Gooders86 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 maybe he was under the assumption that everyone in the team would be wearing them for the match today, before his press conference yesterday. if rio changed his mind since, that probably pissed of fergie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Doesn't matter at all what he's being punished for. If it's for not wearing the shirt then SAF can sod right off, you can't force moral choices onto players and this is quite true in this case If it's for somehow humiliating SAF in some imaginary way then well.. the same. I was actually quite embarrassed reading SAF having a dig at Roberts and those who wouldn't wear the shirts. It's ridiculous Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thing is the rumours were already about before the presser that Rio wouldn't be wearing it. Fergie's fumbled this one I reckon and doesn't want to lose face over it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Would actually like some context on how he said this. If he did it with a wink and a grin then no worries, if he's actually serious however... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Quote from the beeb: "At the press conference yesterday I spoke to the press about it. It is embarrassing for me. He will be dealt with, no doubt about that." Doesn't sound too jovial to me. Can't see him joking considering the seriousness of the subject at large either; would just duck it with a throwaway 'it's the players' decision' line or similar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 That sounds very petty tbh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So you can punish players for not partaking in a voluntary act? Nonsense I'm seeing a lot of people going on asking what Kick It Out has done to players so they have do this. I don't think it's a case of them doing something wrong. I think it's a case of them not making enough progress, despite honest efforts to do so, which is leading to players wanting to make a statement. Whether this is the right way to go about it or not is not something I'm going to judge but punishing players for not wearing the t-shirt is nonsensical at best. They are not doing it to hurt KIO, they are doing it to draw even more attention to the cause of racism and making it abundantly clear that there has been nowhere near enough progress made. Whatever KIO have done it's not been worth more to the FA than they've shown with the Suarez/Terry bans. If that is the sum of the best KIO can do and Rio/Roberts/Whoever feel like that isn't enough then they have every right to do what they've done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Trouble is it's understandable from both sides although at the end of the day he should have worn the top. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Trouble is it's understandable from both sides although at the end of the day he should have worn the top. Why ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Why ? It's the same with the Saurez handshake situation. IF SAF is under the impression that Rio is going to wear it (as his comments said) then a player needs to not throw his manager under the bus by not wearing it. I'm not saying he should have worn the top for KIO if he doesn't think KIO has done enough but it doesn't look good if your manager says one thing while you do another. If SAF was okay with it or came out after today's game and said "Rio came to me and really put a strong case as to why he felt like he couldn't wear the top. I listened and decided that I would support him." then it's all fine and dandy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pago Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I imagine SAF 'dealing with it' will just involve him telling Rio to let him know before the press conference next time. He's hardly going to fine or drop him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 It's the same with the Saurez handshake situation. IF SAF is under the impression that Rio is going to wear it (as his comments said) then a player needs to not throw his manager under the bus by not wearing it.I'm not saying he should have worn the top for KIO if he doesn't think KIO has done enough but it doesn't look good if your manager says one thing while you do another. If SAF was okay with it or came out after today's game and said "Rio came to me and really put a strong case as to why he felt like he couldn't wear the top. I listened and decided that I would support him." then it's all fine and dandy. So because SAF said Rio would wear it, Rio should wear it? Do you know whether SAF had asked Rio before he said that? Because if he hadn't, he's got no right to feel embarrassed and claiming that he'll deal with Rio. The only embarrassment should be that he made an assumption that was completely wrong. He's embarrassed because he had a massive needless go at Roberts for starting this and then Rio went and joined in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ72 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 SAF seems to open his mouth much too readily these days making very dogmatic statements on things that often are little to do with him - whatever the situation is, his comments about Rio recently have been embarrassing - what business is it of SAF's whether Rio plays for England or wears a particular shirt? Better communication between manager and senior pro would stop him from looking daft and that should surely be up to SAF to initiate before he states his opinion. I'd prefer him to be sorting our defence out myself. When are we going to stop going behind in games? Our strikers can't save us every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
7Bestie7 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 So because SAF said Rio would wear it, Rio should wear it? Do you know whether SAF had asked Rio before he said that? Because if he hadn't, he's got no right to feel embarrassed and claiming that he'll deal with Rio. The only embarrassment should be that he made an assumption that was completely wrong. He's embarrassed because he had a massive needless go at Roberts for starting this and then Rio went and joined in. There's two situations: 1 - SAF opened his mouth without talking to Rio. This could easily be covered up by an excuse post-match about Rio giving a good enough reason not to wear it. 2 - SAF opened his mouth after talking to Rio and Rio changed his mind. IF this is the case then my point stands. That is all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_ Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 It will be option 1. Ferguson said it expecting all players to do what he says. Rio didn't want to wear it and that's his choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
el sid Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Maybe Rio forgot? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehanson Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Don't know if it is Rio's choice though if the club have it as sort of a 'dress' code (don't know what other words to use there). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
headshotbg Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Pogba scored for Juve btw ( a couple of minutes after he came on, only played 14 mins) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deltaroad Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Why did Fergie have a go at Roberts anyway? What business is it to Fergie if others don't support KIO? To be honest I don't think I would wear it myself. Such nonsene organisation trying to look they like are doing something positive when they are not and to be honest they won't change a thing. And this whole KIO thing is just another gimmick the FA pulls to make them look like they are making some kind of progress. Telling people not to be racist is nonsense. If you really hate someone based on their colour/race then having a campaign to convince people otherwise is a waste of time. We're in 2012 and society is still struggling to see people as people speaks volume already. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Even if you think KIO haven't done enough, by not wearing the shirt you undermine all their efforts and remove credibility of the organisation thus making it harder for them to make any kind of impact in the future. This was the point though, wasn't it? That KIO have no credibility due to their inability to make any kind of impact, and that something different is required? Telling people not to be racist is nonsense. If you really hate someone based on their colour/race then having a campaign to convince people otherwise is a waste of time. Not sure this is so valid given the strong 'he's guilty but we're sure he's probably not an actual racist' rhetoric that accompanied the Suarez and Terry cases. It's not about telling people not to be racist; it's about demonstrating how unacceptable racism is. FWIW I don't think anyone has the right to tell the brother of a victim of racist abuse how he should or shouldn't be involved in anti-racism campaigns that he has personal feelings towards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Definitely no smile there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Why did Fergie have a go at Roberts anyway? What business is it to Fergie if others don't support KIO? What irked me is not just that he had a go at him but resorted to cheap shots while doing so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icondacarver Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 I gained a huge amount of respect for Rio for sticking to his guns today. SAF should not have waded into the Roberts debate and then try and semi-bully Rio into compliance. Rio has something he believes in and being "made" to change his stance and just "move on" is the exact behaviour that he is accusing KIO of. Great result today and i liked what i saw, we really need to sort our defence or pack our midfield in the future. Evra is easily going through his worst spell since he joined our club but i am hopeful he will recover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Evra is easily going through his worst spell since he joined our club but i am hopeful he will recover. True enough but he showed a piece of sublime skill in their area in the second half (I think it was) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 After the first 25 minutes (where nobody really covered themselves in glory) I thought Evra showed more signs that he's hopefully coming out of this rut now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Thought second goal they scored was more lucky then defencive lapse, as it bounced back into his path. I can understand where SAF is coming from though, he said all his players would wear that shirt, then one doesn't, it does make the manager look stupid for saying it, did Rio bring it up before that press Conferance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Managed to get to the game today, sat rather close to the away end. I thought I knew lots of words to abuse homosexuals and other minority groups but the Stoke fans were rather keen on providing a lesson otherwise. Picked an excellent game to finally turn up though, even if I did think we were going to throw it away at 3-2 (who actually draws 3-3 with Stoke anyway?). Evra's ball control is sublime in the flesh, was drifting past people at will. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Super Nicky Butt is back as a coach :') Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I gained a huge amount of respect for Rio for sticking to his guns today.SAF should not have waded into the Roberts debate and then try and semi-bully Rio into compliance. Rio has something he believes in and being "made" to change his stance and just "move on" is the exact behaviour that he is accusing KIO of. Great result today and i liked what i saw, we really need to sort our defence or pack our midfield in the future. Evra is easily going through his worst spell since he joined our club but i am hopeful he will recover. Agree with that. He clearly feels strongly about the issue, and FA hasn't exactly covered themselves in glory. Suarez gets a relatively strong penalty, yet Terry is let off much easier, for quite similar offenses. SAF wants to put this whole thing behind us and move on, which is understandable from his point of view (distractions etc), but I gained respect for what Rio did. Didn't see the game yesterday as I was out drinking, but a good result, and glad Rooney scored a couple as well. It's good to have opened his account. This has probably been covered to death earlier in the thread, but as much as I like de Gea, you just have to ask why he doesn't go for that ball on their first goal. I just hope he manages to sort out this part of his game eventually, because he is bloody brilliant at everything else. Good to see Butt back as well. If they all stay with the club we could have a pretty damn fine collection of coaches some years down the line: Solskjær (manager ), Scholes, Giggs, Butt, Rio (?), and maybe eventually Neville too (he's doing his badges). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovejoy! Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 nicky baldy butt :*) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Suarez gets a relatively strong penalty, yet Terry is let off much easier, for quite similar offenses. The panel that handed out the verdict explained this quite clearly. Suarez repeatedly used his abusive phrase, Terry only once. Hence Suarez got a heavier ban. Which means racism is simply a 4 match ban, which is laughable imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yeah, I think it works that foul and abusive language is a two match ban (Rooney swearing for example), aggravating factor (reference to race or colour, or whatever the wording is) is a further two, then the extremity of the Suarez case (repetition) doubled it. Ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I still maintain that they should mic up the refs and ban players for any swearing (at other players/refs at least). Clean up the game and do it properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I still maintain that they should mic up the refs and ban players for any swearing (at other players/refs at least). Clean up the game and do it properly. Completely agree with this, couldn't happen soon enough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheps. Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 At risk of opening up an entirely different topic here, but to follow on from the above two posts, does anyone else think that rugby has it sorted when it comes to referees/officiating? They're mic'd up so the crowd and television audiences can hear them talking to the players, and they're connected to a video referee who can help them make big decisions. You never see the crowding of the ref as you do in football either, what the referee says goes and there's no argument about it. I think there's a lesson to be learnt there for football. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I still maintain that they should mic up the refs and ban players for any swearing (at other players/refs at least). Clean up the game and do it properly. Did you ever see that documentary/TV show where they mic'ed up David Elleray (I think) for a game between Arsenal and someone? Was quite amusing, a hell of a lot of swearing, I'd assume the mics wouldn't go to the TV viewer for starters. Also included Tony Adams calling him a cheat Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aggressive minor Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 The Arsenal players weren't aware of the mic iirc. If told beforehand it would cut the swearing down significantly I'm sure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That's true. I f and blind all the time, I think 'f'ing hell, ref' or 'FFS' is not too bad, it's when it's aggressively aimed at someone. If we're cleaning up though swearing can go somewhere closer to the back of the list Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham_aka_stam Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I swear a lot when I'm watching football. But if my family were in the room and could hear me then I wouldn't swear half as much. That's basically what you're doing if you mic the ref/pitch up, you're making sure everything the players say can be heard at a later date. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 That's a hell of a job listening to that back, eh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I swear a lot when I'm watching football. But if my family were in the room and could hear me then I wouldn't swear half as much.That's basically what you're doing if you mic the ref/pitch up, you're making sure everything the players say can be heard at a later date. That and you can make those awesome videos like they do with American sports where they show the sounds of the game Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razzler Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 and Yank coaches saying things like 'get out of here, buddy' whilst throwing their clipboards down on the floor and chucking their cap away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 And people wonder why Fergie bans journalists... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangaea Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Cutting down on swearing is pretty far down the list of 'must' fixes tbh. Glad to see SAF backtracked on Rio. Would be a little embarrassing if he slapped a fine on him, or worse, punished him by not playing for a while. Had hoped Smalling would be back by now, but apparently still 2-3 weeks off. Will probably play against Braga now SAF isn't exactly the most reliable when it comes to these things. Anyway, since he said he'd rest Evra and Rio for Braga, I hope we see Wottoon back there instead of Carrick again. Carrick could need a break as well ahead of the crucial matches coming up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Cutting down on swearing is pretty far down the list of 'must' fixes tbh. Being far down on the must fix list (not even sure I agree with that but whatever) doesn't mean it shouldn't be done. Mic up the ref team, set up a 3 man panel or whatever to deal with punishment, be done with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott MUFC Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 we also have to remember the farce with the penalty for missing a drugs test. i would rather they clamped down on cheating rather then swearing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Had hoped Smalling would be back by now, but apparently still 2-3 weeks off. Will probably play against Braga now SAF isn't exactly the most reliable when it comes to these things. Anyway, since he said he'd rest Evra and Rio for Braga, I hope we see Wottoon back there instead of Carrick again. Carrick could need a break as well ahead of the crucial matches coming up. Keane >>>>> Wootton. Neither Carrick's day job or a filling in role at centre half are overly stretching, and with Fletcher looking back in the groove it's not as dire a situation as in the past. Would be content enough with Keane in there though. From the presser sounds as though Kagawa is certain to start and Fergie was talking up our wide options, so presumably we'll be 4-2-3-1. Will be interesting to see who gets the nod up front. Also saw that Robbie Brady was added to the CL squad today, maybe a run out at LB for him if Fergie hasn't seen sense and abandoned that barmy idea. Still seems a bit reluctant to say he will give King a chance, bringing up all the other players(including Bebe) in his position when asked. Disappointing. Yeah, saw him mention Bebe the other day Wonder if he's unhappy with King ('s agent) saying he'll be off in January if he's not happy with his playing time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icelander83 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Surely Buttner > Brady when it comes to lb spots? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddidiodion Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Keane has more potential than Wootton but Wootton is a stronger presence aerially and a bit more experienced (well older), especially at centerback. Will also be Buttner at lefback over Brady injuries permitting you'd expect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSB Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yeah, far prefer Buttner to Brady. Can't remember if I'd seen somewhere that he had a knock though, and was more just commenting that Brady had been added to the squad. Seems weird that he wouldn't be included at the start of the season then gets added at matchday 3. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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