kipfizh

AI Experiment - The Bandits are back for FM09

2,156 posts in this topic

On to the next page already. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic to see the Bandits are back! And I love being in it from the start, it's fantastic! The Bandits are going to be the EPL Champions this time for sure! Bring on the first update! KUTGW Kip!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very excited that this has kicked off

I'd love to see The starlets stay with the bandits for a few years this time.

Also really looking forward to the antics of the 4 idiots - Idiot GK is going to be a cult hero!

Great stuff as always Kip, bring on the updates :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip, I couldn't find anywhere what the Reputation for the Bandits (and the Sheriffs) is set to? Could you please enlighten me?

Cheers.

As for my predictions;

- The Bandits will completely steamroll through the first season, maybe even unbeaten.

- The Bandits will lose all their star players, bar 2-3, the first season. Some probably already in January,

- The Sheriffs will have the worst disciplinary record in the BSS.

- Both clubs will reach the EPL within 15 years, and I think the Sheriffs will get there first.

Can't wait for the first update!! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see this up and running, i managed to read the whole of the first update while at work! im sure this will be just as exciting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Also is there any chance Kip, Of the game to be up for download at the beginning of this for people to genuinely play through? If you think it'd discredit the experiment fair enough. But i thought i'd ask :D

Probably not, to be honest, but I am backing the initial save up on a different machine this time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Finally I have a quick question, do you know if the players who chose to represent their other nationality's youth teams can still change back before they get their first "real" cap or is it already decided?

In-game, all the players are listed as still being eligible for both nations, whether this will change or not after the play their first youth international, I'll let you know.

I found this official FIFA ruling:

"(a) Up to his 21st birthday, a player may only once request changing the Association for which he is eligible to play international matches. A Player may exercise this right to change Associations only if he has not played at “A” international level for his current Association and if, at the time of his first full or partial appearance in an international match in an official competition of any other category, he already had such nationalities. Changing Associations is not permitted during the preliminary competition of a FIFA competition, continental championship or Olympic Tournaments if a player has already been fielded in a match of one of these competitions."

It was later explained:

The major substantive change was designed to deal with repeated complaints that players had made irrevocable commitments to a particular national team by taking part in international youth tournaments when they were too young to make an intelligent decision on such an important matter and when their tender age rendered them peculiarly susceptible to pressure from others. The new provision seeks to rectify this problem by allowing a national team change in limited circumstances. It contains five limitations preventing country-shopping: the player must not yet have reached his 21st birthday when he makes the request to change his national team, he must already hold the dual or multiple nationality when he makes his first appearance in a competitive international match, he must not have appeared for the A or senior level national team of his current association, he may change his national team only once and he may not change his national team during a preliminary competition in which he has taken part.

---

So, in theory, the players should be able to switch from one nation to another until they hit their 21st birthday, or play a senior match for their country. They all have dual nationality already so that part is not a problem. But they should be able to switch only once.

This is, of course, assuming the rule is followed in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kip, I couldn't find anywhere what the Reputation for the Bandits (and the Sheriffs) is set to? Could you please enlighten me?

Both set to 950/10000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was under the impression that it is Under-21 games as well as senior games that mean the choice of nationality is irreversible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was under the impression that it is Under-21 games as well as senior games that mean the choice of nationality is irreversible.

I guess it all comes down to the definition of an 'A' level international match. I thought that was just seniors, but I could well be wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is so full of WIN :D

Good luck with the experiment kipfizh, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread again as the previous experiment helped us tweak things like the regens and player progress in the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This thread is so full of WIN :D

Good luck with the experiment kipfizh, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread again as the previous experiment helped us tweak things like the regens and player progress in the game.

This is what I love about these forums. Us, the fans, can make a difference to the actual game. KIP MBE:thup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good luck with the experiment kipfizh, I'll be keeping an eye on this thread again as the previous experiment helped us tweak things like the regens and player progress in the game.

Really? Blimey, thanks for that - I had no idea it'd had an impact!

That's just made my day :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip to have his name up in lights...or in the manual credits at the very least.

As for 'A' matches I only think it counts U21 games because of a couple of incidents a few years ago but the laws may very well have changed following these or even as a result of them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see the Bandits in FM09. Followed your old thread and will do the same with this one.

KUTGW kipfizh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Bandit's are back!!!! Another 70 years, here we come :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good to see this up again! Looking forward to reading it, right from the start.

Predictions

I think people are being too optimistic, I reckon it'll be 20 years before The Bandits make it to the top flight, 30 years before The Sheriffs join them.

The Bandits will stroll the first season, getting promoted alongside The Sheriffs.

First £1m transfer will be in season 3.

All Bandits to go into management.

Bandits to win their first Champions League in 2048!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad to see your back and well Kip, and this is looking like it will be another excellent experiment/read.

Alreay my new favourite forum thread on the web :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kip - Make sure you backup the database as well, and if you do move machines, make sure the experiment DB is in the correct place or you will again find that the teams revert to their original names, and any created stadia or places will just not exist.

Getting really excited for this now :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ah well, my work's about to suffer :D

Great to see the new experiment up an running, I can't believe it's been two years since the first one started, you'd think we'd have all grown up and moved on by now. But no, here we are again, eagerly awaiting the first update.

My predictions:

- Two Bandits players to stay for more than one season, the rest will leave.

- The Sherrifs to fail in their attempt to go up in the first season because of the affect that the idiots have on the team.

- The Bandits manager to manage England within 10 years.

- England to win a major trophy within 12 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic to see this back, it inspired my experiment so I look forward to it inspiring others as well.

My predictions

The Bandits to win the Blue Square South

The Bandits to obtain more than 100 points in the Blue Square South during the first season.

The Bandits to win a cup competition within 3 years.

At least half the Bandits superstars to leave after one season at the club.

The Sheriffs to achieve a playoff place in the first season.

The Sheriffs to NOT reach the Premiership within 20 years.

The Bandits to reach the Premiership within 20 years.

England to win the World Cup before 2020 utilising Bandits/former Bandits players.

One of the idiots to end up at Newcastle United.

Ocean View Park to be expanded significantly by the time the Bandits make league football.

The Bandits to be one of the 92 football league clubs before 2012.

In my opinion, the key to the Bandits success will be the Chairman and the Board, the manager will eventually leave, probably within five years, and the players will almost certainly all be gone by 2012. The Chairman, a sugar daddy, will have a significant influence on the success of the Bandits, his choices, funding, ambition, and patience will be the key to Bandits success.

The Sheriffs will suffer from their Chairman and he will hold them back at times when he fires Managers who could have taken them to success. He will make bad business decisions and will probably lead the team to financial ruin.

If the Sheriffs are led to financial ruin then any initial success they may have had will see a consortium buy the club and subject to a decent enough Chairman, they will have the resources to (slowly) advance up the league pyramid.

Oh, and I also think the Bandits will win the Champions League before 2050.

As always, all predictions wrong or your money back. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Really? Blimey, thanks for that - I had no idea it'd had an impact!

That's just made my day :)

The original was an interesting experiment, not just because the thread and your posts were very entertaining and informative, but because of the suggestions and predictions people posted on how they thought things would go. While we do run our own tests and analysis on the long term gameplay for areas like the regens and the finances, there are still things that can be learned from experiments like this one, where someone really digs into the game data over a long period. Especially when there is a lot of passion involved.

Even if there aren't things to tweak straight from the data posted from the experiment, it might spark some tests on our side to check how the game works in certain scenarios etc. which will all add up to more realism and more fun for everyone :)

Edit: I emailed the link to this thread around the FM team so most likely other people will be keeping an eye out as well. Ter at least, if he has the time from eating all the chickens at Nandos :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So, in theory, the players should be able to switch from one nation to another until they hit their 21st birthday, or play a senior match for their country. They all have dual nationality already so that part is not a problem. But they should be able to switch only once.

This is, of course, assuming the rule is followed in the game.

Thanks for doing the research for me, I wasn't expecting this much detail tbh. Can one of the SI members who reads this thread confirm if FM follows the real life rule and if U21 matches count as 'A' level or not please?

It would be interesting to see if the Bandits starting to get call ups for England will influence the decision of those who are playing for their other nationalities at youth level or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see the new version up - this is not so much an FM experiment as an institution ;)

Good to see the idiots with all the 'dirty' PPMs too - did you set their tackling to 20? Tackling of 1 combined with 'dives in to tackles' could produce a few bone crunching moments!

Personally, I predict the Bandits will have a steady rise up the league. The management structure seems very stable and they should take a risk-free approach. I think the Sherrifs may be successful initially but they will then implode. They will most likely follow that cycle as they rise up - promotions may be followed by relegations but they will get their eventually. Maybe they will eventually become like Chelsea or Real Madrid, sacking their managers on a regular basis.

Looking forward to the next update. :)

2000th post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for doing the research for me, I wasn't expecting this much detail tbh. Can one of the SI members who reads this thread confirm if FM follows the real life rule and if U21 matches count as 'A' level or not please?

It would be interesting to see if the Bandits starting to get call ups for England will influence the decision of those who are playing for their other nationalities at youth level or not.

My first ever post here:)

Hi all and KUTGW Kip

I believe this article answers the question - the players are not chosing their national team before they turn 21 unless they play for the senior squad (Bojan has U21 appearances for Spain). Whether that is followed in the FM remains to be seen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My first ever post here:)

Hi all and KUTGW Kip

I believe this article answers the question - the players are not chosing their national team before they turn 21 unless they play for the senior squad (Bojan has U21 appearances for Spain). Whether that is followed in the FM remains to be seen.

I guess. But Spain grabbed him before Serbia did. He now has one cap for Spain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a game similiar to this experiment (but on another forum and involving real people) some players with different nationalities (one had England, Wales and Ghana) played for Ghana U21s but went on to play for Wales.

Hope that answers your question :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rule is, as far as I know and understand by reading it, the player has a choice to be made until his 21st birthday. If he has U21 caps for a country and he hasn't made a choice, he has to stick with that one. But he may change his U21 country A to B in "senior" level. Senior caps are what bound players to nations. For example there are countless of debates for Germany U21-U19 players that are born Turkish but having a German passport. Some tend to pick Turkish U21, some German. But each federation tries to convince the talented ones to pick themselves for senior caps.

And now on to predictions:

o Bandits to storm the league this time, breaking records everywhere like wins, goals and stuff.

o Sheriffs to follow them behind, also getting promoted, due their squad lacking players and due their idiots.

o 2 successive promotions for Bandits, 7-8 years to Championship, 11-14 years to Premier League.

o Sheriffs can be stuck anywhere depending on the transfers they'll make but I predict they are to linguish in League football for 5-8 years and make the step up to Championship in 10-12 years. 15-20 years to Premier League.

o All Bandits players to leave in 1,5 - 2 years. Maybe the GKs will stick longer.

o Idiots to leave before the starlets, achieve quicker but disrupt harmony anywhere they go.

o Hopefully more silverware to come this time around, even a World Club Championship :eek:

o An Ex-bandit to coach or manage Bandits some time in the future. Maybe a duo like the last one.

o Starlets dominating the PotY awards in everywhere where as a completely total stranger will be the legend of Bandits. (Kinch anyone ;))

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

/me pulls up a chair and gets the popcorn ready

:)

It's so great to be able to follow the experiment from the very beginning... I eagerly await that first season report.

My predictions: Most of the starlets (and, probably, idiots) don't even reach the season proper in their original clubs. With that kind of reputation, they're headed for the top two tiers of any of the top european leagues within a few months... they can't have a very high price at that league level.

The Bandits get hurt by losing their awesome players, and only get promoted thanks to the few remaining ones. The Sherriffs fare a bit better, as they already have the rest of the squad in place.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brilliant. Glad this is back - and I'm delighted to the the scope and scale of the experiment has expanded as well. This experiment should be much more rigorous than 07, but hopefully not too overwheming to manage.

My predictions:

- The Sheriffs will win a major trophy before the Bandits (an ambitious owner who won't accept failure means that sooner or later they'll stumble over a very good manager)

- The Bandits will be very, very successful as time passes as the flaws of the 07 management have been ironed out.

- Very few of the Bandits players will play for their second country... although the Half-Welsh Idiot is more likely to if he cant get into the English side (the other country's reputations are too low)

- Each save will take about an hour after five seasons.

Good luck Kip!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fantastic kip, looking forward to it.

First season predictions

Bandits to win every game

Bandits to win a game 19-0

Bandits or sheriffs to win whatever trophy the confrence has

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The original was an interesting experiment, not just because the thread and your posts were very entertaining and informative, but because of the suggestions and predictions people posted on how they thought things would go. While we do run our own tests and analysis on the long term gameplay for areas like the regens and the finances, there are still things that can be learned from experiments like this one, where someone really digs into the game data over a long period. Especially when there is a lot of passion involved.

Even if there aren't things to tweak straight from the data posted from the experiment, it might spark some tests on our side to check how the game works in certain scenarios etc. which will all add up to more realism and more fun for everyone :)

Edit: I emailed the link to this thread around the FM team so most likely other people will be keeping an eye out as well. Ter at least, if he has the time from eating all the chickens at Nandos :D

I think Si or Sega should really consider giving Kip a free FM every year...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Official Chilliconcarnie™ Predictions sponsored by Meglomaniac Industries

Season One:

  • Bandits to Finish top, undefeated with the possible exception to the away game to the Sheriffs
  • The Sheriffs to finish Second, no more then 10 points off the pace, but with a much inferior goal difference
  • No less then three Bandits players to have in excess of 20 goals in all competitions, with at least one of the three exceeding 30.
  • At least one Bandits defender to score double figures
  • At least 10 players from the Bandits to break double figures
  • Bandits to have the best disciplinary record
  • Sheriff Idiot's to have a worse disciplinary record combined then the entire Bandits team.

All of the above predictions will operate under the assumption that few Bandits players will move on before the end of the season.

I also predict that at least half of the Bandits will move on by the beginning of the second season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This is what I love about these forums. Us, the fans, can make a difference to the actual game. KIP MBE:thup:

Member of the Bandits Empire

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't wait for the first update Kip, I loved the 07 thread and I'm sure this one will surpass it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This was good last time but I didn't manage to catch very much of it. Will be following closely this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am really looking forward to this. I'm sure many people were inspired to do experiements by the 07 thread (I know I was). Lets hope this one can be just as successful as the last one. I'm not going to make many prediction, except:

The Bandits to Reach the Prem First

The Bandits to get a number of great youth players, that will help them take the league within 25 years.

Good Luck!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent to hear you are back with the new experiment Kip, sure it will be just as informative as the last one! :)

Particularly like the idea of the Sherriffs and, who I'm sure he will turn into, the infamous eccentric goalkeeper! :D

For what they are worth, my predictions:

* Bandits to get promotion and win this season with relative ease.

* Sherrifs to follow them up via the playoffs.

* All bar one of the Bandits will leave in the summer, with the sole survivor to leave in the following January window.

* Bandits will get through the conference in 1-2 seasons but will then take on average 2-3 seasons per division to reach the Premier League (Will be a lot shorter if the backroom staff can hang about for longer).

* One of the star strikers will have a ridiculous games / goals record for England, as they proceed to win the 2014 and 2018 World Cups.

* The Bandits will win the Premier League at one point, but will never conquer Europe.

Will be following with interest as always. :thup:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unbelievable...

I'm not sure I've ever seen a thread grow so quickly and consistently!

Sorry, this doesn't add anything to what has already been said but WOW!

KUTGW and welcome back Kip!

(sorry, too many exclamation marks I know)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great to see this back kipfizh KUTGW

My predictions:

Bandits win league by a mile

Sheriffs go up in play-offs, but have 2 managerial changes this season

Idiots become pretty unhappy early on, and move on in January

All 4 idiots play international football for their second nations

All Bandits go into management

Bandits win more trophies than Sheriffs

Bandits reach EPL 20-25 seasons time

Sheriffs reach EPL 15-20 seasons time

By 2050, Sheriffs spend twice as much money as Bandits

Both teams to play each other in the Champions League Final

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't wait!! One of my favorite threads from back in the day and I'll be interested to see how much has changed (if anything :p) in 2 years of FM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As befits my life, I'm a day late and a buck short. So to business...

Good to have you back Kip. And great to see Meitheisman along too. I certainly wouldn't dare make any predictions. My experience of my own long-term games and the original Bandits is such that I know it would be foolish. With the new data set anything could happen from all the players being gone in January, to them staying on for a surprisingly long time.

I luckily can answer a couple of questions though. The FM09 regen system is amazing. In my 20 year save so far I've had fifty or so 195+ players, and suitable amounts as you down the ladder. A sensible amount of them can hit that too. They even get generated in many positions. Although there is a prevelance to blinding midfielders.

Secondly a U21 cap doesn't count as declaring for a nation. So theoretically the players could take that second nationality. Unfortunately because of the way U21 callups are worked, unless they get injured and picked for their new nation in the brief time between recovering and the next match, they'll probably be England for life. I've tried lots of things to get around this issue (making the England manager blind to talent etc) but without much success. The only real way that a superstar could boost a nation by playing for them is if that was their only nationality. Naturally that goes against the grain somewhat so they end up being English.

I have to confess to speed reading the rest of the thread, so you might have already answered, but what is the Affiliate situation? Players coming in on loan, and eventually going out on loan, has a surprisingly large effect on player development.

Buckled up tight and along for the whole ride...

VB

edit - Just want to make clear that I personally haven't had 50+, the game world has.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I fully expect the Sheriffs to "Do a Gretna" i can see there chairman bullying his way up to the premiership as failure is not an option then bankrupting the club by trying to compete at the top of the premiership

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As befits my life, I'm a day late and a buck short. So to business...

Good to have you back Kip. And great to see Meitheisman along too.

Love the intro, glad to see you on board for the 09 experiment too.

I luckily can answer a couple of questions though. The FM09 regen system is amazing. In my 20 year save so far I've had fifty or so 195+ players, and suitable amounts as you down the ladder. A sensible amount of them can hit that too. They even get generated in many positions. Although there is a prevelance to blinding midfielders.

This will be interesting to monitor, Kipfizh has already set up a section for it too.

Secondly a U21 cap doesn't count as declaring for a nation. So theoretically the players could take that second nationality. Unfortunately because of the way U21 callups are worked, unless they get injured and picked for their new nation in the brief time between recovering and the next match, they'll probably be England for life. I've tried lots of things to get around this issue (making the England manager blind to talent etc) but without much success. The only real way that a superstar could boost a nation by playing for them is if that was their only nationality. Naturally that goes against the grain somewhat so they end up being English.

Thanks for that, it's good that a few starlets were already called up for other nations then, that way we'll be able to see how one starlet can influence various nations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple predictions:

Although all Bandits will leave within 1.5-2 years, at least 3 will return to play together before they end their playing careers.

Bandits average close to 3GF, .6GA in first season.

Sherrifs end up in 2nd and advance as well. However, while the bandits achieve at least playoff position in their second season, the sherrifs struggle.

Bandits achieve Premiership status after 18 seasons...sherrifs follow more slowly, taking 23 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kip to have his name up in lights...or in the manual credits at the very least.

As for 'A' matches I only think it counts U21 games because of a couple of incidents a few years ago but the laws may very well have changed following these or even as a result of them.

Just to confirm that in FM 2009, players become committed to a nation once they play a senior game for that country or represent that country in a competitive U21 or U20 fixture. Players can play U21/U20 friendlies or any U19 games without losing their ability to play for their other nationalities.

Enjoying the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.