Official FM2011 Match Engine Feedback Thread

[CityAndColour]

erm... all of that diatribe is almost 100% certainly down to your tactics and motivational skills.

Which tactical setting stops defenders from taking up blatantly ridiculous positions and running away from the ball?

[Loversleaper]

Two things I haven't seen posted:

1: a match played in sunny weather, even during the match in the match information box says it's sunny, but it appears to be raining.

2: pre-match meeting where you comment on a 'danger-man' always results in the player "ready for a team performance", "could fold under pressure" or "ready to put in a class act" messsage the day after the match was played.

[ac13]

Some crazy stuff happens on 11.3. For those who wonder why i say the ME hasn't improved as much as it should over the last few years check these out.

Wide man lobs the keeper and baines goes back to clear off line

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He clears it onto post and now the ball is heading back along the line and Sturridge instead of tapping it milimeters goalword somehow hits it onto the post again. (he'd moved to the right just after the screenshot so was under no real pressure)

Jagielka hits a clearance straight into the dm

By ac1387 at 2011-03-25

Baines moves back to clear the ball but instead it hits him in the back and goes straight to the striker obscured by jagielka. He'd moved forward a couple of yards so again was under no pressure. Luckily he tapped the ball into the goalkeepers midriff.

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[Lazaru5]

Proof....? And most of it has nothing to do with tactics (see bold) As for motivation, what piffle, you really think motivation from a manager is THAT important in real life?

Is it possible to kep a clean sheet? Is it possible to score a header from a cross? Is t possible for a player to get a decent rating without an assist or goal? Is it possible for a keeper to get more than a 7? Is it possible to make defenders act like defender not like headless chickens? Is it possible for winger just to be wingers an not keep cutting inside? Is it possible not to hit the post 4-5 times a game? Is it possible for my WORLD class striker playing in League 1 to not spoon 9/10 chances when clean through? Is it possible to score 1 of my 8 ccc's when the oppo scores from their 1? Is it possible a wide man formation to work? Is it possible a 3 man defence can work? Is it possible my players can play 2 games in a week? Is it possible, just because I lose 1 game my confidence isn't shot and lose 6 more? Is it possible to get the wrong team talk and still win?

You may love the game. I don't, and I normally do.

Is it possible to kep a clean sheet? - Tactics!

Is it possible to score a header from a cross? - Tactics!

Is t possible for a player to get a decent rating without an assist or goal? - Tactics!/Motivation/Fitness

Is it possible for a keeper to get more than a 7? - Tactics!

Is it possible to make defenders act like defender not like headless chickens? - Tactics!

Is it possible for winger just to be wingers an not keep cutting inside? - Tactics!

Is it possible for my WORLD class striker playing in League 1 to not spoon 9/10 chances when clean through? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible to score 1 of my 8 ccc's when the oppo scores from their 1? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible a wide man formation to work? - Tactics!

Is it possible a 3 man defence can work? - Tactics!

Is it possible my players can play 2 games in a week? - Tactics!/Training/Fitness

Is it possible, just because I lose 1 game my confidence isn't shot and lose 6 more? - Motivation/Man-Management

Is it possible to get the wrong team talk and still win? - Tactics!/Motivation

I repeat...

all of that diatribe is almost 100% certainly down to your tactics and motivational skills.

[YOUNGSTEVE]

Is it possible for my WORLD class striker playing in League 1 to not spoon 9/10 chances when clean .

In Football there are only around 10-12 world class players playing at anytime, give or take one or two. So can you explain how one is playing in League one. I would be very surprised, & if he was I feel a bit of cheating going on.

As to your comments about keeping a clean sheet, I do it regularly, & I am not even very good. Trying to score goals is a different matter. Like the other guy said, most of these things come down to tactics.

[BossAsianMafia]

Is it possible to kep a clean sheet? - Tactics!

Is it possible to score a header from a cross? - Tactics!

Is t possible for a player to get a decent rating without an assist or goal? - Tactics!/Motivation/Fitness

Is it possible for a keeper to get more than a 7? - Tactics!

Is it possible to make defenders act like defender not like headless chickens? - Tactics!

Is it possible for winger just to be wingers an not keep cutting inside? - Tactics!

Is it possible for my WORLD class striker playing in League 1 to not spoon 9/10 chances when clean through? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible to score 1 of my 8 ccc's when the oppo scores from their 1? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible a wide man formation to work? - Tactics!

Is it possible a 3 man defence can work? - Tactics!

Is it possible my players can play 2 games in a week? - Tactics!/Training/Fitness

Is it possible, just because I lose 1 game my confidence isn't shot and lose 6 more? - Motivation/Man-Management

Is it possible to get the wrong team talk and still win? - Tactics!/Motivation

I repeat...

You're going to have to do better than just putting words in colour to convince us.

[Lazaru5]

You're going to have to do better than just putting words in colour to convince us.

I fear I could give you a step-by-step guide and hold your hand through the process and you still wouldn't get it. If you are having any or all of the above problems than the majority is down to something that you are or are not doing "correctly" whether it is tactics, media interaction, player interaction, team-talks or something else is for you to discover and fix; nobody else can give you a truly accurate appraisal without actually being you, it's your team, your style, your tactics...

[dazbowski]

I fear I could give you a step-by-step guide and hold your hand through the process and you still wouldn't get it. If you are having any or all of the above problems than the majority is down to something that you are or are not doing "correctly" whether it is tactics, media interaction, player interaction, team-talks or something else is for you to discover and fix; nobody else can give you a truly accurate appraisal without actually being you, it's your team, your style, your tactics...

You must be great at FM and all, alot alot of people on here simply don't agree with you. How can it be our tactics that make our defenders run away from theirman or ball? How can they make a defender turn his back and let the ball hit him and roll into the strikers path? How come my 6ft 5 striker can't EVER score a header form a cross? Must be my tactics when any player clean through on goal form 5 to 10 yards just miss the corner flag on a regular basis. You sir are an appologist of the highest order. You treat FM like your kid and can see no wrong despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If as you say it's all my fault, how come then i'm making all these chances to score? How come apart from comical mistakes (every game) that any tactic could not solve (i've not seen a slider that tells the defender to defend like a defender not a headles chicken) I seem to play good football?

And can you explain that in EVERY previous FM bar 1 that i've had great success with most every tactic I use?

May I point you in the direction of the tactics forum? Why? Well have a look around and see how many grnuinely good tactics there are compared to others years. This imo speaks volumes.

And don't even get me started on this "The AI has figured out your formation" tosh, ye cause Barca change their formation all the time when the oppo "figures them out" don't they?

[ac13]

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So the fk taker passes it to No.12 who blasts it past the keeper. I didn't think it would matter as i went 3-0 down but I

pulled it back to 2-3 and then 3-4 so never know.

What's to blame....tactics....team talks....?

[wwfan]

May I point you in the direction of the tactics forum? Why? Well have a look around and see how many genuinely good tactics there are compared to other years. This imo speaks volumes.

This is because the ME has become increasingly robust and is not a sign of its weaknesses. There are no super-tactics because their are no holes for the user to exploit. Matches are won and lost via good and bad decisions, not because your tactic does things the AI can't cope with, allowing you to win while paying little if no attention to the match.

The ME still has flaws, but your description of it has to relate to things you are doing, as I just don't see any of this stuff on a regular basis. It might be that your tactic has some major flaws or you aren't picking good tactics for the match situations you find yourself in, it might be that you are unable to motivate players, it might be that your team is ungelled or don't respect you. All of these can result in poor play and produce a frustrating gaming experience. The key is not to simply blame the ME, but to adjust your playing style to the requirements of the game.

[dazbowski]

This is because the ME has become increasingly robust and is not a sign of its weaknesses. There are no super-tactics because their are no holes for the user to exploit. Matches are won and lost via good and bad decisions, not because your tactic does things the AI can't cope with, allowing you to win while paying little if no attention to the match.

The ME still has flaws, but your description of it has to relate to things you are doing, as I just don't see any of this stuff on a regular basis. It might be that your tactic has some major flaws or you aren't picking good tactics for the match situations you find yourself in, it might be that you are unable to motivate players, it might be that your team is ungelled or don't respect you. All of these can result in poor play and produce a frustrating gaming experience. The key is not to simply blame the ME, but to adjust your playing style to the requirements of the game.

Ok takr all my problems out except scoring. You say my tatic may be to blame. Ok, I created 18 chances in my last game, which straight away shows i'm doing something right. Out of them 18, 2 were long shots. We're now down to 16, of which 6 were tough chances. That leaves 10, 5 of them to my sole striker. Of the other 5, 3 were missed when coming on an angle for my winger. They were all one on ones and all hit straight at the keeper. 2 were midfielders breaking forward with clean chances. The first one was balooned way over the bar and the other was closer to the corner flag. The 5 chances my striker had were all ccc's 3 when staight one on ones with the keeper, 1 cross to him and one snap shot from a deflection (i've given up on crossing as it doesn't work). All these chances ended in either straight shot at the keeper, hitting the post or missing by a ridiculous amout.

My point? Well this really isn't my tactic as it is clearly creating the chances, my team ALL has good morale and no player wants to leave or dislikes me.

As for the bit about the tactics forum. You say this is a good thing? Well I disagree, if the supposedly best tacticians can't come up with tactics that work then there are problems. In real life there are only a handful of basic formations then they are tweaked to individual teams needs.

A basic plug and play formation SHOULD give you some semblence of success with only minor tweaking. Most teams in the world only alter the formation marginally. Examples of Barca, ManUtd and Arsenal show this.

If it is the case that plug and play won't work them SI should put more work into the default formations and explaining what certain sliders actually do.

What exactly does run from deep achieve, how many instuctions should you give to each player? i.e can you tell your winger to cross often, through ball often and run wit ball often? Why can't I get my striker to stay in the middle no matter what I ask of him? I really could go on but I presume you'll get what I mean.

Most people on here are not tactical geniuses or they would be REAL football managers. What they/we want is a game that can be fun without hours of tweaking only to find it still doesn't work.

In closing if you really believe it's my tactics then maybe you are right, maybe your not. May I ask for your help before I have to stop playing for good?

[Cougar2010]

My point? Well this really isn't my tactic as it is clearly creating the chances, my team ALL has good morale and no player wants to leave or dislikes me.

Tactics aren't just about creating chances.

You give orders with regard to tempo, mentality etc which can mean players rush chances rather than taking a split second to compose themselves. Every missed chance ramps up the pressure to score the next and this can be further increased with teamtalks which leads to other chances being missed.

A player's personality determines how they react, some thrive under pressure rising to the occasion while others crumble.

[Martyr1777]

This is because the ME has become increasingly robust and is not a sign of its weaknesses. There are no super-tactics because their are no holes for the user to exploit. Matches are won and lost via good and bad decisions, not because your tactic does things the AI can't cope with, allowing you to win while paying little if no attention to the match.

The ME still has flaws, but your description of it has to relate to things you are doing, as I just don't see any of this stuff on a regular basis. It might be that your tactic has some major flaws or you aren't picking good tactics for the match situations you find yourself in, it might be that you are unable to motivate players, it might be that your team is ungelled or don't respect you. All of these can result in poor play and produce a frustrating gaming experience. The key is not to simply blame the ME, but to adjust your playing style to the requirements of the game.

More robust = more complicated... more complicated = more points of failure.

This thread below i posed 4 examples of completely different ways the defensive AI completely fails and SI say they know it's a problem and are working on in. So is that enough sign of weakness for you?

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/258184-Poor-defensive-AI-positioning-particularly-FB-s

There are plenty of occasions when the ME does completely fail, it's not just tactics, motivation, or anything else. it's just the Me doesn't get the level of attention it demands and so that robust complicated system has some massive holes in it. As for no super-tactics, tell that to the people claiming things are ok as well because they can go undefeated in a season with a basic 4-4-2 setup. If you can go undefeated with a basic 4-4-2 then there are obviously issues with the ME when the most basic formation can dominate.

Hate blind uber support... better to just say 'hey, this and that a f'ed' so they have a better chance of getting the fixes they need to make the game better.

[ac13]

Ok takr all my problems out except scoring. You say my tatic may be to blame. Ok, I created 18 chances in my last game, which straight away shows i'm doing something right. Out of them 18, 2 were long shots. We're now down to 16, of which 6 were tough chances. That leaves 10, 5 of them to my sole striker. Of the other 5, 3 were missed when coming on an angle for my winger. They were all one on ones and all hit straight at the keeper. 2 were midfielders breaking forward with clean chances. The first one was balooned way over the bar and the other was closer to the corner flag. The 5 chances my striker had were all ccc's 3 when staight one on ones with the keeper, 1 cross to him and one snap shot from a deflection (i've given up on crossing as it doesn't work). All these chances ended in either straight shot at the keeper, hitting the post or missing by a ridiculous amout.

My point? Well this really isn't my tactic as it is clearly creating the chances, my team ALL has good morale and no player wants to leave or dislikes me.

As for the bit about the tactics forum. You say this is a good thing? Well I disagree, if the supposedly best tacticians can't come up with tactics that work then there are problems. In real life there are only a handful of basic formations then they are tweaked to individual teams needs.

A basic plug and play formation SHOULD give you some semblence of success with only minor tweaking. Most teams in the world only alter the formation marginally. Examples of Barca, ManUtd and Arsenal show this.

If it is the case that plug and play won't work them SI should put more work into the default formations and explaining what certain sliders actually do.

What exactly does run from deep achieve, how many instuctions should you give to each player? i.e can you tell your winger to cross often, through ball often and run wit ball often? Why can't I get my striker to stay in the middle no matter what I ask of him? I really could go on but I presume you'll get what I mean.

Most people on here are not tactical geniuses or they would be REAL football managers. What they/we want is a game that can be fun without hours of tweaking only to find it still doesn't work.

In closing if you really believe it's my tactics then maybe you are right, maybe your not. May I ask for your help before I have to stop playing for good?

I have a few suggestions but you probably won't like them. 1v1s are clearly the problem...so try getting less of them. Seems the more time the player has the more likely he'll dribble too close to the gk and blast it at him or shoot wide. You could use a slower build up or less through balls. In previous versions pacy strikers with little skill (agbonlahor/walcott) were demons and looks like they can't fix defending so need to nerf 1v1s. In real life very few goals are scored with no defenders goal side and they probably trying to get fm more like that. You can try playing wide and getting crosses in..or even just a slower build up can mean relatively easy shots from inside the area which aren't 1v1s.

Does doing this make sense....hell no but it may help with the frustration.

If you refuse to change your tactics then how about getting the players to learn ppp likes to round the keeper or lob the keeper.

Also a lot of goals are coming from set pieces in 11.3. Closer to real life but again not that fun when the difference between winning and losing often comes down to this and you never really sure if you using an exploi.

[dazbowski]

I have a few suggestions but you probably won't like them. 1v1s are clearly the problem...so try getting less of them. Seems the more time the player has the more likely he'll dribble too close to the gk and blast it at him or shoot wide. You could use a slower build up or less through balls. In previous versions pacy strikers with little skill (agbonlahor/walcott) were demons and looks like they can't fix defending so need to nerf 1v1s. In real life very few goals are scored with no defenders goal side and they probably trying to get fm more like that. You can try playing wide and getting crosses in..or even just a slower build up can mean relatively easy shots from inside the area which aren't 1v1s.

Does doing this make sense....hell no but it may help with the frustration.

If you refuse to change your tactics then how about getting the players to learn ppp likes to round the keeper or lob the keeper.

Also a lot of goals are coming from set pieces in 11.3. Closer to real life but again not that fun when the difference between winning and losing often comes down to this and you never really sure if you using an exploi.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I have tried so many variations now it's untrue. I want to play with width but feel crossing is fundamentaly broken in this and many previous FM's. Therefore you're left with the through ball method, this now seems unrealistic. Which begs the question what's left?

[Martyr1777]

Why do you think crossing is broken? I've gotten loads of assists from my wingers and crosses from my advanced forward. Headers are the easiest I've seen since 10.3 to be honest.

[dazbowski]

Why do you think crossing is broken? I've gotten loads of assists from my wingers and crosses from my advanced forward. Headers are the easiest I've seen since 10.3 to be honest.

I really don't think i've seen a headed goal from a striker yet. What instuctions are you given your wingers and striker/s? If you don't want to post on here can you pm me?

[ac13]

I really don't think i've seen a headed goal from a striker yet. What instuctions are you given your wingers and striker/s? If you don't want to post on here can you pm me?

I aim for target man. set my tallest striker as target man...or whichever striker is being marked by the defender with the worst jumping. Also use target man in the team strategy..not just as a player role.

Young target man has 19 goals from 85 shots (22%). Veteran target man 9 from 39 (23%). Saying this it's not much different from poacher who has 9 from 41 (19%) but less frustrating when the shots being missed or hit wide are less frequently ones that should be scored 60-70% of the time.

[dazbowski]

I aim for target man. set my tallest striker as target man...or whichever striker is being marked by the defender with the worst jumping. Also use target man in the team strategy..not just as a player role.

Young target man has 19 goals from 85 shots (22%). Veteran target man 9 from 39 (23%). Saying this it's not much different from poacher who has 9 from 41 (19%) but less frustrating when the shots being missed or hit wide are less frequently ones that should be scored 60-70% of the time.

So you play with a target man/poacher formation?

[Aim_Less]

AI cant mark and disarm properly

AI cant defend properly against crosses

Ai is dumb has a brick

They let strikers run from midfield with the ball and dont even try to disarm him

Strikers miss clear chances all the time

look at this:

My defender doesn't has anyone marking him and the GK gets out of the the goal for no reason

[wwfan]

Ok takr all my problems out except scoring. You say my tatic may be to blame. Ok, I created 18 chances in my last game, which straight away shows i'm doing something right. Out of them 18, 2 were long shots. We're now down to 16, of which 6 were tough chances. That leaves 10, 5 of them to my sole striker. Of the other 5, 3 were missed when coming on an angle for my winger. They were all one on ones and all hit straight at the keeper. 2 were midfielders breaking forward with clean chances. The first one was balooned way over the bar and the other was closer to the corner flag. The 5 chances my striker had were all ccc's 3 when staight one on ones with the keeper, 1 cross to him and one snap shot from a deflection (i've given up on crossing as it doesn't work). All these chances ended in either straight shot at the keeper, hitting the post or missing by a ridiculous amout.

My point? Well this really isn't my tactic as it is clearly creating the chances, my team ALL has good morale and no player wants to leave or dislikes me.

As for the bit about the tactics forum. You say this is a good thing? Well I disagree, if the supposedly best tacticians can't come up with tactics that work then there are problems. In real life there are only a handful of basic formations then they are tweaked to individual teams needs.

A basic plug and play formation SHOULD give you some semblence of success with only minor tweaking. Most teams in the world only alter the formation marginally. Examples of Barca, ManUtd and Arsenal show this.

If it is the case that plug and play won't work them SI should put more work into the default formations and explaining what certain sliders actually do.

What exactly does run from deep achieve, how many instuctions should you give to each player? i.e can you tell your winger to cross often, through ball often and run wit ball often? Why can't I get my striker to stay in the middle no matter what I ask of him? I really could go on but I presume you'll get what I mean.

Most people on here are not tactical geniuses or they would be REAL football managers. What they/we want is a game that can be fun without hours of tweaking only to find it still doesn't work.

In closing if you really believe it's my tactics then maybe you are right, maybe your not. May I ask for your help before I have to stop playing for good?

I think the core of the issue is the assumptions you are making. Firstly, don't rely purely on the match stats. Contextualise what happened by looking closely at the chances. Were they all as easy as you think? Were some on the player's weaker foot? Was the player having to do things at full pace in order to get the shot off before being caught / closed down by the defence? Was the ball fully under control? Did the keeper have time to get into a good position? All of these are reasons for one on ones to fail. SI have made a rod for their back with the CCC stat, which doesn't exist in real life. They are calculated too liberally and don't take any of the above into account.

You state that crossing doesn't work, which I just don't agree with. I score numerous goals from crosses. The issue might be that you aren't creating good crossing opportunities. Given that you have stopped trying, I'd suggest that you haven't really looked at how you are trying to create crossing opportunities. In my current save, my two starting wingers are very different players. One is a skilful, speedster, who I use as a high outlet and who gets round the back of the FB and lays the ball back from the byline. The other has fabulous technique and strength, but less speed, so he tends to cross from deeper or interplays with his FB to create space. Have you looked at this type of thing when looking at crossing?

I think your assumption about 'basic formations' is the most problematic element of your thinking. If you pay close attention to the football press, you hear stories of exactly how meticulous the top managers are in tactical preparation. They don;t simply 'tweak' their starting formation, but prepare in detail for the next opposition. For example, a recent interview with Xavi revealed how obsessive Gaurdiola is with tactical preparation, Mourinho's methods are already well known, and the English press have been praising Dalglish's different tactical approaches with relish. If you assume that a base formation will 'just work' then you are setting yourself up for a hard time. Your motivational skills will need to be honed to perfection for such an approach to pay off, as the players will have to win even when the system is not the best for the situation.

The latter part of this post suggests you are focusing heavily on individual sliders rather on the information contained within the Tactical Creator. That is fine so long as you know exactly what each slider is doing. If you do, you should still be able to make excellent tactics. If you don't, then all sorts of horror shows could follow. You are asking yourself the wrong questions. It shouldn't be 'how should I set this player's sliders' but 'is this player a winger or inside forward? Should I play him in a supporting role, so he helps out the attack and defence, or is he a purely attacking winger? If the former, should by FB be encouraged to get forward in support? If the latter, should I leave him back to cover, or should I allow him freedom to go up anyway, as he has some good attacking attributes?' Likewise, obsessing about keeping an FC central isn;t going to achieve much. No FCs ever stay central all the time. They drift across the line to look for out ball opportunities, especially when play is deep. The key is how to get him timing his runs into the box when the play is high, not tying him centrally all the time.

For me to help any further, I'd need to see a pkm of the game you described and the .tac file of your current tactic. That way I could give more specific feedback.

[Lazaru5]

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So the fk taker passes it to No.12 who blasts it past the keeper. I didn't think it would matter as i went 3-0 down but I

pulled it back to 2-3 and then 3-4 so never know.

What's to blame....tactics....team talks....?

Definitely tactics (or at least the set-piece instructions within them) you haven't enough men marking players at defensive free-kicks and as a result the opposition have LOTS of options...

[Lazaru5]

I fear I could give you a step-by-step guide and hold your hand through the process and you still wouldn't get it. If you are having any or all of the above problems than the majority is down to something that you are or are not doing "correctly" whether it is tactics, media interaction, player interaction, team-talks or something else is for you to discover and fix; nobody else can give you a truly accurate appraisal without actually being you, it's your team, your style, your tactics...

You must be great at FM and all, alot alot of people on here simply don't agree with you. How can it be our tactics that make our defenders run away from theirman or ball? How can they make a defender turn his back and let the ball hit him and roll into the strikers path? How come my 6ft 5 striker can't EVER score a header form a cross? Must be my tactics when any player clean through on goal form 5 to 10 yards just miss the corner flag on a regular basis. You sir are an appologist of the highest order. You treat FM like your kid and can see no wrong despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

If as you say it's all my fault, how come then i'm making all these chances to score? How come apart from comical mistakes (every game) that any tactic could not solve (i've not seen a slider that tells the defender to defend like a defender not a headles chicken) I seem to play good football?

And can you explain that in EVERY previous FM bar 1 that i've had great success with most every tactic I use?

May I point you in the direction of the tactics forum? Why? Well have a look around and see how many grnuinely good tactics there are compared to others years. This imo speaks volumes.

And don't even get me started on this "The AI has figured out your formation" tosh, ye cause Barca change their formation all the time when the oppo "figures them out" don't they?

You sir are too hooked up on tactics... you are forgetting that the game is one of 'management' - i.e. of 'managing' a group of players. That doesn't just mean creating a set of tactics and a bunch of training schedules and clicking continue... You have to 'manage' your players, whether directly (private chat, individual team-talk, media comment, etc) or indirectly (media comments, team-talks, etc). You have to use the same tools to 'motivate' your players too. And finally, you also have to use the same tools to take the 'pressure' off your players. If you can manage to do this successfully and your team are capable and your tactics are solid then you will not be so negative in your opinion of the game.

Your striker is missing his shots for one of the following reasons:

You have put too much pressure on him

The opposition manager has put too much pressure on him ("player X must be stopped" and such)

The opposition manager has put too much pressure on him and you have failed to relax him

He is low on confidence

He's in a poor run of form

He's tired

He's jaded

He's injured

<add your own>

How can they make a defender turn his back and let the ball hit him and roll into the strikers path?

+1 I have also encountered this bug in the ME

I have no problems with crossing or scoring from them, headed or otherwise. In fact my left-winger has scored 3 goals, all from crosses and two of them were headers. The comical thing is, he's 5'5"...

Notice the number of assists too, my wingers are plentiful providers.

As for your tactics and why they "don't work" I guess that must be down to the superior ME. You suggest I go and view the tactics forum and see the number of good tactics there are, I don't think I'll bother. My experience of "downloaded tactics" is miserable, it seems to me that everyone's a tactical genius when no-one really is. The few that I've tried, that everyone else has given rave reviews to, have been dire... the balance and shape of the team was 'off' a little... (or a lot).

I am using a tactic that I created for FM09 ported into FM11. Yes it's a classic tactic, but I had great success with it on 09 and whilst 10 was a disappointment it was not because of the tactic entirely, the match engine also played it's part (and I quit FM10 before Xmas and went back to my 09 save..). The port into FM11 has been very pleasing since 11.3 was released I was always unhappy with the tactic but couldn't solve the issue I had. The 11.3 ME is the solution, the tactic is exactly the same as always but now it "works" - perfectly! Sadly, my motivation is still prone to the odd mishap so we lose or draw games that we should perhaps have won... c'est la vie.

[ac13]

So you play with a target man/poacher formation?

I have 4 strikers. 2 i play as target men, one as poacher and one as advanced forward if he's playing with a target man or deep forward if with a poacher. ...so it depends who's fit. It would probably make sense to look at the defender and use the quicker ones vs the big defenders and the smaller against the slower ones but i'm a bit lazy.

[upthetoon]

AI cant mark and disarm properly

AI cant defend properly against crosses

Ai is dumb has a brick

They let strikers run from midfield with the ball and dont even try to disarm him

Strikers miss clear chances all the time

look at this:

My defender doesn't has anyone marking him and the GK gets out of the the goal for no reason

i wonder why no one has replied to your posts. maybe they run out of excuses to defend the ME.

[Cougar2010]

i wonder why no one has replied to your posts. maybe they run out of excuses to defend the ME.

Or maybe its because they know it would be like talking to a brick wall, anything they say won't be taken on board and just deemed to be "an excuse"

Take a look at the example he gives for instance - Its a corner, the striker loses his man and sticks the ball in the net, as simple as that. Yet its been brought up on here as an example of a poor ME??

A couple of weeks ago Robert Huth scored a free header from a Delap long throw when he lost his marker in the FA Cup. If that had happened in FM you would have kicked up the same sort of fuss about how that never happens in RL

[dazbowski]

deleted, no longer relevant.

[milnerpoint]

Or maybe its because they know it would be like talking to a brick wall, anything they say won't be taken on board and just deemed to be "an excuse"

Take a look at the example he gives for instance - Its a corner, the striker loses his man and sticks the ball in the net, as simple as that. Yet its been brought up on here as an example of a poor ME??

A couple of weeks ago Robert Huth scored a free header from a Delap long throw when he lost his marker in the FA Cup. If that had happened in FM you would have kicked up the same sort of fuss about how that never happens in RL

Exactly, its pointless in most cases because people do not want explanations or possibilities for why it happened, they want assurances that its a problem with the game and nothing else.

[wwfan]

dazbowski was kind enough to forward me his tactic. Here is a rough analysis.

The reason his FC is getting a lot of one on ones but seeing them all saved is a result of the overall system he is playing. It is the Mourinho 4-5-1, but customised. The wingers are both being told to stay deeper (run from deep rarely, move into channels and play through balls often. The two DCs are also playing TBs mixed. Both FBs are on Defend duties. The DMC is an Anchor Man, the MCL an Advanced playmaker and the MCR a Ballwinning Midfielder. Both the MCs are on Run from Deep Mixed, which will also stop them getting ahead of the ball often enough to support the FC.

What this means is that all the moves are being channeled down the centre with only one target, the lone FC. The opposition defence only has to stay tight to / target him and most of his chances will be hurried / on the wrong foot. Not only that, but the crosses are being hit to the far post instead of central, which doesn't make sense as the wingers aren't advancing. This means the great majority will go over his head.

The channeled play is further accentuated by the FBs staying back. Because they stay with the d-line at all times, they never make the extra man in midfield and open up passing angles in the final third. It also means that the d-line can be too deep when contending with the counter as the FBs are never going to be high enough to get in an early challenge, which allows the ball carrier to run at them before team mates can get back in support.

Solution:

1: Have the lone FC playing a deeper support role and the wingers higher attacking ones to give the playmaker more people / angles to aim at.

2: Consider swapping the ball winner with a midfielder on attack duty who can also get ahead of the ball and produce an extra target.

3: Have the FBs at least on auto duty so they can support midfield moves. If you want one winger to stay deeper, consider having his FB on attack duty to get past him on the overlap.

4: Kill the TBs from the DCs. They will stop the ball from getting to the playmaker and are very likely to lose possession.

5: Use the strategy shouts to get the team playing more riskily / cautiously depending on scoreline. Remember, these shouts also change auto player duties, so they can really change the shape of the team if you have key players on auto duties.

[dazbowski]

Will look into this asap, when I amend the tactic i will send it to you again if you are open to that?

thanks again

Did you notice anything defensively? I am conceeding from the wings but mostly through balls.

[Aim_Less]

its hopeless , ME is perfect for this guys , sure in real life the GK gets out of goal for no reason at all during a corner kick , we sure see in real life a slow striker going with the ball from midfield and score a goal with 4 defenders has escort

nice boot licking

[wwfan]

Will look into this asap, when I amend the tactic i will send it to you again if you are open to that?

thanks again

Did you notice anything defensively? I am conceeding from the wings but mostly through balls.

The FBs being on a defend duty in a reasonably aggressive system will see a lot of disconnect between them and the midfield. This will open space on the wings and enable wide players to have time and space to pick their passes through your d-line.

its hopeless , ME is perfect for this guys , sure in real life the GK gets out of goal for no reason at all during a corner kick , we sure see in real life a slow striker going with the ball from midfield and score a goal with 4 defenders has escort

nice boot licking

One mistake from a corner does not make the ME horrendously broken. Why didn't you have anyone on the near post. He'd have headed the ball clear. It looks to me like your GK read the ball going over the near post players head and stepped out to claim it only to be embarrassed when he flicked it to the unguarded near post.

Nobody has said the ME is perfect, just that it is not completely broken. As the discussion with dabowski is illustrating, tactical structure can be the cause. The logic structuring the AI's tactics is better than his own, meaning his own team is likely to do some weird things, whereas the AI players aren't. His structure will result in a lot of channelled one on ones, many of which will be saved as the striker is isolated. The AI doesn't set up like that and will play a far more holistic game.

[R0ca]

- Defenders never ever Shepperd the ball out of play

- Players attempt to kick it off other players far too often in all areas weather to gain a throw-in or a corner

- Not Enough players show for the ball especially apparent in defensive positions (you never see anyone come deep to collect the ball from the defense)

- Long shots need Tweaking so more go on target but pose no threat.

- Too often players are caught offside when either playing a 1-2 at a throwing for example, or they are just too slow getting back in a onside position after just taking a corner

- Heading is poor, too many needless throw's in and corners conceded from poor heading.

- Not enough interceptions, i don't recall ever seeing anyone in the game calmly step out intercept a loose pass and lay it off, they always boot it out of play

-Not enough back passes, far too many players just lump the ball into touch regardless of how high there composure is

[Lazaru5]

- Defenders never ever Shepperd the ball out of play

- Players attempt to kick it off other players far too often in all areas weather to gain a throw-in or a corner

- Not Enough players show for the ball especially apparent in defensive positions (you never see anyone come deep to collect the ball from the defense)

- Long shots need Tweaking so more go on target but pose no threat.

- Too often players are caught offside when either playing a 1-2 at a throwing for example, or they are just too slow getting back in a onside position after just taking a corner

This... especially the trying to buy bloody throw-ins and corners... in your own half? in line with your penalty area? when you're under pressure? C'mon...

[Fabio MVP]

Bumping this to see people's opinion on what they would like to be improved for FM 2012 as I find ME to be the most important part of the game.

[Lazaru5]

has anybody else noticed how the left-backs run the ball out of play/turn out of play when receiving a throw-in, etc as though they don't realise the touchline is there? It happens to both human and AI (or it does on my game) and it's only the left-back that does it...

[Fabio MVP]

When it comes to full back, I'm annoyed with their willingness NOT to put in a cross even when that's their pretty much the only option or when they're in perfect position to do so.

[themadsheep2001]

When it comes to full back, I'm annoyed with their willingness NOT to put in a cross even when that's their pretty much the only option or when they're in perfect position to do so.

this.

Also a distinct lack of cut backs across the area, especially galling when passer and reciever are in great positions

[champion_2]

- pace is too much over-rated in ME especially for strikers.

- Big strong slow Strikers are useless

- Only Strikers and wingers are scoring goals from open play, it's rare for CMs to score even when using a lone striker formation.

- hard to score from crosses except wingers at far post even if they are short usually manage to head it goal.

- 442 is almost the best formation in attack and defense & 451 is the worst in both!! So Barcelona with their 433(451) in game suck with Guardiola

- very few goals from direct FKs and too many from corners

[Keyzer Soze]

- Only Strikers and wingers are scoring goals from open play, it's rare for CMs to score even when using a lone striker formation.

I usually play with a 451 formation, and my 2 CM usually scores combined 30 goals/season

[champion_2]

I usually play with a 451 formation, and my 2 CM usually scores combined 30 goals/season

Unbelievable!! Send me your tactic please in a PM.

[Fabio MVP]

this.

Also a distinct lack of cut backs across the area, especially galling when passer and reciever are in great positions

I agree. It's quite common in football now and I think we should see more of it.

- pace is too much over-rated in ME especially for strikers.

It's always been that way. And not just for strikers.

- Big strong slow Strikers are useless

Not really. They make really good supportive players for me.

- Only Strikers and wingers are scoring goals from open play, it's rare for CMs to score even when using a lone striker formation.

I agree with this. Midfielders except for winger chip in with very few goals.

- hard to score from crosses except wingers at far post even if they are short usually manage to head it goal.

Seconded. Really strange for my winger to cross all over another side just for my other winger to head it home an not my strikers. I reckon there could be a bit more goals from crosses.

- 442 is almost the best formation in attack and defense & 451 is the worst in both!! So Barcelona with their 433(451) in game suck with Guardiola

I don't know about 4-5-1 and 4-3-3 as I always play 4-4-2 with AMR & AML and I'm successful with it.

- very few goals from direct FKs and too many from corners

Agreed again. There could be a bit more goals form free kicks, but corners are just about right if there weren't exploits.

As per bolded.

[themadsheep2001]

I agree. It's quite common in football now and I think we should see more of it.

As per bolded.

definitely possible to get your CM scoring goals, Hamsik scored 22 and Javi Martinez 11 for me

[Fabio MVP]

definitely possible to get your CM scoring goals, Hamsik scored 22 and Javi Martinez 11 for me

I didn't say it's not possible did I? I only said that they don't tend to score as much as they score IRL. I never see Gerrard and/or Lampard score 15-20 in FM while they do it quite regularly IRL

[themadsheep2001]

I didn't say it's not possible did I? I only said that they don't tend to score as much as they score IRL. I never see Gerrard and/or Lampard score 15-20 in FM while they do it quite regularly IRL

I see the AI do it fairly regularly too, not sure there is too much of an issue me. But maybe thats just my view on it

[milnerpoint]

I didn't say it's not possible did I? I only said that they don't tend to score as much as they score IRL. I never see Gerrard and/or Lampard score 15-20 in FM while they do it quite regularly IRL

Not really regularly, Lampard hasnt done it for a few seasons, neither has Gerrard, yes, for a couple of seasons both were banging them in, but its hardly the norm for a midfielder in the modern game. Take Lampard's and Gerrard's pens away from them and i bet they would struggle to be over 10 goals each season they have broken double figures.

[Fabio MVP]

Fair enough guys, but still IMHO midfielder should be scoring more goals. Wingers do it regularly and they assists regularly too and so do midfielders, but midfielders could chip in with a couple of more goals.

Still far more important would be to solve fullback's crossing. They have lots of chances, but they just won't cross even they have Crossing on Often.

[Bradley21]

1) Fix heading from crosses. The majority of headed goals come from wingers regardless of height/jumping/heading ability. Very rarely do strikers with high jumping/strength/anticipation/heading...etc even connect with a cross let alone score them.

2) Cut-backs need to be improved. They dont happen often enough even when its glaringly obvious its the right choice to make.

3) Fullbacks and crossing. Even with crossing set to maximum fullbacks dont cross as often as they should, and if they do its often played in a little too late.

Thats the 3 things that irritate me the most about the current engine.

[Fabio MVP]

I agree with all three things TBH.

[shwan]

Is it possible to kep a clean sheet? - Tactics!

Is it possible to score a header from a cross? - Tactics!

Is t possible for a player to get a decent rating without an assist or goal? - Tactics!/Motivation/Fitness

Is it possible for a keeper to get more than a 7? - Tactics!

Is it possible to make defenders act like defender not like headless chickens? - Tactics!

Is it possible for winger just to be wingers an not keep cutting inside? - Tactics!

Is it possible for my WORLD class striker playing in League 1 to not spoon 9/10 chances when clean through? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible to score 1 of my 8 ccc's when the oppo scores from their 1? - Tactics!/Motivation

Is it possible a wide man formation to work? - Tactics!

Is it possible a 3 man defence can work? - Tactics!

Is it possible my players can play 2 games in a week? - Tactics!/Training/Fitness

Is it possible, just because I lose 1 game my confidence isn't shot and lose 6 more? - Motivation/Man-Management

Is it possible to get the wrong team talk and still win? - Tactics!/Motivation

I repeat...

tbh your answer frustrated me .. sound like Arsen Wenger .. is everyone else fault just not me or my system.

yes sure the guy could had improved his case with some tactical and motivation strategies.

let us be realistic .. i played with Crystal palace who are fighting against relegation and we lost 2-1 in very very close game with top of the league and moral collapsed even though am in top half of league.. even if i have must stupid assistant manager he can't make that worst IRL .. yes we can twick and play around it.. but are we searching realism or just how to win games in FM cheating the system?

what bloody player rating (with no goal or assist) had to do with Tactics!/Motivation/Fitness !!? he is referring that game rate players highly if they have assist or goals .. i can understand if you told him, yes IRL many TV panels that is how rate players, which is ok as explanation .. but to give Tactics!/Motivation/Fitness as an answer is just made reading your comments irritating, unhelpful and repetitive.

there is difference between winning games in FM and aiming realism, i don't think you grasped that really from the guy Qs

FM is best game in market, but no where near perfection yet