The Official English National Football Team Thread

[lawd]

What England need is pretty simple. Clearly we need Mike Bassett in charge.

'Ladies and gentleman, England will be playing 4 4 ******* 2!'

And this half-time team talk would have sorted the England boys out:

I am literally crying with laughter at that.

[Rob1981]

Here's a little known fact: Ricky Tomlinson was the last man to give a team talk at the old Wembley.

[Razzler]

Gerrard wasn't in a funk against the USA, what happened in the interim? He was going on about how he'd be released to get forward now. I agree, the basics were waaaaay off yesterday, passing, control ... jeez, control, it was appalling just utterly atrocious to a man

[lawd]

You know I think the most disappointing thing about yesterday's performance, and their are a lot to choose from, was the awful level that the basics were being done at. Control and short range passing was frankly at a level I have never seen from england, it was just so poor. Now I'm no 4-4-2 fan but you could of played any formation/system last night, and you can't control and pass a ball your ****ed. I know its a common theme to say 'England just aren't that good' but why? We have imo 5 world class players in Terry, Cole, Lampard, Gerrard and Rooney yet for some reason they 'loose' something when they pull on a white shirt which they don't when they pull on a red or blue one. People say its fear or pressure, fear of what? you are in a position which nearly every english football fan would kill for, representing your country on the biggst stage of them all, you should be embracing the chance to show the world just how good you are, of pitting your skills against the best players on the planet, not shrinking into your shell. And what pressure? if you go out and give your all and come up short fair enough, no one can complain, but to look so bereft of imagination and heart isn't good enough.

I am so tired of the obligitory ' we know we weren't good enough', 'we need to play better'. Don't tell me what I know go out their and do it. Actions speak louder then words.

On a tatical side Joe Cole must come in, he simply must. He has that little bit of spark and ability that can be the difference at international level. Gerrard needs to be freed up in the middle and imo behind Roney, they are the closest thing we have to an effective partnership ala Shearer/Sheringham. Lampard needs to be taken of the leash, if he is asked to play deeper and more conservitavley, he may not be everyones favourite but he is the best midfielder of his type, ie breaking into the box and getting goals. I like Lennon on the right I just wish his final ball was more consistent. But it all boils down to the mentality, the England players need to really want the ball, to want to showcase thier talent, all the systems, tatcial changes, positioning in the world can't make it right if you aint got it up top.

[Kill Rock Stars]

Tweet from Marcotti:

Armband or not, Terry is still the leader of that squad.

beyond. parody.

[Razzler]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840033/England-goalkeeper-David-James-hints-at-tensions-in-camp.html

James making some snide comment about finding out the team late. "Train and then find out a few minutes before we leave" .... stop talking and concentrate on playing, k

[why?]

        Rooney

  Cole  Gerrard  Lennon

     Barry  Carrick

Cole  Terry  Dawson  Johnson

         James

Would play that against Slovenia. Lampard to replace Gerrard if he isn't cutting it. More balanced than what we have at the moment down both wings, freedom for the central AM, protection for the defence, Carrick will look to receive the ball short which is something we completely lacked last night. Not ideal because the players are simply not good enough, but i think it's the best all round solution we have. Won't happen of course.

[dafuge]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/world-cup-2010/teams/england/7840033/England-goalkeeper-David-James-hints-at-tensions-in-camp.html

James making some snide comment about finding out the team late. "Train and then find out a few minutes before we leave" .... stop talking and concentrate on playing, k

David James does an awful lot of personal mental preparation for matches, I've always thought that naming the team just two hours before a match would not suit him at all.

[Razzler]

I heard Capello say that he'd named teams early before and then had to make a late change and the incoming player wasn't mentally prepared. Wanting to have the whole group prepared but surely you'd want to run through things in training with the first choice XI

[Deltaroad]

Capello should name the 11 24hrs before the match. Give them time to prepare. If Capello cannot trust his own players not to leak the squad then it says alot about how much trust communication issues there are.

I heard that the English supports out in Africa are looking to boo Rooney for his comments made yesterday.

[Razzler]

I don't think it's about leaking the squad tbf, think it's about everyone being prepared mentally to play. Let's face it, we all kind of knew the team a good 10 hours or so before the kick off anyway

[glory utd]

I didn't mention what I think Capello will do in any of my posts. It'll be SWP in for Lennon and Defoe in for Heskey imo. And obviously the centre back choice, that doesn't really matter though.

[Razzler]

The only problem with the Rooney/Defoe thing is our old friend the loooong ball being knocked aimlessly upfield, I cannot understand how we can't comprehend to not do this, players talk like they understand the need to retain possession and 'improve' but they just don't do it

[gaga_4_parma]

How can James say he isn't close to anyone? what kind of attitude does he have...

[glory utd]

The only problem with the Rooney/Defoe thing is our old friend the loooong ball being knocked aimlessly upfield, I cannot understand how we can't comprehend to not do this, players talk like they understand the need to retain possession and 'improve' but they just don't do it

One of the reasons Heskey needs to be removed. They might not be so tempted to do it as an easy way out if neither Heskey or Crouch are there.

[Razzler]

Sadly I think it's the other way around, Heskey is there cause they do it rather than they do it cause Heskey's there

I remember having Owen and Vassel up top and that didn't stop the long, searching ball hit early into the channels time and time and time again. It should be easy and common sense somewhat. Defoe certainly looked lively, we need to do something

[pengedragon]

Sadly I think it's the other way around, Heskey is there cause they do it rather than they do it cause Heskey's there

heh, you may be onto something there

[brett.spurs]

I didn't mention what I think Capello will do in any of my posts. It'll be SWP in for Lennon and Defoe in for Heskey imo. And obviously the centre back choice, that doesn't really matter though.

Yep, Upson, SWP and Defoe in most likely.

[Crazy_T]

god I have read so many comments across both threads that have angered me.

that was definitely the worst performance i've ever seen from england. just no heart at all, combined with a complete lack of creativity/flair. why are we paying fabio capello 6 millions pounds a year just to watch him play our best players incorrectly and utilise nothing but long balls to heskey? it is seriously pathetic. and I honestly do not give a **** if it 'worked' in qualification against those mediocre teams. most of those performances were far from convincing anyway.

anyone can see that 4-4-2 is not the best thing for england, but capello doesn't care for style and he's only interested in results. which is a fine philosophy, but when it's resulting in such abject performances like this (and so many others) he has to look at changing something - which he won't because he's too stubborn. when we're struggling for creativity/spark WHY is our most creative player joe cole not playing? so what if he's not played for chelsea, he plays well for england and he is one player that offers something different and it's just so infuriating seeing him not involved.

we need to play 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 - like all the top teams. 4-4-2 just isn't cutting it when your options are heskey, crouch and defoe. I don't really have a problem with the defence, apart from obviously playing carragher isn't the way forward. barry is important and usually the only one that comes out of every game with some credit. he is key to our system, we can't play without him (or someone) specifically holding. the problem with him is that he isn't a great passer (yeah he can play it simple and accurately but nothing too forward). and we have the solution to this in michael carrick, he can dictate the play from deep whilst providing a good defensive cover aswell. the only issue with him right now is his form, but we don't have a better option. so either we need to play both or carrick has to play instead of barry. we're passing it around too slowly at times aswell but carrick has that ability to play the right quick forward pass if we can, barry can't.

now on the right the only option is basically lennon. we get so narrow at times, with him and gerrard coming inside, he needs to stay out there and keep it stretched. honestly there's not much else you can say about the right, lennon just basically needs to be more effective - whether he can step up and perform or not is another question. and between him, swp and walcott one of them has to do it and he's our best option right now. on the left joe cole simply HAS to play. I don't understand leaving your most creative player out to ram gerrard into that position where he just comes inside and messes the balance up anyway (yes gerrard played well once there against croatia, who gives a ****). it's not his best position and he's wasted. now I don't know who i'd play closest to rooney out of gerrard and lampard. gerrard for me is the better player so i'd probably prefer him. and I also realise this is lampard's best position, and he does it great for chelsea why doesn't he ever show up in an england shirt? I don't know but if he is so ineffective all the time he needs to go. lastly, rooney as the main striker, no ****ing heskey, no need for heskey to get the best out of rooney (load of ****) and absolutely no long balls just because heskey is there. he has shown he can play the role for united all season and he says himself it's where he wants to be. he is our best player and we need him at 100% and happy as possible.

as samba23 said in the other thread we need to start playing pass & move football, our movement last night was really bad. so predictable and devoid of any creativity. obviously it's not something we can change straight away but the problem is clear all the way down to youth level and it needs to change. if we have creative players they need to be in the middle, and deviate away from 4-4-2 to accomodate them - not the other way round so that they are shifted out wide. we need players playing inbetween the lines, both behind the midfield and crucially infront of it. our mentality has to change.

[brett.spurs]

god I have read so many comments across both threads that have angered me.

that was definitely the worst performance i've ever seen from england. just no heart at all, combined with a complete lack of creativity/flair. why are we paying fabio capello 6 millions pounds a year just to watch him play our best players incorrectly and utilise nothing but long balls to heskey? it is seriously pathetic. and I honestly do not give a **** if it 'worked' in qualification against those mediocre teams. most of those performances were far from convincing anyway.

anyone can see that 4-4-2 is not the best thing for england, but capello doesn't care for style and he's only interested in results. which is a fine philosophy, but when it's resulting in such abject performances like this (and so many others) he has to look at changing something - which he won't because he's too stubborn. when we're struggling for creativity/spark WHY is our most creative player joe cole not playing? so what if he's not played for chelsea, he plays well for england and he is one player that offers something different and it's just so infuriating seeing him not involved.

we need to play 4-1-4-1 or 4-2-3-1 - like all the top teams. 4-4-2 just isn't cutting it when your options are heskey, crouch and defoe. I don't really have a problem with the defence, apart from obviously playing carragher isn't the way forward. barry is important and usually the only one that comes out of every game with some credit. he is key to our system, we can't play without him (or someone) specifically holding. the problem with him is that he isn't a great passer (yeah he can play it simple and accurately but nothing too forward). and we have the solution to this in michael carrick, he can dictate the play from deep whilst providing a good defensive cover aswell. the only issue with him right now is his form, but we don't have a better option. so either we need to play both or carrick has to play instead of barry. we're passing it around too slowly at times aswell but carrick has that ability to play the right quick forward pass if we can, barry can't.

now on the right the only option is basically lennon. we get so narrow at times, with him and gerrard coming inside, he needs to stay out there and keep it stretched. honestly there's not much else you can say about the right, lennon just basically needs to be more effective - whether he can step up and perform or not is another question. and between him, swp and walcott one of them has to do it and he's our best option right now. on the left joe cole simply HAS to play. I don't understand leaving your most creative player out to ram gerrard into that position where he just comes inside and messes the balance up anyway (yes gerrard played well once there against croatia, who gives a ****). it's not his best position and he's wasted. now I don't know who i'd play closest to rooney out of gerrard and lampard. gerrard for me is the better player so i'd probably prefer him. and I also realise this is lampard's best position, and he does it great for chelsea why doesn't he ever show up in an england shirt? I don't know but if he is so ineffective all the time he needs to go. lastly, rooney as the main striker, no ****ing heskey, no need for heskey to get the best out of rooney (load of ****) and absolutely no long balls just because heskey is there. he has shown he can play the role for united all season and he says himself it's where he wants to be. he is our best player and we need him at 100% and happy as possible.

as samba23 said in the other thread we need to start playing pass & move football, our movement last night was really bad. so predictable and devoid of any creativity. obviously it's not something we can change straight away but the problem is clear all the way down to youth level and it needs to change. if we have creative players they need to be in the middle, and deviate away from 4-4-2 to accomodate them - not the other way round so that they are shifted out wide. we need players playing inbetween the lines, both behind the midfield and crucially infront of it. our mentality has to change.

That won't happen whilst Glen Johnson is at right back, now seeing as we have no other right backs(wp Fabio mate) then Lennon will have to miss out.

[aggressive minor]

Maybe Capello's late team naming is better suited to club level? I don't know, with way more games, not so intense every time and you inevitabely get a better idea of who is playing without it being so late.

Although Alf Ramsey followed the same method, but our media would never mention that when things are bad would they?

[why?]

Shut up with that Brett

He talking about Lennon holding a wide right position and stretching the opposition horizontally across the pitch, nothing at all to do with Johnson occupying his space when he gets forward.

Spot on that from Crazy. Great post. Need to do everything we can to encourage shorter passing and provide more options for the man on the ball, without that everything else is pointless.

[pengedragon]

overhyped epl players in technique found wanting at international level shocker

[brett.spurs]

It is ALL to do with Johnson, honestly, I'm not making this up at all.

So many comments in the match thread moaning about Aaron being inside all the time, partly the reason for that was because he was getting bored standing out there and not getting the ball to him, but mainly it was because Johnson is obsessed with being a winger himself. Every time Lennon has an attacking fullback behind him this happens.

Johnson just needs to back him up, not run into his space, it pushes Lennon inside which just isn't his game at all. There's no point of having an out-and-out winger in this England side as they're just not used, would be better off having players like Cole/Milner etc, as they'll cut inside leaving Johnson to run into the space all he wants without negatively affecting their game.

[Confused Clarity]

Sadly I think it's the other way around, Heskey is there cause they do it rather than they do it cause Heskey's there

I remember having Owen and Vassel up top and that didn't stop the long, searching ball hit early into the channels time and time and time again. It should be easy and common sense somewhat. Defoe certainly looked lively, we need to do something

I remember (i think) Capello's first game in charge of England at Wembley.

You had the ball for a good five minutes, passing the ball around, looking for an opening that wasn't really happening. The fans started jeering and hollering because they'd not seen an attack. Suddenly Roy of the Rovers Gerrard, seemingly hearing the jeers, hit a long searching ball into one of the channels and England were promptly on the back foot.

Was one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen on the football field from a top class player.

[Confused Clarity]

This may shock some, probably including the man himself, but I actually agree with brett on this one.

Either Capello plays a player out wide who'll cut inside and be effective in that role and allow Johnson to get forward, or he instructs Johnson to limit the amount of runs he makes and to try and support Lennon with those runs rather than stifling him.

[pengedragon]

can look at the fans for that as well then, while people are happy watching the 100mph epl nonsense they wont want the national team to change

but at this level you have to look after the ball because you wont immediately get it back like your average league game over here

[why?]

It is ALL to do with Johnson, honestly, I'm not making this up at all.

So many comments in the match thread moaning about Aaron being inside all the time, partly the reason for that was because he was getting bored standing out there and not getting the ball to him, but mainly it was because Johnson is obsessed with being a winger himself. Every time Lennon has an attacking fullback behind him this happens.

Johnson just needs to back him up, not run into his space, it pushes Lennon inside which just isn't his game at all. There's no point of having an out-and-out winger in this England side as they're just not used, would be better off having players like Cole/Milner etc, as they'll cut inside leaving Johnson to run into the space all he wants without negatively affecting their game.

He may well be getting bored because he was starved of possession (i agree) but that isn't his problem to solve, it is Capello's and the other player's problem. He has to show discipline and hold his position for the sake of the team, even if he gets the ball only 5 times in the whole match. Shape is so important at this level, hence why Gerrard on the left is such a terribly flawed idea, because he too drifts inside at every opportunity. It destroys our whole shape, cuts down the passing options and that is why we constantly have to hoof the ball long.

I do agree that Johnson gets into Lennon's space too much at times, i said as much to you the other day, and this does need to be worked on in training. But Lennon is not blameless here, he isn't showing enough confidence in his own ability. Like everybody else he has underperformed so far and needs to step it up.

[aggressive minor]

We could do with a younger Gary Neville

Mentioned it earler, but how many of our goals at major tournaments since France 98 had Beckham's involvement. He was the best at that killer pass/cross, which could have got us through yesterday.

[Oscillate Wildly]

Johnson just needs to back him up, not run into his space, it pushes Lennon inside which just isn't his game at all. There's no point of having an out-and-out winger in this England side as they're just not used, would be better off having players like Cole/Milner etc, as they'll cut inside leaving Johnson to run into the space all he wants without negatively affecting their game.

I agree with this. This pattern of play was set in stone when we had Joe Cole-Lampard-Gerrard-Beckham strung across the midfield, especially when Beckham started playing further back down the line than he had earlier in his career. Cole and Beckham weren't wingers, they were just wide midfield; more often than not they'd step inside and Ashley Cole and Gary Neville would overlap to provide crosses. Neville's distribution could be shocking, and he was responsible for a lot of long, aimless crossfield balls, but he supported Beckham well at the time, when Beckham stopped being inclined to cross from the byline.

Now we're trying to get the best out of quicker wingers in Lennon and Walcott, which would have worked with Neville (when Lennon came on for Beckham on the right at WC '06 he had Neville behind him and looked superb). But it doesn't work anywhere near as well with Johnson because he keeps charging forward into the final third where Lennon should be and Lennon comes inside, which rarely works. It leaves a honking great gap in the right back position and congests the play, especially when Johnson also then cuts inside towards the box and Lennon is left standing around like a spare wheel with dodgy eyebrows.

It's a combination that could work in time, if the players could actually communicate more and learn to compliment each other, but there are times when Johnson seems a tad too self-interested (and maybe fancies himself as Maicon) to want to buy into that. And Lennon needs to toughen up and demand a bit more space to express himself.

[aggressive minor]

Unless my memory fails me, I remember Neville's distribution being pretty decent.

[why?]

Because he fancies himself as Maicon??? Because he has been told to do that by the coach you mean? Goodness, these are tactical instructions from Capello, they are not simply making it up as they go along. Ashley Cole tries to do exactly the same down the left, he was in advance of some of our midfield at times last night, but because we have a poor combination of players down that side (Gerrard is not the right man for this left hand role) we do not get to exploit it very often. These are clear tactics though ffs, not the random impulses of a right back.

[weeeman27bob]

Tbh, Fabio= Rafa.

Wonderful honeymoon period.

Things start to go downhill.

Star striker never seems to be properly fit.

Gerrard doesn't play as well as he can.

[aggressive minor]

Would have been nice if Fabio won the Euros/WC before things went downhill!

[Guest roberto922]

That was a long honeymoon period, takes over in 2003/04 (can't remember) and wins the CL in 2005, reaches the final in 2007 and finishes 2nd in 2009. 5/6 years long?

[Razzler]

I remember (i think) Capello's first game in charge of England at Wembley.

You had the ball for a good five minutes, passing the ball around, looking for an opening that wasn't really happening. The fans started jeering and hollering because they'd not seen an attack. Suddenly Roy of the Rovers Gerrard, seemingly hearing the jeers, hit a long searching ball into one of the channels and England were promptly on the back foot.

Was one of the most ridiculous things i've ever seen on the football field from a top class player.

Yep, think I remember the game and it was ridiculous, can't remember if it was the first game or not though was pretty soon after he took over.

The only problem I have with us keeping possession like that is we don't advance with the ball, we don't use it sensibly to build up play. We stroke it about a little and then hit it long. If you're ultimately gonna hit a long aimless ball it doesn't matter whether it's early or late in fact you may as well hit the front early in that situation.

There were a couple of occasions in the Algeria game with interchanges between Barry and I think Lampard in the middle and you could see Barry with the ball at his feet doing that kind of arms out, finger bent type motion as there was clearly nothing on for him.

Movement was awful.

[Razzler]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jun/19/world-cup-2010-england-wayne-rooney

Rooney's sorry. For the comments ... not the performance

[bigdunk]

All these arguments about formations, player selections, managers and so on are fundamentally missing the point. No matter what manager picks what XI in what formatiom, it will still be a group of players who cannot control a ball and make a simple pass to a team mate. Until this is sorted at grass roots level we will never be a competitive international side. The single best thing the FA could now is go and get whoever is running the Barca (or Milan, or Inter, or whoever) academy and get them to sort out the coaching of young players in this country. The reliance on long ball all stems from this - if you look at Spain, when Puyol picks the ball up, he knows that he can make a simple pass to Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Busquets etc and no matter how tightly they are marked, they are capable of controlling it and keeping posession. All too often when Terry picks up the ball, there is no-one in front of him who he can trust to receive the ball, and keep it, if they are under any kind of pressure, so he has to resort to playing it long.

Fans need an attitude change as well, imo. I can only talk from watching Derby play, but it basically boils down to play a ball sideways and the crowd gets agitated, play a ball backward and it turns to outright boos and abuse. We need to realise that sometimes it's better to keep the ball and play it backwards than it is to just try and lump it forwards at every opportunity. The same applies to player selection - Seth Johnson is heralded as a hero at Derby because he charged about tackling everything in sight but he could barely pass 10 yards to a teammate, where as Matt Oakley sat in front of the back 4 playing simple balls well and keeping posession and he got abuse for not working hard enough, not influencing the game and so on. We need to realise that workrate and desire etc, while being important, is not the only requirement for being a footballer.

[Razzler]

but they can pass a ball and control a ball, we all see them doing it all the time for their clubs, let's face it, you don't reach the level they have in their careers without being able to do this, what happens when they play for England no one knows.

[tcoleman1]

I read someone's blog that they wrote (and posted in the football forum) about England's performance and tbh I totally agreed with it. Fabio seems to have lost his bottle and ability to take a risk. I would rather have seen us go out there playing a new formation/gerrard behind rooney/any different and still draw 0-0 because at least we can then say it's definetely because we aren't good enough and not because the tactics aren't right. I think we should have bought Johnson instead of Wright-Phillips, although that doesn't matter now and we just need to try something different, as this clearly isn't working.

[brett.spurs]

I'd have Scholes and Neville in the side right now tbh, atleast they're footballers and more importantly, winners.

[glory utd]

England team in 5 years time anyone? Bet it's a scarily average though.

[tcoleman1]

If Capello won't change formation then I would like to at least see him mix the team up a bit. Maybe see someone in for Heskey, Crouch or Defoe/Gerrard. Someone else on the left and then keep Lennon or Milner on the right as Wright-Phillips has been very below par.

[Razzler]

I hope Adam Johnson continues to get the chance to play at the top level of football and Rodwell continues his development

[Woodmansee]

If he stays with 442 and pretty sure he will. He has to play Joe Cole and Bring on either Defoe or Crouch for Heskey. Maybe even take Heskey and Rooney off and play Crouch and Defoe. I just don't see that happening.

[Lermon]

from this - if you look at Spain, when Puyol picks the ball up, he knows that he can make a simple pass to Xavi, Iniesta, Alonso, Busquets etc and no matter how tightly they are marked, they are capable of controlling it and keeping posession. All too often when Terry picks up the ball, there is no-one in front of him who he can trust to receive the ball, and keep it, if they are under any kind of pressure, so he has to resort to playing it long.

Quote from zonal marking:

"Whilst Switzerland defended well, the most notable feature of the game was quite how bad David Silva and Andres Iniesta were when they got the ball, how anonymous Xavi was, and how frustrating the full-backs were to watch."

You wouldn't think that about Iniesta and Silva. Anyway back to this game I blame the tactics, I think some of the passing should have been shorter quite simply. They just went on too adventurous, and expected the players to sort of pick out all these passes without difficulty as if it was just another training match- but nerves does take a toll-until confidence has improved.

[lawd]

You wonder why Joe isn't getting a shot. Has he picked up a knock we don't know about? Has he been training poorly? I mean if you look at our bench and we are in a game deadlocked at 0-0 with absolutley no invention or spark, the first thing you would think to do would be to bring on Joe, tell him 'go out their son, and show what Chelsea are going to miss, and any team would gain'. Not SWP, who hasn't had a great season, isn't a creative force, and can't really cross a ball at a good, and more importantly consistent level. Can anyone give me any theory on why Joe Cole isn't making any appearance in this world cup? Because I'm at a loss.

[MeLikeFM]

Just thought you would like to know.

Souness is doing some punditry for RTE and he is adamant your **** performances are down some sort of oxygen starvation, he was going on about APO, red blood cells and kidneys saying your body is at a downward spiral for the first 4 weeks of altitude as your body adjusts and he says same thing happened him with Scotland in Mexico.

He might be talking out his arse but still, its a theory.

[finneys13]

Have Souness on RTÉ blaming a lot of England's performance on living at altitude for the amount of time they have, they are just at the worst part of aclimatising to altitude now, after three weeks your body adapts to living at altitude, before that, your body suffers. He uses himself playing at Mexico '86 as an example.

Has anyone a map of where the other teams are staying, and for how long? Be interesting if the underperforming teams have a common habit of staying at altitude for not long enough.

[Razzler]

We had a leading altitude guy or something with us in Austria, surely those type of people that study it know all about the effects during and after being exposed to altitude