FMM now stuck behind a Netflix subscription!?

[craiigman]

This might be a new low for FM in all honesty. Last year FM Touch was stuck behind the Apple Arcade subscription (seen no mention of what's happening with that), but now mobile is stuck behind a Netflix subscription.. Do you know your own player base? FMM is always one of the top paid games every single year, so clearly makes you money. WHY?

[zakbrown96]

6 minutes ago, craiigman said:

This might be a new low for FM in all honesty. Last year FM Touch was stuck behind the Apple Arcade subscription (seen no mention of what's happening with that), but now mobile is stuck behind a Netflix subscription.. Do you know your own player base? FMM is always one of the top paid games every single year, so clearly makes you money. WHY?

Will be an FAQ coming soon, please wait for that! 

[superposh]

If we've understood it correctly it does seem like a strange decision. So the game is basically 'free' if you have a Netflix subscription but you can't purchase the game from the Google play store? 

I have a Netflix account, I have done for years, but I would be tempted to boycott the game purely on principle. 

[craiigman]

1 minute ago, zakbrown96 said:

Will be an FAQ coming soon, please wait for that! 

Perhaps this should have been ready BEFORE saying it's only available behind a netflix subscription?

Edited September 12, 2023 by craiigman

[craiigman]

What is a FAQ going to do to change this?

Quote

If you’re an existing player with a Netflix membership, you'll be able to find and install FM24 Mobile through the Netflix mobile app when the game launches in November. It will appear in a dedicated Games row on Apple phones and a separate Games tab on Android devices*.

Players can still find FM24 Mobile on the App Store and Google Play, but you’ll need a Netflix account to log in and begin your next journey to footballing greatness.

If you’re not logged in to Netflix on your device, you will receive a sign-in prompt upon reaching the game’s loading screen. At this point, you’ll either need to enter your Netflix account details or sign up for a new membership.

Nothing. It's stuck behind a subscription paywall that doesn't need to be there.

[zakbrown96]

1 minute ago, craiigman said:

What is a FAQ going to do to change this?

Nothing. It's stuck behind a subscription paywall that doesn't need to be there.

I know as much as you on this, But let’s wait for the FAQ they’ll have a valid reason I’m sure! 

[Four_Eyed_Matt]

Absolute lunacy, I have purchased every iteration of the handheld/mobile version and now am unable to play it, I guess SI truly do hate their fans, I can only hope that it is exclusive for a month and then released wider.

[SaintPaul]

It's as if they try to annoy us. 

[craiigman]

Just now, zakbrown96 said:

I know as much as you on this, But let’s wait for the FAQ they’ll have a valid reason I’m sure! 

The cheapest Netflix sub is £4.99 per month (I dont even know if that includes their gaming side). FMM mobile is usually priced £9.99. In 2 months you've paid the same and if want to keep playing have to keep paying. No FAQ is going to make it better.

[SaintPaul]

3 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

I know as much as you on this, But let’s wait for the FAQ they’ll have a valid reason I’m sure! 

The reason is thet they want money from Netflix, no reason to pretend otherwise 

[Leedsutd87]

Bad bad move, will lose alot of customers if this is the case. Should also leave things as they are. If its not broken, don't fix it

[Hildor]

If its going to be a Netflix exclusive its a bad decision, forcing people to pay a subscription will lead to less people actually paying for it and leading to more piracy ( considering a lot already pirate the game) 

Still I rather wait for someone from SI to clarify this before passing judgment 😅

[SaintPaul]

1 minute ago, Hildor said:

If its going to be a Netflix exclusive its a bad decision, forcing people to pay a subscription will lead to less people actually paying for it and leading to more piracy ( considering a lot already pirate the game) 

Still I rather wait for someone from SI to clarify this before passing judgment 😅

It has been clarified, on the Football Manager website 

[CJ_Randell]

42 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

I know as much as you on this, But let’s wait for the FAQ they’ll have a valid reason I’m sure! 

The reason will be money.

It's a disgrace, and during a cost of living crisis where people may not be able to afford the full game and will be cutting back on subscriptions. 

[zakbrown96]

Regarding Why Netflix 

 

 

https://x.com/milessi/status/1701611771604484203?s=46

[Four_Eyed_Matt]

8 minutes ago, zakbrown96 said:

Regarding Why Netflix 

 

 

https://x.com/milessi/status/1701611771604484203?s=46

 

The coming weeks... they really don't care do they.

[CJ_Randell]

Just now, Four_Eyed_Matt said:

The coming weeks... they really don't care do they.

Miles has confirmed you need a subscription. Disgusting. 

[Hildor]

2 minutos atrás, CJ_Randell disse:

Miles has confirmed you need a subscription. Disgusting. 

The thing about FMM is it wasn't 60 euros game like the full version plus the portability and faster approach. If I'm going to pay 60 I rather get the full version which I don't have time to play sadly. I won't use any other Netflix content, it's looking like for the first time since FMH I won't be buying FMM 😢

[Daniel.M]

Dear Marc V., Miles and the SI team,

If FMM24 will require a Netflix subscription, then regretfully I won’t be buying this years game :-(

Why? As if you don’t have a Netflix account (like me) + have no intention of getting a Netflix account (I don’t watch TV / films, as I spend my limited free time on FMM) - then that requirement is quite … er … prohibitive … to getting this year’s new game. 

So what? For FMM22+23, I created content (team guides, tactical analysis, etc) + help new players on the Vibe website + the FMM discord. Of course am buying the editor as well. Seems I and perhaps some others won’t be able to do that this year. 

Why not buy the full version? Like many CM/FM veterans, I moved onto mobile as don’t have time for the full version (kids, wife, work). 

Like many others - I eagerly await any news / clarifications on this, and will continue to buy FMM if it’s available as before on the Apple store (without a subscription like Netflix). I’ll keep an eye on this just in case this has been a giant misunderstanding.

Thanks for you hard work on FMM over the years, and I hope this is a ‘see you later’ rather than a ‘bye-bye’.

DanEnglish

Edited September 12, 2023 by Daniel.M

[superposh]

20 minutes ago, CJ_Randell said:

Miles has confirmed you need a subscription. Disgusting. 

He is so out of touch with the fans of this game, it's shocking. Netflix has been around for years (2007/2008 ish I think), if someone doesn't have a Netflix account in 2023 there is a reason for that.... they don't want one. So no, it's not "odd to just look at it that way", if anything is odd it's the decision SI have made to shove Netflix down our throats. 

As mentioned on another thread, I HAVE a Netflix account, but I will not be playing FM24 Mobile out of principle and I may just sack off my Netflix subscription. 

SI you've had a shocker here. Absolutely embarrassing. 

I'll just make do with CM 01/02. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by superposh

[PAFC_Dugout]

1 hour ago, superposh said:

If we've understood it correctly it does seem like a strange decision. So the game is basically 'free' if you have a Netflix subscription but you can't purchase the game from the Google play store? 

I have a Netflix account, I have done for years, but I would be tempted to boycott the game purely on principle. 

I’m with you on that. I’ve had a Netflix account for years, but for others that don’t they’ve basically increased the price from £10ish to £60+. Absolutely disgusting. With this and the withdrawal of touch on iPad with Apple Arcade, I may finally be done with FM. Greed has corrupted SI it seems to me. Shame.

Edited September 12, 2023 by PAFC_Dugout

[CraigW92]

6 minutes ago, PAFC_Dugout said:

I’m with you on that. I’ve had a Netflix account for years, but for others that don’t they’ve basically increased the price from £8ish to £120+. Absolutely disgusting. With this and the withdrawal of touch on iPad with Apple Arcade, I may finally be done with FM. Greed has corrupted SI it seems to me. Shame.

Not sure the withdrawal of FMT on Apple Arcade is true, announcement on other platforms will be following soon

[CraigW92]

All in all, good news for those with Netflix, bad news for those without. Personally this is no surprise, the days of ‘buying’ a game and playing it appear to be dwindling. Constant income is clearly the winner here and Netflix will have paid a tonne to get exclusivity of this, seeing as it is always in the top 3 in the paid game chart (on Apple devices and in the UK).

I don’t have a Netflix account and won’t be getting one for FM, the game alone is not worth it

[shimera]

Terrible decision, that. Do you really want to finish off Mobile that much?

[PAFC_Dugout]

14 minutes ago, CraigW92 said:

Not sure the withdrawal of FMT on Apple Arcade is true, announcement on other platforms will be following soon

Not holding out any hope. It’ll probably be a paramount/Disney+ subscription the way they’re going 😂

[ElliottMS]

Adding my voice here to those deriding this decision.

I DO have a netflix account so I suppose I gain from this. But I still think its very wrong. Suppose you're hedging your bets the numbers add up doing it this way.

[TopToffee]

1 hour ago, craiigman said:

This might be a new low for FM in all honesty. Last year FM Touch was stuck behind the Apple Arcade subscription (seen no mention of what's happening with that), but now mobile is stuck behind a Netflix subscription.. Do you know your own player base? FMM is always one of the top paid games every single year, so clearly makes you money. WHY?

FMT was “stuck” behind an Apple Arcade subscription because it was financially unviable without the Apple deal.

The options weren’t “behind Apple subscription or not behind Apple subscription”, they were “behind Apple subscription or no FMT”

 

No idea whether the same is true of FMM

Edited September 12, 2023 by TopToffee

[Hildor]

10 minutos atrás, ElliottMS disse:

Adding my voice here to those deriding this decision.

I DO have a netflix account so I suppose I gain from this. But I still think its very wrong. Suppose you're hedging your bets the numbers add up doing it this way.

Won't the numbers go the other way? I mean so far I haven't seen any positives about it, even from people who have Netflix. Pirate sites are filled with Netflix exclusive games, how will it be different for FMM? 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Hildor

[ElliottMS]

9 minutes ago, Hildor said:

Won't the numbers go the other way? I mean so far I haven't seen any positives about it, even from people who have Netflix. Pirate sites are filled with Netflix exclusive games, how will it be different for FMM? 

No idea how it stacks in practice but I assume that decisions around this will always be based on the finances. Doesn't mean they've figured it correctly.

[Daniel.M]

35 minutes ago, TopToffee said:

FMT was “stuck” behind an Apple Arcade subscription because it was financially unviable without the Apple deal.

The options weren’t “behind Apple subscription or not behind Apple subscription”, they were “behind Apple subscription or no FMT”

No idea whether the same is true of FMM

Good point. If the choice is between FMM with Netflix, or no FMM, then their decision is fully understandable.

There may be other rationale which is also fully understandable (guaranteed income with Netflix vs more variable income previously? Piracy?) …

… but doesn’t change that I won’t be buying the upcoming game - unless Netflix do ‘free’ / no-cost accounts?

Lets see.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Daniel.M

[Jon58]

1 hour ago, Daniel.M said:

Dear Marc V., Miles and the SI team,

If FMM24 will require a Netflix subscription, then regretfully I won’t be buying this years game :-(

Why? As if you don’t have a Netflix account (like me) + have no intention of getting a Netflix account (I don’t watch TV / films, as I spend my limited free time on FMM) - then that requirement is quite … er … prohibitive … to getting this year’s new game. 

So what? For FMM22+23, I created content (team guides, tactical analysis, etc) + help new players on the Vibe website + the FMM discord. Of course am buying the editor as well. Seems I and perhaps some others won’t be able to do that this year. 

Why not buy the full version? Like many CM/FM veterans, I moved onto mobile as don’t have time for the full version (kids, wife, work). 

Like many others - I eagerly await any news / clarifications on this, and will continue to buy FMM if it’s available as before on the Apple store (without a subscription like Netflix). I’ll keep an eye on this just in case this has been a giant misunderstanding.

Thanks for you hard work on FMM over the years, and I hope this is a ‘see you later’ rather than a ‘bye-bye’.

DanEnglish

Dan💪

[TopToffee]

Just now, Daniel.M said:

If the choice is between FMM with Netflix, or no FMM, then their decision is fully understandable.

There may be other rationale which is also fully understandable (guaranteed income with Netflix vs more variable income previously? Piracy?) …

… but doesn’t change that I won’t be buying the upcoming game - unless Netflix do ‘free’ / no-cost accounts?

Lets see.

Piracy of FMM would be pretty negligible on iOS. Not sure whether the same can be said on Android. I know historically there was a lot more, but I’m unsure of current situation.

[Hildor]

5 minutos atrás, TopToffee disse:

Piracy of FMM would be pretty negligible on iOS. Not sure whether the same can be said on Android. I know historically there was a lot more, but I’m unsure of current situation.

Judging by the people who come ask for help with pirate version on the discord server (we don't support piracy there) it's still a lot but imo moving to Netflix exclusive won't help, so easy and fast to find android version of Netflix exclusive games 😢

[CraigW92]

51 minutes ago, PAFC_Dugout said:

Not holding out any hope. It’ll probably be a paramount/Disney+ subscription the way they’re going 😂

😂😂

[Declan Barry]

I could comment and moan on this specific decision but what’s the point. FM Mobile has not occupied the minds of the higher ups for a long time now, starting with the rebrand to Mobile despite running on tablets. They said the vision would become clear but 10+ years later this hasn’t happened as the series has stagnated in both feature set and connection to the community.

 

I feel sorry for Marc Vaughan and the rest of the team delivering FM Mobile every year to a high standard. I applaud them for getting the experience to be so popular that it’s one of the biggest apps in the world with little support from the company.
 

It’s clear to me after so many years of playing the game and running/launching several FM Mobile fan sites and communities, that have reached hundreds of thousands of fans, that the series is seen as an after thought that is only there to maximise profit and margin. This Netflix decision underlines it as apparently the series was available to be bought by the highest bidder without considering the devout players who don’t want a Netflix subscription. 

The fact that Miles hasn’t already prepared a statement around this and they’re not rushing to do so just underlines the lack of care for the series.

I would say that I hope that the feature set is going to blow us out of the park as this new found wealth has been reinvested into the team, but I highly doubt it with Unity around the corner for every series apart from Mobile (surprise, surprise).

Edited September 12, 2023 by Declan Barry

[MatiasDFS]

I love this game and i have a lot of respect for how the team had worked on it since i started playing years ago despite the differences with the community. That said, im struggling really hard to understand this decision, i dont know how it can be seen as anything but pure greedy or a part of a bigger deal that doesnt care about the game at all, at least from the user perspective. Im already suscribed to Netflix and that means i wont have to pay for the game at all, but that doesnt even matter cause content creators i read, people i like to share my careers/tactics/challenges i play with and even people i run and moderate the ds server with already said they won't pay a monthly suscription that adds to more than x5 the value the game used to have to play it. Its really frustrating and i dont need to wait for the launch or a faq or whatever, it is already clear this will be a HUGE step backwards.

[Shanamaj]

I’m also disappointed and saddened by this move of disrespect for us true FMM fans who bought pretty much every edition. I have very little spare time and I chose to spend a fair portion on FMM, I simply have no time to spare for any Netflix content. So for me it’s a price hike at least 500%. If I temporarily have a little time for Netflix I would only subscribe for a month or two, during which I wouldn’t even bother with FMM since I would lose all access to my saves afterwards.

I’ve been longing for FMM24 for months and reported tons of bugs and ideas to try help improve the game but now I regret bothering  with FMM23 at all as it looks like it’ll be the last edition ever for me.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Shanamaj

[MyNameIsJohn]

I thought someone had got mixed up when I saw this news.  Seems not.  Astonishing.

[Sam_BFC]

4 hours ago, CJ_Randell said:

Miles has confirmed you need a subscription. Disgusting. 

Tone deaf and out of touch or, to adopt the vogue vernacular of the day, disingenuous, textbook gaslighting.

Poor in any case.

[Hildor]

No sure what to think. At this point they should just come out and tell the community something before more damage is done 😢

[Declan Barry]

7 minutes ago, Hildor said:

No sure what to think. At this point they should just come out and tell the community something before more damage is done 😢

They knew people would be disappointed but are proceeding to allow them to be upset for days until the blog that’s meant to make everything better is released. They’ve had months to prepare for this, surely that’s just a lack of care or they’re not actually bothered about it and want the problem to solve itself.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Declan Barry

[CraigW92]

1 hour ago, Sam_BFC said:

Tone deaf and out of touch or, to adopt the vogue vernacular of the day, disingenuous, textbook gaslighting.

Poor in any case.

This is very patronising. It’s not odd to look at it that way if I DONT want a Netflix subscription but do want FMM. What he is essentially saying is the game has gone from being 8 quid of whatever it was to £5 a month but you get loads of Netflix shows too. Not everyone sees that as a benefit for all the reasons stated in this thread and others

[Adelrahn]

Absolutly ridicolous and unfair decision to everyone who supported and bought this game for all those years. No explanation in the world can justify that. I dont even want to hear the reasons or read a FAQ because it seems the decision is irreversible but it would be interesting how they explain to us why he should pay 60$ per year for a mobile game.

Im honestly regreting every word that i wrote in the past in order to give feedback or help others because i cant afford to pay for this so they clearly dont want me as a customer. Let down once again ...

@MarkVaughan what have you got say to this?

Edited September 12, 2023 by Adelrahn

[CaptainSa]

1 hour ago, Adelrahn said:

No explanation in the world can justify that.

"It was this or making FMM wouldn't happen as it would not be financially viable".

1 hour ago, Adelrahn said:

I dont even want to hear the reasons or read a FAQ because it seems the decision is irreversible but it would be interesting how they explain to us why he should pay 60$ per year for a mobile game.

$60 is relatively cheap for the most popular mobile games given how almost all of them are geared towards microtransactions.

[beccauva]

Everyone here is thinking you, SI, have not spoken clear with fans for quite a long time. This is far worse than a disagreed/wrong commercial decision.

I started with CM 01/02 as a young player. Now I have a family and a Netflix account but I won't let you make a fool of the young players of today, that cannot afford the costs. This is extremely unfair. I won't download the game.

[StephenCronin]

I have a Netflix account but this is total bull.... 

This move will likely destroy the core community that has built up around this game over the years. A lot of the people that help others, write guides, run fan spaces (like Vibe and Discord) will disappear. 

I guess that SI Games are betting that by throwing their core community under the bus and tying the game to Netflix, it will open up the doors to a larger casual community that might not otherwise play the game. Will that work? Maybe, but they are sacrificing their most passionate supporter base in the chase for greater profitability. The newer more casual community they're chasing won't be as dedicated and maybe they will play the game one year and maybe they will play something else and won't bother the following year. 

Actually, stepping back a little... Many tech companies are doing something similar. Reddit earlier this year for example. Even the company I work for has done something similar. They are all trying to improve profitability and get it into what is considered a 'healthy' zone for investment or an exit (ie selling the company). They know it's going to harm the original users, but that's just a necessary growing pain to move their company to the next level and position their company for investment. Don't be surprised if SI Games gets investment or sells in the next year or two. The sooner we realise that SI Games is just 'a company', 'doing business', and not our friend, making the game for us, the sooner we'll understand stuff like this.

Anyway, whatever the reason, the end result is the same for those of us that play the game all year round and hang out on forums and discord discussing the game non-stop - we're under the bus... It's a sad sad day

[StephenCronin]

Quote

we are aware that some will be disappointed with the decision, but sometimes difficult decisions have to be made by businesses.

Translation: FMM was not profitable enough* for us to continue its development in the current manner. Therefore our only alternative was to shift to a new business model that would allow us to continue its development. We know this will upset you, but if we couldn't find a way to make it more profitable, we could not have continued to invest in it. This move will allow us to continue it's development and keep giving you (or whoever the new users are after you've left) this great game. <optional statement about the new business model allowing us to add exciting new features for you!>

*it's important to note that for a tech company in 2023, a product being profitable might not be enough to justify it's continuation. It has to be profitable enough. If you spend 10M on a product and have a profit of only 1M, then you need to consider how much more you could have earned if you spent that 10M elsewhere. And if a product is only making a small profit, you're better off retiring that product and spending the money on another product that will give you greater profits. And on top of that, if you want to attract investors, then you have to get the company profits into a certain ratio and can't be carrying any products with smaller profits. 

I'm guessing that although FMM sells a lot, it also has a lot of costs and just isn't profitable enough from a business perspective

Of course, I could be totally off on all of this.

[lcutini]

Absolutely disgraceful. Everyone at SI should hang their head in shame today 

[henda666]

I'd suggest stopping development of the mobile version, but release a database editing tool to allow loyal players to update the database themselves

[Remicchi]

We can get into my disdain for exclusivity deals another time, that's my gripe with Netflix and others who offer exclusivity deals

As for companies who sign those exclusivity deals, I definitely had a sinking feeling that this was a really corporate decision when it was first announced. I didn't say much till we knew more, but this pretty much confirms it

"If you wanted JUST a meal, then it would be $X a year. Which is a lot of money. But given it comes with a whole ton of cakes sent to you, it's odd to look at it this way". Except I just wanted a meal. Yet there's a little coercion to be committed into something way bigger without the option of just having that meal, and once I'm in that eco-system a lot of psychological inertia to pull out.

But I don't need to hear Netflix's side from SI, I'd like to hear SI's side from SI. I'm keen to see what will be in the blog you mentioned a couple of times, I hope it mentions how specifically FMM would be better when now bundled with Netflix, what the consumers (especially those who don't want/need a Netflix subscription) stand to benefit in exchange for losing FMM as a standalone product or perhaps there's already a giant leap forward in many aspects of FMM24 that will capture Netflix's existing target audience rather than nerds who like resource management + watching dots move on a screen.

Edited September 13, 2023 by Remicchi