Sports scientists, nutritionists etc in future FM's

Just having a ponder over potential areas of the game that can be expanded upon in future releases.

From the Valeriy Lobanovskyi's scientific analysis through to the Milan lab and today's massive investments into sports science and nutrition, football is heavily reliant on technology and cutting edge research.

Why not expand the training and physio modules of the game to represent these factors in our backroom staff?

We can already hire coaches, physios and scouts but what about other specialists?

Sports scientists could suggest training regimes in the backroom advice area (general or player specific), outline programmes for specific players to extend their careers, or delve deeper into the psychology of your players and suggesting team talk, press conference and interaction strategies.

Nutritionists could add another focus to a player's training in a similar manner to the 'training focus' option but combined with the swap-in/swap-out nature of the 'match prep' feature. They could also focus on deterring injuries, pushing up fitness, concentration and other areas, but perhaps at the slight cost of other stats.

I'm not trying to offer up another one of those 'lifestyle' features such as manger lives or similar - i'm not advocating a half-time orange launching mini-game, that's for sure.

There be downsides and consequences to these new staff types and roles too:

Cost - Sports science departments are naturally an expensive option to both set up and maintain, open to only the richest clubs in their most fully featured forms. There could however be smaller programmes for lower league teams in a similar manner to how we can already set up Academys, increase or decrease our youth football budgets, and so on.

Player reaction/morale - Much like heavy training, some player's will dislike the intrusion on their lifestyle that a nutritionist brings, or react poorly to scientists prodding and poking him (Owen Hargreaves anyone?).

Wrong suggestions - Of course, the better the facilities and staff, the less likely this is to happen, but as happened to the likes of Del Piero through the Milan Lab, his extra bulk, rather making him a tougher opposition for defenders, caused the player to suffer some pretty horrendous injuries.

Drop in stats - You wanted to decrease the post-match recovery time of your squad but star striker Joe Bloggs becomes injury prone or struggles to train properly in the week.

I'm sure there a number of ways this could be put into practise or developed further.

What do you guys think? Another unnecessary layer to get in the way of the game or a further step in giving us more in-depth control and interactions with our clubs, squads, teams and players?

Not overly keen on the idea to be honest but I can understand why some might be. As long as the assistants can take care of things like this when the user doesn't want to then I'm not against the idea but i'm not sure that enough people would be interested to make this a worthwhile introduction.

I won't say an absolute no for this one. Some more depth is never a bad thing in my opinion,as long as it doesn't take away too much time from the main features of the game.

The reason I'd personally say no is becase right now the only thing that I don't need is another parameter that can cause injuries. The game is already overboard on that matter and bones have to be made from toothpicks in the FM universe.

I like this idea, maybe introduce a level of medical facilities and more depth regarding the training facilites itself though i can imagine this sort of feature isn't a high priority for SI.

Yeah, I agree that if it just resulted in more injuries it'd be a no-go. As with most other features too, from press conferences to set piece organisation, you should be able to either leave this alone, set to default or under the management of an assistant.

I think we do need ways of replicating the technological and medical advances around modern football in our games though. Giggs, Zanetti and even the likes of Drogba are playing at a higher level and higher intensity for much longer than previous generations of players - much of this is down to new and alternative methods to extend their top level playing careers, from yoga to specialised nutrition and conditioning.

Then you've also got Messi - he wouldn't be the player he is today without his growth therapy as a child.

Maybe sports scientists could be tasked with coming up with more rehab solutions too - cutting down injury recovery time and stat loss on a player or squad-wide level?

I remember seeing the gizmos and gadgets used by Manchester United's backroom team, such as underwater exercise bikes and other things, on one of their 'Inside Carrington' documentaries. Being able to pour money into specialist staff and facilities to help prevent or solve an injury crisis would be a nice addition. Of course, there needs to be an element of risk to match the potential rewards of these areas, otherwise it'd just be an instant

Maybe manager's could assign projects to their scientists and nutritions in a similar way to how we currently set scouting taks for scouts?

Not overly keen tbh, I think this gain has expanded enough now and needs to focus on improving what it has.

That's fair enough. I wouldn't want anything new added either until the key areas of the game were polished further.

From the point of view of someone who will be a fully qualified sports scientist later in the year I say it could be a good addition to the game.

However my if my job searching has taught me anything it is that most clubs below the top flight rarely employ more than a few professional sports scientists if any at all, the rest of the staff is usually made up of Part time interns who are basically working for peanuts whilst doing their masters or PHD. for examply Swansea were recently advertising for unpaid graduates to work for peanuts whilst being funded through their masters degree. The problem with implementing this in the game is that clubs would have to allocate limits on both full and part-time staff for the same role whichh the game does not already do, you would then need to look at the finances of these staff, Full time Sports scientists are on £30k to £50k a year, interns are usually on anything from basic costs to £15k but the club finances would also need to reflect tuition fees into the equation too.

As it is I would suggest adding a sports science dept. to the facilities available in game, with an annual funding cost reflecting the level of facilities and staff involved rather than actually adding a new staff role.

I have an idea for how nutritionists could be implemented into the game- and I think they should be, considering how much of an impact they have had since Arsene took over at Arsenal.

There should be a sliding scale similar to the training intensity bar, which would decide how strict a players diet is. Having it set to very strict would improve a player's physical stats, but may make unprofessional players unhappy. Having it set to less strict may make some players happy, but more determined players may be concerned over the lack of discipline.

The ability of the club's nutritionist would improve the gains from having a strict diet, while having a poor nutritionist might end up with players declining earlier and having longer recovery times.

Just coming back to this idea of new staff types and roles, I've had a few more ideas that would hopefully more inclusive of the developments and new trends in modern football's backroom staff.

In addition to Sports Scientists and Nutritionists, why not bring in Alternative Therapists (Giggs and Rio are apparently using Pilates to help prolong their careers), Sports Psychologists (the next step in mental coaching?) and Data Analysts (more like advanced assistants to your tactical advisors and analysis).

From the point of view of someone who will be a fully qualified sports scientist later in the year I say it could be a good addition to the game.

However my if my job searching has taught me anything it is that most clubs below the top flight rarely employ more than a few professional sports scientists if any at all, the rest of the staff is usually made up of Part time interns who are basically working for peanuts whilst doing their masters or PHD. for examply Swansea were recently advertising for unpaid graduates to work for peanuts whilst being funded through their masters degree. The problem with implementing this in the game is that clubs would have to allocate limits on both full and part-time staff for the same role whichh the game does not already do, you would then need to look at the finances of these staff, Full time Sports scientists are on £30k to £50k a year, interns are usually on anything from basic costs to £15k but the club finances would also need to reflect tuition fees into the equation too.

As it is I would suggest adding a sports science dept. to the facilities available in game, with an annual funding cost reflecting the level of facilities and staff involved rather than actually adding a new staff role.

I think this is a really good point, and perhaps we could manage in a similar way to how we request improved training/youth facilities, and increase/decrease our youth network/junior coaching.

It may seem harsh to lower league clubs, but having such high end opportunities for development at the top might help to add more variety and customisation into the game, giving clubs more of an identity and added new layers to a manager's experiences and career at each level. It could also create some interesting gameplay whereby a human manager is parachuted into a struggling giant, relegated from the top flight, who can no longer afford their hi-tech facilities and staff - cutting these luxuries to get back to the top could make for an even more dramatic and engrossing game.

I have an idea for how nutritionists could be implemented into the game- and I think they should be, considering how much of an impact they have had since Arsene took over at Arsenal.

There should be a sliding scale similar to the training intensity bar, which would decide how strict a players diet is. Having it set to very strict would improve a player's physical stats, but may make unprofessional players unhappy. Having it set to less strict may make some players happy, but more determined players may be concerned over the lack of discipline.

The ability of the club's nutritionist would improve the gains from having a strict diet, while having a poor nutritionist might end up with players declining earlier and having longer recovery times.

Maybe nutrition could be used similar to the "individual training focus" options? Certain players, based on mental stats, would find diets an intrusion on their private lives and hit out at the club and management team.

There also needs to be an element of failure or risk to all this too. Of course hiring the very best sports scientists, nutritionists etc. should give you the best results, but what if paying cheap for an intern with semi-decent stats could lead you to setting incorrect diets, training regimes or mental coaching for your playing staff? Hands on managers could of course step in and sort it themselves but it'd be reach if just relying on your backroom could backfire if they aren't skilled or experienced enough to make the right choices. Again, this would be attributes driven.

What do people think? Would this a be a welcome addition in a few years time once more pressing issues have been fixed?

I'm not sure that this idea needs implementing at the very deepest level involving actual staff, but I wouldn't mind seeing medical facilities and sports science labs appear in game as an option for wealthy clubs with corresponding benefits like world class injury treatment, reducing player declination due to age and so on. It certainly shouldn't exist as yet another means to cause injuries.

Why not? It's part of modern football clubs these days.

We now know FM13 will bring in active Directors of Football, Chief Scouts, Heads of Youth Development and specialist youth team coaches. These new staff members, from what I can gather from the pre-release information, don't just add to your backroom staff but allow managers to specialise the back-end approach of their club as a whole e.g. prioritising local youth development etc.

Following this line of thinking, the next step would be to offer us even more potential for backroom customisation and club structuring through recruiting more specialists.

Just imagine: we could appoint a "Head Coach" staff member similar to René Meulensteen at Manchester United, Head Physios or Heads of Fitness/Player Health/Player Condition, or maybe even dedicated club doctors like Zaf Iqbal at Liverpool. These "line manager" type staff would, by nature of their personal strengths and working styles, allow you to dictate the direction of the systems within each area of the club.

For example...

Managers seeking advanced sports science (such as the Milan Lab) would hire a Head of Player Fitness/Health/Condition with the necessary expertise and interest in the area to help keep old legs running for longer. They could then be aided by a team of physios or sports scientists staff members with their own strengths (nutrition, biometrics just like coaches are skilled in attack coaching, motivation etc.)

Alternatively, managers may wish to adopt less scientific and lab-based approach, seeking professionals skilled with yoga and other alternative methods to the club. For instance, Giggs has credited yoga as a bit influence on his longevity while at the more risible end of the scale you'd have Glenn Hoddle-esque psychics and homeopaths.

As with extra training, some players might respond badly to methods they dislike or disagree with.

Moving away from fitness, a Head Coach (such as Meulensteen) with their own vision and methods could allow greater training variety and customisation. Meulensteen for example is credited with bring the Coerver Method to Manchester United - a coaching approach that has benefitted the likes of Tom Cleverley and Danny Welbeck in their development and arguably pushed the club's focus even more towards individual technique at the expense of United's previous capacity for domination through power. Also look at Barca's La Masia set up - a Head Coach in FM with a similar attitude and mindset to a Head of Youth Development could allow managers to implant a similar overarching blueprint throughout the core of a club.

Once again, is this something that would interest people or could such new ideas make these areas too deep, complex and potentially annoying?

We now know FM13 will bring in active Directors of Football, Chief Scouts, Heads of Youth Development and specialist youth team coaches. These new staff members, from what I can gather from the pre-release information, don't just add to your backroom staff but allow managers to specialise the back-end approach of their club as a whole e.g. prioritising local youth development etc.

Following this line of thinking, the next step would be to offer us even more potential for backroom customisation and club structuring through recruiting more specialists.

Just imagine: we could appoint a "Head Coach" staff member similar to René Meulensteen at Manchester United, Head Physios or Heads of Fitness/Player Health/Player Condition, or maybe even dedicated club doctors like Zaf Iqbal at Liverpool. These "line manager" type staff would, by nature of their personal strengths and working styles, allow you to dictate the direction of the systems within each area of the club.

For example...

Managers seeking advanced sports science (such as the Milan Lab) would hire a Head of Player Fitness/Health/Condition with the necessary expertise and interest in the area to help keep old legs running for longer. They could then be aided by a team of physios or sports scientists staff members with their own strengths (nutrition, biometrics just like coaches are skilled in attack coaching, motivation etc.)

Alternatively, managers may wish to adopt less scientific and lab-based approach, seeking professionals skilled with yoga and other alternative methods to the club. For instance, Giggs has credited yoga as a bit influence on his longevity while at the more risible end of the scale you'd have Glenn Hoddle-esque psychics and homeopaths.

As with extra training, some players might respond badly to methods they dislike or disagree with.

Moving away from fitness, a Head Coach (such as Meulensteen) with their own vision and methods could allow greater training variety and customisation. Meulensteen for example is credited with bring the Coerver Method to Manchester United - a coaching approach that has benefitted the likes of Tom Cleverley and Danny Welbeck in their development and arguably pushed the club's focus even more towards individual technique at the expense of United's previous capacity for domination through power. Also look at Barca's La Masia set up - a Head Coach in FM with a similar attitude and mindset to a Head of Youth Development could allow managers to implant a similar overarching blueprint throughout the core of a club.

Once again, is this something that would interest people or could such new ideas make these areas too deep, complex and potentially annoying?

You always get people saying "it's not the managers job" to do this and that, like Stadium Builders and Merchandise sales. This, however, falls under the job of the manager, and because it does I think it should be considered. There have been posts in the past and even one I read today saying "do our actions really matter", this would answer that question for sure. Being able to influence the development and health of the players is something I think we should all be wanting to do as "football managers" so I don't understand the negativity towards this idea.

I think that this is a brilliant idea with lots of potential and, yes, along the way people might say "this is too complex" but then you're only responsible for hiring these people and telling them what you want - not having to carry out the tasks yourself.

Why not? It's part of modern football clubs these days.

aggreed mate.

You always get people saying "it's not the managers job" to do this and that, like Stadium Builders and Merchandise sales. This, however, falls under the job of the manager, and because it does I think it should be considered. There have been posts in the past and even one I read today saying "do our actions really matter", this would answer that question for sure. Being able to influence the development and health of the players is something I think we should all be wanting to do as "football managers" so I don't understand the negativity towards this idea.

I think that this is a brilliant idea with lots of potential and, yes, along the way people might say "this is too complex" but then you're only responsible for hiring these people and telling them what you want - not having to carry out the tasks yourself.

I'm never quite sure whether I'm just an FM control freak or football realism nut, haha. Good to hear others might have an appetite for something like this too.

And you're right too - managers would be delegating to their hired experts. If managers didn't want any of this they wouldn't have to bring these types of staff members in at all, which should also be a valid way to manage and play too.

I'm a fan. I would like it limited, though, to maybe hiring the main staff (head of sport science etc), have it part of the facilities, and have any real affect included as part of the training regime.

Essentially, I wouldn't want a whole section of the game devoted to sports science, as there is for training, but would like to see it included as a small part of the already existing training. Then you can control the main personnel, better facilities and control how much effort and money is put into it. Then when you get feedback on training, you could get suggestions from the sports science guys as well as the coaches on what training a player might benefit from.

Also, I love the idea of rich clubs being able to build dedicated facilities for youth, and the manager being able to build a legacy for youth and determine a style for the club (like barcelona). This would be a big benefit for those of us who like a long term save, and are almost a reward for sticking to a game that long I think. It's annoying that once you reach a certain level of financial success, you build the best facilities and then you just have to wait to see if players will come through. Theres no involvement. I would love some more involvement on things like this, nothing is better in the game than bringing through a world class player from your youth team.

I'm a fan. I would like it limited, though, to maybe hiring the main staff (head of sport science etc), have it part of the facilities, and have any real affect included as part of the training regime.

Essentially, I wouldn't want a whole section of the game devoted to sports science, as there is for training, but would like to see it included as a small part of the already existing training. Then you can control the main personnel, better facilities and control how much effort and money is put into it. Then when you get feedback on training, you could get suggestions from the sports science guys as well as the coaches on what training a player might benefit from.

Definitely. It should add to our experience rather than take over or dominate it.

By the sounds of it, hiring the right person with the right attributes/tendencies for the Head of Youth and Director of Football positions is key for how those departments work and their effects on your club and players. I'd like a similar approach to this.

It would be interesting for smaller teams too who wouldn't be able to afford sports science AND excellent youth development AND other optional backroom additions. For anyone saying that that would be unrealistic, just look at Sam Allardyce and how he prioritised sports science at Bolton and Luton's recent new developments.

Definitely. It should add to our experience rather than take over or dominate it.

By the sounds of it, hiring the right person with the right attributes/tendencies for the Head of Youth and Director of Football positions is key for how those departments work and their effects on your club and players. I'd like a similar approach to this.

It would be interesting for smaller teams too who wouldn't be able to afford sports science AND excellent youth development AND other optional backroom additions. For anyone saying that that would be unrealistic, just look at Sam Allardyce and how he prioritised sports science at Bolton and Luton's recent new developments.

Exactly. As a west ham fan I know all about what sam is doing and has done to implement his sports science into our club. But also I have heard he hasnt been able to bring in the number of backroom people he wants due to money. In a future FM game, it would be great to improve your backroom staff in this area, in the same way I build up my coaching staff over time on the current game.

I'm really hoping that the new training module makes coach recruitment even more important - not just with attributes but also their play style and approach. That'd set a great precedent for this sort of idea to work.

It would be good to see a bit more depth in this area but only for certain clubs. There's no way you should be able to change a persons diet in the lower leagues, which I know has not been mentioned.

I agree it would be a great feature to ad to the physio side of things - with the sports science side reducing treatment of injuries and even preventing them in the first place by increasing natural fitness and strength

Should be left to physio or head physio (if intoduced) though and the manager would only get involved if one of those suggests a treatment or regime

Make sure it appears in a special "Anal Version" if the do; so I can steer clear of it. There is quite enough micro-management features in the game as it is.

Make sure it appears in a special "Anal Version" if the do; so I can steer clear of it. There is quite enough micro-management features in the game as it is.

Not really, I mean the training modules this year have become less "miro-management-y" so this would balance for the loss of the sliders I think!

Messi > Player's Training and diet > Diet selection > Feed the player only protein powder from now on.

Success!

I'm really hoping that the new training module makes coach recruitment even more important - not just with attributes but also their play style and approach. That'd set a great precedent for this sort of idea to work.

There isnt a new training module; just a new simplified training interface.

I agree it would be a great feature to ad to the physio side of things - with the sports science side reducing treatment of injuries and even preventing them in the first place by increasing natural fitness and strength

Should be left to physio or head physio (if intoduced) though and the manager would only get involved if one of those suggests a treatment or regime

No one outside of the bible can reduce the incidence of injuries. If anything, there are more injuries now than ever before as weightlifting regimes have made tendon and ligament injuries more frequent and stronger players are more likely to injure through bad tackling.

This i an idea that wouldnt work in the game because there is no obvious way to 1)know what if any effect sports science has IRL add 2)there is even less an obvious way to code it.

No one outside of the bible can reduce the incidence of injuries.

Hence the new "Faith Healer" staff role.

People actually WANT nutritional balance in the game? My mind is boggled.

Sometimes a Sports Scientists is just a glorified fitness coach.

Perhaps SI can have the better fitness coaches be hireable only as Sports Scientists for more money, so a 5 star fitness coach would be a sports science coach and others just fitness coaches. And/or they can limit fitness coaches to 4 star and only if they pass some sports science exams and get a sports science contacts then they can have their last star.

Perhaps also have the sports scientist in charge of coaching players coming back from injuries and give then a small chance of stopping recurring injuries (where they make sence and not flus or colds) and perhaps give them a boost in the time it takes for them to get fit.

I see it more of a role between the physio and the fitness training.

For example, if a player is not match fit, the fitness trainer can refer them to the sports scientist to get them up to speed.

If you don't have a sports scientist at the club it would take them longer to get to match fitness.

Similarly, if you have a player recovering from an injury it could take longer for them to recover if you haven't anyone appointed in that role.

And for some clubs there simply won't be any budget for a role of this kind, depending on reputation etc.

The most important thing is: a single multilevel-interaction "Q&A style" with each of them. This is what we need, really. More staffers, it's never enough. I want more staff to talk to. Talk talk talk, and talk again. And don't forget the gardener!

Who said extra levels of interaction are a neccessity for this to work? I just think that it'd be great to have the option to customise your backroom staff with specialists if you so wish. It's a part of modern football and wouldn't really need micro-managing.

What if, like Sir Alex Ferguson, you wish to bring in a new Head Coach with very unique methods (René Meulensteen & the Coerver Method)?

What if, like Arsene Wenger, you wish to revolutionise the nutrition of your players?

What if you want to create your own take on the "Milan Lab" or offer older players alternative conditioning methods such as yoga?

What if none of this bothered you and you just wanted to get on and manage like you always have? Don't hire specialists. Simple. This should be a way of customising and tweaking your backroom strategy rather than grabbing unrealistic bonus abilities or other daft "gamey" boosts. As I said above too, there should be risk and reward in terms of fitness, morale and other elements for all these specialist methods too.

This wouldn't have to be managed by a pedantic array of sliders or some other complex micro-management system. You're a football manager - you'd be hiring these experts to take responsibility and run these departments for you. Recruitment would be key. After that, you could oversee your staff just as you do with the current rosters of coaches and scouts.

Who said extra levels of interaction are a neccessity for this to work? I just think that it'd be great to have the option to customise your backroom staff with specialists if you so wish. It's a part of modern football and wouldn't really need micro-managing.

What if, like Sir Alex Ferguson, you wish to bring in a new Head Coach with very unique methods (René Meulensteen & the Coerver Method)?

What if, like Arsene Wenger, you wish to revolutionise the nutrition of your players?

What if you want to create your own take on the "Milan Lab" or offer older players alternative conditioning methods such as yoga?

What if none of this bothered you and you just wanted to get on and manage like you always have? Don't hire specialists. Simple. This should be a way of customising and tweaking your backroom strategy rather than grabbing unrealistic bonus abilities or other daft "gamey" boosts. As I said above too, there should be risk and reward in terms of fitness, morale and other elements for all these specialist methods too.

This wouldn't have to be managed by a pedantic array of sliders or some other complex micro-management system. You're a football manager - you'd be hiring these experts to take responsibility and run these departments for you. Recruitment would be key. After that, you could oversee your staff just as you do with the current rosters of coaches and scouts.

These are merely trendy hirings and there is no way to measure what effect they have IRL; hence, how would it be possible to code? Its not a bad idea on the surface; its just impossible to implement into the game.

These are merely trendy hirings and there is no way to measure what effect they have IRL; hence, how would it be possible to code? Its not a bad idea on the surface; its just impossible to implement into the game.

I think too many similar appointments/backroom innovations have taken place (and had major effects) throughout the history of football for these to be written off as "trendy" but I take your point about implementation, although I'd say it would be difficult rather than impossible. Then again, something is only worth doing if it's done well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

interesting video related to topic :-)

I will get a:

- fish tank

- eye specialist to increase players peripheral vision

- Sir Clive to help with footy motivation even though he knows Rugby and has cr@p athletic motivational skills

- Jamie Oliver in the club restaurant....no chicken dippers

- Lucozade

- britta water filters

<scrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech>

nah, I'll just focus on the footy elements. I guess there already is a restaurant tycoon game

Nice ide in honesty but likely a bit too extreme and moves away from core football management.

I will get a:

- fish tank

- eye specialist to increase players peripheral vision

- Sir Clive to help with footy motivation even though he knows Rugby and has cr@p athletic motivational skills

- Jamie Oliver in the club restaurant....no chicken dippers

- Lucozade

- britta water filters

<scrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech>

nah, I'll just focus on the footy elements. I guess there already is a restaurant tycoon game

Nice ide in honesty but likely a bit too extreme and moves away from core football management.

actually when bernd schuster managed real madrid he send the whole squad to the doctor get their eyes checked out

I like the idea. Could be difficult to implement however I think the idea could be used in future versions.

I will get a:

- fish tank

- eye specialist to increase players peripheral vision

- Sir Clive to help with footy motivation even though he knows Rugby and has cr@p athletic motivational skills

- Jamie Oliver in the club restaurant....no chicken dippers

- Lucozade

- britta water filters

<scrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech>

nah, I'll just focus on the footy elements. I guess there already is a restaurant tycoon game

Nice ide in honesty but likely a bit too extreme and moves away from core football management.

See, I understand the vitriol when people suggest wives, girlfriends, being a player yourself and other lifestyle fluff that is totally unrelated to the game, but bring up "restaurant tycoon" for this idea is ridiculous. Football Manager is always going to striving for more realism in some form or direction and this idea that very much is in-line with what's actually happening in football.

As I said above, this could take the form of simply hiring staff as we do already, the only difference being that they would be very specialist. No one has suggested choosing the flavour or brand of isotonic drink or bringing in celebrity chefs. We all enjoy a laugh after work but this isn't the off topic forum, and I'm not suggesting turning this into a 1st person RPG or something utterly daft.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhAyX81zP2M

interesting video related to topic :-)

Seen this and it's very cool! I'd love to be able to ask the board to invest more in hi-tech facilities such as this, differentiated the backrooms of clubs beyond just "World Class" facilities, "average" facilities and so on.

I will get a:

- fish tank

- eye specialist to increase players peripheral vision

- Sir Clive to help with footy motivation even though he knows Rugby and has cr@p athletic motivational skills

- Jamie Oliver in the club restaurant....no chicken dippers

- Lucozade

- britta water filters

<scrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeech>

nah, I'll just focus on the footy elements. I guess there already is a restaurant tycoon game

Nice ide in honesty but likely a bit too extreme and moves away from core football management.

In what possible way does it "move away" from core football management? This IS the core of football management - managing the players. Players are the only thing in the game nobody can complain we should have complete control over, if there is a way we can increase how to influence their ability then why shouldn't it be considered as a new idea.

In what possible way does it "move away" from core football management? This IS the core of football management - managing the players. Players are the only thing in the game nobody can complain we should have complete control over, if there is a way we can increase how to influence their ability then why shouldn't it be considered as a new idea.

Because no one has complete control over the players IRL; they are employees, not slaves. And there is no way to measure whether the suggested OP actually has any effect.

Foreget nutritionists, there should be "chemistry consultants". That one 17yo centreback youngster can't put on enough strength? Some "vitamin" injections will fix that up in a few months. That one wingback runs out of breath after 65 minutes? Some hemoglobin "supplements" and he'll run all day long. Some players can't focus the entire match? Let's give them some assuredly legal stimulants to help them. Side effects may include spasms, insomnia, enlarged pupils and addiction.

Foreget nutritionists, there should be "chemistry consultants". That one 17yo centreback youngster can't put on enough strength? Some "vitamin" injections will fix that up in a few months. That one wingback runs out of breath after 65 minutes? Some hemoglobin "supplements" and he'll run all day long. Some players can't focus the entire match? Let's give them some assuredly legal stimulants to help them. Side effects may include spasms, insomnia, enlarged pupils and addiction.

And grape sized naughty bits

Because no one has complete control over the players IRL; they are employees, not slaves. And there is no way to measure whether the suggested OP actually has any effect.

You're taking what I've said and twisting it. To be clear, and as I would explain to my 4 year-old, by "complete control" I mean while they are at "work" and over their diet. Unless you're telling me clubs don't care what their players diet is? Are you saying the Manager wouldn't care that his players are piling on the pounds because they're having a Toby Carvery with all the trimmings every night?

Now the exact cause/effect model that would be used I'm not sure of, but in simple terms if a player gains weight quickly because of Mr Toby he may become unfit causing natural fitness, pace, acceleration, agility to all go down.

Core FM is about the players themselves and how they maintain and develop their skills as footballers, sports scientists and nutritionists play a major role in that these days and as a result they should be included within the back room structure of the game.

That is what I meant.

Now to what you've said regarding the OP:

But alas back to the point, old Milan. Yes they are old, ridiculously old when you think about it but how have they managed to play together for so long? Paolo Maldini is coming up to 40 and has floated the possibility of playing another season. A lot of this has been put down to the Milan Lab. Since its introduction in 2002 the praise showered on this elusive institution has been endless — some have even credited it with giving players 5 extra playing years to their careers. But what is it and are these accolades completely justifiable? Can a glorfied physio room really make the difference to a players career?

In 2000 Milan bought Redondo from Real Madrid for 30 million Euros. At his peak, it was anticipated as an awesome signing of one of the best athletes playing in Europe. In the previous season he had helped Madrid win the Champions League so the excitement of the signing (and obviously the price paid) was huge. Remember Raul’s third goal against Man Utd with the ‘backheel of Old Trafford’ ? He completely bossed Roy Keane and won UEFA 1999-2000 most valuable player. Moving to Milan, his body crumbled and he played 16 games in 4 years – Milan vowed to never spend that much money on a player again.

This was the start of the Milan Lab, a ‘High Tech Scientific Research Centre set up by AC Milan’ focusing on the psychological and physical attributes of the players, with the idea that each player is unique and therefore should follow their own individually created program. Run by a Belgian chiropractor and practitioner of applied kinesiology, the lab aims to reduce injuries by intricate analysis of each player, from the way they jump to the type of shoes and clothes they wear. Every detail makes a difference and according to an interview made in the Financial Times there has been a reduction of traumatic injuries by 90%.

The Milan lab has a huge influence on who they buy and squad selection. Supposedly their data is so detailed that it can even suggest when a player needs to be rested due to a high possibility of injury. And the majority of this information can be created by a simple 8 minute test and software created in association with Microsoft – sounds a little far fetched to me, I wonder how much of this is marketing bull ****? But if you look at the ages of the first team squad, the physio room has surely played a part in keeping this team together (ages as of March 15th 2008):

Dida — 34 Cafu — 37 Maldini — 39

Kaladze — 30 Emerson — 31 Pato — 18

Gattuso- 30 Inzaghi — 35 Seedorf — 31

Gilardino — 25 Nesta – 31 Kalac — 35

Simic — 32 Jankulovski — 31 Favalli — 36

Gourcuff — 21 Pirlo — 28 Kaka — 25

Ambrosini — 30 Bonera — 26 Serginho — 36

Fiori — 38 Digao — 22 Brocchi — 32

Ba- 34 Damian — 18 Paloschi — 18

Oddo — 31 Ronaldo — 31 Average age: 29

Read more at http://soccerlens.com/milan-lab-ac-milan/6781/#q6fOabbX8mWWsgEK.99

I'd say that measures up quite nicely wouldn't you?

Thanks for sharing that Dave80.

Here's a few more links for those unconvinced.

"How Valeriy Lobanovskyi's appliance of science won hearts and trophies" by Jonathan Wilson in The Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/may/12/valeriy-lobanovskyi-dynamo-kyiv

Tim Vickery on how backroom innovation has always been key for Brazil (their methods would have been "cutting edge Sports Science" at the time in relation to what was going on elsewhere in football): http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/timvickery/2010/03/fitness_the_key_for_brazillian.html

Manchester City - the sports science behind the champions: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18887653

"How Arsene Wenger changed English football" on Life's A Pitch: http://www.lifesapitch.co.uk/laptv/the-big-question/arsene-wenger-changed-the-face-of-football/

A quote from Mr Wenger himself from: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/may/14/sport.comment

"Jam rolypoly and custard? It's silly to work hard the whole week and then spoil it by not preparing properly before the game. As a coach, you can influence the diet of your players. I can teach the players what they do wrong without knowing it is wrong."

On how data analysts are revolutionising football: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/9471db52-97bb-11e0-9c37-00144feab49a.html#axzz29XfVEqoF

Giggs on yoga: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/27/ryan-giggs-yoga-manchester-united

"Michel Bruyninckx leads way in developing mental capacity" from Sports Illustrated: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/soccer/12/17/blizzard.sinnott.mental/index.html

It could be a good thing to include for fitness etc as it is an extra dimension to the game.

This is all too much!

Stick to the football elements, there is plenty (too much maybe) there already with which to occupy the most meticulous gamer. Forget diets, yoga, phsycology, etc.

Jesus!

paradox games don't do football management sims, but if they did they'd probably be the.....

I'd say that measures up quite nicely wouldn't you?

Other factors that might be in play here:

Italian clubs play fewer matches than English clubs

The Italian style of play is slower and less physical than English football

This side is loaded with Hall of Fame players

They signed a bunch of players with excellent physical genetics

If anything, the game should better try to replicate the unique style of play in each nation. This Milan club wouldnt have fared well in the EPL.

Other factors that might be in play here:

Italian clubs play fewer matches than English clubs

The Italian style of play is slower and less physical than English football

This side is loaded with Hall of Fame players

They signed a bunch of players with excellent physical genetics

If anything, the game should better try to replicate the unique style of play in each nation. This Milan club wouldn't have fared well in the EPL.

You're taking one league in one country whereas the poster below me showed numerous examples of how SS&N has been used. Where is your evidence that SS&N isn't used, or that it isn't an integral part of a coach and managers tools to get the best out of most players.

As for your argument regarding "excellent physical genetics", you're undermining yourself - (from my post) "The Milan lab has a huge influence on who they buy and squad selection." Now I'm not saying these specific players were signed because of it because the ML wasn't introduced until after many were signed however it shows how useful a tool this can be wouldn't you say?