Ruud van Nistelrooy Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yea except im right Man U fan boy, if you got nothing to say, shut it. The only thing you're right about is that Rooney was rubbish. You are completely oblivious as to why or how this could be improved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlesh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yea thats it Rooney has played with Berbatov this year and done well, and played with Tevez the last few years and done well. So he can play well with another striker. So using the one man on his own role is no excuse. Hes just played bad and thats is. I don't think you're getting it. I want him to the focal point of our attack, whether this means with a partner or not. I don't want to see dropping him into midfield constantly. Look at the squad, we don't have any strikers who are comfortable at doing the Berbatov or Tevez role which allows Rooney to play further foward, hence the only solution is for him to play uptop by himself with an attacking midfielder supporting him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 The only thing you're right about is that Rooney was rubbish. You are completely oblivious as to why or how this could be improved. Funny how I've said in this thread and the England thread on how it can be improved, unlike yourself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I don't think you're getting it. I want him to the focal point of our attack, whether this means with a partner or not. I don't want to see dropping him into midfield constantly. Look at the squad, we don't have any strikers who are comfortable at doing the Berbatov or Tevez role which allows Rooney to play further foward, hence the only solution is for him to play uptop by himself with an attacking midfielder supporting him. Rooney has always been good at dropping deep and getting the ball. But with players like lampard and gerrard he shouldn't need to, they can push forward and fulfill that role. Hell even Heskey was meant to do that and people have been saying how great Heskey has been playing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
samba23 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 How many England managers have we had now over the years that we blame for us losing? Isnt it about time we admit that no matter who was in charge we simply dont have the players good enough to win anything?Far too many average England players are overhyped into things they're not Good post. The trouble is you can't introduce this to players at international level, it requires a total rethink throughout all levels of the English game, and by the time the players represent England it should be second nature to them. If we continue to tolerate this type of football, and by refusing to change that is exactly what we are doing, we will never get any better. I think you are probably the first person ever to compliment one of my posts My point about Wenger is that he wouldn't just accept England's style of play, he would actually teach the players how to pass and control afootball properly. I agree about it being needed at all levels, look at the work of Juan Santisteban at Spain's U17 level. I actually credit him with most of the success of Spain's national team in recent years. In an ideal world we would have Wenger (or Wenger disciples) managing England's youth teams and instilling that style of play from an early age. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Ter Posted June 18, 2010 SI Staff Share Posted June 18, 2010 Bougherra was great tonight. Let's start the bidding at £10M shall we? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsgold Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Can we play a 4-3-2-1 next game please. GK - Hart DL- Cole DR - Johnson DC - Terry DC - Dawson DMC - Barry MC - Gerrard MC - Lampard LW - Joe Cole RW - Lennon/Wright-Phillips ST - Rooney Thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reflection22 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Don't understand why Gerrard is stuck out on the left. I have never seen him play well in that role. It's putting square pegs in round holes. If Capello is so insistent on playing 4-4-2, then either Gerrard or Lampard must be dropped (preferably Lampard), with Joe Cole (someone who can actually play on the wing) on the left. If Spain can leave Fabregas on the bench in preference of Iniesta, we can do the same with Gerrard or Lampard. One of them simply must be left out if we play 4-4-2, otherwise switch to a 4-5-1 with Rooney up front on his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Can we play a 4-3-2-1 next game please.GK - Hart DL- Cole DR - Johnson DC - Terry DC - Dawson DMC - Barry MC - Gerrard MC - Lampard LW - Joe Cole RW - Lennon/Wright-Phillips ST - Rooney Thank you. Why one stiker thats been choking when we need to score goals and win the game? We need two stikers or more that can score goals! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud van Nistelrooy Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Funny how I've said in this thread and the England thread on how it can be improved, unlike yourself. Yes. It was this which led me to believe you don't have a clue. If you're interested, I'd switch to a midfield 5, ideally with Joe Cole behind the front man. Should enable us to keep possession and give Rooney someone to play off. Heskey completed 1 pass to him in the entire match apparently. Won't happen though as it would require dropping Lampard or Gerrard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorge Campos Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Here's a novel idea: England is England. It really doesn't matter who wears the shirts. We could just as easily be talking about Alan Shearer or Teddy Sheringham rather than Wayne Rooney and Emile Heskey. England simply cannot play under the pressure of the world stage and media scrutiny. The team has been abysmal historically in European Championships and has failed to qualify for the World Cup finals three times in the past 10 tournaments. This disqualifies England from any discussion about the truly elite national sides in the world. Teams like Argentina, Brazil, Italy and Germany do not have these sorts of failures, no matter who is on the pitch or who is managing. There has been an endless string of failed managers for England. Graham Taylor, Terry Venables, Glenn Hoddle, Kevin Keegan, Sven-Goran Eriksson, Steve McClaren, and now Fabio Capello. But does any of it really matter? Tactics and substitutions cannot take the blame for what has gone on for 20 years now. I think it's simply down to the fact that English players cannot thrive under the pressure of wearing the national team shirt. They do not handle the media scrutiny, they often play scared or recklessly, and they are prone to making fundamental mistakes on the biggest stages. Maybe England will go through from the group stages in this World Cup. We'll wait for the results. But I think it's quite clear that this team has no chance of winning the World Cup and minimal chance of advancing beyond the round of 16 or quarterfinals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlesh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Rooney has always been good at dropping deep and getting the ball. But with players like lampard and gerrard he shouldn't need to, they can push forward and fulfill that role. Hell even Heskey was meant to do that and people have been saying how great Heskey has been playing. He's capable of it, but I don't think you'll see the Wayne Rooney of Manchester United if you're going to give him that responsiblity. He's a different player from what he was a few seasons back. He won't be as prolific there and personally I think you'll be sacrifcing alot of his game. So you're agreeing with me that Lampard/Gerrard should be pushed further foward to do that role which leaves Rooney up top? Bit confused now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Yes. It was this which led me to believe you don't have a clue. If you're interested, I'd switch to a midfield 5, ideally with Joe Cole behind the front man. Should enable us to keep possession and give Rooney someone to play off. Heskey completed 1 pass to him in the entire match apparently. Won't happen though as it would require dropping Lampard or Gerrard. Listen mate, I don't fancy playing one striker and hoping he plays well when hes been chocking. We need goals and need to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdpatriots12 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Bougherra was great tonight. Let's start the bidding at £10M shall we? Combined with Edu it seemed like quite a day for Rangers. Oh right, that goal was disallowed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsgold Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Why one stiker thats been choking when we need to score goals and win the game? We need two stikers or more that can score goals! What like Heskey and Rooney did today? Rooney has fb as a lone striker for United. Either do what I said or play Gerrard up front just behind Rooney as an AMC. And fwiw, people can slate Rooney all they want, but with no service he can't do anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlesh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Listen mate, I don't fancy playing one striker and hoping he plays well when hes been chocking. We need goals and need to win. From what I've seen of Lampard this year he's not a bad goalscorer either. Putting a team full of strikers does not mean you'll score more goals, balance is more important. Barcelona only play with one striker and they score more than any other team around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 What like Heskey and Rooney did today?Rooney has fb as a lone striker for United. Either do what I said or play Gerrard up front just behind Rooney as an AMC. And fwiw, people can slate Rooney all they want, but with no service he can't do anything. Thats my point he couldn't score with Heskey whos meant to be feeding him. So we're going to play him on his own and hope he scores? No thanks when we have strikers on the bench that can play with him and score. Defoe scored almost as many goals as him this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
reflection22 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Another note, Rooney just doesn't look fully fit. He hasn't been the same player since the ankle injury he suffered a few months ago, which he was rushed back too soon from. I don't think he's fully recovered. His first touch was awful tonight, he looked slow and laboured, off the pace, and I lost count of the number of times he gave the ball away. He really was shocking, possibly the worst I've ever seen him play for England, but as the only world-class striker in the squad, we have no real choice but to persist with him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud van Nistelrooy Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Heskey completed 1 pass to Rooney according to FIFA stats. In the first game he made 4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 From what I've seen of Lampard this year he's not a bad goalscorer either. Putting a team full of strikers does not mean you'll score more goals, balance is more important. Barcelona only play with one striker and they score more than any other team around. Lol barca have messi the best player in the world and who more or less plays as a striker. Moot point mate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsgold Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Thats my point he couldn't score with Heskey whos meant to be feeding him. So we're going to play him on his own and hope he scores? No thanks when we have strikers on the bench that can play with him and score. Defoe scored almost as many goals as him this season. But that's my point. He prefers playing alone, and for United he was an absolute beast. With Heskey, it's almost as if he's not comfortable alongside him. I have faith in Capello. The thing is, if Capello can't do it, then the England job is nigh on impossible imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner4eva Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 You do realise that crowd noise was delibrately increased by ITV for England? Come off it mate , its not exactly an urban myth that England have sold the most tickets for the tournament bar South Africa and that England generally do have a reputation for making the most noise fan wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Let me ask a question has and can Rooney play well with another striker? Did he not do well with Tevez and win things plus score goals? Who cares what Rooney prefers, this is England.. Instead of changing the team to suit him, he should be lucky he doesn't get benched for not scoring in the last X amount of games. I don't believe for one second hes played bad and not scored in the last X amount of games because hes not up front alone. And I don't believe for one second if we do change the formation to suit him, that hes going to score in the next game. I would rather play him, and defoe whos scored almost as many goals this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdpatriots12 Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Who cares what Rooney prefers, this is England.. Instead of changing the team to suit him, he should be lucky he doesn't get benched for not scoring in the last X amount of games. Go with Crouch/Defoe! Hey, can't do much worse, can it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlesh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Lol barca have messi the best player in the world and who more or less plays as a striker. Moot point mate. Chelsea? Arsenal? Both usually only play with one front man yet score alot of goals. You seem to think that the more strikers you have on the pitch the more you'll score. This simply isn't the case, playing as a lone striker with a balanced and fully coordinating midfield behind you is much easier than playing with a partner when your midfield isn't working. If we played 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 it's not like it would only be Rooney who would be scoring goals. Gerrard and especially Lampard are more than capable of scoring alot of goals. Edit: Just read your previous post and it's frustrating as I'm pretty sure you're not even reading my posts before replying. I've already answered that question before...I'm just gunna stop replying now as before I know it I'll just be repeating myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Chelsea? Arsenal? Both usually only play with one front man yet score alot of goals.You seem to think that the more strikers you have on the pitch the more you'll score. This simply isn't the case, playing as a lone striker with a balanced and fully coordinating midfield behind you is much easier than playing with a partner when your midfield isn't working. If we played 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1 it's not like it would only be Rooney who would be scoring goals. Gerrard and especially Lampard are more than capable of scoring alot of goals. Edit: Just read your previous post and it's frustrating as I'm pretty sure you're not even reading my posts before replying. I've already answered that question before...I'm just gunna stop replying now as before I know it I'll just be repeating myself. I've seen Chelsea and Arsenal play with two stikers. As much as you say I think more stikers means more goals, you think less strikers means more goals. Listen Its easier to mark one stiker out the game, and Rooney has been playing bad. If that happens we rely on our midfidlers to score the goals and not many really do that for club let alone country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsgold Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Ok, how about this? GK: Joe Hart DL: Ashley Cole DR: Glen Johnson DC: John Terry DC: Michael Dawson ML: Joe Cole MR: Aaron Lennon MC: Michael Carrick MC: Steven Gerrard ST: Peter Crouch ST: Wayne Rooney/Jermain Defoe It brings in Crouch, who tends to score against the lesser teams. Gets rid of the Lampard/Gerrard issue, puts Gerrard into his natural position with someone fit rather than Barry, we don't have Johnson/Lennon confusing positions as everyone is in their preferred slot, and Joe Cole adds the creativity we need on the wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varlesh Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I've seen Chelsea and Arsenal play with two stikers. As much as you say I think more stikers means more goals, you think less strikers means more goals. They usually only play with one. You and I both know this and you've totally dodged my point. No I don't think that, I think that having a fully working midfield which can provide chances is more important than simply having another body upfront. Okay, now I promise that is my last reply. We've got probably the best goalscoring midfielder in the business in Lampard, so I don't see your point about not being able to rely on him. He's scored at least 20 a season for the past 5 years, if that isn't reliable then I don't know what is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruud van Nistelrooy Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 I've seen Chelsea and Arsenal play with two stikers. As much as you say I think more stikers means more goals, you think less strikers means more goals.Listen Its easier to mark one stiker out the game, and Rooney has been playing bad. If that happens we rely on our midfidlers to score the goals and not many really do that for club let alone country. No, what most people think is a better team = more goals. What you think is an excessive number of average strikers = more goals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainPlanet Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Come off it mate , its not exactly an urban myth that England have sold the most tickets for the tournament bar South Africa and that England generally do have a reputation for making the most noise fan wise. Wrong actually. United states bought the second most Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 18, 2010 Share Posted June 18, 2010 Lets say Rooney gets marked out the game Who would you rather count on getting a goal from defoe lampard gerrard some of the others? none of them score that many goals for club or country. Lamps does for club but hes been crap for country, and Defoe who can't get a game. I would rather have my money on defoe the man whos scored almost as much as Rooney this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share Posted June 18, 2010 Ok, how about this?GK: Joe Hart DL: Ashley Cole DR: Glen Johnson DC: John Terry DC: Michael Dawson ML: Joe Cole MR: Aaron Lennon MC: Michael Carrick MC: Steven Gerrard ST: Peter Crouch ST: Wayne Rooney/Jermain Defoe It brings in Crouch, who tends to score against the lesser teams. Gets rid of the Lampard/Gerrard issue, puts Gerrard into his natural position with someone fit rather than Barry, we don't have Johnson/Lennon confusing positions as everyone is in their preferred slot, and Joe Cole adds the creativity we need on the wing. Why do you keep including Hart? Especially after James just had a faultless game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
foolsgold Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Can't decide between the 3 keepers, so imo, each keeper should get one game each, leaving Joe Hart. Each deserves a chance imo as they are so closely matched. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I wanted Green, but they've changed to James and he did play well. No question hes in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Who are we blaming now that Theo isn't around? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brett.spurs Posted June 19, 2010 Author Share Posted June 19, 2010 Wasn't aware that anyone was blaming him, just that he's not very good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Green I think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunner4eva Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Wrong actually. United states bought the second most fair play, i stand corrected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Wasn't aware that anyone was blaming him, just that he's not very good. He's no Wright-Phillips thats for sure . Won all eleven games with Theo in the team iirc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloista Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Once again this group of England players proved they are big game bottlers. Should've taken Theo - he's proven he raises his game for the big matches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I was just looking at http://www.fifa.com/live/competitions/worldcup/matchday=8/day=1/match=300061464/index.html We had 48% possession and they had 52% Against Algeria ffs We can't pass and keep hold of the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio_V Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Who are we blaming now that Theo isn't around? Clearly, not having Theo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ladybayred Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Need to get back to basics, play to our strengths and the right tactics. For me Rooney (when playing with a partner), Lampard and Gerrard cannot play together, they all attack the same space in between the opposition and defense. Lennon/Wright-phillips are subs to attack tired fullbacks at 70+ minutes of a game. For me we go (controversially) 4-2-3-1. GK: Hart/James/ Green DR: Johnson DC:Terry DC: Carragher, Upson or Dawson (doesn't matter) DL: Cole DMC: Carrick DMC: Barry AMR: Milner (Lennon to come on after 70 minutes) AMC: Gerrard AML: Cole (has to play, the one genuine world class talent we have) FC: Rooney Give our best attacking players as much space as possible to operate in. If after 45 mins it isn't working swap Gerrard for Lamps and later on swap one of the wingers for Lennon or Wright-Phillips for an injection on pace. Thats how I'd do it, although I'd have taken Adam Johnson to add a proper alternative on the left wing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anon! Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 I thought Emile Heskey did alright to be fair definatley one of our better players, he regularly got the ball and used his strength. Are you kidding me? Every time the ball was played to Heskey, his second touch was a tackle ffs. Same in the first game. It's plainly obvious that he's offering nothing to the team. Couldn't believe Joe Cole never got on - we never created a decent chance all night ffs. Putting Crouch and Defoe on when the service isn't even there for them to score. Sweep on for Lennon - aye 'cos that's something different! We seriously need to go back to the drawing board and come up with another system for Slovenia. I'm not entirely sure 442 with Crouch and Defoe up front would be any better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 We got a few options. I would like to see 433 with Rooney, Crouch, and Defoe. But thats prob out the question. So I think it has to be 442 with either combo. Rooney and Crouch - both can score goals, plus crouch is a good target man. Rooney and Defoe - no more long balls, weak on headers, but both play well dropping deep. Top two English goal scores. Crouch and Defoe - nothing needs to be said. What I don't want to see is one striker, Rooney who has been choking, on his own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajw10 Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Defoe and/or Crouch starting would be terrible 4-2-3-1 with Joe Cole in for Heskey. Its not hard Fabio ffs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 The funny thing is the last ten mins of tonights game we was playing 433 with Rooney, Crouch, and Defoe on. So its obvious what you play when we NEED TO WIN A GAME. So instead of waiting to the end to go for the win. Grow some balls Mr Don and start with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadessico Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 The funny thing is the last ten mins of tonights game we was playing 433 with Rooney, Crouch, and Defoe on. So its obvious what you play when we NEED TO WIN A GAME.So instead of waiting to the end to go for the win. Grow some balls Mr Don and start with it. sept we were playing 4-4-2 with Rooney as a winger oh and mr Roon, re: your fan rant once a blue always a red Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodmansee Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 sept we were playing 4-4-2 with Rooney as a winger Good point lol. Well its close! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunk Beware Posted June 19, 2010 Share Posted June 19, 2010 Can't believe Joe Cole didn't come on in the last 25 - 30 mins, if there is one player we have to come on and change the game surely he is it. FFS Capello sort it out. We had to go 4-5-1/4-3-3 the way Chelsea play, Rooney had a terrible game he should of went off instead of Heskey (not that Heskey is good enough to play for England). GK David James (Experienced and had a decent game) DL Ashley Cole (Always good at getting forward and putting in a cross) DR Glen Johnson (Same as above) DC John Terry (Commited even if it was a bad performance tonight) DC Dawson??? Why why why are we so limited with centre backs ML Joe Cole (One of the most skillful players England have, as said above i just don't understand why he hasn't been used so far) MR SWP (Was one of the most enthusiastic players when he came on) MC Lampard (Midfield scoring machine and good at getting forward) MC Barry (First half he was Englands best player) AM Gerrard (Just in behind the striker) FW Defoe (Before tonight i would of said Rooney but just didn't seem to care/may be injured if so why is he playing?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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