Super Keepers have killed my enjoyment of this game

(FM 11, 11.3)

Apologies in advance, I do not expect some time of "sort it out SI" or summat, but this erm, bug I guess has single handily destroyed my enjoyment of this game since release, after what has to be hours of such massive rage (of the nerd variety no less) and misery building up I simply have to let it out in this rant.

Where to begin, got FM 11 and played with it since release day, one thing was always, always crippled me, super keepers. When I first started I of course tried to do everything "legit" i.e no genie scout, no FMRTE etc, all tactics made entirely by myself etc. I did moderately well, but one constant thorn in my side was super keepers, common serious where the 15 CCCs, with 0 or 1 converted, 10 shots on target etc. This was quite a pain but surly I was just doing something wrong, maybe my forwards were lacking quality or my training schedules didn't have enough dedicated to shooting, I adjusted these but with no positive effects.

As the seasons went on this got increasingly annoyed as it seemed whenever I and my team did everything right in a match the game just said " ok, we don't want you to win this game, I'm turning on super keeper mode for the next 90mins, so I'm sure you know what that means, feel free to go and have a coffee or something while you completely dominate the opposition but every single time you shoot, no matter how good the shot is, no matter what the position of the keeper is, no matter how much pressure your player might or might not be under, no matter how good the player in question is, no matter how good the goal keeper in question is and no matter how much of a "sitter" the chance in question is, the goalkeeper will save it, every, single, time. Or enough times to deny you the win anyway."

In rare times a "lol ref" as I like to call them is thrown in, its quite funny (in a sick kind of way) watching your team dominate very aspect of a game but get hammered 3-0 or 4-0 etc because of the super keeper and lol ref tag team. As if watching my team get robbed isn't enough they have to essentially urinate on my team and plummet their morale to make things harder in the next games. One time comes to mind a very long time ago on my 1st save where I was beaten 2-0 with something like 20 shots on target, 2 woodwork hits etc and the opposition didn't manage a single shot on target all game, their 1st goal being an OG from my defender via freak deflection and another a pen given by the lol ref (which obv wasn't) that bounced of the post and went back in off the back of my diving keeper in another OG. With the super keeper having a rating in the 9s, 9.7 I beleave it was and the game saying something like "(insert name here) will be under fire from wolves fans this evening after being more then favourable with the Home side in the majority of his decisions". I later checked his match rating to be a massive 1. But to be honest my main gripe isn't with the lol refs, sure they suck big time but their plenty of games in real life where refs have stinkers, They do have good games to and while I do think they perhaps are a bit more frequent then they should be in game this is probably down to my self-diagnoses of worst luck in the world.

Anyway eventually I resorted to the "cheating devices" as they are often called, sure It was cheating but its my save and my game, and im quite happy to not be 100% legit if it means I am enjoying the game a lot more. I went full on with this, using the most popular tactics on these very forums, the same with training schedules, using genie scouts to get the best players and so forth. (List of things ive used at the bottom). Yet this did not solve my problem, in fact it seemed to make it even worse. Perhaps this is subconscious and the rates of super keepers I get are still the same but it feels like super keeper rates have increased tenfold since I started using other peoples stuff.

Sure my permanences sky rocketed, as I though they would, I was well over achieving and everything, but this was not what I wanted. Before I was frustrated because like 40-50% of my losses were solely due to super keepers, not because I wasn't winning the treble in my first season as relegation fodder wolves. I was fine when I lost (or as fine as you can be when you lose) as long as I could see my team was outplayed or my team performed poorly, heck I know keepers play important roles and their saves often mean the difference in games and keepers do have very good games in real life, this I know. But now instead of 50% of my losses beaning due to super keepers, it was now like 90%, sure I was winning way more overall and I was on paper very successful with these cheating devices, winning leagues, cups an everything. But I no longer lost ANY games due to playing poorly or being outplayed, it was ether winning 5-0 or losing 1-0 to a super keeper, I actuily lost a title to a team who I had 46 more GD then, (+79). Because I was ether spanking teams for fun or if I faced a super keeper, simply not being able to score and thus lose. Even with the best tactics, the best scout (genei scout) telling me that my players were world beaters, they could not score vs crappy keepers who after the game would go back to being their crappy selfs and getting ratings in the 5s. I know keepers, like anything in football have good, bad and average games. But they do not have games this good this regularly. It.does.not.happen. So im left with a team that wins many trophies now, but im still just as if not more miserable because the reason I actually used the cheats has been made worse.

As of now it has just killed my enjoyment with this game,its a massive shame cuz other then this I l this game and everthing about it. No one else has this issue so its not a bug or anything, im just at a complete loss. I cant even finish game now, when im in the middle of a game and seeing their keeper at a rating of 8 and rising, seeing everything I throw at him saved, I just resign to defeat. When losing 1-0 its not "COMON PUMP IT FORWARD WE HAVE TO EQUALISE" its "*sigh* another one of these games, I wonder what his final rating will be, maybe ill see a 10, lol look at my players still actauily trying to score, give it up lads, might as well bring on some youngsters and rest them for the next game"

Thats it I think, kudos if anyone read all that, I know I said id list things I used but i cba rite now, will prolly do it tomorrow and update if ive forgot anything. Baiscialy I used every single mr hough tactic to date, zeros seas tactic, tic tak magick, brobs17 ultimate and a few others which i cant remember. All of which were tried at least 1 full season with many being tried for above 2 full seasons. I used tuggs traing shedcules and FM genie scout. I can post screenies of resuilts with statics and play ratings if anyone cares but you will need to tell me how to do this ;P.

I pray I wont have this problem in fm 12

Superkeepers are primarily a tactical issue. If I remember wwfan's thoughts on the subject correctly, they mostly mean you're playing too narrow, with most of your chances coming from one-on-ones through the middle.

You are saying that you do everything possible to ensure that you win every game yet every time you lose it is down to a freak occurrence?

Not seeing the problem.

Superkeepers are primarily a tactical issue. If I remember wwfan's thoughts on the subject correctly, they mostly mean you're playing too narrow, with most of your chances coming from one-on-ones through the middle.

This.

Learn to analyse your matches properly and alter tactics accordingly and instances of "super-keepers" will drop.

Playing wide and slow makes the super keeper goes away for the most part.

"Super keepers", to the extent that they were a problem, seem much less of a problem this time around. Better in FM11 than FM10 also. My only real problem was that it seemed "fixed" in that it opponent GKs only gave 8+ performances when you were totally dominant, almost always enough to lose you the points. Now a keeper can give a top performance when you win 1-0, 2-0. It did on occasion give you a sense that a draw was pre-ordained.

I think Jack Rudd is right about the narrowness issue, but that raises a different problem, in that players too often make the wrong decision to smash the ball when the keeper makes himself big one-on-one. Good players without a tendency to place shots still would most of the time make the smarter choice to play under the keeper, or try to go round them, or chip them. But players without these general tendencies don't do so very often in these clear situations. This results in a lot of "clear" chances that seem destined to be missed, when in real life at least one of them would go in.

(FM 11, 11.3)Where to begin, got FM 11 and played with it since release day, one thing was always, always crippled me, super keepers. When I first started I of course tried to do everything "legit" i.e no genie scout, no FMRTE etc, all tactics made entirely by myself etc. I did moderately well, but one constant thorn in my side was super keepers, common serious where the 15 CCCs, with 0 or 1 converted, 10 shots on target etc. This was quite a pain but surly I was just doing something wrong, maybe my forwards were lacking quality or my training schedules didn't have enough dedicated to shooting, I adjusted these but with no positive effects.

15 clear cut chances?!? I'm lucky to get 15 in an entire month.

Always nice to see a good rant, I enjoy a nice moan just as much as the next man but I fear that you may have fallen foul of exaggeration & selective memory.

15 clear cut chances?!? I'm lucky to get 15 in an entire month.

Always nice to see a good rant, I enjoy a nice moan just as much as the next man but I fear that you may have fallen foul of exaggeration & selective memory.

Ha-ha! Too true. You're a proper Llama whereas I only masquerade as one but I don't remember ever getting 15 ccc's in a game.

I would put it down to a freak occurrence and let's face it, those happen all to often irl. Nice point too about narrow play. I've never connected the two in my mind before as I tend to play wide as a rule, but I'll bear it in mind.

"Super keepers", to the extent that they were a problem, seem much less of a problem this time around. Better in FM11 than FM10 also. My only real problem was that it seemed "fixed" in that it opponent GKs only gave 8+ performances when you were totally dominant, almost always enough to lose you the points. Now a keeper can give a top performance when you win 1-0, 2-0. It did on occasion give you a sense that a draw was pre-ordained.

That would be because the opposition keeper only has enough saves to make to get to an 8 if you were totally dominant then.

Superkeepers are primarily a tactical issue. If I remember wwfan's thoughts on the subject correctly, they mostly mean you're playing too narrow, with most of your chances coming from one-on-ones through the middle.

oh, if wwfan says so, it must be true

This.

Learn to analyse your matches properly and alter tactics accordingly and instances of "super-keepers" will drop.

lol, the neverending answer to all ME problems "it's your tactics!"

i guess if you repeat something long enough, you start believing it

oh, if wwfan says so, it must be true

What matters isn't who said it; what matters is whether or not it is true in practice.

You've summed up the problem with super tactics perfectly. They are super tactics because they exploit holes in the ME, typically the through ball straight down the middle that neither DC reads quickly enough. However, the DCs and the keeper pretty much immediately close down the space. This type of ball results in the following:

1: The shooter needs to rush 20 odd yards at full speed while being chased

2: The shooter has to shoot first time with no angle

3: The shooter gets quickly pressured by DCs closing in from both sides, meaning he can only shoot straight at the keeper

4: The shooter has to hit it on his wrong foot

5: The shooter has to hit it at a difficult height

The problem is that if you are using a tactic that exploits this chance it is impossible to tell how well your team is playing, as, no matter what, the tactic will always create these chances. Thus, you will always feel cheated when you lose.

If you can develop a system that creates multiple chance types, then your won't have any issue with super-keepers. However, if you focus on through balls to the FC alone, the problem will get worse.

lol, the neverending answer to all ME problems "it's your tactics!"

i guess if you repeat something long enough, you start believing it

Superkeeper and "Itz ur tic tacs stoopid" have been going hand in hand since CM3.

I never had this problem of 'super-keeper' on FM 11 ever. And my players have no problem converting because of my tactics.

...should give OP some hint.

I have always had the problem with Iker as I'm playing barca- I just figured it was a rivalry thing and he always is up for our games

You've summed up the problem with super tactics perfectly. They are super tactics because they exploit holes in the ME, typically the through ball straight down the middle that neither DC reads quickly enough. However, the DCs and the keeper pretty much immediately close down the space. This type of ball results in the following:

1: The shooter needs to rush 20 odd yards at full speed while being chased

2: The shooter has to shoot first time with no angle

3: The shooter gets quickly pressured by DCs closing in from both sides, meaning he can only shoot straight at the keeper

4: The shooter has to hit it on his wrong foot

5: The shooter has to hit it at a difficult height

The problem is that if you are using a tactic that exploits this chance it is impossible to tell how well your team is playing, as, no matter what, the tactic will always create these chances. Thus, you will always feel cheated when you lose.

If you can develop a system that creates multiple chance types, then your won't have any issue with super-keepers. However, if you focus on through balls to the FC alone, the problem will get worse.

Lovely post wwfan, and makes the key point. Just creating lots of CCCs is not a good thing if they aren't good chances.

Superkeepers can normally be reduced to the odd occurence if you play wide, slow and with a relatively moderate attacking mentality.

If that doesn't help you need to make sure that the long shots are minimized and this includes getting rid of players with the Shoots from Distance PPM.

If that doesn't help, it IS as WWfan says: you create too few types of chances. Make sure that you have strikers, wingers, midfielders, crosses from full backs, corners, free-kicks... the whole range of chances. The 4-1-2-3 tactics you mentioned are typically not producing more than 1-2 types of chances, and sometimes that is not enough - just like the OP describes.

Decrease the attacking mentality. Play wider and use natural wingers.

I solved my problem like that.

(It happens coz you are winning everything & AI manager reads you hi speed attacking game plan sometimes. When they decide to have a draw in mind even before the match starts, they will pick up a contain strategy focusing just on the one to one attacks from middle or through channels) Best way to solve this problem is a naturally fast winger with a intelligent AMC.

It is a problem with ME though

In real life, it doesn't matter what type of chance you create, as long as the player is skilled enough to beat the keeper. Often keepers concede weak shots, badly placed shots, shots going wide, etc, just because they make a mistake/not skilled enough.

It's not realistic that no matter how crappy a goalkeeper is and how good a player is, if "you create too few types of chances" you're not going to score.

It is a problem with ME though

In real life, it doesn't matter what type of chance you create, as long as the player is skilled enough to beat the keeper. Often keepers concede weak shots, badly placed shots, shots going wide, etc, just because they make a mistake/not skilled enough.

It's not realistic that no matter how crappy a goalkeeper is and how good a player is, if "you create too few types of chances" you're not going to score.

Is it though? I mean I have seen plenty of times in real life players fail repeatedly at 1v1s because they are too rushed and the defenders and goalkeepers have closed them down. and most likely with the tactic the OP is using he is scoring in most games, but in some games, just like in real life, the opposition keeper will play a blinder and be fantastic.

Super Keepers have beein in Football Manager for a few years already, people have learned how to beat them and will continue to do so.

Its your tactics

Of course the ME has limilations and short comings. Everyone realises that. You can cry all day about how crap the ME is or you can adapt your tactic to minimise/avoid the problem.

Its your tactics

Lovely post wwfan, and makes the key point. Just creating lots of CCCs is not a good thing if they aren't good chances.

How can a "Clear Cut Chance" not be a good chance? Isn't, by definition, a "Clear Cut Chance" a good chance - or clear cut??

Superkeepers can normally be reduced to the odd occurence if you play wide, slow and with a relatively moderate attacking mentality.

If that doesn't help you need to make sure that the long shots are minimized and this includes getting rid of players with the Shoots from Distance PPM.

This may work, but is actually just a workaround for something that is broken.

Decrease the attacking mentality. Play wider and use natural wingers.

I solved my problem like that.

What if I don't want to? What if I want to play fast kick and rush through the middle? Then, I'm going to get the superkeeper aren't I? Again, what is being suggested is working around problems, rather than proving a problem doesn't exist.

Basically, that's a huge amount of options "attacking mentality, narrow and no wingers" that if you don't want to see the superkeeper, you just can't use.

Superkeepers? That is SO 2010.

IYT may be the biggest cliche on the boards but this is the one case where it is absolutely 100% true.

How can a "Clear Cut Chance" not be a good chance? Isn't, by definition, a "Clear Cut Chance" a good chance - or clear cut??

It's a clear cut chance, but not necessarily a good one. Personally I believe it is a misleading stat as it's not used elsewhere on TV or on websites when talking about stats for games.

What if I don't want to? What if I want to play fast kick and rush through the middle? Then, I'm going to get the superkeeper aren't I? Again, what is being suggested is working around problems, rather than proving a problem doesn't exist.

Basically, that's a huge amount of options "attacking mentality, narrow and no wingers" that if you don't want to see the superkeeper, you just can't use.

Well a narrow, no wingers kick and rush tactic is incredibly limited at the higher levels in real life. Why does it surprise you it isn't the best ingame?

Basically, that's a huge amount of options "attacking mentality, narrow and no wingers" that if you don't want to see the superkeeper, you just can't use.

That is simply not true.

I used a 4-3-3 narrow tactic VERY successfully in FM2010 and still use a modified version of it.

The basic argument that is being repeated is 'why are my many clear cut chances not being converted to goals?'

The answer has been given already that it is the limitation of the ME and its failure to recognise certain 'clear cut chances' as really being good chances. Nobody is trying to prove the problem doesnt exist. We all know it exists for certain tactics.

And also possible work arounds have been given.

And I'm sure the new ME in development will try to behave better than the current one.

I really dont see much point in arguing about this any more.

PPM's - Put's the ball into the corner of the net. Useful when playing a more narrow game.

urgh, to the ppl spamming the "its your tatics" plz actauily read my post next time, I have used over 5-6 of the "best tatics eva" in the tacis forum, the same tatics that have hundreds of "amazing, super, reviews from others, yet none work for what I want. The classic "its your tatic" dig is void cuz these ARINT my tatics... For those to lazy ill quote myself from the OP: "Baiscialy I used every single mr hough tactic to date, zeros seas tactic, tic tak magick, brobs17 ultimate and a few others which i cant remember. All of which were tried at least 1 full season with many being tried for above 2 full seasons. I used tuggs traing shedcules and FM genie scout."

And davidho, the problem is I want this game to be like real life, I want to lose games due to variety of reasons, ya know, like team do in real life, not just due to super keepers 90% of the time. I.e great play from opposition, poor play from my team, bad defending from my team, I doimate posseion etc but my strikers miss sitters and they score form break and so on. As its stands im ether spanking teams for fun 5-0 etc (due to the tactics ofc) or loseing 1-0 or w.e beacuse whatever I throw at a the team the keeper saves it. Im winning plenty of trophies etc but I didnt start "cheating" to do this, I did it so I actually lost from more then 1 reason so the game felt more realistic.

sigh, yet another game like this, tbf I did score and get a draw which is much more then I useaily do when super keepers turn up, but never other then that a typical game with a super keeper: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003745259/screenshot/612714390015755139?tab=public

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003745259/screenshot/612714390015772759?tab=public

To the others, you guys actually raise some good points but, well what would you suggest I do to try and fix this? as after using 5 or 6 very poplar tactics im kinda out of ideas. Anyone have any other tactics I can try? as well as the intrustions on how to play/train/needed attributes/pitch size etc?

Sorry for the horrible spelling/grammer but Im historic really bad at that, even with spell checker XD

urgh, to the ppl spamming the "its your tatics" plz actauily read my post next time, I have used over 5-6 of the "best tatics eva" in the tacis forum, the same tatics that have hundreds of "amazing, super, reviews from others, yet none work for what I want. The classic "its your tatic" dig is void cuz these ARINT my tatics... For those to lazy ill quote myself from the OP: "Baiscialy I used every single mr hough tactic to date, zeros seas tactic, tic tak magick, brobs17 ultimate and a few others which i cant remember. All of which were tried at least 1 full season with many being tried for above 2 full seasons. I used tuggs traing shedcules and FM genie scout."

And davidho, the problem is I want this game to be like real life, I want to lose games due to variety of reasons, ya know, like team do in real life, not just due to super keepers 90% of the time. I.e great play from opposition, poor play from my team, bad defending from my team, I doimate posseion etc but my strikers miss sitters and they score form break and so on. As its stands im ether spanking teams for fun 5-0 etc (due to the tactics ofc) or loseing 1-0 or w.e beacuse whatever I throw at a the team the keeper saves it. Im winning plenty of trophies etc but I didnt start "cheating" to do this, I did it so I actually lost from more then 1 reason so the game felt more realistic.

sigh, yet another game like this, tbf I did score and get a draw which is much more then I useaily do when super keepers turn up, but never other then that a typical game with a super keeper: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003745259/screenshot/612714390015755139?tab=public

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198003745259/screenshot/612714390015772759?tab=public

To the others, you guys actually raise some good points but, well what would you suggest I do to try and fix this? as after using 5 or 6 very poplar tactics im kinda out of ideas. Anyone have any other tactics I can try? as well as the intrustions on how to play/train/needed attributes/pitch size etc?

Sorry for the horrible spelling/grammer but Im historic really bad at that, even with spell checker XD

If you want the game to be like real life - don't use plug and play 'super tactics' at all! Think about the game and respond to what the match engine is showing you.

and its also about using the players to their best abilities to find a tactic that suits the players in your team

If you want the game to be like real life - don't use plug and play 'super tactics' at all! Think about the game and respond to what the match engine is showing you.

and what would that be? how do you stop a super keeper in his prime? shouts? like exploit the flanks if your wingers are destroying their fullbacks? shoot on site? bring on new strikers or new midfielders to help create if their playing badly? I dont use "plug and play" I spend ALOT of time reading each of the posts from the tatics creater, about what kind of players I need, how to train, what pitch to use and so on, and give it plenty of time to work, I don't just download random super tactic Y and rage if im not winning every game 10-0 after 1 day. Im not a massive tactics master, but I like to think im pretty decent and observing games and acting accordingly. I use shouts and subs all the time as well as interacting with my players giving them PPMs, i dont see what more I can do.

and what would that be? how do you stop a super keeper in his prime? shouts? like exploit the flanks if your wingers are destroying their fullbacks? shoot on site? bring on new strikers or new midfielders to help create if their playing badly? I dont use "plug and play" I spend ALOT of time reading each of the posts from the tatics creater, about what kind of players I need, how to train, what pitch to use and so on, and give it plenty of time to work, I don't just download random super tactic Y and rage if im not winning every game 10-0 after 1 day. Im not a massive tactics master, but I like to think im pretty decent and observing games and acting accordingly. I use shouts and subs all the time as well as interacting with my players giving them PPMs, i dont see what more I can do.

I gave you one idea above... use shoot in the corners PPM.

urgh, to the ppl spamming the "its your tatics" plz actauily read my post next time, I have used over 5-6 of the "best tatics eva" in the tacis forum, the same tatics that have hundreds of "amazing, super, reviews from others, yet none work for what I want. The classic "its your tatic" dig is void cuz these ARINT my tatics...

As you either didn't read or understand this previously:

They are super tactics because they exploit holes in the ME, typically the through ball straight down the middle that neither DC reads quickly enough. However, the DCs and the keeper pretty much immediately close down the space. This type of ball results in the following:

1: The shooter needs to rush 20 odd yards at full speed while being chased

2: The shooter has to shoot first time with no angle

3: The shooter gets quickly pressured by DCs closing in from both sides, meaning he can only shoot straight at the keeper

4: The shooter has to hit it on his wrong foot

5: The shooter has to hit it at a difficult height

The problem is that if you are using a tactic that exploits this chance it is impossible to tell how well your team is playing, as, no matter what, the tactic will always create these chances. Thus, you will always feel cheated when you lose.

What if I don't want to? What if I want to play fast kick and rush through the middle? Then, I'm going to get the superkeeper aren't I? Again, what is being suggested is working around problems, rather than proving a problem doesn't exist.

To an extent, yes, but it doesn't mean that these tactics won't win. They will just create a few chances that the keeper comfortably saves. As long as you can pick why this is happening, and recognise the chances for what they are (rushed half chances rather than the CCCs the game says they are), then there's no real problem.

Super keepers and abysmal referees...

Seems just like I've been witnessing following Granada CF so far this season!

As you either didn't read or understand this previously:

They are super tactics because they exploit holes in the ME, typically the through ball straight down the middle that neither DC reads quickly enough. However, the DCs and the keeper pretty much immediately close down the space. This type of ball results in the following:

1: The shooter needs to rush 20 odd yards at full speed while being chased

2: The shooter has to shoot first time with no angle

3: The shooter gets quickly pressured by DCs closing in from both sides, meaning he can only shoot straight at the keeper

4: The shooter has to hit it on his wrong foot

5: The shooter has to hit it at a difficult height

The problem is that if you are using a tactic that exploits this chance it is impossible to tell how well your team is playing, as, no matter what, the tactic will always create these chances. Thus, you will always feel cheated when you lose.

To an extent, yes, but it doesn't mean that these tactics won't win. They will just create a few chances that the keeper comfortably saves. As long as you can pick why this is happening, and recognise the chances for what they are (rushed half chances rather than the CCCs the game says they are), then there's no real problem.

The keeper comfortably saves?!

He is called a super keeper for a reason, right? It's because he saves shots he shouldn't save. In real life if a team had so many chances it would convert enough of them to win and only come up against a super keeper once or twice - not almost every game.

I can understand you're trying to help but don't this an engine problem and it should have nothing to do with player's tactics.

The keeper comfortably saves?!

He is called a super keeper for a reason, right? It's because he saves shots he shouldn't save. In real life if a team had so many chances it would convert enough of them to win and only come up against a super keeper once or twice - not almost every game.

I can understand you're trying to help but don't this an engine problem and it should have nothing to do with player's tactics.

I don't see them as chances the keeper should never save. He might pull off one or two great saves, but in general they are pretty simple stops. I've been forwarded a lot of pkms in which the user was complaining about a super keeper, as has PaulC, and, as of yet, I haven't seen a single game in which more than one or two chances were really good ones.

That the game calls them CCCs is an issue and one I've complained at length about. The game is far too liberal in saying a chance is clear cut.

Superkeepers are primarily a tactical issue. If I remember wwfan's thoughts on the subject correctly, they mostly mean you're playing too narrow, with most of your chances coming from one-on-ones through the middle.

Yeah, and we all know, you never score goals IRL by coming alone one on one with the keeper. There is a much better chance of scoring if you shoot from 50 yards

Ok, to be serious. This part of the game is not realistic, it's a workaround SI put in so you won't score way too much when you have "broken" the matchengine and are able to produce 7-10 one on ones each match.

Ok, to be serious. This part of the game is not realistic, it's a workaround SI put in so you won't score way too much when you have "broken" the matchengine and are able to produce 7-10 one on ones each match.

No it isn't. Th problem is that the chances are described as CCCs when they aren't. A great percentage of such chances are not very good as the player is hurried, has no angle, is being closed down, has the ball on the wrong foot, has to stretch to reach the ball, and/or has to hit it at a difficult height. There is no work around.

No it isn't. Th problem is that the chances are described as CCCs when they aren't. A great percentage of such chances are not very good as the player is hurried, has no angle, is being closed down, has the ball on the wrong foot, has to stretch to reach the ball, and/or has to hit it at a difficult height. There is no work around.

So what you're saying is, what we see is not whats really happening. When the (fast) striker gets a throughball, breaks the offside trap and have at least 5-10 yards to the nearest defender when he aplies the finish, he is rushed? I made a tactics in FM11 where I got this to happen all the time, but rarely scored on them.

Both the "it's yo' tactics" and the "super keeper" sides have it partially right. There is a superkeeper effect to the extent that a keeper makes a few saves early on, their confidence and rating will rise and they will generally perform very well throughout the match. On the other end, if a striker misses a few shots early on, their confidence and rating will drop and they will perform progressively worse as the match goes on (especially if they don't have exceptional Determination), making the job of the confident keeper that much easier.

And if, as wwffan points out, you use a high-paced, attacking tactic where your strikers are going to be popping off shots at whatever angle at every opportunity, you greatly increase the chance that a keeper is going to make those early saves and slip into "super keeper mode."

Now, if you're also generally performing very well and winning lots of matches in a row, you're going to be dealing with complacency, meaning your strikers will carelessly blow chances, leading to easy saves and a more confident opposition goalkeeper, so it's not necessarily just a matter of tactics.

So what you're saying is, what we see is not whats really happening. When the (fast) striker gets a throughball, breaks the offside trap and have at least 5-10 yards to the nearest defender when he aplies the finish, he is rushed? I made a tactics in FM11 where I got this to happen all the time, but rarely scored on them.

No. What I'm saying is that subjectively you believe they are better chances than they are. You will have a couple of good chances but most will be average at best.

As I said, I have never yet been forwarded a pkm in which the majority, or even the significant minority, of such chances have been good ones.

Both the "it's yo' tactics" and the "super keeper" sides have it partially right. There is a superkeeper effect to the extent that a keeper makes a few saves early on, their confidence and rating will rise and they will generally perform very well throughout the match. On the other end, if a striker misses a few shots early on, their confidence and rating will drop and they will perform progressively worse as the match goes on (especially if they don't have exceptional Determination), making the job of the confident keeper that much easier.

Also a good point.

Media Interaction > Keeper "Weakest Link" > Drop in keeper moral = happy days.

Coming straight at the keeper at a 90 degree angle to the goal, him waiting for the shot, that is not a good chance in FM. It should be, but it normally isn't. Building a tactic that attempts to create as many such chances as possible will make the tactic very good for the most part - but then you will have the occasional match where this doesn't work. If they play deep and narrowly, they may prevent the chances from happening at all, and then there's the confidence thing The Hand of God mentioned (and I did, iirc).

WWfan has stated it very clearly: the defensive awareness of the central defenders isn't advanced enough to pick up certain through balls/clearances/gk-ping passes, so there will be an abnormal amount of one-on-ones around the penalty-spot and five meters out from it, and the ME "fixes" the problem by making the keepers handle those situations better than would be the case in real life.

Playing narrowly, using those popular 4-1-2-3 tactics you will over-achieve like everybody else does with them. And you will have absolute awful matches for the same reason. If you want more realism where there are more variation in chance creation and conceded goals, don't use those tactics.

You could use mine, I suppose, but it is also an exploitation tactic of sorts - according to WWfan at least. It takes advantage of pace and dribbling being over-powered in the ME, so that 4 attackers up front vs 4 defenders = more than good enough. It doesn't create only one type of chances though. I almost never experience super-keepers.

This is very true that the ME over estimates how clear cut a chance is. When you actually watch those chances, not all ccc's are actually equal. Some shots have absolutely no angle yet the ME says it's clear cut because the defenders are a little further away.

The way I look at it, the Match Engine doesn't truly reflect what literally happens, if a player misses by 5 yards it won't be any different to them missing by 6 or 7 yards. All the Match Engine is is a graphical representation. That said, without it you'd be screwed and you wouldn't know what to do with your squad

What if I don't want to? What if I want to play fast kick and rush through the middle? Then, I'm going to get the superkeeper aren't I? Again, what is being suggested is working around problems, rather than proving a problem doesn't exist.

Basically, that's a huge amount of options "attacking mentality, narrow and no wingers" that if you don't want to see the superkeeper, you just can't use.

Then be ready to play teams which will park bus and play narrow. You can't cross them always.