him about now. He doesn't speak the language, it has been difficult for his family."If a player like him wanted to leave, it would not be because of the club. Sometimes it is just personal issues. I have had a couple of really good conversations with him. I know his thoughts and how he is thinking. It was a difficult season for him. He probably felt that he should have played more. "We will hopefully see where he is at over the next couple of weeks and find a solution for him. "But he would be a very good player for our squad." never realised he doesn't speak english, sure he has before. good news that rodgers wants to keep him around though, hopefully he can talk him round. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'd disagree, I think we're now a mid table club and anybody who believes we're still an attractive big club, in my opinion, is severely deluding themselves. We've been run into the ground by ****** managers and even shittier boards. Even Brendan thinks we're crap and has pretty much said as much.Lets just hope we can get back in the champions league asap because if you're not there, you're pretty much mid table. Maybe mid table with some nice history, but mid table none the less. we're one of the top 10 richest clubs on the planet. accept mid table mediocrity and we'll get it. i agree we've been mis managed all over the place but theres no reason with our potential resources we cant get back up there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 4-2-3-1 gives us I don't like the look of any of that back up team apart from Coates and Kelly. Although I didn't include Shelvey as not really sure who he'd start ahead of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
daemonic Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'd put Shelvey ahead of Cole in the backup team. Cole is done, couldn't last 90 minutes in almost any games last season and has been on the decline for about 3 years now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tullem Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'd also put Shelvey ahead of Spearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 We still really need a half decent DM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 If we are going to play 4-3-3/ 4-2-3-1 i hope to god we don't play Suarez up top, not without signing about 4 new players that would work in that system. I don't think i could bear another season of watching us play with nobody inside their 18 yard box......................... ever. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The formation wasn't the problem, it was the lack of midfielders making runs into the box. That just needs a tactical tweak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 We are still a huge club despite what anyone says. We have just been mis-managed (from the top down) for a number of years and as a result we are under-performing. With the right infrastructure and a manager who is given time to make the right decisions for the long term, we will be back competing for the top 4 in a couple of years. Good players still want to join our club. It amazes me how fickle some of our supporters are. We finished 2nd in the league 3 years ago FFS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The truth hurts. Until we are back in the champions league, we're a mid table club with nothing to entice good players but history. And I'm pretty sure Gylfi didn't give a toss about us finishing second three years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So being a big club depends entirely on being in the CL? Right... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So being a big club depends entirely on being in the CL? Right... It most certainly helps to attract big club players, or would you disagree? Obviously some types of manager help to bring in quality players and I'm wondering what sort of pulling power Rodgers has got. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Of course I agree with that, but that wasn't your point. My point is that just because we haven't been in the CL for a couple of years we don't suddenly become Aston Villa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Of course I agree with that, but that wasn't your point. My point is that just because we haven't been in the CL for a couple of years we don't suddenly become Aston Villa. No, but it makes joining Spurs a more realistic aim to achieve success. Just ask Sigurdsson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 He went to Spurs for the money. The fact that he dragged his heels for so long proves my point. If we had matched Spurs offer he would have joined us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The formation wasn't the problem, it was the lack of midfielders making runs into the box. That just needs a tactical tweak. I didn't say it was a formation problem, its a player problem. There was a reason maxi scored goals he's the only player we have that knows how to exploit the space in the box and actually drives to get in and around the 6 yard box. We don't currently have any midfielders or wide forwards that do that, and if your main striker likes to go wander it becomes a problem no tactical tweak would fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knapp... Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 [video=youtube;2dEJn66tRug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dEJn66tRug [video=youtube;bpzLOkyJ5Vg] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 The fact that he dragged his heels for so long proves my point. It proves nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 He went to Spurs for the money. The fact that he dragged his heels for so long proves my point. If we had matched Spurs offer he would have joined us. Nonsense, there's no way you can just assume that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Borini strikes a deal ball like Ronaldo . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LRJ Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Fwiw, this is what Aqua's agent said yesterday. "Alberto is back in England and is still a Liverpool player. He will play there next season." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm not assuming it. Several journos and BR himself said that we refused to budge on wages which is why he joined Spurs. I know that is not forced to be 100% fact but it's what I believe having read what I've read. Of course Sig is now saying he joined Spurs for other reasons, which he would say either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm not assuming it. Several journos and BR himself said that we refused to budge on wages which is why he joined Spurs. I know that is not forced to be 100% fact but it's what I believe having read what I've read. Of course Sig is now saying he joined Spurs for other reasons, which he would say either way. Your conclusion is still nonsense. Even if you had matched Spurs' wage packet there's no guarantee he'd chosen you over them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So he held out for us to match their offer only to reject us anyway? That's nonsense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRL88 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So he held out for us to match their offer only to reject us anyway? That's nonsense. He never said that at all. He said IF we had matched Spurs offer he might have still turned us down. At the end of the day, I think he see's Spurs getting into the Champions League before us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 So he held out for us to match their offer only to reject us anyway? That's nonsense. Match their offer? Probably waited to see if you'd offer him more than Spurs, more like Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I never saw a quote where he said that. I saw Spurs putting deadlines on him because he was trying to get us to match the offer. I saw BR saying in his press conference that the reason he turned us down was financial. Anyway, my original point was that I still believe that we are a big club and that a few years out of the CL doesn't make us mid-table mediocre like some have said. I realise I might be in the minority in this view and I will now stop banging my drum! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 My post was in response to SRL88 btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I never saw a quote where he said that. I saw Spurs putting deadlines on him because he was trying to get us to match the offer. I saw BR saying in his press conference that the reason he turned us down was financial. But you did see quotes where he said he was just waiting by the phone for Liverpool to call and match Spurs offer so he didn't have to join Spurs? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I'm forming an opinion on events based on the information available to me. If that is an alien concept to you then I apologise. I believe the general consensus is that the main reason for him joining Spurs was that they offered him the most money. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 General concensus amongst Liverpool fans looking for an explanation why a player would choose Spurs over Liverpool, no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I didn't say it was a formation problem, its a player problem. There was a reason maxi scored goals he's the only player we have that knows how to exploit the space in the box and actually drives to get in and around the 6 yard box.We don't currently have any midfielders or wide forwards that do that, and if your main striker likes to go wander it becomes a problem no tactical tweak would fix. But do those players not get into attacking positions because they are unable to, because they choose not to or because their manager instructs them not to? It's probably one of the latter two, which means it can be fixed by the manager giving clear instructions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 [video=youtube;2dEJn66tRug]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dEJn66tRug [video=youtube;bpzLOkyJ5Vg] My favourite goals on those videos are the opportunistic tap ins. Just what we need. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 This is what Sig had to say for himself. Gylfi Sigurdsson explained on Thursday that he chose to join Tottenham Hotspur instead of Liverpool because he believes they have a stronger team with a greater chance of winning trophies. “There’s nothing wrong with Liverpool but there’s everything right about Tottenham,” said the Icelandic midfielder, who signed for £8 million, a fee that was also agreed with Liverpool. “Look at where Spurs have finished in the last few years, compared to Liverpool, and look at the squad here. It’s a fantastic team and with the new training ground, possibility of a new stadium, it’s exciting times.” Sigurdsson angered Liverpool’s new manager, Brendan Rodgers, by rejecting the offer to follow him from Swansea City, where the 22 year-old was on loan last season, to Anfield. Rodgers even claimed Sigurdsson’s wage demands had been too high although he admitted he had not offered him any more money to go to Liverpool. But the midfielder rejected the suggestion that it was a financial decision and explained: “I spoke to Brendan briefly. Obviously I owe him a lot for what he did for me at Reading and bringing me back to England from Hoffenheim with Swansea. “But it’s a new era for me. Spurs are a fantastic club, a club with a lot of additions, with players who are world-class. They finished fourth in the Premier League last season, fifth the year before and were in the Champions League – and this team are more than capable of being in the Champions League again.” Swansea, under Rodgers, also tried to negotiate a deal for Sigurdsson, who scored seven goals, plus three assists, in his 19 Premier League games last season. But Rodgers’ departure, and the interest from other clubs, changed things. “It’s hard to say whether I would have stayed at Swansea had Brendan Rodgers remained there,” the player explained. “I think everyone then expected me to follow Brendan. But I’m very happy with the decision and feel privileged to be playing for Tottenham.” And the club’s new head coach, Andre Villas-Boas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 But do those players not get into attacking positions because they are unable to, because they choose not to or because their manager instructs them not to? It's probably one of the latter two, which means it can be fixed by the manager giving clear instructions. Actually I'd suggest it was one of the first two, Unless your under the assumption only Maxi was instructed to break into the box on the odd occasion he played, or the reason he was dropped is he was going against instructions to do so and i really don't get the impression KD micro managed his players that much. I'd suggest its far more likely it just isn't a part of the attacking players we have game to do so or something they are comfortable with, which is something much harder to deal with than a quick tactical fix. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted July 13, 2012 Administrators Share Posted July 13, 2012 My favourite goals on those videos are the opportunistic tap ins. Just what we need. See more here from his formative years: [video=youtube;uRimBybtn_8] Really hope(d) it wasn't going to happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
knapp... Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 haha nearly stuck that video in with the other two tbh but thought some would mock it because it was only youth level or something . shows his quality throughout it imo, that goal at 4:05 or so is class. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dking Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Why did Chelsea let him go? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Philip Rolfe Posted July 13, 2012 Administrators Share Posted July 13, 2012 He was low-balled in negotiations and felt he could get a better deal and better playing time elsewhere, and that's proven to be true. Why the club low-balled him in the first place I don't know; it's somewhat churlish to offer him £10k p/w when you've got Sinclair on £20k and Kakuta on £30k having proven little more and played barely any more in the first team. I don't think Arnesen particularly rated him, Ancelotti did and wanted to play him more but after he and his agent scoffed at the offer and gave their intention to leave on a free, 'advice' from someone higher up the Chelsea hierarchy (I'll speculate Arnesen again, with backing from someone on the board) to Ancelotti was not to play him, which is why he didn't feature in his last season and went to Swansea. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonus1010 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Anyone else think N'Zonzi would be a worth a buy as back up for Lucas? Especially at the £5m tag that is flying around, would be interesting to see how he would perform with better players around him too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 He seemed well frustrated at Blackburn last season, like he was playing with a bunch of idiots (which he was). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shonte Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 See more here from his formative years:Really hope(d) it wasn't going to happen. He seems to be a real poacher. Some of those clips remind me of a young Owen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenco Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Actually I'd suggest it was one of the first two, Unless your under the assumption only Maxi was instructed to break into the box on the odd occasion he played, or the reason he was dropped is he was going against instructions to do so and i really don't get the impression KD micro managed his players that much.I'd suggest its far more likely it just isn't a part of the attacking players we have game to do so or something they are comfortable with, which is something much harder to deal with than a quick tactical fix. Whatever the reason, I was baffled as to why Maxi didn't get more starts last season. Maybe because of the language barrier / not being British. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustygator Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 A bit late but to those talking about Dempsey being 29 and only having x amount of years in him, you have to consider the differences between the US and other countries as far as youth development. US players have a lot less miles on their body at the same age since they haven't been involved in club's academies since they were 8 or 9. Normally it's smaller scale youth traveling leagues and the like, then high school teams, then university/NCAA level competition. As it is, most players that aren't involved in private academies don't play professionally (via MLS draft, etc) until 21/22 versus 17/18 for European/South American kids. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foofighter23 Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 rumours borini will be announced later and also maxi has told team mates he's definitely going, after training earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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