martplfc1 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Being a Brazilian international isn't really a pre-requisite of having skill or technique tbh and I don't think Lucas has these qualities in abundance anyway. He's 'comfortable' on the ball for sure, but any top flight player should be. Also, the fact that he's only 24 doesn't mean this side of his game will improve; his positional game will of course if he continues to play there but skill and technique are more natural abilities I would say. As I say, maybe the fact that I've never really considered him good enough is blurring my vision and my expectations are too high right now. I hope I end up seeing him as one of the best in the position as you do but right now I'd say he has a bit to go before you can say that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 De Jong probably the only Defensive Midfielder I'd have over Lucas. Maybe Yaya Toure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Who is better? I'd take Yaya Toure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 And Essien if he wasn't always injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insipidus Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Who is better? not even sure really, but i thought if i put he was the top one it would remove credence from my argument. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Fellani and De Jong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 From what I've seen of Yaya Toure at City you can't really compare him to Lucas. Like he may still be a good holding midfielder but his best performances for City have been when he's been marauding forward at will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'd not even take Mascherano back over Lucas. I think Lucas gets criticism because he doesn't do sprinting last minute tackles every 5 minutes. Reminds me so much of Hamann and Makelele with his game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshyboy1984 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Nah. He wouldn't wanna be here would he? We wouldn't get the best out of him sulking to the press and **** whilst we have someone like Lucas who just clearly loves playing for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
why? Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Well it'd be silly to have Masch because he wouldn't want to be here, but he's clearly the better DM. Some truly awesome performances for us against top top teams over the years both domestically and in the CL. Would also certainly take Yaya Toure over Lucas in both a offensive and defensive scenario too myself. Again he's demonstrated his ability at a higher level over a greater period of time. Superb player. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bell Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Lucas seems to eat the Manchester United midfield for breakfast every time we play them. Good enough for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'd rank him 6th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobbo12 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I don't know what people expect from Lucas tbh. 40 yard volleys? Alonso-esque passes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJ234 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 And Essien if he wasn't always injured. Essien wasn't a holding midfielder during his prime. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 We actually had a pretty poor record against the big teams when Masch played IIRC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I assume so yes, along with 50 yard desperate sprints back before just about toeing it into touch, it shows grit and determination and thats proper defending isn't it. Lucas isn't a defensive midfielder, hes a midfielder whos more than proved he's capable of playing a deeper holding role about as well as anyone in in the league at the moment. The comparison with Hamann is pretty much spot on his tactical, postioning and game inteligence for a 24 year old are shockingly over looked and have come on leaps and bounds over the last couple of seasons coupled with the fact that hes a pretty damn good footballer i really can't see where the issue is with him. Actualy i can one gut bursting covering run a game seems to hold more value to some fans than having the ability to be in the right place not to have to do it in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeafParrot Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 He's not a patch on Didi tbf, but thats more because I believe Hamann was, along with Makelele, the best player of his type in the world for a few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
why? Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 We actually had a pretty poor record against the big teams when Masch played IIRC. We also had a shocking record against some really mediocre teams last season when Lucas played. Anyway it's beside the point. Lucas had improved a great deal over the past couple of years and everyone recognises that. Still, it's no criticism to say he isn't as good as someone like Toure or Mascherano, I don't know why some people seem to think it is. That's not directed at you btw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 He's not a patch on Didi tbf, but thats more because I believe Hamann was, along with Makelele, the best player of his type in the world for a few years. i'll agree with you on both, and interestingly i can remember Hamann being critised in the same way. how old was he when we signed him 26 ? 27 its only then he developed into the perfect counter foil to Gerrard even at Newcastle he played as a more traditional 4-4-2 type midfielder in fact i'm sure he played a couple of seasons as a winger in Germany tho i could be wrong. The point is the game intelligence Lucas shows is something you tend to see from a player 3-4 years older and a really big factor in making the step up from a good player to a great one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Didn't Rafa say the same thing about Carragher, that he got praise for doing last ditch tackles but he would rather he was in the right position that he didn't need to have to make them as often. Position, awareness and general game intelligence really are underated qualities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 He's not a patch on Didi tbf, but thats more because I believe Hamann was, along with Makelele, the best player of his type in the world for a few years. i reckon didi doesn't get enough recognition (outside of lfc fans). loved watching him play. i think people want a ball crunching DM in the mould of Masch to be convinced a job is being done. what's impressed me with lucas is that he has built up his strength and is not pushed off the ball easily. The one thing about Lucas though is that he seems to be woeful shooting at goal given he started in a more advanced role. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 His shooting does seem to be poor. Maybe he gets nervous in front of goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VamPook Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Preferred Parker last season tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LFCMatt7 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I honestly can't believe people that still doubt Lucas. He won the most tackles for any player in the top 5 leagues last season, regularly dominates the likes of Chelsea and United's midfield and has probably been our best or near best player for the last 2 seasons. He's also established himself as first choice for Brazil and has a good head on his shoulders and seems a nice lad as well. The rate he's improved since he's joined has been phenomenal, I fully expect everyone who hasn't acknowledged his ability to stand up and notice him next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Can't believe Gerrard was only 24 at Istanbul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 And he was tacticaly outclassed by the milan midfield until didi came on to school everybody even with a broken foot. Its easy to praise and see the worth in players that do the flashy stuff or run thier socks off with infamous English grit even if it isnt particularly effective. Are we now so desperate to prove lucas isnt good enough that we're moaning about his shooting ? really. i'd be surprised if he had more than 20 shots at goal all last season, because amasingly its not the job hes being asked to do and id bet his on target and conversion rate isnt any worse than any other midfielder its just more noticeable because it doesnt happen often. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
morology Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I honestly can't believe people that still doubt Lucas. He won the most tackles for any player in the top 5 leagues last season, regularly dominates the likes of Chelsea and United's midfield and has probably been our best or near best player for the last 2 seasons. He's also established himself as first choice for Brazil and has a good head on his shoulders and seems a nice lad as well. The rate he's improved since he's joined has been phenomenal, I fully expect everyone who hasn't acknowledged his ability to stand up and notice him next season. Exactly this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 And he was tacticaly outclassed by the milan midfield until didi came on to school everybody even with a broken foot.Its easy to praise and see the worth in players that do the flashy stuff or run thier socks off with infamous English grit even if it isnt particularly effective. Are we now so desperate to prove lucas isnt good enough that we're moaning about his shooting ? really. i'd be surprised if he had more than 20 shots at goal all last season, because amasingly its not the job hes being asked to do and id bet his on target and conversion rate isnt any worse than any other midfielder its just more noticeable because it doesnt happen often. i watched the game with an arsenal friend and i remember how shocked he was that didi didn't start. and how he kept on commenting that we were being punished for that decision. a view i didn't disagree with. edit - seeing as i raised the lucas shooting thing, i ask you to read my post again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No, i didn't think you were claiming he was rubbish because he can't shoot really. Its more that its an odd thing to even bring up, especially when theres still a certain group of supporters who seem to want to jump on the lad for every small thing. It was akin to claiming Riena is alright at catching and diving and stuff but ive never seen him take a good corner you know. Again because of the way we play him i really don't think we see enough of his ability in front of goal to be judging it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 No, i didn't think you were claiming he was rubbish because he can't shoot really. Its more that its an odd thing to even bring up, especially when theres still a certain group of supporters who seem to want to jump on the lad for every small thing. It was akin to claiming Riena is alright at catching and diving and stuff but ive never seen him take a good corner you know. Again because of the way we play him i really don't think we see enough of his ability in front of goal to be judging it. no matter where you play someone, their ability to shoot at goal is constant. lucas' ability is poor. we were discussing him so i raised a point about his game i didn't like while praising his primary role? so i can't raise what i think is a problem with his game in order to get other people in the thread to like him? i don't see myself as being the person that will turn another user to change a view point. and even if i did, i fail to see how what must certainly be a truth about lucas must be hidden because people are criticising him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 What does he average tho one shot at goal from 25 yards a game ? i don't have the stats but its probably not much more than that. yes that one shot a game has most of the time been a wild one over the bar, but thats true of most players, the vast majority of long range efforts dont go in statisticly. Now if he was averaging 10 shots a game and every one of them was wildly off target there would be the data to suggest hes not very good at shooting, currently its not the role he fills and generally its not part of his game we get to see enough of to judge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 When was the last time Carra had a shot on target? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standard liege! Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 When was the last time Carra had a shot on target? He's had plenty! (On his own goal!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanGLiverpool Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 When was the last time Carra had a shot on target? Noticed last season he had a fair few more that were somewhat close. Was desperately hoping one of them would sneak in somehow just for the epicness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobbo12 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Jongi saying that Lucas' shooting has been a bit off isn't exactly mauling him with criticism tbh. I think we can all accept that his finishing hasn't been one of his strong points this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Lucas has scored more goals than Carra for liverpool fun fact ok ill change the angle of attack somewhat, if you'd said you were disappointed in his goal return dispite how deep hes played i'd agree with you. Even as the deepest lying midfielder i think he should probably be chipping in more especially in the league and hopefully that will come as hes confidence grows. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Do you guys think Barcelona/Real Madrid will try sign Suarez end of current season? I can see him going as he has stated he would love to play for Barcelona prior his move to Liverpool and he is too good not to play in champions league and compete for the top trophies. Suarez is amongst the top 5 players in the world, it's not just his skills and vision but his work rate very much like tevez. Do you guys think he will start the season or will he be given a break after the copa america Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony7 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Aurelio in his five seasons at Liverpool has played just 30% of the available PL minutes, effectively missing 133 games out of 190. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_cote_kid Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Hope Suarez gets some sort of break but i have a feeling he'll be wanted for the Arsenal game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 As much as I love him, I don't think he's good enough to displace any of the first choice strikers at Barcelona or Real Madrid, nor would I expect him to settle for a place on the bench, so I don't expect him to move. I think he should have a rest, but given that Carroll hasn't slotted in particularly well yet, which is quite understandable due to his injury, then I'd be surprised if he wasn't played as much as possible. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 What does he average tho one shot at goal from 25 yards a game ? i don't have the stats but its probably not much more than that. yes that one shot a game has most of the time been a wild one over the bar, but thats true of most players, the vast majority of long range efforts dont go in statisticly.Now if he was averaging 10 shots a game and every one of them was wildly off target there would be the data to suggest hes not very good at shooting, currently its not the role he fills and generally its not part of his game we get to see enough of to judge. i think he takes more than the one shot you cite. that being said, as drobbo states it was merely a comment highlighting what i think to be one of his weaknesses. imagine that, a player played to be defensive minded doesn't have great shooting technique. i wasn't crucifying him about it. or are you saying his shooting at goal is one of his strengths? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jongi Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Luis gets player of the tournament Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 i think he takes more than the one shot you cite.that being said, as drobbo states it was merely a comment highlighting what i think to be one of his weaknesses. imagine that, a player played to be defensive minded doesn't have great shooting technique. i wasn't crucifying him about it. or are you saying his shooting at goal is one of his strengths? Nope i'm saying ive not seen enough of him in a playing where hes regularly in a position to be taking many shots a game to form an opinion one way or the other again its kind of a strange thing to pick up on all things considered thats all. Of the few goals he's scored he seems capable of hitting a ball just fine, If he was blazing 5-6 shots a game over the bar fair enough but thats not the case if anything i'd like him to be getting in the postion to be a "poor finisher" in the first place more but again thats not how hes being asked to play. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Across the 18 Premier League games that Kenny was in charge of last season, Lucas played in 17 of them, took 9 shots on goal, only 1 of which was on target. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
paperclips Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 He has also missed a few in the 6 yard box since being at Liverpool, I only noticed this as when this happens its normally last few minuets and we need a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northeu Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 so half a shot a game, like i said a strange thing to bring up seeing as its such a minor part of his game, i guess that what i had the issue with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_cote_kid Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 ****ing hell, his shooting isn't particularly good, let it go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlo116 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 Anyone seen anything of this american forward we've just signed? 18 yo Villyan Bijev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I've heard his shooting is better than Lucas', whose attacking ability has recently been called into question. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlo116 Posted July 24, 2011 Share Posted July 24, 2011 I've heard his shooting is better than Lucas', whose attacking ability has recently been called into question. And here i was thinking i could change the topic with a legitamite question. Silly me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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