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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

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On 8/6/2016 at 08:42, roggiotis said:

is the ppm ''knocks ball past opponent '' good for a central defender ?

Given how reluctant they are to carry the ball forward when they're not even under pressure, I don't think a Central Defender would ever actually use it.

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On 8/12/2016 at 09:47, FeEmDeusEGol said:

I'm havign some difficulties emulating Bielsa style because those two WM on Left and Right seem to be much more closer to the Two other guys on the wings and sometimes they are really close and I wanted to know if it would be better to have them as WB(S)?

 

 

 

SMP TT.png

SMP TI.png

Aside from some differences in defensive behaviour, AMLR and MLR are basically coded as the same position and aren't really intended to be used together on the same flank.

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How do i use a player like Di natale ? 
( Slow, Weak but smart and technical. I'm currently working with a 4-4-2 diamond, attacking football. It works out great with Duvan Zapata and Cyril Thereau as strikers. No matter what role i test di natale he just doesnt fit the system. 

What system fits Di natale? or is he just too ****?

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14 hours ago, Linusovic said:

How do i use a player like Di natale ? 
( Slow, Weak but smart and technical. I'm currently working with a 4-4-2 diamond, attacking football. It works out great with Duvan Zapata and Cyril Thereau as strikers. No matter what role i test di natale he just doesnt fit the system. 

What system fits Di natale? or is he just too ****?

You say he's technical but off the top of my head he's more of a goal scorer than creator?  If so I don't think he fits a quick attacking style, his lack of pace means he can't attack space and if he gets the ball early he won't really create something for someone else. Being a more risky mentality he will be less likely to just play a simple pass backwards.  I'd say he would suit a slower more methodical style where defenders don't have chance to recover from a mistake before he shoots.

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How does 'Pass Into Space' actually work?  At what point does that TI get used?  For example, is it responsible for my defenders kicking the ball long (but not actually into space, usually just to the head of my forward), or does it only get activated when there's space behind the opposition defence?  Will removing it reduce short through balls around the box?

Basically, what's the equivalent player TI to Pass Into Space?

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The TI is Pass into Space. The PI is Risky Passes, which is the same thing. It just encourages passes to a teammate into space instead of to feet. So a tightly marked player can be better picked out with a pass into space. It has nothing to do with passing length.

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If you want to play a narrow formation like this:

2DC

DR

DL

3SC

 

And variations of (1 DMC, 1 MC, 1 AMC) or 3MC or (2DMC 1 MC) or (2DMC 1AMC) you get the picture....

 

Do you want a short or direct passing style? 

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2 hours ago, Methos said:

Do you want a short or direct passing style? 

The question is, do you want a short or direct passing style?  Anything can work, it's up to you how you want to play.  A direct style can work by getting the ball up to the 3 strikers quickly, and so try to catch the opposition unbalanced - basically, get the ball up to the front men and let them get on with it.  A short passing style can work by playing through the opposition with players in close support of each other - so long as you have a decent link between midfield and attack.

There's no right or wrong here :).

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herne79, isn't there something that teams in real life, or players in FM prefer who play narrow formations? Is there even a 1% slight margin in favor of short or direct?

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I'm going to ask here, because I don't think it needs an entire topic... Any help would be appreciated on this one;

 

Reading WWFAN's 12 steps:

Quote

Make sure you have at least one no-nonsense midfielder role to break up play and provide a solid base for possession.

I might be over-thinking it, but this means someone who closes down and makes tackles? Not necessarily someone who defends by way of positioning? So a CM/D (or ball winner, whatever) rather than say, a DLP who is a more positional type of midfield defender? 

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Probably been asked a 1000 times and I have probably read it a 1000 but does a more structured team shape mean a player will more closely follow his PI?

 

Thanks

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Long time tinkerer with tactics, but I've found a rather simple question I've been unable to decisively answer -- does playing narrower/wider affect defensive positioning, offensive positioning, or both? It will obviously have an impact on the transition phases, but what's the primary effect?

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33 minutes ago, kristalshards said:

Drop Deeper in a DM formation creates gaps between defence and DM or between DM and MC?

Dropping deeper should mean "moving towards your own goal" so I'd expect the DM would sit closer to the defense, widening the gap between DM and any CM you have.

It might be easy to verify if you try one game with and without and see the average position of your DM compared to the midfield and defense and see how it shifts.

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Playing full version, FM16.

I've designated individual training instructions to my Ass Man / Coach / whoever I designated it to. So for example I'm managing Ajax, designated person tells... e.g.  Daley Sinkgraven what position to train for, any particular attribute focus etc.

However, if I want to take control of a specific player's training myself, how do I do that? Other than do all of them? I just can't find an option to do so and I fear there isn't one.

2nd unconnected question for the mods - I uploaded a pic of former Sunderland player Gary Rowell as my pic / avatar. Alas I'm not Gary Rowell. Is it ok to use this? If not either let me know or just remove it - no problem :)

Cheers and thanks in advance.

LR

Edited by Lord Rowell

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16 minutes ago, Lord Rowell said:

Playing full version, FM16.

I've designated individual training instructions to my Ass Man / Coach / whoever I designated it to. So for example I'm managing Ajax, designated person tells... e.g.  Daley Sinkgraven what position to train for, any particular attribute focus etc.

However, if I want to take control of a specific player's training myself, how do I do that? Other than do all of them? I just can't find an option to do so and I fear there isn't one.

2nd unconnected question for the mods - I uploaded a pic of former Sunderland player Gary Rowell as my pic / avatar. Alas I'm not Gary Rowell. Is it ok to use this? If not either let me know or just remove it - no problem :)

Cheers and thanks in advance.

LR

Alas, you are correct on question 1. If you want to do one, you have to do all. It would be a nice feature to have someday where you can select individuals to train, and leave the rest to the assman.

On your avatar, I don't think anyone cares. Loads of people have players and managers as their avatar and you aren't making money off of it so I would not lose any sleep over it :)

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13 minutes ago, Dr. Hook said:

Alas, you are correct on question 1. If you want to do one, you have to do all. It would be a nice feature to have someday where you can select individuals to train, and leave the rest to the assman.

On your avatar, I don't think anyone cares. Loads of people have players and managers as their avatar and you aren't making money off of it so I would not lose any sleep over it :)

Cheers for that. I agree it is a pain - actually I think I'll be productive and say something in features / suggestions thread :)

Edit I've done this now.



Thanks re. 2nd question. I only lose sleep with insomnia and worrying about teenagers A-Level results (I'm a teacher) on Weds night tho :)

Edited by Lord Rowell

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Can somebody how exactly "Roam from Position" (both TI and PI) works in game? Does it affect the defensive organisation aswell?

 

Also "Get Further Forward" PI, does it affect only forward runs or the passing style/risk? Is it an off the ball movement?

Edited by kristalshards

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15 hours ago, kristalshards said:

Can somebody how exactly "Roam from Position" (both TI and PI) works in game? Does it affect the defensive organisation aswell?

 

Also "Get Further Forward" PI, does it affect only forward runs or the passing style/risk? Is it an off the ball movement?

Roam is for when you have the ball- it does affect defensive organization indirectly as you can imagine, though.

Get Further Forward is an off the ball movement, yes.

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Can anybody give me any tips on how to get your team tactical familiarity to fluid quicker? It always seems to take at least up until Christmas in all of my games which is a bit of a pain. I understand if you make a lot of new signings etc., it slows the process but this happens at the beginning of every save. I usually leave it to my assistant but on my recent save in I have tried (without success) to manage it myself by leaving the match traing filter all the way to the left for 'more match training' and match prep on 'match tactics', it's 4th October and my tactic familiarity is in the early phase of 'competent', I'm using an attacking 4-2-3-1. It doesn't seem to matter what formation I use in regard to how complicated it is in relation to each team it's always the same problem. 

 

I'm also aware that it does take time for teams to gel and become familiar with what a manager wants from them tactically, but not always. It changes and differs for different teams at different times depending on the personnel and how the formation/tactics naturally fits, I don't find that on FM. Am I doing something wrong?

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I started an Athletico Madrid save and found I was almost fluid immediately with a 4-2-3-1. I guess it's cos the game calculates the best natural formation for each team. A way to boost it is to play lots of pre-season friendlies - literally 2 a week. 

As an aside I think the effects of tactical fluidity should be far greater. In real life it's often the difference between 2 even teams. The flip side is tactical fluidity should be far harder to achieve and linked more specifically to training. 

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50 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

Can anybody give me any tips on how to get your team tactical familiarity to fluid quicker? It always seems to take at least up until Christmas in all of my games which is a bit of a pain. I understand if you make a lot of new signings etc., it slows the process but this happens at the beginning of every save. I usually leave it to my assistant but on my recent save in I have tried (without success) to manage it myself by leaving the match traing filter all the way to the left for 'more match training' and match prep on 'match tactics', it's 4th October and my tactic familiarity is in the early phase of 'competent', I'm using an attacking 4-2-3-1. It doesn't seem to matter what formation I use in regard to how complicated it is in relation to each team it's always the same problem. 

 

I'm also aware that it does take time for teams to gel and become familiar with what a manager wants from them tactically, but not always. It changes and differs for different teams at different times depending on the personnel and how the formation/tactics naturally fits, I don't find that on FM. Am I doing something wrong?

Ideally you will get tactic familiarity sorted during pre-season.

Schedule a friendly match every 3 or 4 days, set the match training all the way to the right for "more match preparation" and set match prep to match tactics.

That should get a single (or possibly two) tactics fully familiar before the season starts.  If you keep changing your tactic, add new players to your squad, or have more than one tactic set, it will take longer.  Lower leagues and poor facilities may also have an impact.

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Herne, that is exactly what I do, I sort the pre-season friendlies and the 'more match preparation' and it still takes an eternity to become familiar. I don;t know how to show screenshots or give more innformation but I'm amazed it takes so long considering how I approach it. Maybe it is  because I have three different tactic sets, I don't know? Still, I find it personally annoying. 

Edited by dolph11

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3 hours ago, dolph11 said:

Herne, that is exactly what I do, I sort the pre-season friendlies and the 'more match preparation' and it still takes an eternity to become familiar. I don;t know how to show screenshots or give more innformation but I'm amazed it takes so long considering how I approach it. Maybe it is  because I have three different tactic sets, I don't know? Still, I find it personally annoying. 

3 tactics will obviously take (probably 3 times) longer as the players need to learn 3 different systems. Start with 1 or 2 and add as the initial setups become more familiar.

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I've never truly grasped the meaning of certain attributes (yes I've looked at the manual and various guides), so I thought I'd see if I can clear up some of my specific misunderstandings here.

The first one I'd like to understand better is marking attribute and how it relates to positioning.  i.e. What match situations would I need defenders with high positioning vs high marking vs both?

Is marking attribute mean man -marking or does it include zonal marking?

Is positioning more relate to cutting off space and passing options?  Or does positioning also apply to dealing with runners?

Edited by jonboym

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What's the difference between Teamwork and Work Rate when it comes to the more advanced players? What do high attribute of TW/WR achieve?

Edited by kristalshards

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The FM manual, as much as it can be criticised, gives decent descriptions of attributes. Have you two looked there for clarification on what each attribute means?

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I need some advice on my lower league game, I am currently managing Blyth in the Vanarama North league so most of my players are pretty rubbish.

I have major concerns.

1. I am susceptible to crosses. I changed my DR/DL to 'Limited Full Back' which seems to have reduced the amount of incoming crosses, however they still come in from fairly deep. So really there are 2 issues here, try as I might, I cant find a way to stop wingers/full backs whipping the ball in from 40 yards, and secondly, I am losing aerial challenges in the box frequently.

2. I don't seem to create a lot of chances and I don't know what to do with so many rubbish players.

 

So some extra info for you - I've tried a number of formations, I personally like 4-2-3-1 but it just doesn't seem to work so I've moved to a 4-1-2-2-1 (i.e a defensive mid instead of an AMC)
I also have been trying 4-4-1-1 which seems to be ok defensively but my creativity is just not there.

I was trying to replicate the AIs success in crosses and headers but I don't think I have the right strikers at the moment so hence the formations above, I have a good centre mid who seems to get into the box
As soon as I try a 2 striker formation then I find I get overrun in midfield but I think that does help with my lack of chances.

I'm reluctant to try a 4-4-2 diamond, which on the positive side would provide number in midfield plus 2 strikers - I would potentially leave myself exposed out wide, especially with Limited full backs.

Any suggestions as I am struggling a bit. Although I am 2nd in the league at Xmas so maybe I have high expectations.

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6 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

The FM manual, as much as it can be criticised, gives decent descriptions of attributes. Have you two looked there for clarification on what each attribute means?

Thanks but as I said in my question I've looked the manual but it gives no clear idea when marking applies vs positioning vs both

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12 minutes ago, jonboym said:

Thanks but as I said in my question I've looked the manual but it gives no clear idea when marking applies vs positioning vs both

For me, Positioning and Marking go hand in glove (for a central defender at least).

Positioning is all about how well a player moves when defending in order to take up appropriate defensive positions.

Marking helps a player take up a "position" near an opponent to help make that opponent a less attractive passing option.  Hopefully you can see how "Positioning" can help with that.

Whilst I like Positioning and Marking for any central defender, it can be more important when playing a deeper defensive line as your players become less likely to make challenges (assuming no associated TIs) and so picking up players off the ball increases in importance - you have to work the space better, rather than playing the man with the ball.

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The simplest way I can put it is:

Positioning is being in the right location in relation to your teammates and where the ball is.  Useful to cut out through balls, crosses etc

Marking is being able to track players around you and being able aware of there movement/runs.  Useful for tracking players.

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I have a 4-1-2-2-1 that works quite well. The question regards the expected effect of changing my CM-au and BBM-s combo to a BBM-S BBM-s

the anchor player is a DLP-D

 

cheers

 

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Just now, kristalshards said:

I have, but I need multiple explanations, that's why I always ask here. I try to understand things on my own before asking for help. :)

The manual is spot on here though. Not sure what else can be added?

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11 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

The FM manual, as much as it can be criticised, gives decent descriptions of attributes. Have you two looked there for clarification on what each attribute means?

You are right, I had to re-read the description to understand. Thanks. :)

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17 minutes ago, peterbolam78 said:

I have a 4-1-2-2-1 that works quite well. The question regards the expected effect of changing my CM-au and BBM-s combo to a BBM-S BBM-s

the anchor player is a DLP-D

 

cheers

 

Your topic was moved I think.  I just replied to it: 

 

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Just now, FootballManager89 said:

I notice the ai changed my player roles while i simulated a season. Is there any reason for this? Why does the ai change player roles? Could it be a bug?

How do you simulate a season? Go on holiday? You're leaving the Assistant in charge then, so he will change things if he feels the need.

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2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

How do you simulate a season? Go on holiday? You're leaving the Assistant in charge then, so he will change things if he feels the need.

I clicked use current match tactics though. Seems he kept the same formation but changed the roles. Is there no way to stop him from changing stuff while holidaying?

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Just now, FootballManager89 said:

I clicked use current match tactics though. Seems he kept the same formation but changed the roles. Is there no way to stop him from changing stuff while holidaying?

Yeah, he'll start with your tactics, but again - you are leaving him in charge - so he will change if needed.

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1 minute ago, HUNT3R said:

Yeah, he'll start with your tactics, but again - you are leaving him in charge - so he will change if needed.

So the only way to know for sure that my tactic is unaltered is if I play the game myself? What if i use instant result and the do not use match plan option.

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5 hours ago, herne79 said:

For me, Positioning and Marking go hand in glove (for a central defender at least).

Positioning is all about how well a player moves when defending in order to take up appropriate defensive positions.

Marking helps a player take up a "position" near an opponent to help make that opponent a less attractive passing option.  Hopefully you can see how "Positioning" can help with that.

Whilst I like Positioning and Marking for any central defender, it can be more important when playing a deeper defensive line as your players become less likely to make challenges (assuming no associated TIs) and so picking up players off the ball increases in importance - you have to work the space better, rather than playing the man with the ball.

 

2 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

The simplest way I can put it is:

Positioning is being in the right location in relation to your teammates and where the ball is.  Useful to cut out through balls, crosses etc

Marking is being able to track players around you and being able aware of there movement/runs.  Useful for tracking players.

Thank you guys, that really helps.  One follow question is do these two attributes have any use with regard to closing down?  Obviously this needs work rate, teamwork, stamina, acceleration but does having good positioning and maybe marking improve the effectiveness of closing down ie by cutting out passing options for the player being closed down?

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On 8/18/2016 at 13:55, Ceching You Out said:

Long time tinkerer with tactics, but I've found a rather simple question I've been unable to decisively answer -- does playing narrower/wider affect defensive positioning, offensive positioning, or both? It will obviously have an impact on the transition phases, but what's the primary effect?

Any definitive answer to this?

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Just now, Ceching You Out said:

Any definitive answer to this?

It's an instruction that affects the team IN possession, as well as indirectly, the transitions.

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32 minutes ago, jonboym said:

 

Thank you guys, that really helps.  One follow question is do these two attributes have any use with regard to closing down?  Obviously this needs work rate, teamwork, stamina, acceleration but does having good positioning and maybe marking improve the effectiveness of closing down ie by cutting out passing options for the player being closed down?

Positioning and marking both contribute to closing down. Marking would determine how close the on-ball defender will be when he starts closing down; positioning would also contribute to that, plus determining how effectively he shuts down passing lanes as he closes in. Both are important for your off-ball defenders as well -- like you mention, cutting down passing options/lanes.

Edited by Ceching You Out

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5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It's an instruction that affects the team IN possession, as well as indirectly, the transitions.

Much obliged!

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Okay, this has been around at a few threads, the team shape issue. I know we are motivated to keep things as simple as possible and look into tem shape for less / more creative freadom and less / more space. Now, I'm using a Standard mentality with a Close Down More TI, I have an AP that has his close to down at maximum (sometimes), then if I change the team shape to Highly Structured, the AP close down instruction changes to close down more. And his close down instruction only changes to close down more if the team shape is highly structured, it doesn't change with the other options

1- Why, with a standard mentality and with any team shape except for HS, is an AP only allowed to close down sometimes (as in equal to the team, so is closing down more) ?

2- Why does team shape interacts with close down ? (I'm sure I've read in other threads Team Shape influences creative freedom and vertical space)

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1 hour ago, jonboym said:

 

Thank you guys, that really helps.  One follow question is do these two attributes have any use with regard to closing down?  Obviously this needs work rate, teamwork, stamina, acceleration but does having good positioning and maybe marking improve the effectiveness of closing down ie by cutting out passing options for the player being closed down?

I would say they do indirectly.  The better positioned and closer marked the players without the ball are, the less options the player with the ball will have when closed down.  He might launch it long to clear it safely or try a "hospital pass" to someone who is marked or someone positioned to intercept. 

How well a player closes down I think is mainly down to Work Rate and Aggression.  To a lesser extent Acceleration, Agility, Decisions and Determination will help.  Stamina and Concentration will help keep it up all game.  Strength, Bravery and Tackling obviously help to win the ball if they don't get rid of it.  I think Team Work might help cover for teammates but not directly influence that players pressing.  It's pretty much the attributes a BWM-D requires.

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Besides the playmaker/target man box being ticked, is the difference between roles purely based on their PI's?

 

For example, the box to box midfielder(s) role has only one hard coded PI - roam from position, CM(s) has no hard coded PI's. So theoretically should a B2B(s) play exactly the same as a CM(s) with roam from position PI added? Is it right to rule out FMs description of the roles and the fact they are positioned differently on the TC screen in these cases?

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