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Denseflux

What is with Arsenal?

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I'm sorry but why is Arsenal's players rated so highly when they've proven so inconsistent? I don't see how they're still slated for 4th in fm18 when they aren't that good nowadays? Is there some kind of Arsenal bias? I don't see how their player attributes are equal to their actual capability.

 

Contrast that with Tottenham who've improved and are clearly a cut above Arsenal lately and somehow between Alderweireld and Rob Holding the young Arsenal defender is better in terms of determination? I'm so confused... You can also look at Marcos Alonso of Chelsea... he's somehow less capable than Rob Holding... a Premier League winner which has far more proof of his ability to flaunt and somehow... Someone please explain this? 

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I would suggest the data forums, but your post isn't really data-forums level yet. 

I'll try to explain.

Predicted finish 4th: This will be down to a number of factors, but Arsenal have a high reputation in the game. Predictions are often done off of a clubs reputation, most likely in conjunction with some other elements. It means as a reputable team the in-game media expects them to finish 4th. 

- - - Bear in mind - - -

This is only the in game media offering up a suggestion of where they think Arsenal might finish. There aren't specific media groups in FM for this kind of thing, so there isn't an array of opinions. So there's no 'edgy' publication that's coming in with a really low-ball prediction and none with a really high ball.

----------------------------------

Alderweireld can be significantly better than Rob Holding and still have a lower determination. Determination is one very small aspect of a players toolkit. For central defenders at the top level, this tends to be what I look for marking, tackling, first touch, technique, anticipation, concentration, composure, positioning, determination, work rate, jumping reach, stamina, strength, acceleration and then use scout reports to assess professionalism, consistency and important matches.

It's personal preference what you prefer to look for in a defender, but I know that check-list yields high quality defenders. 

You have to look at the attributes in conjunction with one another. Alonso also has the ability to play wide, which likely means more of his other, non-traditional defending attributes will be higher. 

I haven't taken the time to look admittedly, but I would expect the complete package of Alderweireld and Alonso are superior to that of Rob Holding. 

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1 hour ago, Denseflux said:

I'm sorry but why is Arsenal's players rated so highly when they've proven so inconsistent? I don't see how they're still slated for 4th in fm18 when they aren't that good nowadays? Is there some kind of Arsenal bias? I don't see how their player attributes are equal to their actual capability.

 

Contrast that with Tottenham who've improved and are clearly a cut above Arsenal lately and somehow between Alderweireld and Rob Holding the young Arsenal defender is better in terms of determination? I'm so confused... You can also look at Marcos Alonso of Chelsea... he's somehow less capable than Rob Holding... a Premier League winner which has far more proof of his ability to flaunt and somehow... Someone please explain this? 

If you look in the editor the Arsenal players are not very highly rated. However for some reason Arsenal always do better in FM than the ratings of their players should indicate. I don't know why. Maybe its Wengers stats or some team stats that make them overperform.

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Miles is a huge Arsenal fan. he's had a season ticket for years.

 

 

 

(he watches Watford when they're playing away)

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50 minutes ago, Carninho said:

Miles is a huge Arsenal fan. he's had a season ticket for years.

 

 

 

(he watches Watford when they're playing away)

Well only one bit of that was true, he did have a season ticket which he hardly ever used, he is not an Arsenal fan. He goes to Watford home and away.

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I am sorry mate, I'm playing with Arsenal and Rob Holding is crap. :D

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As an Arsenal fan I have to agree. Coquelin and El Neny are very much overrated in game. They're solidly average midfielders, but their stats make them more like a "leading PL player". Wilshere too, even though I love him has stats a bit too high. Other than that though I think the ratings are just about right. 

The one player I think is the other way is Kolasinac. He was good going forward for Schalke, but he's a defensive full back in FM, with very weak technical/attacking attributes. IMO he's more of a wing back than anything. It's almost like just because he's a big strong fullback he automatically got put as a DFB. 

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ALL epl teams (especially arsenal) are way overrated in FM.

 

if you look at their attributes, they should all be starting for barca or real madrid.

 

whoever is in-charge of the scouting department for SI and the EPL should tone down a bit all of the attributes by 2-5 points.

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I don't think Premier League teams are that overrated.. we're probably just biased by the lack of European success in the last five years or so. We could be entering a new era of English prominence, and the big money will start to pay off. Although it's early, Man City and Tottenham are dominating in Europe this year including that whipping of Real Madrid.

But Arsenal? Yeah, they're overrated. If they're lucky they'll get Europa League again.

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Just because Arsenal aren't playing so well as the Manchester clubs/Chelsea/Tottenham right now you can't deny that absolute sheer skill and ability of the player's in the squad .. they just need fresh idea's and better motivation  (Wenger should resign and allow this) - that's my non bias view. 

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Theyre definitely overrated.

As others have mentionned a few players are messed up. In previous versions giroud always seemed quicker and more lethal than normal, in this one kolasinac's attacking attributes should be better.

That said....the last few years in real life theyve probably underachieved.

Having not played as them the team report should say squad doesnt work hard enough collectively or individually? That stands out to me about arsenal in real life. And lack of strength too.

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Arsenal have been overrated on the game for a decade but this year without CL and such a poor season last year I thought they would level out but no.

 

Think PL teams on a whole been overrated last couple years in game, this year IRL they have improved but might take a couple more seasons to level out to FMs high standards.

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16 hours ago, TCSawyer said:

Just because Arsenal aren't playing so well as the Manchester clubs/Chelsea/Tottenham right now you can't deny that absolute sheer skill and ability of the player's in the squad .. they just need fresh idea's and better motivation  (Wenger should resign and allow this) - that's my non bias view. 

I think Arsenals problems are due to lack of real influential leaders (IRL). You don't have a Tony Adams, Patrick Vieira or so yelling your head off when you don't work hard or don't perform. And doesn't help that Wenger is a goodie little two shoes saying its ok to not perform and not to worry about it to the players.

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18 hours ago, Showerman said:

Arsenal have been overrated on the game for a decade but this year without CL and such a poor season last year I thought they would level out but no.

 

Think PL teams on a whole been overrated last couple years in game, this year IRL they have improved but might take a couple more seasons to level out to FMs high standards.

Most Arsenal players have been tuned down.

Spoiler

Øzil has gone down from 174 to 162. Ramsey has gone down from about 158 to 149. Think pretty much every Arsenal player has been tuned down 5-12 ability points from FM17. Its not the players abilities that make Arsenal overperform in FM, its something else.
Arsenal have 2 player over 160 in ability and that's Sanches who's leaving and Øzil who's got 162.

 

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Reputation in this game is something that needs a huge tweek Imo.

I don't have fm18, but in fm17 for example, Ashdod s.c. (i live there) reputation is the same reputation as Bournemouth, I couldn't stop laughing when I saw that.

A premier league side is on the same reputation as a very low league club, and also, ashdod in the recent years ends up at the bottom of the table, avoiding relegation.

And tbis is one example of many there, i gave an example because of the place i live.

Israeli clubs, should never be at the same reputation as premier league side, unless it's maccabi tel aviv, hapoel. B.S because in the recent years they qualify the group stages of the european leagues (hapoel b.s. even managed to qualofy the stages from a strong group, but lost to beziktas on the playoffs).

Still you can find teams in the israeli side which have half start rating lower than much more reputable teams irl.

The reputation system in the game is what makes it easier to bring high rated players which would make the game unrealistic (because those players irl, wouldn't even consider to come, not an option, unless he is a free agent and his age indicates he doesnt have much playing time left).

Edited by MHovel

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Being a Spurs fan it really pains me to say this.  But after years of being over rated, I now think Arsenal are under rated.  They are still a very good team who on their day are more than capable of beating anyone.  Last season they only finished 3pts behind Man City.

I agree that a couple of their players are over rated (in real life and in the game, but every team will have that in both real life and in the game because it's very subjective and opinion driven) but make no mistake they are in the battle for a top four position this year in real life.  I think the Spurs best XI is currently better balanced than Arsenal's but IMHO the battle for 2nd to 6th could be in any order based on current form of all the teams.  City look on a different level but we'll see what happens when they play Utd and Spurs.  Couple of defeats there and the gap closes and all of a sudden 1st to 6th looks like it could be any order.

 

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8 hours ago, Butters76 said:

I think Arsenals problems are due to lack of real influential leaders (IRL). You don't have a Tony Adams, Patrick Vieira or so yelling your head off when you don't work hard or don't perform. And doesn't help that Wenger is a goodie little two shoes saying its ok to not perform and not to worry about it to the players.

Could not agree more mate. Vieira.. oh man the memories of this legend. 

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They have just won the Champions League at the end of the second season in my current game...

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1 hour ago, Pompey1978 said:

They have just won the Champions League at the end of the second season in my current game...

So is it Wenger that is overrated in the game then? If the players have been tuned down what else could it be?

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They don't seem to be that overrated in my save, so far 1st season they finished 2nd and won the fa cup, then 5th in the 2nd season and so far 15 games into the 3rd they are in the bottom half, think about 12th.

My Wolves team has played them 3 times and I've won 1, drawn 1 and lost 1, and I'm most confident against them than I am the rest of the big 6 teams.

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See, I've seen them now win another undefeated Season, FA, Champs league and Capital One... with Rafa Benitez... wtf

 

It was enough for me to leave the England Job and take over Man City when they asked me.

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13 hours ago, Sticx said:

So is it Wenger that is overrated in the game then? If the players have been tuned down what else could it be?

If I remember I'll have a look tonight to see what kind of run they had to the final, and indeed who they played in the final. I'm managing in Vanarama South so only really noticed from a news article proclaiming Wenger to be one of the best of all time yadda yadda.


They only finished fourth or fifth in the league I think, so I'm inclined to think they had a lucky run in the CL.

Edited by Pompey1978

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