The Official English National Football Team Thread

[tdpatriots12]

Yeah, but a 3-3/0-0 scenario has to be pretty remote.

Even 2-2/0-0.

Slovenia can advance with a draw.

Not to mention both USA and Algeria need a win, granted that doesn't mean they won't draw 0-0, but neither team wants that result.

[James M]

Is that really how it works if it all ends up being tied? They draw lots?

It doesn't go to goal difference?

Goal difference, head to head and Goals scored would be the same, so then they draw lots.

[joe__the__man]

Edit; nevermind, missed the new page.

[hasdgfas]

I'm finding 0-0 in US-Algeria very unlikely. Algeria need a win to go through, they'll probably attack.

[dafuge]

Yeah, but a 3-3/0-0 scenario has to be pretty remote.

Definitely, England are 2/5 to win.

[dafuge]

Is that really how it works if it all ends up being tied? They draw lots?

It doesn't go to goal difference?

Goal difference, goals scored, results between the teams, drawing of lots. I'm pretty sure that is the order.

[sebsy]

Sorry, totally misread the group standings post earlier on and for some reason thought US had a +2 gd.

Thought it odd that GD wouldn't be used first :/

[James M]

I'm actually more surprised it isn't head to head first?

[glory utd]

I'm not English and I don't support England but thought I'd throw my view out there.

The goalkeeping situation. Don't think Green should've been first choice, he was, he made a mistake, he's not anymore. James did well, is a calm, composed and experience head. No problems there.

The defence. I really don't think Johnson is that great but he's the best in the squad so it doesn't really matter. Cole is obviously fine at centre back. Carragher really shouldn't be playing, but he's suspended. In my opinion, Dawson has to come in ahead of Upson.

The midfield. Lampard, specifically, has never really worked in anything other than a midfield three for Chelsea. He doesn't work in a two. Never looks like he knows whether to go forward or not. You'd imagine to get any sort of midfield going you'd need to play a three due to this. Problem with that is that means Gerrard must also play as a centre mid, as he wouldn't work well out wide in a 433 / 451. Gerrard and Lampard in a midfield three means they would be the two more forward players. Problem with this is that they don't work together well at all. They both try the same thing. The solution, in my opinion, is to play 442 and drop Lampard, or play 451 and drop one of Gerrard and Lampard. Obviously Gerrard can't be dropped due to the captaincy. I think a midfield three is a much better idea for England atm, but Capello wouldn't change. Saying that, he wouldn't drop Lampard either so I may as well continue talking theory!

My three would, as stated be made up of Barry and Gerrard (due to the captaincy, not sure if I'd have Lampard ahead of him or not otherwise) plus one. Only people who would fill this space are Milner, Carrick, Cole and possibly Rooney. Against top class opposition I'd go for Carrick, even though he is a massive bottler! Against the lesser teams I'd actually put Rooney in here, as I don't see him as this huge goalscorer who'll fire England to the final like many do.

Onto the forward three. As I have Rooney in my midfield in my offensive team, he'll only feature here in my defensive one - at left wing / left forward. As I said, don't see him getting a tonne of goals but believe him to be dangerous creatively none the less. As we have this creative player playing from the left I'd go for Lennon on the right and keep Cole benched. This leaves the striker. Heskey is obviously out, the useless heap. The choice is Crouch or Defoe really. I'd be tempted to go with Defoe. He doesn't necessarily need to be too involved due to the other creative players, which suits him. For my team with Rooney in midfield I'd put Cole into the vacant left wing position.

So, against the big teams, my England team, given the current squad, would be:

James

Johnson

Terry

Dawson

Cole

Barry

Carrick

Gerrard

Lennon

Defoe

Rooney

And versus lesser teams:

James

Johnson

Terry

Dawson

Cole

Barry

Gerrard

Rooney

Lennon

Defoe

Cole

So yeah, there's my most probably unwanted analysis on the England team and squad, Capello, and the way I'd play it.

[sebsy]

Surely if it is all tied after GD, goals scored, head to head there is still a btter way than drawing lots ffs

ie, result against group winner, which would see us through in this case. (Going by the we draw 2-2, USA draw 0-0 avenue or whatever results it is that sees us tied on everything)

[crouchaldinho]

Very depressing.

Extremely poor. All the big names - the Lampards, Gerrards, Rooneys etc. - performed way below the standard we would expect.

I've said all along that I don't like the 4-4-2 with Gerrard on the left. I'd also like to have seen Crouch starting this match. I just can't see us scoring goals with Rooney and Heskey up front.

The team looked rigid and devoid of all creativity. The best idea they seemed to come up with was to lump it up to Heskey on an almost constant basis (or in lieu of Heskey just lump it forward to nobody) and whether you like him or not, there wasn't much Heskey could do with it most of the time.

I can't remember an England team ever passing the ball so badly. Our ball retention was just absolutely shocking and some of the passing was just dreadful.

Nevertheless, I'm going to stick my neck out and say that I think England will still go through. They will beat Slovenia. Mark my words. It is worth noting that in nearly every managerial job that Capello has had, his teams have often struggled and gone through difficult times before fighting back and succeeding. So I think that England will go out on Wednesday and do what is required against Slovenia to take them through to the second round.

[dafuge]

Surely if it is all tied after GD, goals scored, head to head there is still a btter way than drawing lots ffs

ie, result against group winner, which would see us through in this case. (Going by the we draw 2-2, USA draw 0-0 avenue or whatever results it is that sees us tied on everything)

Ireland got through on the drawing of lots in 1990, I don't think it has happened since.

[joe__the__man]

I'm not English and I don't support England but thought I'd throw my view out there.

....

So yeah, there's my most probably unwanted analysis on the England team and squad, Capello, and the way I'd play it.

We came up with the same team though, for mostly the same reasons - except that I'd swap Cole and Rooney around

[hasdgfas]

england fans' reaction to the algeria match(NSFW language):

[crouchaldinho]

So glory utd - you've have Defoe leading the line on his own in a 4-3-3? Not at all convinced by that idea.

[hjfh]

For the Slovenia game i'd drop Lampard and Heskey then bring Cole and Crouch in. Gerrard and Barry in the centre.

[joe__the__man]

So glory utd - you've have Defoe leading the line on his own in a 4-3-3? Not at all convinced by that idea.

Well nobody else can do it. Heskey can't control the ball, Crouch doesn't have the pace or movement and Rooney is always too deep. Defoe is the best of a bad bunch for that particular role.

With Rooney supporting from the left as a wide second striker, Joe Cole in behind and Gerrard hopefully making runs he's not gonna be isolated.

[SeanNUFC]

I'lld definitely start with rooney/defoe next game. J.Cole on left milner on right if fit. We'll win then and everyone can shut up.

[crouchaldinho]

Well nobody else can do it. Heskey can't control the ball, Crouch doesn't have the pace or movement and Rooney is always too deep. Defoe is the best of a bad bunch for that particular role.

With Rooney supporting from the left as a wide second striker, Joe Cole in behind and Gerrard hopefully making runs he's not gonna be isolated.

I'm just not at all convinced that he would be the kind of striker you could play up top by himself.

And perhaps the reason Capello sticks with the 4-4-2 is because we don't really have that kind of forward in the squad. Well, apart from maybe Rooney that is.

[TheRealMagpies]

At times he just looked bored. A lot of the players did.

Whats to be bored about ....

Work is playing a 'Game' .. [check]

Collecting obscenely fat paycheck from EPL Club .. [check]

Laughing at the plebs that have to grind 40hrs+ a week in factory/office for 15000 a year .. [check]

He has NO RIGHT to be bored.

He is paid to perform, and with the level of pay he recieves there should be NO excuse for anything less than a worldclass performance for every single second he is on the pitch.

If he is incapable of a worldclass performance (which he so clearly is), drop him.

If he isn't prepared or is unable to adapt his game to a TEAM-Based approach, drop him.

Hurt the selfish moneygrabbing b&stard in the wage packet, as that is obviously all he cares about.

We need a manger with the balls to tell the players, the FA, and the Media to F-OFF!!

Sadly there aren't any.

[aggressive minor]

I want 4-5-1, J.Cole instead of Heskey. Dawson in for Carragher.

I don't think he'll make mass changes though or change the formation. I think it'll be Upson for Carragher- which is fair enough.

Cole is obviously out of favour. Does the fact that Ancelotti and Capello (two of the top managers in the world) don't seem to fancy him right now means there is something missing since he returned from injury? Or is it just lack of faith/games from the managers? I can't see how he would be worse than SWP.

As for Heskey. Thought he was good against the USA, I defended his selection in the squad, but he was shocking tonight (of course lots of other players were). 4-5-1, or bring in Defoe or Crouch, we need goals. Heskey may be there to bring out the best in Rooney, but Rooney has been shocking himself.

[SCIAG]

Crouch is reasonable or better on his own up top.

[SeanNUFC]

I want 4-5-1, J.Cole instead of Heskey. Dawson in for Carragher.

I don't think he'll make mass changes though or change the formation. I think it'll be Upson for Carragher- which is fair enough.

Cole is obviously out of favour. Does the fact that Ancelotti and Capello (two of the top managers in the world) don't seem to fancy him right now means there is something missing since he returned from injury? Or is it just lack of faith/games from the managers? I can't see how he would be worse than SWP.

As for Heskey. Thought he was good against the USA, I defended his selection in the squad, but he was shocking tonight (of course lots of other players were). 4-5-1, or bring in Defoe or Crouch, we need goals. Heskey may be there to bring out the best in Rooney, but Rooney has been shocking himself.

It doesn't seem as though heskeys bring the best out in rooney whatsoever. In both games.

[brett.spurs]

James; Johnson, Dawson, Terry, A.Cole; Lennon, Carrick, Gerrard, J.Cole; Defoe, Crouch.

Ta

[aggressive minor]

Surely you have no Spurs bias there Brett?

[aggressive minor]

It doesn't seem as though heskeys bring the best out in rooney whatsoever. In both games.

I agree. I don't want him near the starting line up anymore. When he had pace and some belief he was pretty decent, but its not there anymore.

[aggressive minor]

You know what, it felt like one of those FM games where your superstar players play against an average team and NOTHING happens in the match, whatever you try.

[SeanNUFC]

You know what, it felt like one of those FM games where your superstar players play against an average team and NOTHING happens in the match, whatever you try.

Indeed!

[brett.spurs]

Surely you have no Spurs bias there Brett?

I don't care who they play for, just want a shake-up in the side rather than an inevitable abject performance against Slovenia seeing us go out.

[why?]

It's probably more inevitable that we'll scrape a win, hopes will be foolishly raised, and then we have to endure at least one more performance like tonight in the knockout stages, if not two, before we get put out of our misery.

[Lermon]

how come Milner wasn't playing? Still recovering from the bug?

[Paul Bacon]

I fell asleep at HT

I told my boss at work "if England win im taking half day Weds off, if we lose dont bother booking me it off". So shall i bother wasting Annual Leave on watching the Slovenia game?

[aggressive minor]

I don't care who they play for, just want a shake-up in the side rather than an inevitable abject performance against Slovenia seeing us go out.

I see no reason why Carrick should be in ahead of Barry. Plus I would have Rooney in for either Defoe/Crouch, although he was so bad today there is an argument to drop him.

Other than that, part of me agrees that a shakeup is what we need.

[aggressive minor]

It's probably more inevitable that we'll scrape a win, hopes will be foolishly raised, and then we have to endure at least one more performance like tonight in the knockout stages, if not two, before we get put out of our misery.

I think the press will slaugher us for scraping a win as well. I really don't think I've seen us play as bad in a WC game as we did today.

[aggressive minor]

how come Milner wasn't playing? Still recovering from the bug?

Moreso the formation change than anything else.

[ldktalin]

And FM should've taught us it's not all about the players by now.

I'm no fan of England, but tbh I'd reserve judgement on individual performances when the team as a whole doesn't seem to function. It usually means the team isn't well prepared, properly organized and doesn't have the right game plan. It's about 11 people who have to click together, and when it doesn't happen, players will easily get lost on the pitch (especially if the other team knows exactly what to do).

If any individual underperformed in the last two games, it's Capello. When a specific player (or two) just don't perform in an otherwise well organized team, then it's the players' fault. When the whole team doesn't perform, it's the manager's fault by default.

[simonbyrneno.4]

Sorry but it's about time the English media realised that the majority of the England aren't what they are hyped up to be!

The days of 442 are dead aswell!

[HHUK]

In my opinion, Lampard and Rooney need to be dropped, not to prove a point exactly.. but because we need to perform and Slovenia would have been watching us, watching who to mark and who to frustrate. Throwing out Defoe and Crouch upfront would be a surprise for them. Sticking Gerrard in the middle where he can impress would be good, allowing Milner on the left wing would give us width, he's on a yellow so the sooner he gets another yellow out of the way, the better.

[Woodmansee]

Either play 433 with Rooney, Crouch and Defoe. Or stick with 442, and Start with Rooney and Crouch, and bring on Defoe. imo

I would love to see us play 433 with the three strikers on tho. Goals Goals Goals!

[Pires777]

I don't care who they play for, just want a shake-up in the side rather than an inevitable abject performance against Slovenia seeing us go out.

And a shaking up is shoving in as many spurs players as possible? Surprised you havent put king in there

Fwiw, Carragher wasnt bad at all today. Dawson does not have the experience for this sort of game. He has always looked like a defender who was one step away from calamity (as most paceless defenders do tbf) ....and he seems like the sort of person who could make one mistake early and just go to shambles...with the cameras constantly panning on his ugly deflated mug every 5 minutes. ( I can already see this happening :o)

Jokes aside, wouldnt mess with the back 4 seeing as they've managed to keep a clean sheet. I would definitely be looking for a way to incorporate Crouch into the starting line up though.

[simonbyrneno.4]

I see no reason why Carrick should be in ahead of Barry. Plus I would have Rooney in for either Defoe/Crouch, although he was so bad today there is an argument to drop him.

Other than that, part of me agrees that a shakeup is what we need.

Cause carrick is better at keeping possesion of the ball and linking defence to midfield. Of have them both to be honest. Heskey sacrifised! Line up as a 451. Every player in what would be my first choice England team play it!

James

Johnson

cole

terry

anyone but carragher

carrick

Barry

lampard

cole

gerrard

Rooney

Lennon brought on after 60 mins as impact sub for cole

[Higgzy]

And a shaking up is shoving in as many spurs players as possible? Surprised you havent put king in there

Fwiw, Carragher wasnt bad at all today. Dawson does not have the experience for this sort of game. He has always looked like a defender who was one step away from calamity (as most paceless defenders do tbf) ....and he seems like the sort of person who could make one mistake early and just go to shambles...with the cameras constantly panning on his ugly deflated mug every 5 minutes. ( I can already see this happening :o)

Jokes aside, wouldnt mess with the back 4 seeing as they've managed to keep a clean sheet. I would definitely be looking for a way to incorporate Crouch into the starting line up though.

We have to mess with the back 4 as Carragher is suspended.

For Weds I'd go: James; Johnson, Dawson, Terry, Cole; Barry, Lampard; Lennon Gerrard, Cole; Rooney.

[Woodmansee]

Rooney as sole striker when hes been choking? No thank you!

[dovEs]

I'd go with Gerrard on the right, Barry behind Lampard in centre mid, Crouch and Defoe up front with Rooney off them to the left Man U two seasons ago style with Cole pushing up more often and Barry dropping to cover him.

[aggressive minor]

Pires- Carragher is suspended. So it's either Upson or Dawson.

Dawson is the man in form, but Upson has the international experience. I think today would have been perfect for 30mins of Beckham, the amount of times he has got us out of trouble with a killer delivery, no more unfortunately

[glory utd]

So glory utd - you've have Defoe leading the line on his own in a 4-3-3? Not at all convinced by that idea.

I'm just not at all convinced that he would be the kind of striker you could play up top by himself.

I know he's not that type of striker and is missing a lot when he's not scoring. The reason I'd have him is because he wouldn't really be forced to get involved as a normal lone striker would considering the players around him. If Rooney cut well in and Gerrard was let roam free as in my defensive team I don't think it would be a problem if Defoe went missing. I'd have him there as a person to put the ball in the net. There's not many of those players in the England squad. In the attacking team he'd have Cole cutting in, Rooney and Gerrard getting forward behind him.

Once he has the creative support from the players behind him I think he can do it. This is a team that wouldn't be smashing 50 yard passes to him or whatever.

[Pires777]

Whoops. In that case you go with Dawson then. Although I think Capello might do the stubborn thing and go with Upson (to prove he made the right decision by leaving out Dawson in the first place :confused:)

Spot on about the set pieces. How many times did Gerard/Lampard fail to beat the first man? Luckily for the US we have a competent deadball specialist in Donnovan...you cant underestimate the importance of players like him!

[SCIAG]

how come Milner wasn't playing? Still recovering from the bug?

Because we can't hope to reasonably fit four central midfielders in the side?

[brett.spurs]

Whatever side/formation we go with won't be good enough, I'd just prefer to see balance coupled with players who obviously have a good understanding with eachother over ramming in as many 'big' names as possible.

[Rio_V]

Is there a reason why England aren't trying to get to the byline on the wings and hit crosses over? Seems like they are playing right thru the middle most of the time and it is clearly not working. Oh, and Crouch in already. Dawson will do a job.