Players Retiring after injuries [Merged]

[dSquib]

Turneep

Fair to say then that many "premature" retirements are being missed.

[Robert the Spud]

How do you know? Of course there will be a moment where he considers stopping.

Long term injury doesnt necessarily have to mean retirement. Maybe someone else's Terry broke his back and returned next season.

It is just common sense really. John Terry, at 30 y/o, would just not retire after a season of injury. SI researchers make assumptions on players all the time, that are gleaned from a personal perspective. That JT would not quit football so young for a half-season or season long injury, which is ok to come back from, is an objective fact.

These are big name players retiring. It's simply not congruent with real life, when you consider the Owen's, the Hargreaves, the Ramsey's, Ben arfa's, Woodgate's etc etc, that players such as Cole, Terry, Suarez etc would retire from injuries which have been proven time and time again to be perfectly treatable! There are rarely any big time players who retire through such problems.

And the Ross barkley/groin strain for two mths retirement is surely an indication that there is a problem within the game, that will likely become more prevalent in people's saves.

[dutch3723]

Ok, so its the 8th November in season 3, and Ben Arfa has returned after his 3 months out with a fractured skull. He still plans to retire at the end of the season. Whilst I can get on board with the career threatening injuries (even though it seems to be happening a lot to some top players), the fact that he is now going to play on for 7/8 more months and THEN retire is something that surely needs looking at. I can't imagine this happening in real life.

[themadsheep2001]

Ok, so its the 8th November in season 3, and Ben Arfa has returned after his 3 months out with a fractured skull. He still plans to retire at the end of the season. Whilst I can get on board with the career threatening injuries (even though it seems to be happening a lot to some top players), the fact that he is now going to play on for 7/8 more months and THEN retire is something that surely needs looking at. I can't imagine this happening in real life.

This case is definitely an issue. he'd either retire because of injury, or not at all.

[VonBlade]

I've never had a single retirement in my many years of playing FM. I'd be delighted if it happened more often. We can't listen to a billionth of a percentage of people who think that everyone should be injury-proof forever.

[Sjg123]

I don't think I've ever seen a player retire instantly in any CM/FM gane, it's always announced as being at the end of this or next season. Could it be that the game simply doesn't allow for instant retirements (such as Gary Neville's retirement last january) and simply sets the retirement date at the end of the season, even if injury problems is the cause?

[xtradj]

Here's a list I copied from another site

Here are some of the Premier League players past and present that we know are retiring or that we think may retire this year

Paul Scholes - Currently playing for Man Utd

Patrick Viera - Currently playing for Man City

Jonathan Woodgate - Currently playing for Tottenham

Ledley King - Currently playing for Tottenham

Sol Campbell - Released by Newcastle

Dean Kiely - Currently playing for West Brom

Kieron Dyer - Currently playing for West Ham

Jody Craddock - Currently playing for Wolves

Edwin Van Der Sar - RETIRED

Nwankwo Kanu - Currently playing for Portsmouth

Kasey Keller - Currently playing for Seattle Sounders

Gavin McCann - RETIRED

Owen Hargreaves - Currently playing for Man City

Jerzy Dudek - Just left Real Madrid

Nicky Butt - Currently playing for South China

Robert Pires - Currently playing for Aston Villa

Stephen Carr - Currently playing for Birmingham

Kevin Phillips - Currently playing for Birmingham

Michel Salgado - Currently playing for Blackburn

mate that list is wrong

Phillips is at Blackpool, Pires is not at villa, Scholes retired last summer, Viera is not at city, and Woodgate is at stoke

[xtradj]

so are SI going to release a patch to fix this?

[MUFC1995]

so are SI going to release a patch to fix this?

I hope so, or at least bring the patch date forward!

[MUFC1995]

I've never had a single retirement in my many years of playing FM. I'd be delighted if it happened more often. We can't listen to a billionth of a percentage of people who think that everyone should be injury-proof forever.

that is not what people are saying, john terry got injured for about 6 months with a minor injury and retired because of it! ben arfa got injured at 26, got fit and played for 6 months then retired!

[VonBlade]

Oh please. Every version of FM is guaranteed to have 8000000 "2 Muny injuriz!!!!!!!" threads. Here is one in which a player, rightfully, decided that his life was more important than a game, and people are up in arms. Who are you to decide if a player should carry on after an injury? History is awash with players who've decided to hang them up after a relatively minor injury, and equally we have a load of players who keep going even with no legs (hi Ledley King).

That's why we have squads.

[Guest]

Oh please. Every version of FM is guaranteed to have 8000000 "2 Muny injuriz!!!!!!!" threads. Here is one in which a player, rightfully, decided that his life was more important than a game, and people are up in arms. Who are you to decide if a player should carry on after an injury? History is awash with players who've decided to hang them up after a relatively minor injury, and equally we have a load of players who keep going even with no legs (hi Ledley King).

That's why we have squads.

Would you like a bucket of sand to go with that? I would argue that it is far too early to be calling for a patch to fix a problem that might not actually exist but to simply talk down to people because you are 100% sure that it doesn't is as unhelpful as calling for an immediate patch.

[Stu Coleman]

that is not what people are saying, john terry got injured for about 6 months with a minor injury and retired because of it! ben arfa got injured at 26, got fit and played for 6 months then retired!

A broken leg isn't a minor injury.

[Smurf]

A broken leg isn't a minor injury.

It's not an injury that would force you to retire either. Cisse's leg was hanging off and he made a come back.

Seriously something up with this.

[sean_macleod]

It's not an injury that would force you to retire either. Cisse's leg was hanging off and he made a come back.

Seriously something up with this.

it could quite easily be.

[themadsheep2001]

It's not an injury that would force you to retire either. Cisse's leg was hanging off and he made a come back.

Seriously something up with this.

You can definitely be forced to retire from a broken leg, its not cut and dried. Some people comeback differently some breaks are worse than others

[Chris6543210]

Using the Premier League as a sample size, how many players have retired due to injuries in, lets say the last five years?

Can only think of Dean Ashton off the top of my head.

Martin Laursen

[Candre168]

But by the sound of things...SERIOUS injuries are too common. My 3.5M striker (I'm playing as Zurich, that's A LOT of money) just went down with a damaged spine (2-3 months). I can't play now cause I KNOW he will retire. Have to wait for something to fix this.

[pelicanstuff]

Matt Murray

[pelicanstuff]

But by the sound of things...SERIOUS injuries are too common. My 3.5M striker (I'm playing as Zurich, that's A LOT of money) just went down with a damaged spine (2-3 months). I can't play now cause I KNOW he will retire. Have to wait for something to fix this.

Why on earth are you convinced he'll retire? Only a small number of people have seen this happen so it's a fairly rare occurrence.

[Sharpy07]

But by the sound of things...SERIOUS injuries are too common. My 3.5M striker (I'm playing as Zurich, that's A LOT of money) just went down with a damaged spine (2-3 months). I can't play now cause I KNOW he will retire. Have to wait for something to fix this.

LOL!!! Seriously!

[Guest]

As I see things the current situation can be best described by one of the following statements

1. There is no problem, not helped by reeling off real world examples though. A simple reply from SI confirming that this feature has been exhaustively tested over the years & nothing abnormal was reported in this years beta
   
2. There are indications of a problem, not helped by people jumping up & down screaming 'there is a problem' & demanding a patch. Best option is to post in the bugs forum & upload save files, perhaps do some soak testing of your own.
   
3. There is a problem but SI have been unable to isolate the cause &/or a solution that does not cause another problem. This one is easy to handle, just need SI to say so & again refrain from reeling off real life examples of retired players & community to repeat action suggested in statement 2
   
4. There is a problem & SI are aware of it but due to a grand conspiracy by Miles they will not fix it until they figure out how to increase revenues when they release the fix. This one for those not paying attention is not all that serious.
   

Simply put guys, what happens in real life is less important than what happens in the game, prove whether there is a problem with the frequency of player retirements following certain injury types or in the case of SI confirm the numbers that were presented in testing & from there the discussion can move to what is realistic behaviour from the players if there is a discrepancy.

[Stu Coleman]

Why on earth are you convinced he'll retire? Only a small number of people have seen this happen so it's a fairly rare occurrence.

I'm fairly sure that was a windup....

As I see things the current situation can be best described by one of the following statements

1. There is no problem, not helped by reeling off real world examples though. A simple reply from SI confirming that this feature has been exhaustively tested over the years & nothing abnormal was reported in this years beta
   
2. There are indications of a problem, not helped by people jumping up & down screaming 'there is a problem' & demanding a patch. Best option is to post in the bugs forum & upload save files, perhaps do some soak testing of your own.
   
3. There is a problem but SI have been unable to isolate the cause &/or a solution that does not cause another problem. This one is easy to handle, just need SI to say so & again refrain from reeling off real life examples of retired players & community to repeat action suggested in statement 2
   
4. There is a problem & SI are aware of it but due to a grand conspiracy by Miles they will not fix it until they figure out how to increase revenues when they release the fix. This one for those not paying attention is not all that serious.
   

Simply put guys, what happens in real life is less important than what happens in the game, prove whether there is a problem with the frequency of player retirements following certain injury types or in the case of SI confirm the numbers that were presented in testing & from there the discussion can move to what is realistic behaviour from the players if there is a discrepancy.

See post #116.

[Guest]

See post #116.

Missed that, hadn't realised the thread had move on so much since I last checked, although I guess point 2 still stands.

/walks away somewhat sheepishly

[KUBI]

The problem with a lot of this issues is that various people reporting from various saved games. Combined, it looks like an issue. But if you look at each saved games it's probably just coincidence. It's the same with injuries. Whenever there is someone posting that there is an injury bug, everyone who has an injury problem in his club will join in and some people will gather all the posts and start a new thread about the big injury bug.

Such things have to be tested with various long term games until you know if there is something or not. And it takes some time. Always.

[Guest]

/Sneaks back in

@ Stu Coleman (twitter has a lot to answer for) I guess there is a follow up question of whether the proportion of top division players retiring due to injury has increased from previous FM's? Even if the overall percentage has remained more or less stable over the years there might be other factors at work that have inadvertently resulted in a shift towards more high profile players calling it a day.

[Riz Remes]

The problem with a lot of this issues is that various people reporting from various saved games.

This. You can't really take the thousands of gameworlds that are running on the machines of different FM users, take a total number of some instances in all these gameworlds and compare it with real life totals that are from one single instance of a "gameworld". Like Stu already posted above, the number of players retiring each year in an FM gameworld is very low.

And like Stu already said in post #118, the issue of a player deciding to retire due to injury but still coming back to play for the remainder of the season is a legit issue which we are looking into as that is obviously a bit odd.

[DE-Z]

This. You can't really take the thousands of gameworlds that are running on the machines of different FM users, take a total number of some instances in all these gameworlds and compare it with real life totals that are from one single instance of a "gameworld". Like Stu already posted above, the number of players retiring each year in an FM gameworld is very low.

And like Stu already said in post #118, the issue of a player deciding to retire due to injury but still coming back to play for the remainder of the season is a legit issue which we are looking into as that is obviously a bit odd.

I think the problem would be that it is high profile players with quality medical teams working on them 24/7. John Terry and Ashley Cole shouldn't be retiring due to injury. Modern medical science is so advanced that other than Dean Ashton I can't really think of anyone of the top of my head who has had to retire in recent years in the premier league due to serious injury? My case at Queen's Park is understandable, I'm just pretending he's a student at Glasgow University studying some form of medicine and believes he shall never heal 100% unless he retires, thus pursuing his other interest. It's just the same can't be said for John Terry?

[RedGiant]

In my save Terry also retired after season 2011/12. He played in 25 games in Premiership, has no injury, so it's very strange.

I think early retirement in the game occurs too often. Some of them even aren't due to injury.

I'm going to go on holiday and check if there is a rapid increase of player-turned-managers at 30-32.

[ArsenalFan7]

Experienced CB Emir Spahic (33) has just announced he will retire at the end of the season after suffering from a broken ankle (2-3 month injury).

Problem for me is that he states he is looking forward to returning to action as soon as possible implying he wants to get back to playing and recovering straight away, not playing two games after his injury and then quitting the game. He's getting a good amount of football for his club Sevilla (14 appearances) and was still a part to the Bosnian national side boasting over 70 caps and being one of their best CB's.

I'd just prefer it if the players reasons for the retiring were explained better in game. If he stated it was due to the injury in his personal page it would be much more clear to me.

Overall makes little sense retiring planning to retire due to the injury though. fwiw this doesn't effect me, just stating.

[RedGiant]

In my save Terry also retired after season 2011/12. He played in 25 games in Premiership, has no injury, so it's very strange.

Some players plan to retire at 31-32 even when they are doing great! I just went on holiday for 6 years and got these cases

[jase19]

Ok, so its the 8th November in season 3, and Ben Arfa has returned after his 3 months out with a fractured skull. He still plans to retire at the end of the season. Whilst I can get on board with the career threatening injuries (even though it seems to be happening a lot to some top players), the fact that he is now going to play on for 7/8 more months and THEN retire is something that surely needs looking at. I can't imagine this happening in real life.

yeah this makes absolutely no sense, at all.

[postal postie]

dont players usually wait until they have fully recovered from a bad injury before saying they will retire due to the injury? if they retire before, do the clubs still pay for their recuperation? i dont think so - so it makes sense for a plyaer to wait until getting a full bill of health before deciding that even though they are back to full fitness, its better if they retire.

if its constant small niggly injuries then maybe not, but bad injuries, yes.

in my opinion, the decision on whether to retire from a bad injury should be held off until the player is back in training. at least, for the vast majority of players. most players will want to see whether they can still cope after their injury and they wont know that if they decide to retire while still injured

[jase19]

dont players usually wait until they have fully recovered from a bad injury before saying they will retire due to the injury? if they retire before, do the clubs still pay for their recuperation? i dont think so - so it makes sense for a plyaer to wait until getting a full bill of health before deciding that even though they are back to full fitness, its better if they retire.

if its constant small niggly injuries then maybe not, but bad injuries, yes.

in my opinion, the decision on whether to retire from a bad injury should be held off until the player is back in training. at least, for the vast majority of players. most players will want to see whether they can still cope after their injury and they wont know that if they decide to retire while still injured

pretty sure you're wrong. if you're injured on the job, it's the clubs job to get you back to health. it's generally in the contract. or to us working folk- workmans compensation. what if there is no way they could ever play again from the injury? paralyzed or something? would the club not be responsible to help with the treatment? of course they would.

i cannot remember a player getting a career ending injury, coming back, playing a few months, then deciding- eh, i'm done, especially at a young(ish) age. sub-30 for sure when they're making millions.

[willclarke]

De Guzman retires at age of 24...seriously? He seems reallly determined to overcome injury

[RedGiant]

Went on holiday without managing a club and found Nemanja Vidic was retiring at 32.

[dSquib]

Riz Remes

This. You can't really take the thousands of gameworlds that are running on the machines of different FM users, take a total number of some instances in all these gameworlds and compare it with real life totals that are from one single instance of a "gameworld". Like Stu already posted above, the number of players retiring each year in an FM gameworld is very low.

But it seems people are mostly only noticing the retirements of their own players, except for one player who just happened to come across John Terry as a coach, having retired at 32. You don't know how many players are retiring suddenly in these game worlds, but if we can extrapolate from the clubs being managed by FM players, probably many more.

[johnhughthom]

Went on holiday without managing a club and found Nemanja Vidic was retiring at 32.

He'll actually be nearly 34 on the retirement date.

[jase19]

vidic one isn't too odd, the de guzman one is another laughable one.

[upthetoon]

Seems like if anyone suffers a serious injury the chances of him retiring is almost 90%. SI should just reduce the probability.

[Riz Remes]

Seems like if anyone suffers a serious injury the chances of him retiring is almost 90%. SI should just reduce the probability.

The chances are definitely not that high. Like we've already said, the number of players retiring due to injuries over one full season in the gameworld is very low. There are a few related issues we've already said we are investigating, such as a player deciding to retire but still coming back to play the last part of the season. We're also checking up on some of the injury related retirements of younger players but overall the probability of a player retiring due to an injury is very low.

[upthetoon]

The chances are definitely not that high. Like we've already said, the number of players retiring due to injuries over one full season in the gameworld is very low. There are a few related issues we've already said we are investigating, such as a player deciding to retire but still coming back to play the last part of the season. We're also checking up on some of the injury related retirements of younger players but overall the probability of a player retiring due to an injury is very low.

so basically there is a problem in this area. and thanks for acknowledging it and looking into it.

[johnhughthom]

so basically there is a problem in this area. and thanks for acknowledging it and looking into it.

Did you actually read what you quoted?

[Thorne]

The chances are definitely not that high. Like we've already said, the number of players retiring due to injuries over one full season in the gameworld is very low. There are a few related issues we've already said we are investigating, such as a player deciding to retire but still coming back to play the last part of the season. We're also checking up on some of the injury related retirements of younger players but overall the probability of a player retiring due to an injury is very low.

It doesnt matter how high the chances are. The problem is all of these people are retiring when they realistically never would have. Vidic above for example had an excellent season in one of the best clubs in the world. His paycheck is enormous and his contract runs out in 2016, a year AFTER he retires. It's nice that you implemented this feature but how you didn't take players wages in account is beyond me, same goes for the GK Positioning training but thats a topic for another subject...

[Candre168]

The chances are definitely not that high. Like we've already said, the number of players retiring due to injuries over one full season in the gameworld is very low. There are a few related issues we've already said we are investigating, such as a player deciding to retire but still coming back to play the last part of the season. We're also checking up on some of the injury related retirements of younger players but overall the probability of a player retiring due to an injury is very low.

Can you not acknowledge the de Guzman and other young retirements are actually really unlikely to happen in real life? With modern technology, if you get an injury when you're young, there's a good chance of a comeback. I can understand retirement if the player was 30+, but in the sports world people are coming back from multiple broken legs, fractured skulls and even cancer.

The only type of problem that is certain to take you out of the game is a heart ailment (and other serious health concerns).

[upthetoon]

Did you actually read what you quoted?

yea. they admitted a problem in that area. and are investigating. =) you couldn't understand it? or living in denial?

[Thorne]

vidic one isn't too odd, the de guzman one is another laughable one.

It's extremely odd! Had a great 13/14 season, breaks ankle for 2 months in october 2014 and decides to call it a day at the end of the season despite having a contact until 2016? Cmon...

[mccready]

Michael Owen decided to retire after an injury in mine (he broke his ankle on the 20th of August in the first season), although it's not really surprising considering his history with injuries.

News Item of the announcement: http://cl.ly/BGD9

Edit: I should say I can ask him to reconsider though (but I think it's best letting him retiring as a footballer and making him a coach so I can bring youth through).

[pelicanstuff]

I feel this would be a lot more understandable to the user if the player was trying to come back from the injury, but encountered varying types of setbacks and felt he had to retire after struggling with those for a while.

[whilewolf]

Paul Lake. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Lake

Ben Collett - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Collett

To be honest the injury set-up hasn't changed in this manner since FM11. Players do get injuries and retire, it's desperately unlucky for manager and player (I had Kieron Dyer retire for Newcastle a number of versions back) but it does happen both IRL and in-game.

Both these guys tried to get back to fitness and worked hard in physio, in Lakes case for years before finely calling it quits. I want FM to replicate career ending injuries I just want the players who suffer them to react realistically. I'm fine with a 35 year old calling it a day after a double leg brake but younger players should make an attempt at a come back before reluctantly throwing in the towel.