Group C - England vs Algeria: ITV1 at 19:30

[Woodmansee]

Swp has been crap.

[ajw10]

do people not watch Defoe at all?

[Woodmansee]

do people not watch Defoe at all?

Yea why do you ask?

[Drunk Beware]

Swp has been crap.

He was one of the few players that seemed to put any effort in.

[Woodmansee]

He was one of the few players that seemed to put any effort in.

I thought he was crap the last game out on the left, and not that good on the right this game. Not many if any people in this and the other thread was happy when swp came on.

Lampard has been crap also but its the whole club thing with him..

[beffrey]

The whole club thing?

Are you referring to stats like he and Drogba scoring more together last season than 12 Premier League teams scored in total?

It's so hard to believe Lampard can disappoint for England when just a couple of years ago Engalnd "fans" were booing him.

[goon]

Wasn't aware that anyone was blaming him, just that he's not very good.

He might not have been blamed but he certainly got the large majority of the critisism dispite others in the team being far worse than him. Delighted he's not a part of this rubbish now.

Oh, I take it all back re Heskey, he's finally shown a bit of flair

[roseboy64]

England 0-0 Algeria: shocking display from Capello’s players

Calls for Carrick and Cole to play in a 4-2-3-1.

[roseboy64]

BTW Ashley Cole was wasted. More than once he had space on the left to run into but England tried to play through the middle. Width then only came from the right.

[jmr]

The fact we can't pass the ball is disgusting, been a problem for a while now and I don't know what we can do about it, our technique is a joke when you compare it to smaller nations like Mexico who can keep a ball far better than we can.

[SeanNUFC]

Once again this group of England players proved they are big game bottlers. Should've taken Theo - he's proven he raises his game for the big matches.

LOL Come on man, wtf? Walcott would improve nothing, if anything we should've taken adam johnson.

[SeanNUFC]

not that he would get a chance mind as gerrard would hog his place in the midfield, hmmm maybe thats why johnson wasnt selected....

[outlander]

Just realised Slovenia are the ones that knocked out Russia in the playoff... they parked the bus pretty well that night :/

Yep, Guus Hiddink (at the time Coach of Russia in the play off game) predicted that Slovenia would advance to the next round before the WC, he is getting pretty close with the prediction.

A bit late but still, it wasn't Slovenia that knocked Russia in play off. Slovenia qualified without play offs as far as I know.

[Low_Flying_Seagull]

A bit late but still, it wasn't Slovenia that knocked Russia in play off. Slovenia qualified without play offs as far as I know.

No, it was....

[outlander]

No, it was....

It looks like it indeed. For the last months I thought it was Slovakia

Makes it even sadder for us to lose to Slovenia. They absolutely outplayed us in the second leg though, so I can easily see them not just park the bus against England but to actually win the match.

[SeanNUFC]

A bit late but still, it wasn't Slovenia that knocked Russia in play off. Slovenia qualified without play offs as far as I know.

You have a poor memory.

[NICK_GIFF]

Really am not understanding lots of people jumping on the Capello hate bandwagon. He's probably one of the greatest managers of all time ffs and in qualifying we generally saw an improvement in our performances. Whoever it was that said (on the last page) Capello was the wrong man for getting us to keep possession is clearly insane - there is no-one better ffs except for Mourinho perhaps.

Also not understanding why people are lumping Gerrard together with Rooney and Lampard as the worst players on the pitch. As most of you know, I normally despise him (especially when he's in an England shirt) but yesterday I thought he was our only player who looked like doing something (before Defore came on) and who was actually trying. He was nowhere near as bad as the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Johnson.

Finally, I think Rooney was wrong to say what he did. I often think fans shouldnt boo players after a defeat (especially if they've played well or at least been trying) but last night's performance was so insipid, and against one of the worst teams at the WC to boot, that the fans there had every right to boo. Our performance last night was unacceptable and the players have to know. Hopefully Rooney just said it in the heat of the moment, regrets it, will apologise and then all will be forgiven.

[The Governor]

Really am not understanding lots of people jumping on the Capello hate bandwagon. He's probably one of the greatest managers of all time ffs and in qualifying we generally saw an improvement in our performances. Whoever it was that said (on the last page) Capello was the wrong man for getting us to keep possession is clearly insane - there is no-one better ffs except for Mourinho perhaps.

Also not understanding why people are lumping Gerrard together with Rooney and Lampard as the worst players on the pitch. As most of you know, I normally despise him (especially when he's in an England shirt) but yesterday I thought he was our only player who looked like doing something (before Defore came on) and who was actually trying. He was nowhere near as bad as the likes of Rooney, Lampard and Johnson.

Finally, I think Rooney was wrong to say what he did. I often think fans shouldnt boo players after a defeat (especially if they've played well or at least been trying) but last night's performance was so insipid, and against one of the worst teams at the WC to boot, that the fans there had every right to boo. Our performance last night was unacceptable and the players have to know. Hopefully Rooney just said it in the heat of the moment, regrets it, will apologise and then all will be forgiven.

At last, a bit of common sense prevails. Should have known it would come from someone as level-headed as Nick. Capello is a superb coach and man-manager.

You look down that team last night and the problems were straight down the spine: Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Terry - all played, possibly, their worst games for England. Normally you can get away with one, perhaps two, of your best players being out of sorts. We had all four, plus a few others (Johnson springs to mind). So we were never going to win except via a fluke goal. I am sure the lazy, cliched hacks such as Oliver Kay and Henry Winter will pin it all on Capello creating a camp of fear, or whatever catchphrase they can think up whilst on the free Castles. But these players should be able to do something about this, mentally and physically. If they cannot raise their game on Wednesday, Capello will pick up the flak from the press. But, more than anything else, it should prove to fans, press and everyone else that England are no more than a bubbling under Top 10 team in the world, who cannot rise to the big occasion. Now might be a time for certain people to accept this.

One thing about the Rooney incident. Perhaps his reaction last night will be the fire to get a good, footballing reaction from him now.

[bell]

I thought Johnson was one of our best players last night. He actually tried to give us some extra width (unlike Cole) and defended fairly well too.

But other than that I agree with you.

[SeanNUFC]

Johnson hasn't let us down so far in defence. Don't understand the hate for him.

[The Governor]

I thought Johnson was one of our best players last night. He actually tried to give us some extra width (unlike Cole) and defended fairly well too.

But other than that I agree with you.

I just felt he left himself exposed more often than not. But then against Belhadj, who is one of the quickest, he was always going to have his work cut out. Problems brewed because those ahead of him were going AWOL, leaving him exposed. So yeah, you have a point to an extent.

Is it really the worst any of you have seen England play? Thinking back in time, it wasn't worse than v Morocco in 1986. Ooooh, symmetry there. North African nation, World Cup, 0-0 draw, Match on a Friday...

[Razzler]

I despair, I just totally despair. There's nothing wrong with Capello, the players have qualified with a similar system, they're not bad players, they all play top level football under pressure and contribute in huge games against clubs made up of the best players from around the world in other countries and our own.

Why can we not do the simple, simple things? From the first minute that wasn't right. Everyone slagged off the American performance? I dream of the American performance, ffs. At least we put pressure on the ball, we created chances, compared to other 'big team' performances it really wasn't sobad at all, thought it was harsh.

This .... this pile of **** takes abject to a whole other level. I honestly cannot remember an England performance as bad as that. Yeah, the sun did the whole E.A.S.Y. thing but bloody hell, this is the easiest group we've ever had, doesn't mean you take others for granted but I don't think we did that either.

Thank feck Algeria are so toothless otherwise we'd have been in trouble. At least the Yanks had some fight when they went 2-0 to Slovenia. There is something fundementally wrong with players playing for England rooted deep, deep in the psyche and no one can cure it. They were absolutely terrified out there, every single player avoiding taking responsibility as much as possible.

Capello was going insane on the touchline "that's not the England I know" - with all due respect Fabio, we've known them a lot longer than you

We did not close down, why? I have no idea. The players are being bellowed at. We played so incredibly slowly, why? The players are being bellowed at from the sidelines.

Every single pass was take a touch, and another and then play it simple, we desperately needed to inject some pace into our passing, try it, it makes a huge difference. Lennon got the ball once with 1 defender in front of him, he cut inside, spaces opened up and then he gave it simple to Gerrard on scuffed a shot.

There were 2 incidences of players breaking through on the corner of the box, Gerrard and Heskey I think, why not freaking shoot?! They both went for the 'bottlers ball' of centre it, it's such a cop out, no one wanted the responsibility just a throw the arms up "Ah, I passed it but it just missed out" ... No, you either take the shot or you put something on the ball, fizz it in, not this 'neither here nor there' pass into the middle.

That was the whole game, players bottling responsiblity, play the simple ball, play it slow "I did my bit". Rooney's touch was appalling, it was playground stuff. We know he's not a bad player so wtf is going on? He was sluggish.

I am sick of this 'tired' excuse, yes, everyone has had a long hard season, everyone has players like that, you've had some rest and then a training camp where very expensive equipment and coaches are making sure you're feeling at your best to play.

It's a 'cold' World Cup so everyone can stop puffing and wheezing like a fat kid with a note from matron, what do we need, ****ing snow now?

This disease will never be cured, the cure is 'grow some ****ing bollocks' but pressure, pressure, pressure, they just cannot deal with any kind of pressure. Maybe after qualifiying all sorts of people picking us as contenders, didn't see it against the Yanks though, our usual drop off and hand back initiative but didn't see much fear.

We've just seen the Yanks draw, we know a win can get control of the group back for us ... and then this abysmal display.

We may now beat Slovenia, cause that's what we do, it's typically 'backs to the wall' enough for us to pull something out but does it matter, 1st or 2nd in this group, Germany or amble through the next to a 1/4 final with Argentina ... does it matter what happens we just do not have the strength and you can't teach that.

[Blackbag]

i don't get all the rooney hate, he has had very little service from the midfield. I personally think its time to drop either lampard or gerrard.

[Razzler]

I am also not a fan of the boo-ing your own players but jeez, that was a different scenario, that was appalling. Probably Rooney's frustrations, maybe he'll regret saying it but we're back to before Capello took over, players not wanting to play for England but hey, the 30,000 or so fans in the ground were not 'home fans' as he said, they're following England, they weren't boo-ing from the start either, they don't want to boo, they want to win or at least see a performance, the boo-ing is their frustration, they can't shout at the ref or kick someone.

It's just another little excuse that's always in the back of the player's minds "even our own fans boo" well, seriously, after that, would you be surprised, put yourself on the terraces and watch a team that cannot pass the ball and see what you think.

There may be no excuses for boo-ing but there's no excuses for a performance like that either so call it even

Rubbish, just so utterly rubbish that it's beyond comprehension

[Razzler]

i don't get all the rooney hate, he has had very little service from the midfield. I personally think its time to drop either lampard or gerrard.

He did not control the ball once, from the beginning he looked woefully off the pace, you were willing him to get involved but whenever the ball went anywhere near him it just pinged off his foot 10 yards, totally inexplicable

[GG17]

Think the team for Wednesday should include Carrick and Cole. Also think we should take the shackles of two or 3 players and let them roam a little, allowing some movement, space and flair.

Johnson Terry Dawson Cole

Carrick Lampard Barry

Cole Gerrard

Rooney

IMO, this would allow Lampard to feel more comfortable knowing Carrick and Barry are sitting behind him, so he can start arriving late into the box like he does for Chelsea. Carricks inclusion would introduce someone who can actually pass the football patiently. Even though his form is shocking for United, what he can bring to the team is needed imo. Cole also encourages some patient football and also gives us someone on the ball who is willing to travel with the ball with a bit of confidence. It would allow Gerrard to play centrally and play with a freedom that he so dearly craves and would allow Rooney to be our focal point of attack, which we all know is our only hope.

Ofcourse this won't happen and we'll stick to something rigid but oh well. Bring on August 7th!

[Razzler]

I have no idea why Joe Cole didn't come on last night. If ever we needed a player that wasn't terrified of the ball it was last night, someone to actually carry it and maybe, you know, pass it.

I would have brought him on maybe 10 minutes into the 2nd half, maximum. SWP again? I know he's fast but ffs, he had one run, got brought down and that was all we saw of him for the rest of the game

[NICK_GIFF]

I am also not a fan of the boo-ing your own players but jeez, that was a different scenario, that was appalling. Probably Rooney's frustrations, maybe he'll regret saying it but we're back to before Capello took over, players not wanting to play for England but hey, the 30,000 or so fans in the ground were not 'home fans' as he said, they're following England, they weren't boo-ing from the start either, they don't want to boo, they want to win or at least see a performance, the boo-ing is their frustration, they can't shout at the ref or kick someone.

It's just another little excuse that's always in the back of the player's minds "even our own fans boo" well, seriously, after that, would you be surprised, put yourself on the terraces and watch a team that cannot pass the ball and see what you think.

There may be no excuses for boo-ing but there's no excuses for a performance like that either so call it even

Rubbish, just so utterly rubbish that it's beyond comprehension

I agree totally with all of that.

[Jaynm]

I'm just going to sum up what I saw last night after calming down a bit:

First of all, Heskey was for me, the shadow of the player that looked dangerous against the USA, caught in possession far too often and generally every time he flicked the ball on the second ball would be picked up by an Algeria player, blame Heskey, blame the other attackers, whatever you wish.

Rooney, yet again not good enough... For all his endeavour he just isn't doing it at the World Cup when it matters most and it's simply down to the fact that we're playing our BEST player in a system that he's not used too, why not play him in a system that allowed him to score 30 odd goals last season? Especially when it's a system that suits our team the best?

Next game for me we MUST go 4-5-1/4-3-3 whatever you call it with Barry holding, Gerrard and Lampard in the middle, Lennon and JOE COLE on the flanks and Rooney upfront, it has to be done.

I'm really, really worried now, Slovenia are a good side and they could very well beat us, but I'm still confident of progressing and I'm praying we improve because if we don't, even if we sneak through the group, we'll get demolished in the latter stages.

[Razzler]

I think I would prefer to have Rooney playing as a '1' but seeing as we've not gone with that before and Capello seems to like 2 up top I doubt it will happen. We really need to be looking at that for the next Qualifying with Heskey probably dropping out of the squad.

The only reason we really have Heskey there is cause of our inability to play the ball along the ground, we can't play smaller players up front as other nations can cause at some point we'll revert to hitting long balls and it won't stick.

I can't see Capello totally changing things for the last game, especially when Rooney did play well and score goals with a partner alongside him. It's not rocket science really

[NICK_GIFF]

Surely if Rooney is so good then he'd be able to perform well no matter what the system was?

It's not like he was asked to play left back ffs.

[Razzler]

He's also performed great in qualifying with someone up alongside him, he keeps dropping deeper and deeper to look for the ball which isn't his problem, it's other player's problem.

When he did get the ball I have never him so off the pace. That injury against Bayern, he's just not been right since

[Jaynm]

****ing Germans

[Razzler]

"I remember when I started as England manager, I saw the same things when we played at Wembley.I hope, when we play the next game, we forget this performance and we forget to play with fear and without confidence. It's incredible, the mistakes of the players. When they can't control the ball or miss easy passes ... we missed everything. This is incredible given the level of the England players. The pressure is so big because the performance of the players was not as I know."

Quote from Capello from article in the Guardian.

Aside from all the rubbish about 'expectation' for the 1,000,000th time he also cannot understand why we couldn't do simple things.

[The Governor]

i don't get all the rooney hate, he has had very little service from the midfield. I personally think its time to drop either lampard or gerrard.

No and Yes. He offered very little movement at all (watch the match again; I did and boy was it difficult!), to the point where I thought he was carrying an injury problem throughout the match. He was poor.

Totally agree with you re. Lampard and Gerrard. One - or both - has to go. I say bench Lampard; he could be a useful impact sub late on in a match. Gerrard - despite being a disappointing captain and player of late (certainly not the man he is big-upped by the press. Their love for him borders on infatuation and stalking) - should start in the middle. Cole on the left, Barry holding and Defoe opening with Rooney. Pace can upset the Slovenians.

[The Governor]

Gavin Hamilton at World Soccer clutching at straws, in my opinion: http://worldcup2010.worldsoccer.com/blogs/gavin-hamilton-capellos-england-are-all-stressed-out/

Blaming any unrest on Scholes/Capello Index is ridiculous. Does he not actually get the gist of the Capello Index?

[Rhino]

I was just looking at http://www.fifa.com/live/competitions/worldcup/matchday=8/day=1/match=300061464/index.html

We had 48% possession and they had 52%

Against Algeria ffs

We can't pass and keep hold of the ball.

Surprisingly, I agree with this (apart from the "Against Algeria ffs" bit).

Algeria, as has been the weakers teams' wont to do at this World Cup, camped in the centre of defence very effectively, and England lacked the guile to get through them. They either need a spark of creativity, or be able to push the ball around the pitch at pace and stretch the Algerians. Both, preferably.

At the moment it doesn't look they're capable of either.

[GG17]

Disagree. If it comes down to dropping Gerrard or Lampard i'd rather see Gerrard dropped. His pass rate is worse than Lampards, he's inability to be disciplined would still be a problem in centre midfield. His form is nowhere near as good, and also i'd like to point out he's rarely played CM for Liverpool in the last season, so i'd argue that is his natural position. He needs to play off Rooney, but if were dropping one, i'd rather see him go.

[Razzler]

****ing Germans

We can't even go into that game expecting anything really, any expectation we have is out of the window. How about that for 'less pressure' players?!

I always say it doesn't matter how you qualify, it's what happens at the tournament that matters. England should always qualify, the number of groups in Europes and spread of seeded teams means, bloody hell, we should be top 2, ffs.

At the tournament is where Managers earn their bread and butter and you look at the players. We have good players, perhaps not enourmous strength in depth but good players. Ashley Cole can make a claim for one of the best left-backs in the world, Terry plays for one of Europe's top teams as does Johnson.

Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney ... all good, good players. Argentina were a mess but they're here and they have good players, they will go far.

I think with a good draw (check) and a bit of luck and form you never know. Get yourself to the 1/4 finals and then see how it is from there. We had one of the best draws ever and a fantastic path to the 1/4 finals (considering it's a tournament) ... tricky 2nd round but seeded to meet France in the 1/4 finals ... we'll take that. What, France are out, great!

Drew with the Yanks, damn, could come down to goal difference now ... what, Yanks drew, great, we beat Algeria and the group is in our hands .. we have seemingly had a bunch of breaks but we keep throwing it away.

Add to this our group games and 2nd round in the last World Cup ... it's the tournaments, we just cannot do it, cannot handle it. I don't even think the press have been going mad this time round compared to previous tournaments but ... *sigh* wtf

[Rhino]

Oh, and for all you idiots claiming that Rooney shouldn't start, you're all idiots.

He's clearly the best player in the England squad, and by a country mile too. If he's under-performing, then it's up to Capello to get the best out of him, whether it's a boot up the arse or putting out a formation that allows Rooney to play to his strengths.

[Razzler]

I am amazed we had 48% when you look at the ease in which they retained the ball. It's what you do with it, they were utterly toothless (thankfully) but when we had that 48% we did feck all.

We're never gonna have 55-60% of possession, we always give the ball away, always try to hit the pass so the opposition is always gonna see a fair amount of the ball against us.

Players always talk about retaining the ball yet time after time they don't do it. If you all know this WHY don't you do it! It's frustrating and confusing. It's one thing when players aren't aware of what they're doing but they are, every single England Manager has drummed it into them, you don't need to be an expert to know to retain possession but they just don't do it

[foofighter23]

yeah we talk about the players having no balls but capello needs to do something drastic too now.

drop rooney, lampard and heskey. bring in defoe and crouch and someone on the left who can play there properly. how managers continually prefer lumpard in the middle over gerrard is beyond me, but then again capello falls into the trap of having to play the perceived best 11 and that includes barry, gerrard and lumpard and gerrard is the best so has to compromise. its ridiculous! our second team should easily be able to beat any of the 3 teams in our group but they wont get played cos if they do get played and fail, its on the managers head. if the best 11 play, then its on the players heads if they fail so capello's gonna deflect any critisism and go with the 'best' 11.

i'd certainly drop rooney on this showing so far and i actually backed him to be top scorer in the comp judging on the fact i could see him scoring plenty in the group stage alone. (yeah i know, what a tool) hes done absolutely nothing, hes been a liability, infact hes been a joke tbh.

so cmon capello we are a laughing stock, grow some balls and drop these clowns and give some other players a chance. maybe itll hit home to some of the players that they dont have a devine right to be first choice.

[Razzler]

This needs a Gary Linekar-esque 1986 against Poland type performance now!

Even if we went and spanked Slovenia 3-0 (yeah, I know) I think the damage has been done, even facing a North Korea-eque defence against Algeria, playing well and drawing would have been different if we went on to beat Slovenia but after that last night, whatever happens against Slovenia the 'zest' for this tournament and maybe, just maybe has gone.

Well done, England, you wanted no pressure or expectation, you've succeded

[Razzler]

I can't wait until Lampard and Gerrard retire, we can stop talking about them then. The best way to accommodate both seems to involve having Gerrard further forward. Maybe if we had a top, top left winger a Manager would make a bold decision and play one or the other but with the likes of SWP on the left does it really matter, I think we're better off with Gerrard there.

He went on about being free to get forward and attack and he rarely did anything of the sort.

[foofighter23]

thats cos he was playing out of position. lampard wasnt and neither did he

[Red_Hector]

For all his faults Heskey looked like the only player who really cared last night.

Drop Rooney to **** him off then send him on an hour into the game full of **** and vinegar.

[Lermon]

I would have brought him on maybe 10 minutes into the 2nd half, maximum. SWP again? I know he's fast but ffs, he had one run, got brought down and that was all we saw of him for the rest of the game

definitely did not understand SWP being brought on either.

God it doesn't fill you with confidence when Capello comes on saying he doesn't understand why England flunk, when they do absolutely fine in training..

[tcoleman1]

I thought Barry and Ashley Cole were our best players. Didn't make too many mistakes and were the best on a bad bunch. Rooney offered us little up front although service to him was poor, he still looked off the pace, his touch was bad and he created nothing for himself or anyone else. We looked a bit afraid out there last night for some reason and almost like because they didn't turn up and pass Algeria to death they couldn't be bothered anymore.

[ATW]

For all his faults Heskey looked like the only player who really cared last night.

Drop Rooney to **** him off then send him on an hour into the game full of **** and vinegar.

That could be actually a very good idea for England tbh

Saying that, who said Johnson had a good game? did they just start watching when Ziani went off? Algeria ripped him almost every time. Cole was far better. At least he knows how to cover.

[JonnyGabriel]

.